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Re: File /Audio/PLBB_Panel_and_AAs_Future_2024.05.06 [TRM1].m4a uploaded #file-notice

 

Thom,?
I appreciate you posting this, but all the folks that shared all shared the same viewpoint. Most of their sobriety dates were closer to the date of the publication of the Big Book that today. One even said that being an agnostic in AA was a problem. I am an agnostic in AA and folks from Jimmy Burwell to me would take issue with that opinion.? It made me sad to listen to the one-sided discussion.?

From a responsibility to history standpoint, we should simply be willing to live with the truth of whatever decision(s) are made. A Plain Language Big Book has no impact on what has happened to date. If we do not change as a society and endeavor to open the doors of AA to all those who live today and not in 1939, then my fear is that AA will die along with some of the old-timers on this panel.?

Thanks,?
Rodney?


Re: File /Audio/PLBB_Panel_and_AAs_Future_2024.05.06 [TRM1].m4a uploaded #file-notice

 


Hi,?
Can I share this audio on my youtube Channel, I can delete the last names.

Is the PLBB ("Plain Language Big Book") is going to be published soon ?

Thanks,
Mike M

[Moderator edit: NO. This needs to stay in the fellowship. Please DO NOT share at the public level. -Thom]


File /Audio/PLBB_Panel_and_AAs_Future_2024.05.06 [TRM1].m4a uploaded #file-notice

Group Notification
 
Edited

?

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

By: Thom R. <thomr021092@...>

Description:
I know this isn't exactly what we usually cover, but I doubt, since it has been approved, that anyone would think for a moment that the PLBB ("Plain Language Big Book") being approved would not be an historic event (pro or con) and something that is definitely making history (good or bad).

I thought I might share this recording.

Yesterday, Area 35 (Northern Minnesota) had a panel on the TWO topics of "PLBB" and "AA's Future". I am posting this here and NOT on the Facebook group because I believe that we might be able to have an honest discussion about not only how this may impact AA going forward, but (and here is why I think this qualifies for AAHL so I will put it in ALL CAPS): WHAT MIGHT A PLBB DO TO OUR UNDERSTANDING OF AA HISTORY? MIGHT IT CHANGE HOW WE LOOK AT OUR OWN PAST? MIGHT IT CHANGE THE STATUS OF THE BIG BOOK BEING THE "CORE" OF THE AA PROGRAM?

Any other questions relating to this impact on how we present, study and share AA history is what I am hoping for here. In short, I think that this academic/classic part of AAHL can have a decent conversation about this and keep it all on point.

Of course, the usual moderation rules apply. Contact me if you think I have crossed an AAHL line here. I just might have and maybe I'll take this down later if I did.

But I don't think we can ignore it. This is big. Real big. Traditions, Concepts, Warranties, all in play here. I am especially interested in WHAT PARTS OF AA HISTORY MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED (meaning, previous GSC Advisory Actions, etc.) THAT MAY HAVE PREVENTED THIS BOOK FROM BEING MADE IF THE GSB WOULD HAVE TAKEN HEED--OR EVEN MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR IT TO BE PRODUCED WELL BEFORE NOW? As researchers, authors, historians, archivists, history lovers and more, I think we owe it to the fellowship to be ready for this when it hits and have some sort of idea or understanding of its ramifications pertaining to our own history as we know it. Ok, let's see how this goes.

I only ask that people who share on this, please listen to the recording first. It definitely heats up after the usual past delegate trying to get in before everyone else (which does happen here too haha). Okay, that's all I've got for now.

Best,

Thom R
Moderator, AA HISTORY LOVERS

?

?


VIDEO LINK: The Creation of Alcoholics Anonymous - True Historical Retelling | Witness To A Miracle (Documentary)

 

The Creation of Alcoholics Anonymous - True Historical Retelling | Witness To A Miracle (Documentary)

(c)2024 Pembroke Productions?- Posted to AAHL with permission and after a direct request from the creator.?

The original link to the video can be found here and you are welcome to share this link with anyone who may be interested in this video:?

In this Documentary interview, Mary Seiberling Huhn, daughter of Henrietta Seiberling, recalls in vivid detail the life events that lead her mother to introduce Bill Wilson to Dr. Bob Smith in the Stan Hywet¡¯s Gate Lodge on May 12, 1935. As a result of this introduction and their meeting, Bill W. and Dr. Bob formed a lasting relationship and founded Alcoholics Anonymous.

[Moderator comment: This is really something special. If you want to know more about Henrietta and Akron AA history, don't miss this! -Thom]


Article: "What the Alcoholic Owes To Marty Mann"

 

Presented without comment.

Published originally in the January 1963 issue of "Readers Digest".



Out of Her Suffering Has Been Born a Network of Hope and Help for Thousands.

by Floyd Miller

In January 1963, Reader's Digest published a story by Floyd Miller titled "What the Alcoholic Owes to Marty Mann. Out of her suffering has been born a network of hope and help for thousands. The article is available at Silkwood.net, a website that provides historical writings, documents, letters, events, people, places and references through-out the history of Alcoholics Anonymous.?

An ashen-faced man in search of help made his way into a quiet office on New York's upper Fifth Avenue. He was an alcoholic, and he poured out his despairing story to a handsome woman in her 50's who sat behind a large desk. After a few moments he paused, spread his hands helplessly and said, "its difficult to make you understand how I feel."

"Oh, but I know exactly how you feel, " she said. "I, too, am an alcoholic. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't gone through the valley of the shadow."

The woman was Mrs. Marty Mann, executive director of the National Council on Alcoholism, a voluntary health organization she founded 18 years ago. A remorseless crusader against ignorance and prejudice concerning alcoholism, she has been largely responsible for the fact that the nation's attitude toward the "drunkard" is changing, that alcoholism is now recognized as a disease and that thousands of our five million alcoholics are today being successfully treated. (Only one drinker out of 15 or 16 develops alcoholism. Like an iceberg, the symptoms are below the surface at first; but the disease progresses relentlessly until the victim, once he takes a drink, stops only when he is too drunk to continue. It usually takes 10 to 15 years of drinking for a potential alcoholic to acquire the disease full-blown. If un-checked, it can end only in insanity or death.)

On the lecture platform Marty Mann is electric. Her handsomeness is deepened by marks of suffering, and she summons up a power of purpose that transfixes her audience. Her husky voice speaks of reasoned facts, but with a spirituality that drives them hard into the hearts as well as the minds of those who hear.

Once in Jacksonville a man awoke in a hotel room after a week of drinking, turned on the radio and heard Marty Mann speaking from New Orleans. "No alcoholic wants to be the way he is," she was saying. "Alcoholics are not bums. They are sick, and they can recover from this disease just as from others."

The words penetrated the man's numbed brain, and for the first time he began to hope. He picked up the phone, called the radio station and asked to speak to the woman who had just broadcast. Marty not only talked with him; she put him in touch with someone in Jacksonville who could give him immediate help.

Marty Mann can supply almost immediate help from coast to coast through NCA's network of affiliates operating Alcoholism Information Centers in 74 cities. Without charge and without humiliation, the alcoholic or his family can telephone or come to these centers for consultation and referral. Depending on the individual's condition and need, he is sent to a doctor, a hospital, a clinic or to Alcoholics Anonymous.

Science now believes that two basic conditions must be present to make a person prey to alcoholism: an emotional vulnerability, and a body chemistry which makes him sensitive to the alcohol he consumes in an effort to ease his emotional stresses. Marty Mann's own case demonstrates these concepts with classic simplicity.

Born to a wealthy Chicago family, she went to the best private schools. As a debutante she entered a world that was all champagne and caviar. In her set it was gay and smart to go to New Orleans for the Mardi Gras. On the spur of the moment she married a young man she met there; she was 22. A year later tuberculosis, with which she had had a bout as a child, flared up, and she went to a Western ranch for both recovery and divorce.

Though she did not realize it until much later, her real descent into the hell of alcoholism began when she was 24, the year her father lost his fortune. Suddenly thrust against the buzz saw of life, she went to New York to look for a job. She moved into a small Greenwich Village flat with two other young women, and if there were days when they were without food, they were seldom without bootleg whiskey. For this was the Roaring Twenties.

Marty got a job reviewing books, and then became an editor of a glossy magazine. Her talent was apparent and her career well launched, but so was her social life. A writer who squired her to speakeasies and flamboyant parties of the era recalls with awe, " I can't remember dating a more beautiful and intelligent girl. And she could drink any man under the table. A hollow leg, that girl!"

A high alcohol tolerance - the ability to drink a lot without showing signs of drunkenness - is one of the early symptoms of alcoholism. Others soon followed for Marty. She became dependent on alcohol in order to enjoy a party; then dependent on it to cope with difficult events.

The death of her grandmother brought a small inheritance, and Marty quit her job and travelled to London. She was as sought after there as in New York, for she was bright, witty, the gayest of companions.

Now the first drink of the day was advanced to noontime and became increasingly important. Also, she began to drink surreptitiously at parties, belting down two while others were taking one. And she began to have memory blackouts. Then, in 1931, her tolerance for alcohol reversed. She began getting drunk on lesser and lesser amounts.

"What has happened to you?" her friends demanded. "Why can't you drink the way you used to?"

No one asked these questions more urgently than Marty. What frightened her most was the fact that, despite the most desperate exercise of will, she could not cut down her drinking.

One summer afternoon in 1934, at a weekend houseparty in the country, she had the blind staggers and had to be led upstairs to sleep it off. Her bedroom opened on a small balcony. Below was a paved courtyard. Marty was only vaguely aware of the events that followed. She never knew whether she fell or jumped. Even the moment of impact on the cruel stones was mercifully fogged by alcohol. She fractured her leg at the hip and broke both hinges of her jaw.

After having her leg in traction for six months, she recovered from the accident - but not from her drinking. Her inheritance gone, she got jobs and lost them. Now she huddled in a secluded corner of Hyde Park, sipping from a bottle. There one day a friend found her and begged her to do something about herself. "Maybe you should go back to New York, " she suggested.

This struck a response in Marty's dulled mind. Typical of the later stages of alcoholism is the desperate conviction that a geographical change will somehow work a cure. Marty borrowed money and sailed for New York. But the transfer only changed the location of her drinking.

In rare moments of clarity she was completely disgusted with herself, and concluded that she must be insane. She went to a series of psychiatrists, none of whom would accept her as a patient after she described her drinking. The only suggestion the doctors could make was that she commit herself to a mental institution. This compounded her fears, and she returned to alcohol for forgetfulness.

Some hard, brave corner of her mind refused to give up the search for help, however, and finally Dr. Harry Tiebout agreed to take her, free of charge, as a resident patient in Blythwood Sanitarium in Connecticut. Here, for a year, she had regular psychiatric sessions, but the doctors remained baffled.

One morning Dr. Tiebout brought a manuscript to her. "This was written by people like you," he said. "They seem to have found a way out of trouble. Perhaps it can help you. Let me know what you think of it."

She began to read slowly, skeptically. As she read on, her skepticism gradually began to lift, to be replaced by a mounting excitement. These people were drunks; they had suffered just as she had suffered, and they had survived!

She discovered that her ailment had a name - it was called "alcoholism." It seemed a blessed thing just to have a name pinned to her. As she read on the fog or fear and ignorance began to part, and she learned that alcoholism was a disease! They described it as "an allergy of the body coupled with an obsession of the mind." She learned that the "allergy" was irreversible and that the affected person could never put alcohol into his sensitized system. The "obsession" was that the alcoholic was driven to take a drink despite his knowledge that disaster waited.

What was the answer?

It came with stunning simplicity: she must discard attempts at moderate drinking; she must give up all drinking. But wasn't this beyond her power? The manuscript spoke of God's help. Through the recent hellish years, though, she had lost God. Now, suddenly, she knew for a certainty: He could help her.

As she pondered this, something happened that she cannot fully explain. She seemed to lose the upper-most level of consciousness, and when she regained it she found herself on her knees beside her bed, her pillow wet with tears. And through her body surged a feeling of serenity and soaring confidence such as she had never known.

She ran to Dr. Tiebout to tell him what had happened. "have I lost my mind? Am I insane?" she demanded.

Thoughtfully, he said, "Something very real has happened. Let us watch and learn together."

They did watch and learn. The road back to health was difficult, but Marty was never again to feel alone, to know despair. Old friends noted the difference in her appearance; there was a new radiance about her. She explained, "You let God in, and He comes out of you."

Within a year she had an excellent job, but she knew now that her life would have real meaning only if she served other sufferers. Alcoholics Anonymous was helping many, but it could assist only those who sought it out. Most alcoholics were hidden, closed in by their ignorance and fear and shame. Marty dreamed of a vast program of education that would remove the stigma from alcoholism and allow alcoholics and their families to seek help openly, without shame; a program that would marshal sufficient public interest and support to provide adequate diagnostic and treatment facilities.

One February night at 3 a.m., Marty got out of bed, went to her typewriter and outlined a plan of action, which was to become the National Council on Alcoholism. It was presented to a group of scientists who had founded the Yale Center of Alcohol Studies. They underwrote it financially. On October 2, 1944, the NCA opened a modest suite of offices in the New York Academy of Medicine at 2 East 103rd Street.

Marty now found support for her dream from many sources. Within five years the NCA was able to function without the subsidy from the Yale group, and took its place as a full-fledged voluntary health organization. The bulk of its money came, as it does today, from individuals gifts. The council now employs 45 persons in national headquarters, and its affiliates across the country employ 150 full- time counselors in the Alcoholism Information Centers.

Inquiries flood into the NCA, and since each represents a personal need, it receives a personal answer, many from Marty herself. Besides, Marty travels more than 50,000 miles each year, speaking at meetings of all kinds, appearing on TV and radio. Largely because of NCA's educational work, more than 80 large corporations have established procedures to handle their problem drinkers as sick persons; the AFL-CIO has installed programs in unionized industries and shops; some 3000 general hospitals now accept acute cases.

Most important, out of Marty Mann's suffering has been born a network of hope and help immediately available to any lost or frightened individual. In the areas served by the NCA's Information Centers, no man or woman need face his illness alone - he has only to lift the telephone.

---End of article---


Re: First Edition Stories - ¡°successes¡± and ¡°failures¡±. Bill Wilson¡¯s notes.

 

The "Key" written?by Bill was done 1953 in preparation for the 2nd Edition.?
Ernie Galbraith had a hard time and was in and out a lot. from this? it says

<<Sue said that Ernie continued drinking that time until about 1946, when ¡°the only reason he quit was the doctor thought he had a heart condition, and it scared him to death. I don¡¯t think he ever had a heart condition. I don¡¯t think he had a heart.¡±>>?

Unfortunately, in one of the saddest stories,? he didn't make it long term, the Stepping Stones online archives has a 1952 Christmas card to "Dear Sue and Ernie" so it seems when the "key" was written at a time when he was "in."



On Mon, Apr 29, 2024 at 8:48?PM Tom Kramer via <tskramer=[email protected]> wrote:
Thank you. Looking at the original pages where these are noted it would appear that (on the second page) Ernest Galbraith - Seventh Month Slip - is listed as a 2 (some trouble but recovery). Is that correct??


Re: First Edition Stories - ¡°successes¡± and ¡°failures¡±. Bill Wilson¡¯s notes.

 

Thank you. Looking at the original pages where these are noted it would appear that (on the second page) Ernest Galbraith - Seventh Month Slip - is listed as a 2 (some trouble but recovery). Is that correct??


Re: File /Documents - General/Gary Glenn Corporate Poverty - October 29, 1994 [AAHL].pdf uploaded #file-notice

 

I had the honor of interviewing Gary back in the 90s as editor of the area newsletter.
Would this forum be interested in my article?

[Moderator comment: Yes, please. Very much so! -Thom R. AAHL Moderator]


File /Documents - General/Gary Glenn Corporate Poverty - October 29, 1994 [AAHL].pdf uploaded #file-notice

Group Notification
 

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

By: Thom R. <thomr021092@...>

Description:
"Corporate Poverty" by Gary Glenn. October 29, 1994 -- I have been recently reminded of this gem. Reading is fundamental and I have a strong feeling that this is resurfacing... and that it has some teeth. Enjoy! -Thom R. AAHL Moderator


Re: Bill's Sibling(s)

 

Emily Ella Griffith Strobell's findagrave page lists no Strobell children, but has a nice photo of her.?

________________________________________________
Duane R-H

--
Duane R-H


Re: hindsfoot.org

 

I have a mirror of it and it's on my to do list to get as much of it back online as possible, as soon as possible.

Best,

Thom R.
AAHL Moderator


Re: Happy 24th Anniversary AAHL!

 

What became of Glenn Chesnut's fabulous website hindsfoot.org ? ?It was a goldmine if information and pictures, and a great loss, unless someone can tell me it still exists and how I can track it down and access it. ?Thanks for anything anyone can say about this.
Bill Priestley


Re: Bill's Sibling(s)

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

If you know where they lived you can try cencus reports to get info about birthdates for the children etc

On Apr 2, 2024, at 7:32 AM, duanerh <drh3198@...> wrote:

?
According to various genealogical databases Bill's mother married Dr. Charles William Strobell 1856-1936 in 1923 after divorcing Bill's father. She is said to have had two children by him: Emily and Rutland. The database has an impossible birthdate for Emily and none for Rutland, so there is a lack of clarity. Bill's mother died in 1961.

________________________________________________
Duane R-H

--
Duane R-H

--
Eugene Lane
Redondo Bch Ca


Re: Bill's Sibling(s)

 

Thank you Duane. I knew about the marriage to Dr. Strobell, but have scoured all the sources I have about Emily having any children with him, and can find nothing indicating she did. I will keep looking, and in the mean time, if anyone on here can point me in the right direstion it would be greatly appreciated!

-Mike

Mike Margetis
mfmargetis@...


Re: Bill's Sibling(s)

 

According to various genealogical databases Bill's mother married Dr. Charles William Strobell 1856-1936 in 1923 after divorcing Bill's father. She is said to have had two children by him: Emily and Rutland. The database has an impossible birthdate for Emily and none for Rutland, so there is a lack of clarity. Bill's mother died in 1961.

________________________________________________
Duane R-H

--
Duane R-H


Re: Happy 24th Anniversary AAHL!

 

Thank you for your service, Thom!!

Gratefully,
Vickie Maxwell
G.B. NOONTIMERS G.S.R./Area 1 - D13 past?D.C.M.?

Pic taken Pensacola Beach, FL
DISCLAIMER:?This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s).? If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email.



On Sat, Mar 16, 2024 at 4:52?PM Thom R. <thomr021092@...> wrote:

HAPPY 24TH ANNIVERSARY
AA HISTORY LOVERS

MARCH 16, 2000 - MARCH 16, 2024
'Happy 24th Anniversary to all history enthusiasts! March 16, 2000 - March 16, 2024.'
NONE of this would have been possible without the INCREDIBLE community that has come together over all of these years and have contributed so much to help the history of AA (and much more) be as updated and as accurate as possible. NONE of this would have been possible without all of you.
So, HAPPY ANNIVERSARY to US!
Also, in case anyone was wondering about the moderator history, here it is (so far):

-Nancy O. (Founder [2000]-2005)
-Arthur S. (2005-2005)?
-Glenn C. (2005-2018)?
-Thom R. (2018-present)

Thank you for letting me be of service.

Thom R.
AAHL Moderator

--In memory of Bob S.--


--
Blessings and "Gratitudingly",
Vickie M.
Area 1 District 13


Bill's Sibling(s)

 

Hi all,

As far as I know, Bill Wilson only had two sisters, Dorothy, and his half sister Helen. Is that correct? There is a line on the first page of Chapter 13 in "The Soul of Sponsorship" that is confusing: "On the topic: health. Bill wrote after the death of his sister that he was just backfrom the west coast and had brought his mother, who had suffered a stroke, home." I'm fairly certain that Dorothy and Helen both outlived Bill. Any help would be appreciated!

-Mike

Mike Margetis
mfmargetis@...


Re: Happy 24th Anniversary AAHL!

 

It is a pleasure to greet you lovers of the history of A.A.,
I have had the fortune of being with you for a long time, even when this virtual community was in YAHOO.GROUPS, I was there as friends.A.A.s, Congratulations on your anniversary and thanks to those who were here when I arrived, thanks to the who clarify my doubts, God, as I understand it, bless you and always accompany you. God bless his families.
A hug.


? ? ? ? ??
? ? ? ? ? ?Luis Tomas?
Grupo Empezando a Vivir?
? ? San Juan del Rio Qro.

Libre de virus.


Re: Bill Wilson and Karen Hornet New York early 1940¡¯s

 

Hi, Barry?
I don't have anything?about her being?his analyst but...

"Bill Wilson¡¯s name was linked to that of three of the NeoFreudians: Adler, Horney, and Jung. His mother, Dr. Emily Griffith Wilson, had studied with Adler in Vienna, and after taking up residence in San Diego, California, lectured on Adlerian psychiatry and maintained a practice as an Adlerian psychoanalyst. In a 1956 letter, Bill W. gave special praise to the writings of another famous Neo-Freudian, Karen Horney. It should further be noted that from 1945 to 1949, Bill was working continuously on his depression with a psychiatrist named Dr. Frances Weeks (Wickes) who was a Jungian, and that the psychiatrist Carl Jung was also usually regarded as one of the Neo-Freudians, even if of a different sort.81"

and

"He (Ollie)?sends Bill some material on Karen ±á´Ç°ù²Ô±ð²â¡¯²õ Neurosis and Human Growth)

From "Fr. Ed Dowling" Glenn S.

81 ).? On Karen Horney, see Bill W., letter to Ollie in California, January 4, 1956, as cited in Fitzgerald, The Soul of Sponsorship 41. (see screenshot below)?

image.png

jim


On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 6:02?AM Barry Murtaugh <murtaughjbarry1@...> wrote:

Some years ago I had a reference that Bill Wilson was linked with noted psychoanalyst Karen Horney.?
Karen had moved from Chicago to New York in 1934.
As I recall it , Karen was his analyst for a while.
It may have been in the old AA HistoryLovers group. Any clues about that ?in the community?

Best Regards,
Barry M.
Chicago, IL


Bill Wilson and Karen Hornet New York early 1940¡¯s

 

Some years ago I had a reference that Bill Wilson was linked with noted psychoanalyst Karen Horney.?
Karen had moved from Chicago to New York in 1934.
As I recall it , Karen was his analyst for a while.
It may have been in the old AA HistoryLovers group. Any clues about that ?in the community?

Best Regards,
Barry M.
Chicago, IL