I grew up in Southeast Cleveland near where Clarence began the first AA meeting on May 11, 1939, if you buy his claims. The address was 2345 Stillman Road in Cleveland Heights, Ohio. After he was kicked out of that meeting, he helped start another meeting at 2427 Roxboro Drive, which is just one mile from the previous meeting address. (My parents drove me very near these addresses when I was growing up).

If you go there today, you will find these two Cleveland Heights addresses to be on the southern border of that city next to Shaker Heights. The neighborhood is known as the Shaker Lakes. This area has been among the wealthiest suburbs of Cleveland for close to a century. The mansions of North Park and South Park Boulevards include former huge homes of the Halle family and the Van Sweringen brothers (who designed the area), among many wealthy industrial giants (One may forget that J. D. Rockefeller Sr. was a Clevelander and was buried nearby with an Egyptian sized obelisk in Lakeview Cemetery).?

This neighborhood contained alcoholics that were wealthier than most, male, married, Caucasian, middle aged (and up), and employed. The homogeneity of the suburban prospects back then are just one of many reasons that a comparison to sobriety rates today should be considered all but purposeless.

Of course, Cleveland was just one microcosm of AA. As AA expanded in the 1940's, so did the varieties of experiences. Chattanooga, Tennessee, for example, did not experience 50-25-25 as the Big Book asserts or anything like 93%. No, their experience was 20-20-60, according to Carl K, editor of The Empty Jug. When Bill W. visited Knoxville in 1944, he was visiting a city that had "went from 10 members to a lone number" according to Memphis archives. Because most of the 1940's remain an unexplored mystery to most, we collectively are vulnerable to assertions that aren't factual, and may even involve aspects of "salesmanship." How many AA's today can name a half dozen events that took place in AA during that decade who aren't AA history lovers? Thus, some of us may fall for "the good old days" that upon a closer examination weren't always that good, depending upon the local groups and their various struggles. Remember the story of the Richmond, VA group that decided drinking beer was OK during their meeting? Where do they fit in the 50-25-25?

Thus, in all honesty, what were the actual national sobriety rates in the 1940's? I don't know, and I don't know anybody that does or did, nor how that result could be reliably determined. The documentation probably doesn't exist. Even if such a study was attempted, when drunks slipped back then (who had "really tried"), what percentage informed their home group secretary? Then how many of those secretaries considered it his/her responsibility, as Carl K. of Chattanooga did in March of 1945, to take attendance and report collective slips & lengths of sobriety? He had 8 months and was second in sober seniority. He reported that the two Chattanooga co-founders were in sanitariums.

In any case, because of the various isolated "pockets of enthusiasm" that emerged across the nation, whatever the recovery rates actually were, there's seems to be no? question our program was God given. For that we should be very grateful. Otherwise, there's no way a bunch of collective goofs, isolated from each other, with no Traditions or long-time sobriety, often with almost no perception of what was happening elsewhere, could have formed Alcoholics Anonymous in so many communities, regardless of the leadership from New York and Akron/Cleveland.

Gary Neidhardt

Lilburn, GA

On Wednesday, May 27, 2020, 10:26:27 AM EDT, Jim <jimincancun@...> wrote:

Good morning, Bob.

Thanks for your continuing research and information. They are appreciated. A couple of comments:

1.- Where is the attached quote by Clarence from? How It Worked?

2.- On page 161 of DBATGO it mentions the 93% success?rate of the Cleveland?group.?

Following is a quote from Arthur S. in his writing on AA Recovery rates:?

"The Cleveland area groups essentially “cherry picked” prospects who had already previously achieved recovery and demonstrated the ability to stay sober. They effectively went through a probationary or introductory period before being allowed to attend Cleveland meetings.

Under the circumstances, portraying the Cleveland practices as achieving a “93%” success rate is tantamount to claiming a 93% success rate among prescreened prospects that were already demonstrated to be 100% successful for up to 3 months before they attended their first meeting.

Without an indication of the number of prescreened “unsuccessful” alcoholics who were not allowed to attend Cleveland meetings, the reputed “93%” success rate is so dominantly biased to a demonstrated favorable subset of the prospect population as to be a dubious claim at best."

Your thoughts?

Thanks again?for your service and dedication to AA History

jim?

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:24 AM Bob S <rstonebraker212@...> wrote:

Dear AA History-minded friends,

As you may surmise from the attachment, Clarence Snyder had his own ideas about the AA Twelve Steps!? He had the following to say about the huge gap between NY and Akron during the 1940s. Clarence believed the difference between New York and Mid-West A.A. was the approach to sobriety. In Ohio the approach was, “Trust God, Clean House, and Help Others.” Clarence felt that the approach in New York was, “Don’t Drink and Go To Meetings.” Moreover, Clarence thought that if the primary purpose of A.A. were only to stop drinking and, in order to maintain that abstinence, only go to meetings, A.A. was doomed to failure.

Bill Wilson made numerous trips to Ohio to try and find out what they had that worked so well. He spoke with Clarence and with Dr. Bob and attended meetings. He tried to bring back the program of recovery as it was in Ohio to the New York members, but they would not assimilate the spirituality into their brand of A.A.

Clarence provides a very interesting study. I would suggest reading studying the Chapter, “Sudden Growth in Cleveland” ?from DR. BOB & THE GOOD OLD TIMERS. Also, please read page 261to realize the amazing recovery results in Cleveland during those days. ??

Bob S

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Bob S