|
My Aliner came equipped with a WFCO WF-8735-P converter and a lead acid battery. I am considering switching to a lithium battery and am exploring replacement converters. I see that WFCO has a WF-8735-AD (AD= auto detect) that will charge lithium. The AD unit is virtually identical to the P model, making the swap about as easy as it gets. It is also relatively inexpensive.?
Has anyone done a similar swap or is anyone using a WFCO AD converter with lithium? I'd like to hear about your experience.
Larry?
|
I installed the Progressive Dynamics PD4145KW2BL unit.? Lithium switch.? Great products.?? -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
|
Don,
Thanks for that. Any particular reason you decided on a PD unit instead of a WF CO?
lh
I installed the Progressive Dynamics PD4145KW2BL unit.? Lithium switch.? Great products.??
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
|
I am also thinking of switching to a lithium battery. I took my 4 year old lead acid battery that came with my Aliner to a battery shop today snd had it checked out. ?It was at 12.9 volts but he could not tell me anything about how long it would last. We are camping for a week with no hookups. I would like to have lights and fan for a week. I have a 100w solar panel but not sure how much sun I will have. He said a 4 year old battery might not last very long.?
he also said that if I switch to a lithium battery it could damage the alternator on my TV when it try¡¯s to charge the battery. ?I have never heard of that. Any thoughts would be helpful???
thanks?
Don
TV 2020 Toyota Highlander Platinum?
2019 Ranger 12?
|
Huh.? I've never heard of lithium damaging alternators before either, so I just googled it, and yes, it's a thing.? A deeply discharged lithium battery can pull too much power from the alternator, overheating and destroying it.? Thats more true for bigger trailer battery banks and lower quality alternators, and probably doesn't apply to our setups as much.
I have also heard of the opposite.? You have a fully charged lithium battery, which has a voltage over 13 volts.? A smart alternator will see the 13+ volts, and say "nothing to do here", and your trailer battery powers the whole car until the voltage falls below 12.6 or whatever the alternator thinks is low for a lead acid battery.? That problem is compounded if your car battery is old, because the weaker car battery will draw power from the stronger lithium battery.? There are posts of the car pulling 7 amps out of the trailer battery.??
But for both cases, putting in a DC to DC charger will solve the problem.? It prevents backflow of current from the trailer battery, and prevents excess current draw from the alternator.
If you just want a dc to dc charger to fix the above problems, and not to charge the trailer battery faster, get about a 10 amp dc to dc charger.? A 10 amp charger can pull double that on the input side, so 20 amps.? Your wiring in your TV alternator is typically good for 30 amps.? So a 10 amp dc dc charger won't overload wires, blow fuses, or require additional wiring to be installed.?
Victron makes a 9 amp dc to dc charger that should work pretty well.? I'd use that.
Don, for your case of wanting to camp for a week without hookups, you'd be fine if you can get your solar panel in good sun for 4 hours a day.? But if not, you could run out of power, and still might even if you did have lithium.? If you have an electric fridge controller, even when run on propane, it pulls almost 10 amp hours a day.? The fantastic fan or furnace fan could pull another 10 amp hours a day.? So almost 20 amp hours a day is a no go for your current battery or even a 100 amp hour lithium for a 7 day period.??
If you avoided using the fan, an old lead acid battery probably can't even run the electric fridge controller.for 7 days.? But if you don't have an electric fridge controller, you could use the fan a little each day and be ok.??
If you have led lights those draw almost nothing and are not a problem.? If you have incandescent lights in the trailer, dont use them at all and go buy some head lamps for your trip.
If you need more power I recommend that you go buy a cheap 900 or 1000 watt generator. Double check the vendor though.? I just looked and many generators below $299 appear to be scams.? You'll have cloudy days and shaded campgrounds from time to time, and even if you have solar and lithium, you need a generator as a backup.??
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 07:13 PM, Don Mackay wrote:
I am also thinking of switching to a lithium battery. I took my 4 year old lead acid battery that came with my Aliner to a battery shop today snd had it checked out. ?It was at 12.9 volts but he could not tell me anything about how long it would last. We are camping for a week with no hookups. I would like to have lights and fan for a week. I have a 100w solar panel but not sure how much sun I will have. He said a 4 year old battery might not last very long.?
he also said that if I switch to a lithium battery it could damage the alternator on my TV when it try¡¯s to charge the battery. ?I have never heard of that. Any thoughts would be helpful???
thanks?
Don
TV 2020 Toyota Highlander Platinum?
2019 Ranger 12?
|
Steve
Thanks so much for the detailed reply. I appreciate it very much.?
All of my lights are led. I am not sure about the frig control when on propane. It just seems to have an either on or off option. ?As you can tell I am very new to all of this.?
So if I get a DC to DC charger that will protect my alternator. I don¡¯t have a clue how or where to wire it in? ?Any help would be deeply appreciated.?
Don
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Huh.? I've never heard of lithium damaging alternators before either, so I just googled it, and yes, it's a thing.? A deeply discharged lithium battery can pull too much power from the alternator, overheating and destroying it.? Thats more true for bigger trailer
battery banks and lower quality alternators, and probably doesn't apply to our setups as much.
I have also heard of the opposite.? You have a fully charged lithium battery, which has a voltage over 13 volts.? A smart alternator will see the 13+ volts, and say "nothing to do here", and your trailer battery powers the whole car until the voltage falls
below 12.6 or whatever the alternator thinks is low for a lead acid battery.? That problem is compounded if your car battery is old, because the weaker car battery will draw power from the stronger lithium battery.? There are posts of the car pulling 7 amps
out of the trailer battery.??
But for both cases, putting in a DC to DC charger will solve the problem.? It prevents backflow of current from the trailer battery, and prevents excess current draw from the alternator.
If you just want a dc to dc charger to fix the above problems, and not to charge the trailer battery faster, get about a 10 amp dc to dc charger.? A 10 amp charger can pull double that on the input side, so 20 amps.? Your wiring in your TV alternator is typically
good for 30 amps.? So a 10 amp dc dc charger won't overload wires, blow fuses, or require additional wiring to be installed.?
Victron makes a 9 amp dc to dc charger that should work pretty well.? I'd use that.
Don, for your case of wanting to camp for a week without hookups, you'd be fine if you can get your solar panel in good sun for 4 hours a day.? But if not, you could run out of power, and still might even if you did have lithium.? If you have an electric fridge
controller, even when run on propane, it pulls almost 10 amp hours a day.? The fantastic fan or furnace fan could pull another 10 amp hours a day.? So almost 20 amp hours a day is a no go for your current battery or even a 100 amp hour lithium for a 7 day
period.??
If you avoided using the fan, an old lead acid battery probably can't even run the electric fridge controller.for 7 days.? But if you don't have an electric fridge controller, you could use the fan a little each day and be ok.??
If you have led lights those draw almost nothing and are not a problem.? If you have incandescent lights in the trailer, dont use them at all and go buy some head lamps for your trip.
If you need more power I recommend that you go buy a cheap 900 or 1000 watt generator. Double check the vendor though.? I just looked and many generators below $299 appear to be scams.? You'll have cloudy days and shaded campgrounds from time to time, and even
if you have solar and lithium, you need a generator as a backup.??
On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 07:13 PM, Don Mackay wrote:
I am also thinking of switching to a lithium battery. I took my 4 year old lead acid battery that came with my Aliner to a battery shop today snd had it checked out. ?It was at 12.9 volts but he could not tell me anything about how long it would last. We
are camping for a week with no hookups. I would like to have lights and fan for a week. I have a 100w solar panel but not sure how much sun I will have. He said a 4 year old battery might not last very long.?
he also said that if I switch to a lithium battery it could damage the alternator on my TV when it try¡¯s to charge the battery. ?I have never heard of that. Any thoughts would be helpful???
thanks?
Don
TV 2020 Toyota Highlander Platinum?
2019 Ranger 12?
|
? Don¡¯t forget the very efficient generator you carry along with you on camping trips: your tow vehicle.? With a DC-DC converter and even the relatively thin OEM wiring in your TV, an idling tow vehicle motor and alternator can recharge your camper battery from 60% to 85% in an hour or two, using about 0.4 gallons of fuel/hour. Of course YMMV.? If you supply robust wiring (awg 8 for example) from your TV battery through a 50amp fuse, then to your 7 pin Bargman receptacle to your DC-DC converter, the charging process will be even more efficient. ? Essentially, you don¡¯t need a separate genset. ? Dave ? ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡. ? If you need more power I recommend that you go buy a cheap 900 or 1000 watt generator. Double check the vendor though.? I just looked and many generators below $299 appear to be scams.? You'll have cloudy days and shaded campgrounds from time to time, and even if you have solar and lithium, you need a generator as a backup.??
|
Don, does your camper have a lithium capable converter?? I think that is required.? The fridge still needs power for the controls and the vent fan when running on propane. -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
|
Don
My Aliner has a charge controller that will charge lithium but they say not more than 80-85%. ?That¡¯s not a big deal to me as we almost always camp off grid with no hookups.?
I have an Aliner with a three way frig and there is no fan in the vents on the side of the camper. I am thinking of putting one in.?
Not really sure if I will get it done before I head out next month.?
With appreciation for your wisdom and support?
Donald Mackay?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Don, does your camper have a lithium capable converter?? I think that is required.? The fridge still needs power for the controls and the vent fan when running on propane.
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
|
Look inside the fridge and get the model number.? Look at the manual for that model (either online or a copy that came with the trailer) and see if it has automatic flame ignition, or if you have to push a big button like on your bbq to make a spark that lights the flame.? Automatic flame ignition means an electric controller.??
An electric controller will turn the flame on and off based on fridge temp.? On a non electric controller, you light the flame by pushing the big button, and the fridge runs at a constant flame, and may get too cold if its cold outside.
The most popular model with an electric controller is the dometic RM2354.? I don't know the model # of the non electric ones.
The dc dc charger is something that you put inline on the power wires going from the car to the trailer.? Think of installation as cutting the two power wires going from the vehicle to the trailer, and plugging these into the inputs and outputs of the charger.? The there are 2 more terminals on the charger that activate it.? If your vehicle shuts off power to the trailer when the engine is off, then you just connect a splice off the two wires from the vehicle to these two terminals.? The activation feature is there so you don't drain the car battery when the engine is off.
The big black cable on the trailer that you plug into the car is called a bargman cable..? it has a black positive power wire, and a white negative power wire, and these charge your battery when connected.? The bargman cable comes up through the trailer floor somewhere, and the black and white wires both go to different twisted bundles of wire held together with a big wire nut (typically, and hopefully your trailer is typical).?
You untwist the wire nuts, remove the black and white wires, and fasten them to the input terminals of the dc dc charger of appropriate polarity.? Then you take two new wires, fasten them to the output terminals of the dc dc charger, and the other end of each wire gets twisted back into the bundle of the original wire nut.
But I'll warn you, wire nuts are a pain in the butt.? When you untwist them, they bend wires against the grain, and strands snap off.? So you'll have to cut off and restrip just about every wire in the wire nut.??
I dont recommend refastening the wires with wire nuts.? Use split bolts instead.? Get multiple sizes from home depot, and then return thd ones that weren't the right size.? You'll have to strip a full inch or so of wire for the split bolts, and then since they are not insulated, wrap them in a lot of black electrical tape like a big lollipop.
On most vehicles, note that you can only put in a 10 amp dc dc charger on existing wire.? A 20 amp will blow the fuse for the bargman power thats inside your vehicle.? Maybe big trucks can handle higher loads but I doubt it because nobody makes thicker power wires in a bargman cable.
A dc dc charger has ventilation requirements.? You might have to put a fan in the compartment where you mount it.
Also see the comments i going to make on Dave's reply.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 09:12 PM, Don Mackay wrote:
Steve
?
Thanks so much for the detailed reply. I appreciate it very much.?
?
All of my lights are led. I am not sure about the frig control when on propane. It just seems to have an either on or off option. ?As you can tell I am very new to all of this.?
?
So if I get a DC to DC charger that will protect my alternator. I don¡¯t have a clue how or where to wire it in? ?Any help would be deeply appreciated.?
?
Don
Huh.? I've never heard of lithium damaging alternators before either, so I just googled it, and yes, it's a thing.? A deeply discharged lithium battery can pull too much power from the alternator, overheating and destroying it.? Thats more true for bigger trailer battery banks and lower quality alternators, and probably doesn't apply to our setups as much.
I have also heard of the opposite.? You have a fully charged lithium battery, which has a voltage over 13 volts.? A smart alternator will see the 13+ volts, and say "nothing to do here", and your trailer battery powers the whole car until the voltage falls below 12.6 or whatever the alternator thinks is low for a lead acid battery.? That problem is compounded if your car battery is old, because the weaker car battery will draw power from the stronger lithium battery.? There are posts of the car pulling 7 amps out of the trailer battery.??
But for both cases, putting in a DC to DC charger will solve the problem.? It prevents backflow of current from the trailer battery, and prevents excess current draw from the alternator.
If you just want a dc to dc charger to fix the above problems, and not to charge the trailer battery faster, get about a 10 amp dc to dc charger.? A 10 amp charger can pull double that on the input side, so 20 amps.? Your wiring in your TV alternator is typically good for 30 amps.? So a 10 amp dc dc charger won't overload wires, blow fuses, or require additional wiring to be installed.?
Victron makes a 9 amp dc to dc charger that should work pretty well.? I'd use that.
Don, for your case of wanting to camp for a week without hookups, you'd be fine if you can get your solar panel in good sun for 4 hours a day.? But if not, you could run out of power, and still might even if you did have lithium.? If you have an electric fridge controller, even when run on propane, it pulls almost 10 amp hours a day.? The fantastic fan or furnace fan could pull another 10 amp hours a day.? So almost 20 amp hours a day is a no go for your current battery or even a 100 amp hour lithium for a 7 day period.??
If you avoided using the fan, an old lead acid battery probably can't even run the electric fridge controller.for 7 days.? But if you don't have an electric fridge controller, you could use the fan a little each day and be ok.??
If you have led lights those draw almost nothing and are not a problem.? If you have incandescent lights in the trailer, dont use them at all and go buy some head lamps for your trip.
If you need more power I recommend that you go buy a cheap 900 or 1000 watt generator. Double check the vendor though.? I just looked and many generators below $299 appear to be scams.? You'll have cloudy days and shaded campgrounds from time to time, and even if you have solar and lithium, you need a generator as a backup.??
On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 07:13 PM, Don Mackay wrote:
I am also thinking of switching to a lithium battery. I took my 4 year old lead acid battery that came with my Aliner to a battery shop today snd had it checked out. ?It was at 12.9 volts but he could not tell me anything about how long it would last. We are camping for a week with no hookups. I would like to have lights and fan for a week. I have a 100w solar panel but not sure how much sun I will have. He said a 4 year old battery might not last very long.?
he also said that if I switch to a lithium battery it could damage the alternator on my TV when it try¡¯s to charge the battery. ?I have never heard of that. Any thoughts would be helpful???
thanks?
Don
TV 2020 Toyota Highlander Platinum?
2019 Ranger 12?
|
Using existing wires i could only put in a max of a 10 amp dc dc charger, since the charger pulls 2x the rated amps on the input side, and my car (like most cars) has a 30 amp fuse in the bargman power line..? That means for my 30 AH use per day, I'd have to charge for 3 hours.? That's too much hassle.
I'm space limited in my electronics cabinet, and can't put in a big dc dc charger without overheating things.? I'm also not enthused with putting bigger wires in my vehicle, and hooking up extra wires for something I would rarely need.?
That got me thinking about the people that used jumper cables to connect the trailer battery to the car battery.? The problem there is you have unlimited flow of current.
Soooooo, the solution:? Rig up a pair of jumper cables with a 40 amp dc dc charger in the middle.? The cable diameter wouldn't need to be massive like actual jumper cables.? I could fully charge in 45 minutes.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 08:57 AM, elegy3983 wrote:
?
Don¡¯t forget the very efficient generator you carry along with you on camping trips: your tow vehicle.? With a DC-DC converter and even the relatively thin OEM wiring in your TV, an idling tow vehicle motor and alternator can recharge your camper battery from 60% to 85% in an hour or two, using about 0.4 gallons of fuel/hour. Of course YMMV.? If you supply robust wiring (awg 8 for example) from your TV battery through a 50amp fuse, then to your 7 pin Bargman receptacle to your DC-DC converter, the charging process will be even more efficient.
?
Essentially, you don¡¯t need a separate genset.
?
Dave
?
¡¡¡¡¡¡¡.
?
If you need more power I recommend that you go buy a cheap 900 or 1000 watt generator. Double check the vendor though.? I just looked and many generators below $299 appear to be scams.? You'll have cloudy days and shaded campgrounds from time to time, and even if you have solar and lithium, you need a generator as a backup.??
|
? I have a manually controlled three-way 3 cu.ft. Dometic fridge in my 2005 LXE.? When cooling using propane, the thermostat does indeed control the flame.? When I light the unit manually using the push button, it lights a pilot flame.? When the thermostat calls for cooling, then the pilot flame lights the full flame which heats the chimney, leading to a successful absorption cooling cycle. ? I have found that the propane powered cooling cycle is somewhat more efficient than the 120 vac electrically heated cycle, hence the same thermostat setting yields a few degrees cooler interior, which could lead one to infer that the cycle is continuous, but it is still regulated. ? Dave ? ¡¡¡¡¡. ? On a non electric controller, you light the flame by pushing the big button, and the fridge runs at a constant flame, and may get too cold if its cold outside.
|
Donald,
I installed a pair of Silenx fans a few years back.? Very quiet, low consumption, .11 amps.? But another owner was telling me about installing a fan unit inside the fridge, and while looking at those units, I see there are a number of fan units designed for both inside and outside on Amazon.? It would simplify installation.? Don't forget to take into consideration the vent cover.? I had to redo my install because the fans prevented the cover from seating properly. -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
|
Steve, did you provide a link to your DC DC charger?? I need to read up on these a bit. -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
|
Here's a link to the 9 amp dc dc charger:
I don't have one of these.? I saw? ?post from someone else that described it, and took note since it is a highly reputable brand, and is less expensive? than anything else.? Buying the renogy 20 amp one and then setting the jumper to cut it back to 1/2 power is a more costly solution, since you're buying more power than you need and then not using it.
One weird thing about this charger is that I can find it on Amazon, but not on the victron website.? Makes me question if this is a legit Victron product.? The victron website, however, does have the manual for this charger.? Maybe its been discontinued???
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 06:44 AM, Don DeRyke wrote:
Steve, did you provide a link to your DC DC charger?? I need to read up on these a bit.
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
?On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 06:44 AM, Don DeRyke wrote:
Steve, did you provide a link to your DC DC charger?? I need to read up on these a bit.
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
|
Don DeRyke
Don Mackay