Re: Lithium ion phosphate battery
Be careful here.? Sure some people drop in a lithium battery and have no major issues.? But others do have issues.? Which category will your setup fall into?? You have to take into account make, model, and year of tow vehicle, brand of lithium battery and max charge rate, how it was wired (direct or through the bargman cable), how many batteries are being charged, and how deeply discharged the lithium battery was when the test was started (some never deeply discharge the battery).
With just one battery and charging through the bargman cable, I doubt, but can't guarantee, you won't damage your alternator.? You would probably blow the typical 30 amp fuse on the bargman power wire first.?
But you have other more likely problems you may need to deal with:
Some vehicles won't charge a lithium trailer battery while towing, and instead drain it.? I know my 4Runner has a bad problem in this area.? The dc dc charger also fixes this.
Some converters have an equalization mode that may wreck a lithium battery.
Some converters are reluctant to go to 14.4 volts, and do a lousy job of charging a lithium battery.? That gives you less battery power, and also shortens the life of the lithium battery.
If you get a new converter, get a 50 amp one.? That will shorten charging times, which is nice when using a generator.
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Re: Lithium ion phosphate battery
Thanks to all who responded.? I have a solar panel permanently mounted on my Aliner which helps charge the battery while towing and have never had any problems draining the battery with the fridge running on 12 volts.? My concern is that sometimes when I am camping in the deep woods I do not receive enough sun on my solar panel to charge the battery so when I leave the campsite my agm battery is discharged.? If the same thing happened with a lithium battery, I was concerned that this might cause a problem with my alternator while towing home.
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I would watch the BigClive video on the dangers of attempting to burn wood with a microwave transformer. He claims 30 people have died trying it in the USA. He gives a good explanation of what could happen and why it kills.
--
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Re: Lithium ion phosphate battery
Thanks Dan, this was the info I was looking for. The videos on YouTube showing a smoking alternator were a little scary. But, they only showed the alternator connected directly to the lithium battery.? I was wondering, though, if you have towed after camping with the lithium battery almost completely discharged.? According to the info out there, this is when you could fry the alternator.
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Re: Lithium ion phosphate battery
I recently replaced my original deep cycle lead-acid marine battery for a 100AH Lithium Iron Phosphate battery. As others have said, the "full charge" voltage of the LiFePo battery is higher than lead-acid, about 14.4-14.6V. The car cannot over charge it. I upgraded the DC converter in my 2008 Aliner to a newer one that had a setting for the lithium battery. I also added a solar panel and charge controller, as well as a cutoff switch for the shore power charger. This last bit was to insure I am not constantly "floating" the lithium battery at 14.6v while I am connected to shore power for extended periods. One of the main reasons I wanted to switch to a higher capacity battery was so that I am not completely draining it while driving long distances while the fridge is running on 12 volts. The fridge draws about 10amps while on DC. I have found that with the tow vehicle running, about 5 amps is being supplied from the tow vehicle. This halves the amount needed from the camper battery. The solar panel can add an additional 2-3 amps while driving on a sunny day. I can monitor the charge/discharge current and battery voltage via Bluetooth while driving. Getting ready for a 5000 mile road trip for the eclipse and I expect this upgrade to help a lot on future trips as well.
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Re: Lithium ion phosphate battery
Years ago I had my vehicle battery go dead while camping in a remote area of Michigan¡¯s UP. I left an inverter plugged into a constant 12v outlet. With our Aliner Classic we now often?camp in remote areas without cell service. I installed solar panels and controller to change the camper batteries while camping and on the road. The is no electrical connection, other than lights, between the camper and TV. I would not risk being stranded for the sake of a couple hundred dollars saved by charging from the TV. Modern batteries seem to fail without much warning. Note: I am a bit paranoid about that so I found space under the hood to mount an extra battery totally disconnected from anything that is ready to be used for a jump start if needed. Just my 2 cents.
JoeS
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Re: Lithium ion phosphate battery
I hadn't installed any extra devices from the tow vehicle & ran a lithium battery for several years without issue, the wire size to the 7 way connector won't allow you to draw too much from the tow vehicle (too much line loss). But your vehicle may not charge your lithium all the way and might even discharge it a little while towing (approx 90% charge).? The higher lithium battery voltage may prevent your alternator from charging? until the voltage on the lipo4 battery drops a little, some people tow with headlights on to keep the alternator engaged. (if you have a newer smart alternator)
But in general no issues. Happy Camping Dan S
Last year I added a small cable from my roof mounted solar (before I just hooked up when parked) , so I solar charge while driving now also
On Thu, Feb 29, 2024 at 5:20 PM, BobF <rf771918@...> wrote: Hi all.? I was thinking about swapping out my AGM battery in my Aliner Classic for a lithium one.? The biggest concern I have is the possibility of burning out the alternator in my tow vehicle if the li ion is discharged when towing.? I have read that a DC-DC charger would solve this potential problem, but was wondering if anyone has installed a single 100 ah li ion battery without any other devices.? And if they did, were there any problems.? Thanks
?? Bob
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Lithium ion phosphate battery
Hi all.? I was thinking about swapping out my AGM battery in my Aliner Classic for a lithium one.? The biggest concern I have is the possibility of burning out the alternator in my tow vehicle if the li ion is discharged when towing.? I have read that a DC-DC charger would solve this potential problem, but was wondering if anyone has installed a single 100 ah li ion battery without any other devices.? And if they did, were there any problems.? Thanks
?? Bob
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Hi all.? Isn't someone in our group an electrical engineer?? I have a new dangerous hobby involving high voltage electrical current.? ( Fractal, or Lichtenberg wood burning )? I'd like a bit of critique on the device I built, and its relative safety.
Thanks!
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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A YouTube was posted by the Laughing Couple on how they solved this problem prior to buying and backing up an Aliner.? They rented a Uhaul trailer and practiced backing it up in a large empty parking lot.? I would suggest you tell the lady to rent a pickup truck and a trailer for a couple of hours from UHaul and do the testing with these rented items.
I would strongly advise against letting anyone do what she requests.? She should not be buying a trailer if she has no tow vehicle and no prior experience with towing a trailer of any sort.? Be sure to get the money before you give her possession of the trailer if you sell it to her.?
This whole scenario sounds like some kind of an unbelievable scam.? Let Uhaul take the risk by renting the needed equipment to her.
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Re: Mounting spare on underside of tongue
If dirt roads are rough or even washboard I air down my general grabber ATs. Makes a huge difference. Also looking to add shocks to supplement my leaf springs. That should help even more. Nothing like boondocking away from the crowds, especially out west. Steve B. 2017 high wall Chalet Arrowhead with 4 inch lift 4X4 03 Tacoma TV
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 5:19?PM Steve T < srtimm@...> wrote: I think that since Aliner went to 4 inch beams on their mid sized trailers, their frames are comparable to Chalets for strength, with the exception of the bumper, if they're still using C channel.
Be careful taking your trailer off road.? I would expect that even in a Chalet, some things would start popping loose from extensive off roading, unless you went real slow when its rough.??
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 03:26 PM, stephen boyce wrote:
I agree about the Chalet A-frame bumper and frame being much stronger than Aliner's. My 27-850-14 General Grabber AT spare is on a cable underneath the rear of the camper. Much better and I take my Chalet off road a lot. No issues.??
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 4:11?PM Steve T < srtimm@...> wrote: They fail because the bumpers are too damn flimsy!? The bumpers made of C channel were especially bad because the bumper was weak and the welds were also not very strong.? Chalets have 2x4 box beam bumpers and people have been bolting 100 lbs of bikes and bike racks to that and the bumper hasn't been breaking.? Aliner is saving a few dollars on their bumpers and that's why the spares fall off.
If you want to give feedback to Aliner on the ultimate spare mounts tell them to put a spare tire cable winch under the rear of the trailer and mount the spare with that.? Then you have something that will never fail, the spare is less accessible to thieves, the spare won't rot in the sun,? the trailer is about a foot shorter for those with small garages, and then you can fasten other stuff to the rear bumper.
Unfortunately, though, retrofitting a cable winch to an existing trailer is probably not feasible because the floor of the trailer gets in the way of welding it on.
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 03:59 AM, Carl wrote:
Hi Joe:
They fail due to Torque loading with the addition of shock from road bumps. From an engineer's point of view a sure way to fail.
If they would just secure the top of the spare mount from shaking the shock load wouldn't be a factor.
Our spare is only resting on the bumper and an angle iron of aluminum inside the back wall keeps the tire from falling off.
We all should have a spare, why hasn't Aliner found a standard place to store one, with a jack!
Carl.
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Re: Mounting spare on underside of tongue
I think the C channel is really lame.? It doesn't conform to any simple brackets for mounting stuff.? The 4x4 would be good if it was twice the thickness.? I was well aware of the issues when I decided to go 6000 miles with four bikes on a top hanging rack, and the spare tire on my 4x4 bumper.
I added eyelets to the corners of the roof, and ratchet strapped the top of the bike rack to minimize rocking.? Ultimately I decided I needed ratchet straps around the base as well doing to moving parts of the bike rack.? 2000 miles out, I realized the bumper metal was tearing near the welds.? The welds did not fail.? We had a friend in the area that welds, so we added a couple of pieces of angle iron in the middle of the night to keep on schedule.? We also rigged a way to move two bikes to the tongue.
Ultimately, I cut all the added angle off, and built those collars to increase the weld area.? I built a receiver that is independent of the bumper altogether.? I used the bumper issue to justify buying my welding equipment.? LOL? My initial stick welds on the bumper collars were admittedly pretty rough, but secure.? I switched to MIG on the receiver, which came out much better. -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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I wouldn't hesitate to do it.? But take her to an area of low traffic.? Here in Ft. Lauderdale it would be challenging.? Also get all of her identification in advance in case something goes wrong.? An of course make sure your insurance covers her as a driver.? IMO -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Mounting spare on underside of tongue
In my case my spare did not wiggle at the mount, I had added some hardware so it would sit securely against the mount.??
It seems more of an underwhelming design thin bumper with a large weight at the end of an arm. That's a lot of torque on a few tack welds,? ?especially on high speed freeways that are less than optimal.?
Your mileage may vary Happy Camping
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 7:12 PM, Carl <carl.blum@...> wrote:
Hi JoeS:
I hope that
took care of all your wiggles. Any movement contributes to
fatigue cracking. Some folks have added nylon straps to keep
their spare tire from bouncing.
Carl.
On 2/25/2024 7:19 PM, JoeS via
groups.io wrote:
Carl,
You mentioned shaking as a contributing factor to the bumper
failure. I found on my spare tire mount there are 2 little
brackets (for¡ a lock?) that come out of the center hole of the
spare wheel that don¡¯t allow it to sit flush and tight against the
mount. I could see in my rear view camera that the spare tire
would wiggle back and forth. I had to grind notches in the little
brackets to clear the center hole on the wheel. I agree that this
could have contributed to the failures.
JoeS
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Hello Sonny533:
I think that S. Boyce has a very good suggestion. If this party
is planning on camping with this unit, she should definitely find
out how it handles with HER vehicle as the tow vehicle. After all,
if she is planning on camping with it, that is the combination she
needs to be sure is a good match.
Hubert Paulson
Nebraska
2014 Grand Caravan SX
2004 Sportliner - "Escape Pod"
Need
advice please... a woman is interested in purchasing my Scout
Lite but has never towed anything before. She asked if we could
hitch it up to my vehicle and take it for a short ride and she
then wants to drive my SUV with the camper (and me still in the
car) for a few minutes to see what it's like. I am not entirely
comfortable with the idea for a few of my own reasons but wanted
to see if anyone else had done this before? As a point of
information, I met her today for her to look at it. She is a
retired woman who lives in my city and is very interested. I
don't have any reason to think that my safety would be in
jeopardy so I am not looking for advice on that subject, just on
whether or not you would do this for a potential buyer or not
and why. Thanks!
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Re: Mounting spare on underside of tongue
Hi JoeS:
I hope that
took care of all your wiggles. Any movement contributes to
fatigue cracking. Some folks have added nylon straps to keep
their spare tire from bouncing.
Carl.
On 2/25/2024 7:19 PM, JoeS via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Carl,
You mentioned shaking as a contributing factor to the bumper
failure. I found on my spare tire mount there are 2 little
brackets (for¡ a lock?) that come out of the center hole of the
spare wheel that don¡¯t allow it to sit flush and tight against the
mount. I could see in my rear view camera that the spare tire
would wiggle back and forth. I had to grind notches in the little
brackets to clear the center hole on the wheel. I agree that this
could have contributed to the failures.
JoeS
|
Re: Mounting spare on underside of tongue
Carl,
You mentioned shaking as a contributing factor to the bumper failure. I found on my spare tire mount there are 2 little brackets (for¡ a lock?) that come out of the center hole of the spare wheel that don¡¯t allow it to sit flush and tight against the mount. I could see in my rear view camera that the spare tire would wiggle back and forth. I had to grind notches in the little brackets to clear the center hole on the wheel. I agree that this could have contributed to the failures.
JoeS
|
Re: Mounting spare on underside of tongue
I think that since Aliner went to 4 inch beams on their mid sized trailers, their frames are comparable to Chalets for strength, with the exception of the bumper, if they're still using C channel.
Be careful taking your trailer off road.? I would expect that even in a Chalet, some things would start popping loose from extensive off roading, unless you went real slow when its rough.??
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 03:26 PM, stephen boyce wrote:
I agree about the Chalet A-frame bumper and frame being much stronger than Aliner's. My 27-850-14 General Grabber AT spare is on a cable underneath the rear of the camper. Much better and I take my Chalet off road a lot. No issues.??
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 4:11?PM Steve T < srtimm@...> wrote: They fail because the bumpers are too damn flimsy!? The bumpers made of C channel were especially bad because the bumper was weak and the welds were also not very strong.? Chalets have 2x4 box beam bumpers and people have been bolting 100 lbs of bikes and bike racks to that and the bumper hasn't been breaking.? Aliner is saving a few dollars on their bumpers and that's why the spares fall off.
If you want to give feedback to Aliner on the ultimate spare mounts tell them to put a spare tire cable winch under the rear of the trailer and mount the spare with that.? Then you have something that will never fail, the spare is less accessible to thieves, the spare won't rot in the sun,? the trailer is about a foot shorter for those with small garages, and then you can fasten other stuff to the rear bumper.
Unfortunately, though, retrofitting a cable winch to an existing trailer is probably not feasible because the floor of the trailer gets in the way of welding it on.
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 03:59 AM, Carl wrote:
Hi Joe:
They fail due to Torque loading with the addition of shock from road bumps. From an engineer's point of view a sure way to fail.
If they would just secure the top of the spare mount from shaking the shock load wouldn't be a factor.
Our spare is only resting on the bumper and an angle iron of aluminum inside the back wall keeps the tire from falling off.
We all should have a spare, why hasn't Aliner found a standard place to store one, with a jack!
Carl.
![]()
?
?
|
Re: Mounting spare on underside of tongue
I agree about the Chalet A-frame bumper and frame being much stronger than Aliner's. My 27-850-14 General Grabber AT spare is on a cable underneath the rear of the camper. Much better and I take my Chalet off road a lot. No issues.??
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 4:11?PM Steve T < srtimm@...> wrote: They fail because the bumpers are too damn flimsy!? The bumpers made of C channel were especially bad because the bumper was weak and the welds were also not very strong.? Chalets have 2x4 box beam bumpers and people have been bolting 100 lbs of bikes and bike racks to that and the bumper hasn't been breaking.? Aliner is saving a few dollars on their bumpers and that's why the spares fall off.
If you want to give feedback to Aliner on the ultimate spare mounts tell them to put a spare tire cable winch under the rear of the trailer and mount the spare with that.? Then you have something that will never fail, the spare is less accessible to thieves, the spare won't rot in the sun,? the trailer is about a foot shorter for those with small garages, and then you can fasten other stuff to the rear bumper.
Unfortunately, though, retrofitting a cable winch to an existing trailer is probably not feasible because the floor of the trailer gets in the way of welding it on.
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 03:59 AM, Carl wrote:
Hi Joe:
They fail due to Torque loading with the addition of shock from road bumps. From an engineer's point of view a sure way to fail.
If they would just secure the top of the spare mount from shaking the shock load wouldn't be a factor.
Our spare is only resting on the bumper and an angle iron of aluminum inside the back wall keeps the tire from falling off.
We all should have a spare, why hasn't Aliner found a standard place to store one, with a jack!
Carl.
![]()
|
Re: Mounting spare on underside of tongue
They fail because the bumpers are too damn flimsy!? The bumpers made of C channel were especially bad because the bumper was weak and the welds were also not very strong.? Chalets have 2x4 box beam bumpers and people have been bolting 100 lbs of bikes and bike racks to that and the bumper hasn't been breaking.? Aliner is saving a few dollars on their bumpers and that's why the spares fall off.
If you want to give feedback to Aliner on the ultimate spare mounts tell them to put a spare tire cable winch under the rear of the trailer and mount the spare with that.? Then you have something that will never fail, the spare is less accessible to thieves, the spare won't rot in the sun,? the trailer is about a foot shorter for those with small garages, and then you can fasten other stuff to the rear bumper.
Unfortunately, though, retrofitting a cable winch to an existing trailer is probably not feasible because the floor of the trailer gets in the way of welding it on.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 03:59 AM, Carl wrote:
Hi Joe:
They fail due to Torque loading with the addition of shock from road bumps. From an engineer's point of view a sure way to fail.
If they would just secure the top of the spare mount from shaking the shock load wouldn't be a factor.
Our spare is only resting on the bumper and an angle iron of aluminum inside the back wall keeps the tire from falling off.
We all should have a spare, why hasn't Aliner found a standard place to store one, with a jack!
Carl.
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Bruce Beford N1RX
Don DeRyke
Brian Hovander
Carl