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On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 09:25 PM, Steve T wrote:
I have a button on my converter to force it into boost mode, which takes the voltage from around 13.6 to 14.4.? ?That increases the current going into the battery by almost 50%.? The voltage drop for 30 ft of 10 awg wire is .43 volts.? If the drop is proportional to voltage, that would mean a 25% power loss.? That's a pretty big hit.
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If the battery is still in bulk charging mode, the converter will automatically compensate for the voltage drop of the wire, unless it is really large. When the voltage at the charger reaches the preset limit, it goes into absorption mode, at constant voltage. True, at the beginning of this mode, the current is still high, so there will be slightly less voltage at the battery, However, as the battery charges, the current drops and the battery voltage approaches the charger output voltage. All this means is that absorption mode takes a bit longer, but the battery will still get fully charged. Boosting the charger voltage in this mode can overcharge the battery, which is not good. Once the charger goes into float mode, you definitely don't want to boost the voltage.
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There certainly is no harm in mounting the charger close to the battery and/or using larger wire to minimize voltage drop, which will improve charging efficiency. However, if you don't need the absolute lowest charging time or highest efficiency, it isn't necessary.
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Note that both the absorption voltage and float voltage are temperature dependent for lead acid batteries. Some chargers include a temperature sensor at the battery and automatically compensate for temperature.
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All the above applies only to lead acid batteries. Li-ion batteries require different charging conditions.
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Scott Ellington
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I have a button on my converter to force it into boost mode, which takes the voltage from around 13.6 to 14.4.? ?That increases the current going into the battery by almost 50%.? The voltage drop for 30 ft of 10 awg wire is .43 volts.? If the drop is proportional to voltage, that would mean a 25% power loss.? That's a pretty big hit.
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On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:56 AM, Scott Ellington wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 01:30 PM, elegy3983 wrote:
All good advice for the first time solar user.? My only concern: I do not recommend the use of self-contained ¡°suitcase¡± solar arrays IF they mount the charge controller on the array instead of next to the battery.? Reasoning is simple: the controller adjusts the voltage/current output from the array to suit the needs of the battery.? Typically the array outputs up to 20 volts, far too much for a 12 volt battery.? So the controller adjusts the voltage down.? Then there is substantial line loss over the wiring from array to battery, and the connector mounted to the camper sidewall.? So after all this loss, the battery may see only 11-12 volts, not enough for a full charge.
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The voltage drop in the wiring isn't really a problem. During the constant-current (bulk) part of the charge cycle, it doesn't matter at all, unless the drop is so large the panel can't supply the required current. In both that and the constant-voltage (absorption) part, the voltage drop just means the charging will take a little longer, but will not prevent fully charging the battery.
The usual Zamp plug on Aliners is connected directly to the battery, which assumes the charge controller will be external. (Without even a fuse, in my case!) I put the controller inside the Aliner and re-wired that plug. An added advantage is that the controller doesn't get rained on.
Scott Ellington
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On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 01:30 PM, elegy3983 wrote:
All good advice for the first time solar user.? My only concern: I do not recommend the use of self-contained ¡°suitcase¡± solar arrays IF they mount the charge controller on the array instead of next to the battery.? Reasoning is simple: the controller adjusts the voltage/current output from the array to suit the needs of the battery.? Typically the array outputs up to 20 volts, far too much for a 12 volt battery.? So the controller adjusts the voltage down.? Then there is substantial line loss over the wiring from array to battery, and the connector mounted to the camper sidewall.? So after all this loss, the battery may see only 11-12 volts, not enough for a full charge.
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The voltage drop in the wiring isn't really a problem. During the constant-current (bulk) part of the charge cycle, it doesn't matter at all, unless the drop is so large the panel can't supply the required current. In both that and the constant-voltage (absorption) part, the voltage drop just means the charging will take a little longer, but will not prevent fully charging the battery. The usual Zamp plug on Aliners is connected directly to the battery, which assumes the charge controller will be external. (Without even a fuse, in my case!) I put the controller inside the Aliner and re-wired that plug. An added advantage is that the controller doesn't get rained on. Scott Ellington
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Water under the rug on the floor
Twice we have found water under the rug (rubber backed heavy duty entry carpet) in front of where the a/c vents are when the a/c has been going for a while. Could this be condensation? What can we do about it? Insulate the floor? All the cupboards around this area are dry.
JoeS
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All good advice for the first time solar user.? My only concern: I do not recommend the use of self-contained ¡°suitcase¡± solar arrays IF they mount the charge controller on the array instead of next to the battery.? Reasoning is simple: the controller adjusts the voltage/current output from the array to suit the needs of the battery.? Typically the array outputs up to 20 volts, far too much for a 12 volt battery.? So the controller adjusts the voltage down.? Then there is substantial line loss over the wiring from array to battery, and the connector mounted to the camper sidewall.? So after all this loss, the battery may see only 11-12 volts, not enough for a full charge. ? When the controller is mounted near the battery, then even after line and connector loss, it will see around 18 volts, which is plenty for it to adjust to the 13-14 volts needed by the battery.? Also, being closely coupled with the battery, there is little/no line loss to corrupt its sensitivity to the battery¡¯s state of charge. ? My advice is to always mount the controller near the battery. ? Dave ? ?
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You're getting a lot of conflicting information so I'll give you some if/thens.
If you use only the trailer appliances and minor other stuff like cell phone charging, then get one 100 watt panel. Also get a 10 amp PWM solar controller. They're cheap and provide enough power for trailer appliances, but note that solar will never run your AC.
If you have a dormer, then you can mount the solar panel to the top of the dormer and make it removable, so if the trailer is in the shade you can dismount it and move it to the sun.
If you don't have a good spot to mount the solar panel, then don't mount it. Just lay it on the bed for travel, and set it out when you camp.
If you want a simple and easy way to setup your solar system, then get a solar controller that's waterproof, and bolt it to the side of the battery box. Then you don't have to run wires through your camper walls or floor to reach a controller inside the trailer.
If you want to install or mount almost nothing, then get a 100 watt "solar suitcase". A suitcase is just a solar controller, solar panel, wires, and stand, all in one package. For that all you have to do is connect 2 wires to the battery. But you'll want to attach two stub connectors to your battery terminals so you dont have to open the battery box to hook up the suitcase. For any suitcase you get, make sure the controller is waterproof, because you'll want to leave it out while you are gone.
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One question to ask yourself is: Do you want to setup and take down solar panels at each campsite to follow the sun or mount it permanently to the roof and charge while you travel and take a chance on getting enough solar to keep a charge while camping.
We opted for the permanent mount with 350 watts of solar and 2 - 6volt golf cart batteries. While off the grid we use led lights, propane fridge, propane furnace, fantastic fan, phone-device chargers and the standard ¡®safety¡¯ sensors. We don¡¯t have an inverter to be able to use any 110v appliances off grid and I¡¯m not sure our batteries would support much. We have gone 4 days at a shady campsite and we were fully charged when we got back to camp at the end of each day. On a travel day when it rained all day it still charged some.
I sized the solar panels by the size if the front dormer roof where I wanted to put them. I installed the solar controller in a waterproof plastic box on the side of the trailer tongue. There are no penetrations into the camper box (something I was afraid of). The Zamp solar plug and wiring are unused. I think I have somewhere around $800 invested in the solar not counting the batteries. Don¡¯t know if I want to total how much we have put into the camper after buying it.
Happy camping,
JoeS
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Greetings?
Once you figure out your electric needs & wants for your solar setup. If you don't want to set up everything yourself portable power stations are a good alternative that will get you up and running fast especially if you want some inverted AC power to run stuff.
Some good brands to checkout are bluetti, ecoflow, Anker (just make sure they are lipo4, some older ones and off brands use other chemistries) when paired with solar panel(s) they are probably the easiest most flexible setup.??
Watch for sales, dont pay more than around $0.50 to $0.60 a watt/hr. (Frequently on sale)
You can watch Bob Wells (cheap rv living) he has some good videos about this?
Happy camping & best of luck in which ever way you choose to go
On Sun, Jul 14, 2024 at 4:29 AM, Eugene Breindel <efbreindel@...> wrote: Congratulations James Van Hoy on making a 30 watt panel work and not run out of electricity. Most people fail miserably with a 100 watt panel. As he mentioned it is good to know your usage and then to follow through and be stingy with that use.
I like to recommend the Renogy 200Watt solar suitcase. It takes the least amount of "accessories" to actually use it for the first time.
Renogy 200 Watt 12 Volt Portable Solar Panel with Waterproof 20A Charger Controller,
This cord Will adapt to your Zamp plug.
Well there you could also look for longer ones to serve as the "extension cord" all in one piece.
CERRXIAN 50cm 10AWG SAE to Male & Female Adapter 10AWG Cable with SAE Conector for RV Panel Solar
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Congratulations James Van Hoy on making a 30 watt panel work and not run out of electricity. Most people fail miserably with a 100 watt panel. As he mentioned it is good to know your usage and then to follow through and be stingy with that use.
I like to recommend the Renogy 200Watt solar suitcase. It takes the least amount of "accessories" to actually use it for the first time.
Renogy 200 Watt 12 Volt Portable Solar Panel with Waterproof 20A Charger Controller,
This cord Will adapt to your Zamp plug.
Well there you could also look for longer ones to serve as the "extension cord" all in one piece.
CERRXIAN 50cm 10AWG SAE to Male & Female Adapter 10AWG Cable with SAE Conector for RV Panel Solar
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Great question! I added Solar to our 2012 Ranger. First thing is to understand the electrical load: what appliances will be using the electricity. Let¡¯s start with lights and assume they are LED! We converted from incandescent which use about 10 times the power of LED. Fridge and hot water heater use 12 volt DC control power. Furnace has the fan which uses a fair amount of power but is not continuous (typically). A microwave. We don¡¯t use that. The ceiling fan. Usually doesn¡¯t run continuously. Air conditioner! I hope not. All of this said, the battery provides the power and the solar recharges the battery. We use a 30 watt panel and have been off grid for close to a month. I added a fused connector to the battery, polarized connectors, a small cable reel and the panel on a stand (homemade). You will need a regulator between the panel and battery! This is critical. Otherwise, when the panel is not charging, it could discharge the battery. I do disconnect the panel at night. The polarized connectors insure that the system can only be connected one way! This should give you some food for thought! Jim
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On Jul 13, 2024, at 12:12?PM, Tom Lingenfelter <tmlink55@...> wrote:
?How do I add solar power to my Aliner?
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How do I add solar power to my Aliner?
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Re: Converting exterior C194 light bulbs to LED's
I have bought LED from Amazon and didn't get the quality I was hoping for.
Try . Call and they will help you with your decision. They stock far better quality bulbs and fixtures.
I bought bulbs from them five years ago and haven't had any problems ( unlike Amazon ) to replace all of my outside lights
for my Classic 2015.
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Re: Converting exterior C194 light bulbs to LED's
That's a mighty powerful light. It pulls 830 mA and generates 1700 lumins.
My old LED lights were about 1/10th the lumens and that was enough, and they used about 1/7th the amps. That dimmer will definitely be needed.
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On Fri, Jul 12, 2024 at 07:38 AM, Don DeRyke wrote:
Good info Steve.
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I agree about the brightness.? My current need is exterior, and brightness is not an issue.? However inside, I'm on my second pair of dimmable fixtures.? The one I have now isn't bad, but it's annoying that I can see the individual LEDs through the lense.? I suppose I could paint it, as some have done.? But this one looks interesting.? I like the dial dimmer control better than holding in a button.? They accept up to 24 volts.
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--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 liter EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Converting exterior C194 light bulbs to LED's
I have used these on my original light fixtures in my 18 expedition. I did not remove the old switch, just put this beside it downstream of the actual switch.
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Re: Converting exterior C194 light bulbs to LED's
Good info Steve.
I agree about the brightness.? My current need is exterior, and brightness is not an issue.? However inside, I'm on my second pair of dimmable fixtures.? The one I have now isn't bad, but it's annoying that I can see the individual LEDs through the lense.? I suppose I could paint it, as some have done.? But this one looks interesting.? I like the dial dimmer control better than holding in a button.? They accept up to 24 volts.
-- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 liter EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Converting exterior C194 light bulbs to LED's
The way they make an LED cheaply is they put in a lousy heat sink.? That will cause the bulb to get very warm, burn out prematurely, or even cause a fire.
Amazon has a lot of cheap leds that burn out far before they should.? The problem is that you get a bunch of vendors selling $1 and $2 bulbs, the vendors of the quality bulbs leave and sell where there's not so much competition on price.? If you buy a bulb on Amazon, read the 1 star reviews, and if people are complaining about burnt out leds, or leds that catch fire, don't buy that one.
One way to tell that a bulb is good is when they say it handles a voltage far higher than 12v.? A bulb rated at 12 to 30v will last forever.??
A problem you'll run into with leds nowadays is they're all too bright for our campers.? The light fixture is a few feet from your head, not in a ceiling 8 ft up.? You only need about 160 lumens, and all the bulbs I can find are a lot brighter than that.? The only solution is to get a dimmer, and make sure the bulbs are dimmable, since some aren't.? ?The best dimmer solutions are new fixtures with rhe dimmer built in.
New fixtures can have the same problem as bulbs, with bad heat sinks, and leds that burn out or catch fire.? Read the reviews.? Again if it says 12 to 30v it should be good.
Some of the led vendors only sell quality leds? ?m4products.com has lots of good stuff, and you'll notice their prices are higher.
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Re: Converting exterior C194 light bulbs to LED's
Hello Don:
I bought my
clearance lights in interior lights from Northern. The tail
lights, Brake Turn & Running, from Amazon. Matching the
shape might be hard.
Carl.
On 7/10/2024 9:12 PM, Don DeRyke via
groups.io wrote:
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I think you're right Carl.? The more I look at it, the cost of
LED's adds up, with the various ones required.? And the new
fixtures are pretty reasonable.? And as you point out, they are
designed around the LED's.? I would like to have the same
clearance lights as I do now, for shape purposes, but they are far
more expensive than others that will do the job.
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 liter EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Converting exterior C194 light bulbs to LED's
I think you're right Carl.? The more I look at it, the cost of LED's adds up, with the various ones required.? And the new fixtures are pretty reasonable.? And as you point out, they are designed around the LED's.? I would like to have the same clearance lights as I do now, for shape purposes, but they are far more expensive than others that will do the job.
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 liter EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Converting exterior C194 light bulbs to LED's
Don, we have replacement led bulb in the original fixtures. At least five years no problems. Sorry I can't tell you where I purchased them. Online somewhere.
John
On July 10, 2024, at 2:52 PM, "Carl via groups.io" <carl.blum@...> wrote:
Hello Don:
I would
suggest new LED fixtures. The direct LED replacement bulbs for
incandescent bulbs can be junk, and you still have a failure
point in the old sockets. We have replaced all with new LED
fixtures and have had only one failure, a red brake light
stopped working.
Carl.
On 7/10/2024 5:14 PM, Don DeRyke via
wrote:
I want to change out my incandescent bulbs to LED's in my
clearance and porch lights, and I suppose the tail lights.? Those
are not the C194's.? ?I know it's been done, but not sure if there
is anything I should, or should not get.? There are plenty of
options on Amazon.
Thanks
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Eugene Breindel
James Van Hoy
Don DeRyke
Carl