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On May 26, 2024, at 9:57?AM, Don DeRyke via groups.io <DERYKED@...> wrote:
?Steve:
I hadn't thought about the effect of jacking the back end up 4" with the camper on it.? I would think it would mostly affect the streeside wall, because it's not going to bend with the rail.? The door side would probably not have an issue.? I may have dodged
a bullet there, by having nothing on the trailer.? I'm still trying to determine the best way to weld in some additional support.? I'm not clear on that yet.? I suspect my options are bit better with everything accessible.
Aliner uses a caulking type of adhesive on top of the frame members.? The fasteners are 3/16" self tapping screws, and they only used them sparsely along the two rails, and at the end of the outriggers.? Nothing screwed into the cross bracing.? Since they have
the vinyl floor on before they attach the floor on the frame, they keep the screws where they are hidden, from view.? They apparently rely heavily on the adhesive, and the one piece construction of the floor.? I intend to use more screws, and probably add
cross members if I can't line up the two joints over the existing.? I haven't measured yet.
The fiberglass exterior of the walls extends beyond the foam core to cover the subfloor edge and has screws into the edge for holding the trim at the bottom.? Inside, a 3/4" x 3/4" wood strip is screwed to the floor, and then screws run through the strip into
the 1/8" interior wood skin.? All of the cabinetry is simply screwed into the 1/8" inner skin.? I'm going to improve that somehow.? Possibly glue and screw a wood strip to the wall, and fasten the cabinets to that.? Or use jack nuts and machine screws.? I
rather like that idea.
I would like have the camper useable by June 10, but it's not looking good, and I don't want to skimp on the frame issues, because it's too difficult to deal with later.? ?
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
Steve:
I hadn't thought about the effect of jacking the back end up 4" with the camper on it.? I would think it would mostly affect the streeside wall, because it's not going to bend with the rail.? The door side would probably not have an issue.? I may have dodged a bullet there, by having nothing on the trailer.? I'm still trying to determine the best way to weld in some additional support.? I'm not clear on that yet.? I suspect my options are bit better with everything accessible.
Aliner uses a caulking type of adhesive on top of the frame members.? The fasteners are 3/16" self tapping screws, and they only used them sparsely along the two rails, and at the end of the outriggers.? Nothing screwed into the cross bracing.? Since they have the vinyl floor on before they attach the floor on the frame, they keep the screws where they are hidden, from view.? They apparently rely heavily on the adhesive, and the one piece construction of the floor.? I intend to use more screws, and probably add cross members if I can't line up the two joints over the existing.? I haven't measured yet.
The fiberglass exterior of the walls extends beyond the foam core to cover the subfloor edge and has screws into the edge for holding the trim at the bottom.? Inside, a 3/4" x 3/4" wood strip is screwed to the floor, and then screws run through the strip into the 1/8" interior wood skin.? All of the cabinetry is simply screwed into the 1/8" inner skin.? I'm going to improve that somehow.? Possibly glue and screw a wood strip to the wall, and fasten the cabinets to that.? Or use jack nuts and machine screws.? I rather like that idea.
I would like have the camper useable by June 10, but it's not looking good, and I don't want to skimp on the frame issues, because it's too difficult to deal with later.? ?
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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? The vertical deformation resistance of a “C” or box frame member is dependent mostly on the length, material and wall thickness of the vertical sides of the frame (called the web of the frame), not the horizontal top and bottom portions.? So drilling relatively small holes for floor fasteners into the top of a box frame would not significantly weaken the entire structure. ? Dave …………………………. ? Don, how was your floor attached to your frame?? I've always thought it would be a bad idea to bolt the floor to the main beams, because putting a big hole on the top of a beam will weaken it.?
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Agreed, it takes guts. And planning.? When I removed the frame deformation in my 2005 LXE years ago, I had to upwardly deform the frame with body attached until the lower door extended past its opening by about 3” as I remember, and even so the body maintained its attachment to the frame.? Despite the 3” intrusion, the actual upward deformation to achieve a planar frame was less than an inch. ? Dave ………………… ? Today was frame day.? I managed to straighten both main rails.? I did it incrementally, and was amazed at how much it took to flatten it out. I was jacking from a point right in front of my stabilizers, which is a good distance from the fixed point so it's relational.? But it took a good 4 inches of rise, to correct a 3/8" drop.? I also used two fixed points.? The first between the step supports as suggested, then I moved closer to the axle.? I also took 90% of the side bend out using a jack and chain creating a bow to pull the two ends toward each other.? That was more difficult and scary that the straightening process.? I wouldn't recommend that for most.? LOL
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Imagine if you had the trailer box bolted to the frame and you bent the frame up 4 inches.? Would the interior furniture have survived without cracking or separating from the floor??
An Aliner has one big sheet of wood for the floor, and that will flex pretty well.? But a Chalet has a wood/foam/wood sandwich for the floor.? Additionally the sandwich is made out of sheets of plywood, and the biggest sheets of plywood are 8x4 ft.? So that means a Chalet floor has those pieces of plywood bonded somehow.? If you bent a Chalet floor, would that crack the bonds between the sheets of plywood?? I can see why no shop wants to do this repair.??
Don, how was your floor attached to your frame?? I've always thought it would be a bad idea to bolt the floor to the main beams, because putting a big hole on the top of a beam will weaken it.? In some places that I can see, my floor is bolted to flanges on the side of the beams.? But I can't see a lot of the floor so don't know what they did everywhere.?
Also, how was your floor attached to the walls?? On my Chalet they only seem to have screws that go down and sideways through a piece of 1x1 wood laid on top of the floor and against the wall.? I can't tell if there's any wood reinforcement inside the wall or floor that replaces the foam, and if no reinforcement, that's not much of a bond.? ??
Another thought I had on replacing a floor is that if you replaced the single sheet of wood floor with multiple sheets of something, you'll wind up with crosswise seams, and I doubt you could attach the floor pieces to one another.? Thus the floor will not help resist the rear end sag, so the frame has to be extra reinforced to take the stress the one sheet of wood used to take.
IMHO frame repairs are tricky.?
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On Sat, May 25, 2024 at 05:05 PM, Don DeRyke wrote:
Today was frame day.? I managed to straighten both main rails.? I did it incrementally, and was amazed at how much it took to flatten it out. I was jacking from a point right in front of my stabilizers, which is a good distance from the fixed point so it's relational.? But it took a good 4 inches of rise, to correct a 3/8" drop.? I also used two fixed points.? The first between the step supports as suggested, then I moved closer to the axle.? I also took 90% of the side bend out using a jack and chain creating a bow to pull the two ends toward each other.? That was more difficult and scary that the straightening process.? I wouldn't recommend that for most.? LOL
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Today was frame day.? I managed to straighten both main rails.? I did it incrementally, and was amazed at how much it took to flatten it out. I was jacking from a point right in front of my stabilizers, which is a good distance from the fixed point so it's relational.? But it took a good 4 inches of rise, to correct a 3/8" drop.? I also used two fixed points.? The first between the step supports as suggested, then I moved closer to the axle.? I also took 90% of the side bend out using a jack and chain creating a bow to pull the two ends toward each other.? That was more difficult and scary that the straightening process.? I wouldn't recommend that for most.? LOL -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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I would carefully record the height you jack up the frame from a fixed reference point and then retract the jack.? Then check the results to see how you have progressed in making the frame straight.? If more bending is needed, I would go a bit higher up with the jack, retract the jack and measure again.? After a few of these cycles you could get to the ideal point of desired bending.? I would go slow instead of fast in this process, so you don't overdo it.? This is how I bent an axle straight years ago.? If you add some metal optimally it should help to prevent a reoccurrence.
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Dave has experience with welding on strengthening plates as I recall from his article.? Increasing the depth of the channel would provide maximum affect for dealing with any high bending moments placed on the frame above the axle.
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HB9000 Heat Pump Duct Modifications
Hi,
?
I was reading about modifications to the heat pump (HB9000) in later Aliners and am interested in trying to replicate what other members have done.? On the Aliner Owners Club DIY page, a PDF is posted that shows how to make modifications to the ducting to make it more efficient.? However, I am not having any luck trying to source some of the materials - specifically the 2.5" flexible ducting hose and the plastic mounting flange for this hose.
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Here is the link to the PDF file:
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If anyone can provide sourcing for these materials, I would be appreciative.? The author is not a member of the AOC and there is no contact information available for him.
?
Thanks,
?
Steve Schmerbeck
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Re: Remounting Spare Tire
I've been fortunate so far as to not having a flat.? I do carry a professional tire plug kit, and 12 volt air compressor that I would probably use first.??
Safe travels! -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Dave:
With the triangular brackets, and axle mount all being welded to the frame, it's hard to imagine how it can bend.? I guess that's why 3/8" to 1/2" steel is needed for the additional bracing.
The pictures show the spacing on my cross members.? It seems I would need to cut one or both and reweld to the added plate.? If I do that, any length and position could be obtained.? That's one advantage of having no camper off the trailer.
I plan to straighten the rails today.? I also have a bow in the rails as well.? It is visible in one picture.? I've don't know what could have caused that, but it's never been an issue to my knowledge.? I have an idea to straighten it using a chain and jack system, but I'm not sure how well it will work. -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Remounting Spare Tire
Thanks Don,? that works.??
I find it disappointing that Aliner doesn’t even mention the removal and remounting of the spare tire.
If you had to change a tire at the side of the road and wanted to remount the flat on the bumper, I wouldn’t want to spend more time trying to figure out how to position that metal plate.?
O’well I hope this helps others that haven’t taken their spare tire off, I’ll have to pay more tension next time.
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? Don: ? The reinforcing plate is welded to the inner web of the frame, from the stringer (cross member) ahead of the wheel well opening to the stringer behind it, a distance of roughly 30” for my 2005 LXE (your dimension may vary).?? First, chain the frame to a hardpoint in the floor, then jack the rear of the frame while supporting the tongue end, until the rear of the frame deforms upward past center, then relax the jack until the frame is true in plane front to back.? Then weld in the reinforcement plate. ? If you’d prefer to skip the reinforcement plate, or to augment it, you can add a pair of stiffening latches to the left and right roof side extrusions once you have reassembled your camper.? These will dissipate the bending load on your frame when you tow across rough roads. ? Here’s a DIY article that goes into detail: ? Dave ? ? ………………………… ? I'm resurrecting this message, because I'm in the thick of it.? I disassembled the camper and purchased the new floor material.? But I need to work on the frame.? Now that there is no camper on it, problems are a little easier to detect.? That is a double edged sword.? My frame drops 3/8" behind the axel, beginning at the center of the tire, not the axle.? But I also found that the frame is bowed 3/8" from front to rear.? It is, however still square corner to corner.? How could that happen?? I haven't had any unusual tire wear, so I'm inclined to ignore it.
I think I can easily correct the downward bend, but I'm still confused on reinforcing it.? I saw the 5 pictures in the files under 05 LXE Frame Straightening.? But I still haven't seen the pic of the plate installed.? I thought I had at some point in time.? As I recall it's on the inside of the frame, not the wheel side.? There are cross members there that might interfere, but could be modified.? So my question is what is the optimal length, and how is it positioned in relation to the axle?
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Re: Remounting Spare Tire
Jack,
I don't have a picture and can't take one anytime soon.? But on my bracket, the wheel hangs on the top bolt, tightened good, but I never thought about torquing it. The metal plate simply spans the hole in the wheel and gets tightened snugly.? Too much tightening will bend the plate.? I always shake my spare tire whenever I stop for gas, too make sure it's snug.? I hope this helps.
-- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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I'm resurrecting this message, because I'm in the thick of it.? I disassembled the camper and purchased the new floor material.? But I need to work on the frame.? Now that there is no camper on it, problems are a little easier to detect.? That is a double edged sword.? My frame drops 3/8" behind the axel, beginning at the center of the tire, not the axle.? But I also found that the frame is bowed 3/8" from front to rear.? It is, however still square corner to corner.? How could that happen?? I haven't had any unusual tire wear, so I'm inclined to ignore it.
I think I can easily correct the downward bend, but I'm still confused on reinforcing it.? I saw the 5 pictures in the files under 05 LXE Frame Straightening.? But I still haven't seen the pic of the plate installed.? I thought I had at some point in time.? As I recall it's on the inside of the frame, not the wheel side.? There are cross members there that might interfere, but could be modified.? So my question is what is the optimal length, and how is it positioned in relation to the axle?
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Thanks Carl,
I picked up the rot proof Coosa board this morning.? It's pretty neat stuff.? No need to coat it with anything unless you want to.? It has less than 1% moisture absorption.? We live and camp mostly in Florida, so the insulation is not a big issue for me.? I am interested in your angle metal and spring comment, but I can't visualize how it is implemented.
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Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Where is VIN NUMBER on A-liner Scout
In the numbers of the VIN is the designated year of the Aliner.? If the 10th character is a J, then it is a 2018.
Just do a search for VIN and year.
Here is one source to find this information:
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2015 Aliner Classic 14" tires with factory spare tire mount on the rear bumper.
I am having new tires ( Goodyear Endurance ) mounted and balanced and getting rid of the Chinese Spare that is 10 Years old
and remounting one of my old Goodyear's ( 5 Years Old ) that is still in good shape as the spare.
I haven't seen any information in the users manual as to the torque spec for the lug nuts on the spare.
I also haven't found any information about how the metal plate that helps holds the spare to the spare tire post is to be
positioned for the second lug nut. Could someone post a picture of the spare with the two lugs and how the metal piece fits.
Thanks for your help.
Jack?
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Re: Where is VIN NUMBER on A-liner Scout
Thanks, Don. I will search again, rechecking those areas.
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Quick update here. ?I was able to return the AGM for a traditional Die Hard Gold RV/Marine battery per your advice. ?I also did a check of all the fuses and had 2 blown fuses that I replaced and things are back in action!
Thanks for your support!
Jonathan
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Scott Peterson
Don DeRyke
Brian Hovander
Michael Galvin