Re: Charging lithium batteries
Steve, did you provide a link to your DC DC charger?? I need to read up on these a bit. -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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The seal, covers the outside of the hinge.? Properly installed, it wraps around the outside corner, and is folded in such a manner as all water should run outside the camper. -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Charging lithium batteries
Donald,
I installed a pair of Silenx fans a few years back.? Very quiet, low consumption, .11 amps.? But another owner was telling me about installing a fan unit inside the fridge, and while looking at those units, I see there are a number of fan units designed for both inside and outside on Amazon.? It would simplify installation.? Don't forget to take into consideration the vent cover.? I had to redo my install because the fans prevented the cover from seating properly. -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Am I missing something?
You might have a missing or twisted piece of weatherstripping up there.? Or maybe the roof halves are not seated properly.? You'll have to get up there on a stepladder and take a look.?
For the short pieces of weatherstripping on my trailer, I've found that the typical adhesive backing on the weatherstripping doesn't hold.? I have to use Permatex weatherstripping adhesive to glue them down:
I can't get rid of all the light coming through on those corners on my trailer, but I have a lot less than in your picture.? But mine has never leaked at that spot.
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I have a fairly large gap at the peak on the drivers side. The door side is good. Am I missing something or should I ask what do I need to do with this? JoeS 
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Re: Charging lithium batteries
? I have a manually controlled three-way 3 cu.ft. Dometic fridge in my 2005 LXE.? When cooling using propane, the thermostat does indeed control the flame.? When I light the unit manually using the push button, it lights a pilot flame.? When the thermostat calls for cooling, then the pilot flame lights the full flame which heats the chimney, leading to a successful absorption cooling cycle. ? I have found that the propane powered cooling cycle is somewhat more efficient than the 120 vac electrically heated cycle, hence the same thermostat setting yields a few degrees cooler interior, which could lead one to infer that the cycle is continuous, but it is still regulated. ? Dave ? ¡¡¡¡¡. ? On a non electric controller, you light the flame by pushing the big button, and the fridge runs at a constant flame, and may get too cold if its cold outside.
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Hello
Kathryn:
I'm not
sure where you had the Eternabond tape, so no comment there.
With a camper with movable walls, I would expect some water
intrusion in a heavy storm, but not a lot.
On our
2000 Aliner the "duck tape" hinge cover was failing, and I put
a 6" strip of Eternabond over both hinges. Two years and it
still looks fine. The one difference I see on our camper is
the roof "wings" come much farther up the roof than yours. Our
camper came with no wings, so these are something I added, and
they run about 12" up the roof. Easy to put on with
pop-rivits.
Do keep
an eye on the springs and watch for them to twist and start
tearing up the wall edge. The photo files have several spring
fixes that work.
Best
wishes, Carl.
On 7/27/2023 7:48 PM, KATHRYN BAXTER
wrote:
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I realized I did nit have my wind protection up,
so maybe...
But here are better pictures. What is it
supposed to look like inside?
I worked like a dog taking off the Damn
eternabond tape that I put on last year when I did my floor
repair.we just had a thunderstorm and now I have a puddle
under the spring. I think it came in by the gray hinge cover
that looks like duck tape. What is that supposed to loom
like on the inside?
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I realized I did nit have my wind protection up, so maybe...
But here are better pictures. What is it supposed to look like inside?
I worked like a dog taking off the Damn eternabond tape that I put on last year when I did my floor repair.we just had a thunderstorm and now I have a puddle under the spring. I think it came in by the gray hinge cover that looks like duck tape. What is that supposed to loom like on the inside?
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Re: Charging lithium batteries
Using existing wires i could only put in a max of a 10 amp dc dc charger, since the charger pulls 2x the rated amps on the input side, and my car (like most cars) has a 30 amp fuse in the bargman power line..? That means for my 30 AH use per day, I'd have to charge for 3 hours.? That's too much hassle.
I'm space limited in my electronics cabinet, and can't put in a big dc dc charger without overheating things.? I'm also not enthused with putting bigger wires in my vehicle, and hooking up extra wires for something I would rarely need.?
That got me thinking about the people that used jumper cables to connect the trailer battery to the car battery.? The problem there is you have unlimited flow of current.
Soooooo, the solution:? Rig up a pair of jumper cables with a 40 amp dc dc charger in the middle.? The cable diameter wouldn't need to be massive like actual jumper cables.? I could fully charge in 45 minutes.
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On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 08:57 AM, elegy3983 wrote:
?
Don¡¯t forget the very efficient generator you carry along with you on camping trips: your tow vehicle.? With a DC-DC converter and even the relatively thin OEM wiring in your TV, an idling tow vehicle motor and alternator can recharge your camper battery from 60% to 85% in an hour or two, using about 0.4 gallons of fuel/hour. Of course YMMV.? If you supply robust wiring (awg 8 for example) from your TV battery through a 50amp fuse, then to your 7 pin Bargman receptacle to your DC-DC converter, the charging process will be even more efficient.
?
Essentially, you don¡¯t need a separate genset.
?
Dave
?
¡¡¡¡¡¡¡.
?
If you need more power I recommend that you go buy a cheap 900 or 1000 watt generator. Double check the vendor though.? I just looked and many generators below $299 appear to be scams.? You'll have cloudy days and shaded campgrounds from time to time, and even if you have solar and lithium, you need a generator as a backup.??
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Re: Charging lithium batteries
Look inside the fridge and get the model number.? Look at the manual for that model (either online or a copy that came with the trailer) and see if it has automatic flame ignition, or if you have to push a big button like on your bbq to make a spark that lights the flame.? Automatic flame ignition means an electric controller.??
An electric controller will turn the flame on and off based on fridge temp.? On a non electric controller, you light the flame by pushing the big button, and the fridge runs at a constant flame, and may get too cold if its cold outside.
The most popular model with an electric controller is the dometic RM2354.? I don't know the model # of the non electric ones.
The dc dc charger is something that you put inline on the power wires going from the car to the trailer.? Think of installation as cutting the two power wires going from the vehicle to the trailer, and plugging these into the inputs and outputs of the charger.? The there are 2 more terminals on the charger that activate it.? If your vehicle shuts off power to the trailer when the engine is off, then you just connect a splice off the two wires from the vehicle to these two terminals.? The activation feature is there so you don't drain the car battery when the engine is off.
The big black cable on the trailer that you plug into the car is called a bargman cable..? it has a black positive power wire, and a white negative power wire, and these charge your battery when connected.? The bargman cable comes up through the trailer floor somewhere, and the black and white wires both go to different twisted bundles of wire held together with a big wire nut (typically, and hopefully your trailer is typical).?
You untwist the wire nuts, remove the black and white wires, and fasten them to the input terminals of the dc dc charger of appropriate polarity.? Then you take two new wires, fasten them to the output terminals of the dc dc charger, and the other end of each wire gets twisted back into the bundle of the original wire nut.
But I'll warn you, wire nuts are a pain in the butt.? When you untwist them, they bend wires against the grain, and strands snap off.? So you'll have to cut off and restrip just about every wire in the wire nut.??
I dont recommend refastening the wires with wire nuts.? Use split bolts instead.? Get multiple sizes from home depot, and then return thd ones that weren't the right size.? You'll have to strip a full inch or so of wire for the split bolts, and then since they are not insulated, wrap them in a lot of black electrical tape like a big lollipop.
On most vehicles, note that you can only put in a 10 amp dc dc charger on existing wire.? A 20 amp will blow the fuse for the bargman power thats inside your vehicle.? Maybe big trucks can handle higher loads but I doubt it because nobody makes thicker power wires in a bargman cable.
A dc dc charger has ventilation requirements.? You might have to put a fan in the compartment where you mount it.
Also see the comments i going to make on Dave's reply.
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On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 09:12 PM, Don Mackay wrote:
Steve
?
Thanks so much for the detailed reply. I appreciate it very much.?
?
All of my lights are led. I am not sure about the frig control when on propane. It just seems to have an either on or off option. ?As you can tell I am very new to all of this.?
?
So if I get a DC to DC charger that will protect my alternator. I don¡¯t have a clue how or where to wire it in? ?Any help would be deeply appreciated.?
?
Don
Huh.? I've never heard of lithium damaging alternators before either, so I just googled it, and yes, it's a thing.? A deeply discharged lithium battery can pull too much power from the alternator, overheating and destroying it.? Thats more true for bigger trailer battery banks and lower quality alternators, and probably doesn't apply to our setups as much.
I have also heard of the opposite.? You have a fully charged lithium battery, which has a voltage over 13 volts.? A smart alternator will see the 13+ volts, and say "nothing to do here", and your trailer battery powers the whole car until the voltage falls below 12.6 or whatever the alternator thinks is low for a lead acid battery.? That problem is compounded if your car battery is old, because the weaker car battery will draw power from the stronger lithium battery.? There are posts of the car pulling 7 amps out of the trailer battery.??
But for both cases, putting in a DC to DC charger will solve the problem.? It prevents backflow of current from the trailer battery, and prevents excess current draw from the alternator.
If you just want a dc to dc charger to fix the above problems, and not to charge the trailer battery faster, get about a 10 amp dc to dc charger.? A 10 amp charger can pull double that on the input side, so 20 amps.? Your wiring in your TV alternator is typically good for 30 amps.? So a 10 amp dc dc charger won't overload wires, blow fuses, or require additional wiring to be installed.?
Victron makes a 9 amp dc to dc charger that should work pretty well.? I'd use that.
Don, for your case of wanting to camp for a week without hookups, you'd be fine if you can get your solar panel in good sun for 4 hours a day.? But if not, you could run out of power, and still might even if you did have lithium.? If you have an electric fridge controller, even when run on propane, it pulls almost 10 amp hours a day.? The fantastic fan or furnace fan could pull another 10 amp hours a day.? So almost 20 amp hours a day is a no go for your current battery or even a 100 amp hour lithium for a 7 day period.??
If you avoided using the fan, an old lead acid battery probably can't even run the electric fridge controller.for 7 days.? But if you don't have an electric fridge controller, you could use the fan a little each day and be ok.??
If you have led lights those draw almost nothing and are not a problem.? If you have incandescent lights in the trailer, dont use them at all and go buy some head lamps for your trip.
If you need more power I recommend that you go buy a cheap 900 or 1000 watt generator. Double check the vendor though.? I just looked and many generators below $299 appear to be scams.? You'll have cloudy days and shaded campgrounds from time to time, and even if you have solar and lithium, you need a generator as a backup.??
On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 07:13 PM, Don Mackay wrote:
I am also thinking of switching to a lithium battery. I took my 4 year old lead acid battery that came with my Aliner to a battery shop today snd had it checked out. ?It was at 12.9 volts but he could not tell me anything about how long it would last. We are camping for a week with no hookups. I would like to have lights and fan for a week. I have a 100w solar panel but not sure how much sun I will have. He said a 4 year old battery might not last very long.?
he also said that if I switch to a lithium battery it could damage the alternator on my TV when it try¡¯s to charge the battery. ?I have never heard of that. Any thoughts would be helpful???
thanks?
Don
TV 2020 Toyota Highlander Platinum?
2019 Ranger 12?
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I worked like a dog taking off the Damn eternabond tape that I put on last year when I did my floor repair.we just had a thunderstorm and now I have a puddle under the spring. I think it came in by the gray hinge cover that looks like duck tape. What is that supposed to loom like on the inside?
|
Re: Charging lithium batteries
Don
My Aliner has a charge controller that will charge lithium but they say not more than 80-85%. ?That¡¯s not a big deal to me as we almost always camp off grid with no hookups.?
I have an Aliner with a three way frig and there is no fan in the vents on the side of the camper. I am thinking of putting one in.?
Not really sure if I will get it done before I head out next month.?
With appreciation for your wisdom and support?
Donald Mackay?
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Don, does your camper have a lithium capable converter?? I think that is required.? The fridge still needs power for the controls and the vent fan when running on propane.
--
Don DeRyke
Sunrise, Florida
2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.?
Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Charging lithium batteries
Don, does your camper have a lithium capable converter?? I think that is required.? The fridge still needs power for the controls and the vent fan when running on propane. -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Charging lithium batteries
? Don¡¯t forget the very efficient generator you carry along with you on camping trips: your tow vehicle.? With a DC-DC converter and even the relatively thin OEM wiring in your TV, an idling tow vehicle motor and alternator can recharge your camper battery from 60% to 85% in an hour or two, using about 0.4 gallons of fuel/hour. Of course YMMV.? If you supply robust wiring (awg 8 for example) from your TV battery through a 50amp fuse, then to your 7 pin Bargman receptacle to your DC-DC converter, the charging process will be even more efficient. ? Essentially, you don¡¯t need a separate genset. ? Dave ? ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡. ? If you need more power I recommend that you go buy a cheap 900 or 1000 watt generator. Double check the vendor though.? I just looked and many generators below $299 appear to be scams.? You'll have cloudy days and shaded campgrounds from time to time, and even if you have solar and lithium, you need a generator as a backup.??
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What are people using for the weatherstripping around the door frame?
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Re: Charging lithium batteries
Steve
Thanks so much for the detailed reply. I appreciate it very much.?
All of my lights are led. I am not sure about the frig control when on propane. It just seems to have an either on or off option. ?As you can tell I am very new to all of this.?
So if I get a DC to DC charger that will protect my alternator. I don¡¯t have a clue how or where to wire it in? ?Any help would be deeply appreciated.?
Don
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Huh.? I've never heard of lithium damaging alternators before either, so I just googled it, and yes, it's a thing.? A deeply discharged lithium battery can pull too much power from the alternator, overheating and destroying it.? Thats more true for bigger trailer
battery banks and lower quality alternators, and probably doesn't apply to our setups as much.
I have also heard of the opposite.? You have a fully charged lithium battery, which has a voltage over 13 volts.? A smart alternator will see the 13+ volts, and say "nothing to do here", and your trailer battery powers the whole car until the voltage falls
below 12.6 or whatever the alternator thinks is low for a lead acid battery.? That problem is compounded if your car battery is old, because the weaker car battery will draw power from the stronger lithium battery.? There are posts of the car pulling 7 amps
out of the trailer battery.??
But for both cases, putting in a DC to DC charger will solve the problem.? It prevents backflow of current from the trailer battery, and prevents excess current draw from the alternator.
If you just want a dc to dc charger to fix the above problems, and not to charge the trailer battery faster, get about a 10 amp dc to dc charger.? A 10 amp charger can pull double that on the input side, so 20 amps.? Your wiring in your TV alternator is typically
good for 30 amps.? So a 10 amp dc dc charger won't overload wires, blow fuses, or require additional wiring to be installed.?
Victron makes a 9 amp dc to dc charger that should work pretty well.? I'd use that.
Don, for your case of wanting to camp for a week without hookups, you'd be fine if you can get your solar panel in good sun for 4 hours a day.? But if not, you could run out of power, and still might even if you did have lithium.? If you have an electric fridge
controller, even when run on propane, it pulls almost 10 amp hours a day.? The fantastic fan or furnace fan could pull another 10 amp hours a day.? So almost 20 amp hours a day is a no go for your current battery or even a 100 amp hour lithium for a 7 day
period.??
If you avoided using the fan, an old lead acid battery probably can't even run the electric fridge controller.for 7 days.? But if you don't have an electric fridge controller, you could use the fan a little each day and be ok.??
If you have led lights those draw almost nothing and are not a problem.? If you have incandescent lights in the trailer, dont use them at all and go buy some head lamps for your trip.
If you need more power I recommend that you go buy a cheap 900 or 1000 watt generator. Double check the vendor though.? I just looked and many generators below $299 appear to be scams.? You'll have cloudy days and shaded campgrounds from time to time, and even
if you have solar and lithium, you need a generator as a backup.??
On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 07:13 PM, Don Mackay wrote:
I am also thinking of switching to a lithium battery. I took my 4 year old lead acid battery that came with my Aliner to a battery shop today snd had it checked out. ?It was at 12.9 volts but he could not tell me anything about how long it would last. We
are camping for a week with no hookups. I would like to have lights and fan for a week. I have a 100w solar panel but not sure how much sun I will have. He said a 4 year old battery might not last very long.?
he also said that if I switch to a lithium battery it could damage the alternator on my TV when it try¡¯s to charge the battery. ?I have never heard of that. Any thoughts would be helpful???
thanks?
Don
TV 2020 Toyota Highlander Platinum?
2019 Ranger 12?
|
Re: Charging lithium batteries
Huh.? I've never heard of lithium damaging alternators before either, so I just googled it, and yes, it's a thing.? A deeply discharged lithium battery can pull too much power from the alternator, overheating and destroying it.? Thats more true for bigger trailer battery banks and lower quality alternators, and probably doesn't apply to our setups as much.
I have also heard of the opposite.? You have a fully charged lithium battery, which has a voltage over 13 volts.? A smart alternator will see the 13+ volts, and say "nothing to do here", and your trailer battery powers the whole car until the voltage falls below 12.6 or whatever the alternator thinks is low for a lead acid battery.? That problem is compounded if your car battery is old, because the weaker car battery will draw power from the stronger lithium battery.? There are posts of the car pulling 7 amps out of the trailer battery.??
But for both cases, putting in a DC to DC charger will solve the problem.? It prevents backflow of current from the trailer battery, and prevents excess current draw from the alternator.
If you just want a dc to dc charger to fix the above problems, and not to charge the trailer battery faster, get about a 10 amp dc to dc charger.? A 10 amp charger can pull double that on the input side, so 20 amps.? Your wiring in your TV alternator is typically good for 30 amps.? So a 10 amp dc dc charger won't overload wires, blow fuses, or require additional wiring to be installed.?
Victron makes a 9 amp dc to dc charger that should work pretty well.? I'd use that.
Don, for your case of wanting to camp for a week without hookups, you'd be fine if you can get your solar panel in good sun for 4 hours a day.? But if not, you could run out of power, and still might even if you did have lithium.? If you have an electric fridge controller, even when run on propane, it pulls almost 10 amp hours a day.? The fantastic fan or furnace fan could pull another 10 amp hours a day.? So almost 20 amp hours a day is a no go for your current battery or even a 100 amp hour lithium for a 7 day period.??
If you avoided using the fan, an old lead acid battery probably can't even run the electric fridge controller.for 7 days.? But if you don't have an electric fridge controller, you could use the fan a little each day and be ok.??
If you have led lights those draw almost nothing and are not a problem.? If you have incandescent lights in the trailer, dont use them at all and go buy some head lamps for your trip.
If you need more power I recommend that you go buy a cheap 900 or 1000 watt generator. Double check the vendor though.? I just looked and many generators below $299 appear to be scams.? You'll have cloudy days and shaded campgrounds from time to time, and even if you have solar and lithium, you need a generator as a backup.??
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 07:13 PM, Don Mackay wrote:
I am also thinking of switching to a lithium battery. I took my 4 year old lead acid battery that came with my Aliner to a battery shop today snd had it checked out. ?It was at 12.9 volts but he could not tell me anything about how long it would last. We are camping for a week with no hookups. I would like to have lights and fan for a week. I have a 100w solar panel but not sure how much sun I will have. He said a 4 year old battery might not last very long.?
he also said that if I switch to a lithium battery it could damage the alternator on my TV when it try¡¯s to charge the battery. ?I have never heard of that. Any thoughts would be helpful???
thanks?
Don
TV 2020 Toyota Highlander Platinum?
2019 Ranger 12?
|
Re: Charging lithium batteries
I am also thinking of switching to a lithium battery. I took my 4 year old lead acid battery that came with my Aliner to a battery shop today snd had it checked out. ?It was at 12.9 volts but he could not tell me anything about how long it would last. We are camping for a week with no hookups. I would like to have lights and fan for a week. I have a 100w solar panel but not sure how much sun I will have. He said a 4 year old battery might not last very long.?
he also said that if I switch to a lithium battery it could damage the alternator on my TV when it try¡¯s to charge the battery. ?I have never heard of that. Any thoughts would be helpful???
thanks?
Don
TV 2020 Toyota Highlander Platinum?
2019 Ranger 12?
|
On Mon, Jul 10, 2023 at 01:18 PM, elegy3983 wrote:
I use the Renogy 20 amp DC-DC converter because it regulates the current to the camper battery in much the same way as a three-stage charger.? The Diann unit you¡¯ve discussed is much like the old Elixir power supplies, in that it supplies a fixed voltage and current flow regardless of battery charge level, which is not a good way to maintain your battery.? Also, as others have noted, these converters work best with there is a heavy wire (8 awg, + and -) from the TV battery to the DC-DC converter and camper battery. ?Yes, the Renogy unit is more expensive, but I believe it¡¯s worth it.
?
Dave
A DC to DC charger such as the Renogy one is really the only way to properly charge the trailer battery from the TV. A direct connection to the TV will never really work right, for a number of reasons. The Renogy ones, and probably others, can also be configured to act as a battery isolator, preventing discharge of the TV battery. Scott Ellington
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Great video! Mine doesn¡¯t need replacement yet, but when it does I¡¯ll know how :-)
Cindy Harris 2013 Expedition Pittsburgh, PA ¡ª¡ª¡ª
Thank you Dave.
This is the video that I mentioned, I did get it slightly out of line and you can see that in the video, but not very much. I did get my seal from Aliner.? I noticed my original was 4 in wide and the replacement was 5 in.
Use my video as a guideline, it may not be exactly the right way to do it but it worked for me.
Cindy
Director,
Have you experienced??
--
Cindy Harris
Pittsburgh, PA
2013 Expedition
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Don DeRyke
Carl
Don Mackay