Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
I have a lifetime of construction related experience, but there is always something to learn or be reminded of.? I recently took up welding, and in my YouTube University studies I ran across this video.? I would urge anyone who uses an angle grinder to watch it.??
https://youtu.be/oJRSkBSb5S8 -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
Kathryn, to keep your repair as simple as possible: forget about cutting out the damaged sections. That avoids having to buy a vibrating universal tool, though they are really handy to have. Just have Home Depot or Lowes or your local lumber yard cut you two rectangles of plywood big enough to span over the damaged floor areas into the undamaged areas. Plus buy a piece of thin sheet aluminum (cuttable with good scissors or metal snips) and cut to same dimensions. Using some adhesive like liquid nails or silicone glue the metal to the underside of one piece of plywood.? Being careful to avoid where any frame members are under the floor, simply drill holes (with 1 person laying under and 1 inside to hold the upper plywood in place) through the upper plywood, the remaining undamaged floor and the lower plywood and sheet metal below it. Bolt through those holes placing nylon insert lock nuts on the lower end of the bolts (those will remain removable in the future but never loosen by accident.) Seal the edges of the lower metal/wood patch with either roofing patch tar or spray rubber sealant. That¡¯s all, folks. On the underside it is possible you might need to do more than one patch on either side of any frame rails but above you can span it all with a single piece. If you are lucky you will be able to do it all in one piece above AND below. Actual installation after precutting and with two warm bodies should be 1/2- 1 hour. Don¡¯t over think this repair. Or let it scare you off.?
On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 6:52 AM KATHRYN BAXTER < kmb442@...> wrote: Thanks all. Still working on it. My proble is brute force non existing. Cannot take metal screws out of the cross beams. Likely will try a repair myself with a cobbling together of all your ideas.? It will certainly not be as good.?
Hello
Flyboy:
Nice
job, thank you for all the photographs.
Carl.
This is a photo of part of my rotten wood repair.? Before
cutting out the bad wood, I first located the metal framework
underneath.? Then basically I cut out the floor using a jig saw
in the open areas and a multi-tool cutter with metal blade when
cutting on top of any metal frame members.? It is easy to tell
when you hit metal.? After removal and cleaning things up, I
used the old wood as a template for cutting the new piece of
1/2" exterior plywood.? The new wood was put down with adhesive
on top of the metal framework, screwed, caulked and then double
plated from underneath on the joints that were NOT above a frame
member.? These were glued and screwed down from the top.? All
new/raw wood on the underside was sprayed with a rubberized
undercoating (similar product to Flex-Seal).
I plan to put together a video in the near future that shows
more of this project.? But hopefully?These photos will help.?
The photo showing me standing on the ground, through the floor,
is the right front corner.? I wanted to include it as an FYI to
show the frame members.? The arrangement is different in the
rear, but it give you an idea.
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Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
Well, ok then!? Sounds like a good way to get out aggression.?? 
On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 01:24:18 PM EDT, Steve T <srtimm@...> wrote:
You have to see the power of a Twelve. Thousand. RPM. Grinder. To understand.? It cuts through anything.? It turns anything to dust.? You hit the head of a screw with it sending a 2 foot spray of sparks, and within 10 seconds the screw is gone, and your back yard is full of a cloud of dust.? The most fun tool in the toolbox.? The guys understand this. :-)
On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 08:06 AM, KATHRYN BAXTER wrote:
H ow in the heck does that get a flat head screw out?
Hello Kathryn:
I can't pull out many rusted fasteners for many reasons: rusted, head damaged and poor access. My go-to tool is an angle grinder:
?$12! They are a bit fearful to use at first with all the sparks flying around, but they do work and don't take a lot of force. I also use this grinder to smooth off screw points that stick through and could really be dangerous.
Carl.
On 7/25/2022 9:52 AM, KATHRYN BAXTER wrote:
Thanks all. Still working on it. My proble is brute force non existing. Cannot take metal screws out of the cross beams. Likely will try a repair myself with a cobbling together of all your ideas.? It will certainly not be as good.?
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Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
You have to see the power of a Twelve. Thousand. RPM. Grinder. To understand.? It cuts through anything.? It turns anything to dust.? You hit the head of a screw with it sending a 2 foot spray of sparks, and within 10 seconds the screw is gone, and your back yard is full of a cloud of dust.? The most fun tool in the toolbox.? The guys understand this. :-)
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 08:06 AM, KATHRYN BAXTER wrote:
H ow in the heck does that get a flat head screw out?
Hello Kathryn:
I can't pull out many rusted fasteners for many reasons: rusted, head damaged and poor access. My go-to tool is an angle grinder:
?$12! They are a bit fearful to use at first with all the sparks flying around, but they do work and don't take a lot of force. I also use this grinder to smooth off screw points that stick through and could really be dangerous.
Carl.
On 7/25/2022 9:52 AM, KATHRYN BAXTER wrote:
Thanks all. Still working on it. My proble is brute force non existing. Cannot take metal screws out of the cross beams. Likely will try a repair myself with a cobbling together of all your ideas.? It will certainly not be as good.?
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Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
That was my question as well, Kathryn. . . . .?
Pam
On Monday, July 25, 2022 at 11:06:25 AM EDT, KATHRYN BAXTER <kmb442@...> wrote:
H ow in the heck does that get a flat head screw out?
Hello
Kathryn:
I can't
pull out many rusted fasteners for many reasons: rusted, head
damaged and poor access. My go-to tool is an angle grinder:
?$12!
They are a bit fearful to use at first with all the sparks
flying around, but they do work and don't take a lot of force.
I also use this grinder to smooth off screw points that stick
through and could really be dangerous.
Carl.
On 7/25/2022 9:52 AM, KATHRYN BAXTER
wrote:
Thanks all. Still working on it. My proble is
brute force non existing. Cannot take metal screws out of the
cross beams. Likely will try a repair myself with a cobbling
together of all your ideas.? It will certainly not be as good.?
|
Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
H ow in the heck does that get a flat head screw out?
Hello
Kathryn:
I can't
pull out many rusted fasteners for many reasons: rusted, head
damaged and poor access. My go-to tool is an angle grinder:
?$12!
They are a bit fearful to use at first with all the sparks
flying around, but they do work and don't take a lot of force.
I also use this grinder to smooth off screw points that stick
through and could really be dangerous.
Carl.
On 7/25/2022 9:52 AM, KATHRYN BAXTER
wrote:
Thanks all. Still working on it. My proble is
brute force non existing. Cannot take metal screws out of the
cross beams. Likely will try a repair myself with a cobbling
together of all your ideas.? It will certainly not be as good.?
|
Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
Hello
Kathryn:
I can't
pull out many rusted fasteners for many reasons: rusted, head
damaged and poor access. My go-to tool is an angle grinder:
?$12!
They are a bit fearful to use at first with all the sparks
flying around, but they do work and don't take a lot of force.
I also use this grinder to smooth off screw points that stick
through and could really be dangerous.
Carl.
On 7/25/2022 9:52 AM, KATHRYN BAXTER
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks all. Still working on it. My proble is
brute force non existing. Cannot take metal screws out of the
cross beams. Likely will try a repair myself with a cobbling
together of all your ideas.? It will certainly not be as good.?
|
Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
I repaired one corner, and have to do it elsewhere too.? I may do a whole floor down the road.? With mine I used 3/4" plywood I coated on both sides with Gorilla Flex seal after I had it cut to fit.? I made a Tee bar out of aluminum to support the wood where it met the dinette frame, and had no support below.? I was thinking of using 3/4" PVC instead of wood, but I didn't due to the cost.? But in hindsight, I probably should have, because I would have had enough left for a second corner, and could have avoided spending the money on the Flex Seal. -- Don DeRyke Sunrise, Florida 2009 Classic, 2020 Ford Escape, 2.0 liter EcoBoost, AWD.? Previous TV 2015 Ford Escape 1.6 ltr EcoBoost engine.
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Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
Hello
David:
I
respectfully disagree. The new floor piece should
extend under the wall. The walls are really only supported by
the floor, there are no trailer frame members that extend up
into the wall. And the floor is only glued to the trailer
frame. While extending the doubling plate under the new floor
to the wall will help, the small strip of rotten wood under
the wall will support little and also as it continues to
degrade the wall could sag into the void. Plus once you cut
flush to the wall the remaining rotten floor will most likely
fall out anyway.
Here is
our camper after I cleaned out the rotten floor. On the left
you can see a bit of the floor stuck to the bottom of the
front wall, on the right is the trim strip. Notice that none
of the plywood paneling looks water damaged. The green on the
far right is the inside of the aluminum siding that had been
folded and stapled to the underside of the original floor.
Staples are what hold the walls to the floor! In my photos you
can't see the ground since the previous fix used a checker
deck plate of aluminum. Notice too that even the greenish
aluminum siding appears corroded by moisture.
I put two sections of plywood in so it
would be easier to slip the new wood under the wall. You can
see notches to clear junk under the wall I couldn't remove.
Plus I've marked where the frame is and where I plan to put
screws and bolts in.
You can't see the second sub floor board,
but in this photo the top board forms a smoother surface. Lots
of galvanized screws and you can see the Gorilla Glue oozing
up around the edges and through holes. I do like its gap
filling properties.
Here is the finished floor painted white.
Dad always said "You can cover a multitude of sins with a coat
of paint." The new bench cabinet came next with shoe bins and
a swing out trash can. Since these photos the floor to the
left under the linoleum has been replaced too.
Hope this helps you visualize what it
takes to fix your floor.
Take care, Carl.
On 7/25/2022 12:02 AM, David Martin
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
If doing a handyman or do it yourself good enough
patch it will be WAY simpler to cut no further than flush with
inside of wall to cut away rotted flooring and place patch also
only up to but not under the wall. On the underside the patch
can extend all the way under the wall to extreme outside edge.
Otherwise the entire box would need to come up to get to that
last less than an inch area. The tar sealed sandwich should be
quite enough to repair this for years to come.?
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Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
Thanks all. Still working on it. My proble is brute force non existing. Cannot take metal screws out of the cross beams. Likely will try a repair myself with a cobbling together of all your ideas.? It will certainly not be as good.?
Hello
Flyboy:
Nice
job, thank you for all the photographs.
Carl.
This is a photo of part of my rotten wood repair.? Before
cutting out the bad wood, I first located the metal framework
underneath.? Then basically I cut out the floor using a jig saw
in the open areas and a multi-tool cutter with metal blade when
cutting on top of any metal frame members.? It is easy to tell
when you hit metal.? After removal and cleaning things up, I
used the old wood as a template for cutting the new piece of
1/2" exterior plywood.? The new wood was put down with adhesive
on top of the metal framework, screwed, caulked and then double
plated from underneath on the joints that were NOT above a frame
member.? These were glued and screwed down from the top.? All
new/raw wood on the underside was sprayed with a rubberized
undercoating (similar product to Flex-Seal).
I plan to put together a video in the near future that shows
more of this project.? But hopefully?These photos will help.?
The photo showing me standing on the ground, through the floor,
is the right front corner.? I wanted to include it as an FYI to
show the frame members.? The arrangement is different in the
rear, but it give you an idea.
|
Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
Hello
Flyboy:
Nice
job, thank you for all the photographs.
Carl.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
This is a photo of part of my rotten wood repair.? Before
cutting out the bad wood, I first located the metal framework
underneath.? Then basically I cut out the floor using a jig saw
in the open areas and a multi-tool cutter with metal blade when
cutting on top of any metal frame members.? It is easy to tell
when you hit metal.? After removal and cleaning things up, I
used the old wood as a template for cutting the new piece of
1/2" exterior plywood.? The new wood was put down with adhesive
on top of the metal framework, screwed, caulked and then double
plated from underneath on the joints that were NOT above a frame
member.? These were glued and screwed down from the top.? All
new/raw wood on the underside was sprayed with a rubberized
undercoating (similar product to Flex-Seal).
I plan to put together a video in the near future that shows
more of this project.? But hopefully?These photos will help.?
The photo showing me standing on the ground, through the floor,
is the right front corner.? I wanted to include it as an FYI to
show the frame members.? The arrangement is different in the
rear, but it give you an idea.
   
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Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
This is a photo of part of my rotten wood repair.? Before cutting out the bad wood, I first located the metal framework underneath.? Then basically I cut out the floor using a jig saw in the open areas and a multi-tool cutter with metal blade when cutting on top of any metal frame members.? It is easy to tell when you hit metal.? After removal and cleaning things up, I used the old wood as a template for cutting the new piece of 1/2" exterior plywood.? The new wood was put down with adhesive on top of the metal framework, screwed, caulked and then double plated from underneath on the joints that were NOT above a frame member.? These were glued and screwed down from the top.? All new/raw wood on the underside was sprayed with a rubberized undercoating (similar product to Flex-Seal).
I plan to put together a video in the near future that shows more of this project.? But hopefully?These photos will help.? The photo showing me standing on the ground, through the floor, is the right front corner.? I wanted to include it as an FYI to show the frame members.? The arrangement is different in the rear, but it give you an idea.
   
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Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
If doing a handyman or do it yourself good enough patch it will be WAY simpler to cut no further than flush with inside of wall to cut away rotted flooring and place patch also only up to but not under the wall. On the underside the patch can extend all the way under the wall to extreme outside edge. Otherwise the entire box would need to come up to get to that last less than an inch area. The tar sealed sandwich should be quite enough to repair this for years to come.?
Hi
Gang:
Rot in
the wall is unlikely: The wall should be a sandwich of
interior plywood (that might rot), the Styrofoam and the
exterior either aluminum or fiberglass.
While
my floors have rotted, the moisture didn't seem to go up into
the wall.
Carl.
On 7/24/2022 7:24 PM, Steve T wrote:
For cutting the existing wood out of the floor, look into getting
an oscillating tool and a saw blade attachment.? That's a great
tool for working in confined spaces, and not too expensive either:
I know Lowes will cut plywood for you.? Probably Home Depot too.
They should be able to cut the main rectangle of the size you
need.? But then you'll probably have to cut anything else.
The tricky part about doing a partial floor repair is getting the
new wood under the rear and side wall.? You'll probably have to
cut the hole bigger than the piece of replacement wood, then drop
the wood in and slide it over.? Then put a small strip of wood
alongside the bigger piece to fill the gap, and then put a
sandwich layer on top to hold things in place.
When you get in there you might also find rot in the wall.? That
would complicate the repair.
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Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
Hi
Gang:
Rot in
the wall is unlikely: The wall should be a sandwich of
interior plywood (that might rot), the Styrofoam and the
exterior either aluminum or fiberglass.
While
my floors have rotted, the moisture didn't seem to go up into
the wall.
Carl.
On 7/24/2022 7:24 PM, Steve T wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
For cutting the existing wood out of the floor, look into getting
an oscillating tool and a saw blade attachment.? That's a great
tool for working in confined spaces, and not too expensive either:
I know Lowes will cut plywood for you.? Probably Home Depot too.
They should be able to cut the main rectangle of the size you
need.? But then you'll probably have to cut anything else.
The tricky part about doing a partial floor repair is getting the
new wood under the rear and side wall.? You'll probably have to
cut the hole bigger than the piece of replacement wood, then drop
the wood in and slide it over.? Then put a small strip of wood
alongside the bigger piece to fill the gap, and then put a
sandwich layer on top to hold things in place.
When you get in there you might also find rot in the wall.? That
would complicate the repair.
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Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
Yeah , I don't think its solid beneath it.
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Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
Hello
Kathryn:
The
original floor goes under that trim and under the wall, all
the way to the exterior surface. Your replacement piece should
too. Then the "trim" could be screwed down to the new floor
section.
Carl.
On 7/24/2022 7:06 PM, KATHRYN BAXTER
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
There is no solid wood on the exterior edge. Only
the trim. If I put it up on the trim the that part will be
higher than the rest of the floor.?
?As much as I would like to do it myself, with
all of your help,I know my limits and that of my back. The
heat wave is also no help. Keep you all posted. Maybe I'll be
more optimistic in the morning.?
Hello
Kathryn:
I
would leave the good solid material around the edges
to have something to add to. Then the new inside floor
could be just one piece cut to fit.
Depending
on how busy the lumber yard is, you might get them to
cut a rectangular piece to size. I think in Europe
this is almost standard and it is odd to buy a full
sheet of plywood??
Once
you get the hang of cut and fit work you will never
have to worry about patching your camper.
Carl.
On 7/24/2022 5:03 PM, KATHRYN BAXTER wrote:
Wouldn't I just do the entire compartment
floor?
I only saw the one photo of an area
with what looked like a view of the driveway under.
Doing a one piece patch is easier in some ways, and
stronger,. But if the areas are not fairly
contiguous then multiples will work. As to how to
cut the pieces, I would do cardboard patterns until
you have the exact shape(s)? you need. Some overlap
larger than cutout areas obviously is needed,
especially to bolt through. Then just use the
cardboard to draw the shape onto both sheet metal (
hardware stores sell thin aluminum sheets about 2' x
2' or larger) and onto plywood ( exterior glue grade
and nominal 1\2" thick). Metal snips or heavy duty
scissors for aluminum and cheapest for plywood wood
be aa saber saw (electric). Sabre saw won't do dead
straight cuts but good enough. Drill for holes to
bolt everything together. When done installing (
much easier with 2 people)'brush cost all exposed
seams below with roofing tar. Easy peasu.?
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Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
For cutting the existing wood out of the floor, look into getting an oscillating tool and a saw blade attachment.? That's a great tool for working in confined spaces, and not too expensive either:
I know Lowes will cut plywood for you.? Probably Home Depot too. They should be able to cut the main rectangle of the size you need.? But then you'll probably have to cut anything else.
The tricky part about doing a partial floor repair is getting the new wood under the rear and side wall.? You'll probably have to cut the hole bigger than the piece of replacement wood, then drop the wood in and slide it over.? Then put a small strip of wood alongside the bigger piece to fill the gap, and then put a sandwich layer on top to hold things in place.
When you get in there you might also find rot in the wall.? That would complicate the repair.
|
Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
There is no solid wood on the exterior edge. Only the trim. If I put it up on the trim the that part will be higher than the rest of the floor.?
?As much as I would like to do it myself, with all of your help,I know my limits and that of my back. The heat wave is also no help. Keep you all posted. Maybe I'll be more optimistic in the morning.?
Hello
Kathryn:
I would
leave the good solid material around the edges to have
something to add to. Then the new inside floor could be just
one piece cut to fit.
Depending
on how busy the lumber yard is, you might get them to cut a
rectangular piece to size. I think in Europe this is almost
standard and it is odd to buy a full sheet of plywood??
Once
you get the hang of cut and fit work you will never have to
worry about patching your camper.
Carl.
On 7/24/2022 5:03 PM, KATHRYN BAXTER
wrote:
Wouldn't I just do the entire compartment floor?
I only saw the one photo of an area with what
looked like a view of the driveway under. Doing a one piece
patch is easier in some ways, and stronger,. But if the
areas are not fairly contiguous then multiples will work. As
to how to cut the pieces, I would do cardboard patterns
until you have the exact shape(s)? you need. Some overlap
larger than cutout areas obviously is needed, especially to
bolt through. Then just use the cardboard to draw the shape
onto both sheet metal ( hardware stores sell thin aluminum
sheets about 2' x 2' or larger) and onto plywood ( exterior
glue grade and nominal 1\2" thick). Metal snips or heavy
duty scissors for aluminum and cheapest for plywood wood be
aa saber saw (electric). Sabre saw won't do dead straight
cuts but good enough. Drill for holes to bolt everything
together. When done installing ( much easier with 2
people)'brush cost all exposed seams below with roofing tar.
Easy peasu.?
|
Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
Hello
Kathryn:
I would
leave the good solid material around the edges to have
something to add to. Then the new inside floor could be just
one piece cut to fit.
Depending
on how busy the lumber yard is, you might get them to cut a
rectangular piece to size. I think in Europe this is almost
standard and it is odd to buy a full sheet of plywood??
Once
you get the hang of cut and fit work you will never have to
worry about patching your camper.
Carl.
On 7/24/2022 5:03 PM, KATHRYN BAXTER
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Wouldn't I just do the entire compartment floor?
I only saw the one photo of an area with what
looked like a view of the driveway under. Doing a one piece
patch is easier in some ways, and stronger,. But if the
areas are not fairly contiguous then multiples will work. As
to how to cut the pieces, I would do cardboard patterns
until you have the exact shape(s)? you need. Some overlap
larger than cutout areas obviously is needed, especially to
bolt through. Then just use the cardboard to draw the shape
onto both sheet metal ( hardware stores sell thin aluminum
sheets about 2' x 2' or larger) and onto plywood ( exterior
glue grade and nominal 1\2" thick). Metal snips or heavy
duty scissors for aluminum and cheapest for plywood wood be
aa saber saw (electric). Sabre saw won't do dead straight
cuts but good enough. Drill for holes to bolt everything
together. When done installing ( much easier with 2
people)'brush cost all exposed seams below with roofing tar.
Easy peasu.?
|
Re: Ugh bigger problems than AC
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
? Kathryn: ? This damage likely isn¡¯t from your wheel well. It is classic water intrusion from the door-side rear outer corner of your camper.? These corners are very hard to seal completely enough to stop water damage.? Be sure that whoever repairs your camper floor also addresses leakage at the rear door side roof hinge edge and surrounding area, or you¡¯ll see it recur in future. ? Definitely don¡¯t tackle it yourself.? If it were me, I¡¯d remove the lathwork in the photo, cut out at least a 2¡¯ x 2¡¯ section of the floor at the rear corner, and fit a new sheet of marine grade plywood or equivalent, seal it thoroughly to the adjoining wood floor, reinstall the lathwork, and thoroughly seal the door side rear corner.? It wouldn¡¯t be nearly as extensive (read: expensive) job as a full floor replacement, and would last for years if properly done. ? Good luck,? Dave ? ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡.. ? This is what I found,? everything else seems solid. AC has not been used since I got the trailer. My money is on the wheel well. I think this is beyond me.?I don't have the strength or the tools.? ?
?
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Don DeRyke
Carl
