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OT: Bainbridge 712 resurrection
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Well, it's finally finished. Tha is to all of your help but special thanks to JV and Bill. With all of y'all's help it looks great, functions smoothly, and was a fun refurb. Time to find a new project. I will be getting an old Wade 8a lathe soon. Time to put the saw to work cutting some stock to use in the lathe. :)
Note: I'll be finishing up a doc on the parts, pieces, and sources. Once completed,? I'll upload it here. Hopefully it helps someone in the future.? Cheers! Darren |
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That looks great, I am wondering how you will get on with it having two sets of wheels in contact with the ground whilst it is in use, I would be concerned that it would try making off across the garage if not in use but when loading stock. Let us all know how you find it after giving it a bit of use. |
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Thanks K. I was concerned about that as well. However, that's how I got it so I assumed it was factory installed. If it is a problem I'll either buy some locking casters, fab up some screw jacks, or just take off the left side wheels. On Dec 30, 2018 3:55 AM, "khintegration@... [4x6bandsaw]" <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:
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开云体育A couple of rubber feet work well, which is what my saw came with.
It has a slide out handle, so it can be moved around like a wheel barrow.
I use it out in front of my shop on the concrete often, as 20’ pieces of steel are difficult to maneuver inside.
Being level....is not at all required.
? From: 4x6bandsaw@... on behalf of Darren McCarley darren.mccarley@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...>
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Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 7:19 AM To: 4x6bandsaw@... Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] Re: OT: Bainbridge 712 resurrection ?
Thanks K. I was concerned about that as well. However, that's how I got it so I assumed it was factory installed. If it is a problem I'll either buy some locking casters, fab up some screw jacks, or just take off the left side wheels.
On Dec 30, 2018 3:55 AM, "khintegration@... [4x6bandsaw]" <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:
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I thought about those, as well as using something like flex seal as just a rubber coating. (Multiple coats, as necessary.) However, as you've probably come to realize, I don't do the easy stuff. :) my wife says I'm hard headed. I prefer to think of myself as always looking for a challenge. Honestly, at this point, I'm just looking forward to using the saw and chuck the wheels, if I have too. My stock will be quite small, compared to 20" steel.? One big down side that I've come to realize is that the blade runs away from the drive wheel. Therefore not conducive for vertical use. However, the motor is reversible. I've tried it in reverse and the blade immediately runs off the drive wheel. Time to start tweaking it again so I can have a vertical saw. I believe this can be accomplished as I've found this homemade stand with the same model.? At what point do o consider the turd sufficiently polished? Thanks for the conversation, you help my thinking process and stir my imagination. Happy New Year! Darren
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Shoot, forgot the image of the saw in vertical mode. Darren
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Ralph Hulslander
I like that table, a lot better than the one I have for my 7x12! Ralph On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 2:31 PM Darren McCarley darren.mccarley@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:
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开云体育The wheels are handy. I’d keep ‘em. Nice to be able to move the saw around, if for nothing else, to sweep under it, or when you rearrange the shop, or bring in new toys. ? Only makes sense for me to buy metals in full length pieces or sheets. I can buy steel from the local supplier, cheap, and the freight is literally pennies. Have to buy full pieces however, and pick it up a couple miles down the road since 18-wheelers won’t fit in here. No big deal. A 20’ piece costs less than buying a 6’ piece from online places when you add in the UPS costs. And….they deliver twice a week. Freight on the steel in the pic was $1.75. It’s actually a ‘fuel surcharge’ they divide up to all the customers on the drivers route. And besides….sometimes it’s just nice to work outdoors! ? Sounds like you need to adjust the angle of the idler wheel, to keep the blade on track. Minor tweak. I like that big table. I built a little one for my 5” x 6”….only 12” x 12”. Don’t use it often, so I haven’t thought about making a larger one. ? Bill ? From: 4x6bandsaw@... [mailto:4x6bandsaw@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 11:29 AM To: 4x6bandsaw@... Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] Re: OT: Bainbridge 712 resurrection ? ? I thought about those, as well as using something like flex seal as just a rubber coating. (Multiple coats, as necessary.) However, as you've probably come to realize, I don't do the easy stuff. :) my wife says I'm hard headed. I prefer to think of myself as always looking for a challenge. Honestly, at this point, I'm just looking forward to using the saw and chuck the wheels, if I have too. My stock will be quite small, compared to 20" steel.? One big down side that I've come to realize is that the blade runs away from the drive wheel. Therefore not conducive for vertical use. However, the motor is reversible. I've tried it in reverse and the blade immediately runs off the drive wheel. Time to start tweaking it again so I can have a vertical saw. I believe this can be accomplished as I've found this homemade stand with the same model.? At what point do o consider the turd sufficiently polished? Thanks for the conversation, you help my thinking process and stir my imagination. Happy New Year! Darren On Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 9:32 AM Bill Armstrong bill_1955@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@... wrote:
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开云体育??? ??? ya may think bout swapin that motor with a single
direction motor & put the directional motor on a piece of
equipment that could take advantage of the reverse option ??? ??? animal On 12/30/2018 11:29 AM, Darren McCarley
darren.mccarley@... [4x6bandsaw] wrote:
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Just picked up on the blade running off the drive wheel when vertical cutting. Very odd if it doesn't do that when cutting horizontally.?
4x6's will shuck the blade off the bottom (drive) wheel) when cutting even if it tracks ok unloaded, if the bottom guide is too far forward (bottom rear support roller pushing into the back of the blade). It did it on mine when the bottom rear guide was ~1/4" too far forward.? Probably be the same for your 7x12. What I think happens is the bottom rear guide roller acts as a fulcrum; push the blade in above the roller with the pressure of a cut, and it will bend out below the roller, then?it?comes off the drive wheel. When the blade is tracking properly the rear support rollers (top and bottom) should run?just?clear of the back of the blade, the pressure in the cut will bend the blade back to firmly seat it on the rollers, and the cone on the wheels will be driving the blade into the cut..? At proper tension on a 1/2" wide 10-14TPI blade, it bends up about 0.040".? Don't know what it is on a 3/4" blade, will be less at same guide separation, but more than 0.020" would be my guess. Given that blades are hardly ever dead straight, just hitting and missing the rear rollers is ok.? Don't want them running on the rear rollers all the time. Start with the rear guide rollers not touching the blade, then use the tilt to track the blade on the top (driven) wheel first, and then position the drive wheel on its axle to track the blade on the bottom, then bring the guides in so rear support rollers are?just?not touching - jv |
开云体育That’s a good point! I have a fixture I built for cutting angles. In order to use it for larger diameter tubing, I have to slide the lower blade guide toward the drive wheel, as far and close as it can go. When I do, just running, the blade will track about a 1/8” to ?” off the shoulder, and the vertical bearing in the lower guide. Soon as I start a cut, the blade moves up against both the shoulder and bearing. Doesn’t seem to hurt anything, or effect the cut. ? Bill ? From: 4x6bandsaw@... [mailto:4x6bandsaw@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 10:07 PM To: 4x6bandsaw@... Subject: RE: [4x6bandsaw] Re: OT: Bainbridge 712 resurrection ? ? Just picked up on the blade running off the drive wheel when vertical cutting. Very odd if it doesn't do that when cutting horizontally.? 4x6's will shuck the blade off the bottom (drive) wheel) when cutting even if it tracks ok unloaded, if the bottom guide is too far forward (bottom rear support roller pushing into the back of the blade). It did it on mine when the bottom rear guide was ~1/4" too far forward.? Probably be the same for your 7x12. What I think happens is the bottom rear guide roller acts as a fulcrum; push the blade in above the roller with the pressure of a cut, and it will bend out below the roller, then?it?comes off the drive wheel. When the blade is tracking properly the rear support rollers (top and bottom) should run?just?clear of the back of the blade, the pressure in the cut will bend the blade back to firmly seat it on the rollers, and the cone on the wheels will be driving the blade into the cut..? At proper tension on a 1/2" wide 10-14TPI blade, it bends up about 0.040".? Don't know what it is on a 3/4" blade, will be less at same guide separation, but more than 0.020" would be my guess. Given that blades are hardly ever dead straight, just hitting and missing the rear rollers is ok.? Don't want them running on the rear rollers all the time. Start with the rear guide rollers not touching the blade, then use the tilt to track the blade on the top (driven) wheel first, and then position the drive wheel on its axle to track the blade on the bottom, then bring the guides in so rear support rollers are?just?not touching - jv
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It seems yours moves opposite to mine Bill.?
More twist on the blade makes my blade move toward the rim on a 4x6's wheel (more strongly at the bottom than at the top).?? Retracting your bottom guide will twist the blade more (twists through the same angle over a shorter distance) and your blade moves away from the rim.?? Whatever, twisting the blade definitely affects where the blade rides on the wheel and as long as there's clearance (or at least no pressure) between the blade and the rear support roller, the act of cutting pushes the blade back without any tendency to derail - jv? ?? |
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Well, good news, for me anyway. :) I ran across this 1976 ad on Vintage Machinery.??The ad states the saw can be used in vertical mode! This tells me that the someone in the past either installed a different motor and didn't realize it could be reversed, or had blade tacking issues and their "fix" was to reverse the motor to "push" the blade rather than "pull" it. (To me, the saw was designed to have the blade "pulled" towards the lower drive wheel, rather than be "pushed" by it.) At least with this inferred confirmation, I can move forward with a bit of confidence that I'm at least driving towards the original design of the saw, rather than fighting the design.?
? More tweaking. :) Time to really use the ol'noodle and figure out what else is missing/wrong with this thing once I have the motor turning in the correct direction, causing the blade to run off track. Blade twist, wheel angle, heck, it may even be the blade.? The cool thing? Once I figure this out, the first "pulling" cuts will be used to fab a table for use in horizontal position. Thanks for listening to be babble on, again. :) Darren |
开云体育I have never seen a band saw that has a reversible motor.
All I have been around, the blade travels toward the fixed jaw of the vise. This makes sense if you think about it.
? From: 4x6bandsaw@... on behalf of darren.mccarley@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...>
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Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2019 11:51 AM To: 4x6bandsaw@... Subject: RE: [4x6bandsaw] Re: OT: Bainbridge 712 resurrection ?
Well, good news, for me anyway. :) I ran across this 1976 ad on Vintage Machinery.??The ad states the saw can be used in vertical mode! This tells me that the someone in the past either installed a different motor and didn't realize it could be reversed, or had blade tacking issues and their "fix" was to reverse the motor to "push" the blade rather than "pull" it. (To me, the saw was designed to have the blade "pulled" towards the lower drive wheel, rather than be "pushed" by it.) At least with this inferred confirmation, I can move forward with a bit of confidence that I'm at least driving towards the original design of the saw, rather than fighting the design.? ?
More tweaking. :) Time to really use the ol'noodle and figure out what else is missing/wrong with this thing once I have the motor turning in the correct direction, causing the blade to run off track. Blade twist, wheel angle, heck, it may even be the
blade.? The cool thing? Once I figure this out, the first "pulling" cuts will be used to fab a table for use in horizontal position.
Thanks for listening to be babble on, again. :)
Darren
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Bill,
We're both assuming the motor is original. The reversing is in the motor itself. I have to switch 2 wires after the hot and neutral connections. Weird stuff, for sure. Or..... could I have installed a gear backwards...... not possible... the worm gear has a pin hole on only 1 end and the drive gear wouldn't allow the gear box cover to close. Plus, I think the drive gear is nearly straight cut..... Maybe I reversed the hot and neutral wires..... (Little AC humor there...).
Darren
Get
On Jan 1, 2019, at 2:30 PM, "Bill Armstrong bill_1955@... [4x6bandsaw]" <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote: ? |
开云体育Well....again, I don’t know why they would have used a reversible motor on a band saw. Maybe they cost less, or maybe they used the same motor on different machines, and set the rotation to suit the app. No matter since it’s going
the right direction now.
He he..... yeah....flip the hot & neutral!
That’s like flipping the fan on your car engine to make it blow the other direction!
:)
? From: 4x6bandsaw@... on behalf of Darren McCarley darren.mccarley@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...>
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Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2019 3:34 PM To: 4x6bandsaw@... Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] Re: OT: Bainbridge 712 resurrection ?
Bill,
We're both assuming the motor is original. The reversing is in the motor itself. I have to switch 2 wires after the hot and neutral connections. Weird stuff, for sure. Or..... could I have installed a gear backwards...... not possible... the
worm gear has a pin hole on only 1 end and the drive gear wouldn't allow the gear box cover to close. Plus, I think the drive gear is nearly straight cut..... Maybe I reversed the hot and neutral wires..... (Little AC humor there...).
Darren
Get
On Jan 1, 2019, at 2:30 PM, "Bill Armstrong bill_1955@... [4x6bandsaw]" <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:
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开云体育As I’ve written before (but maybe not here?), all Single Phase Capacitor Start AC motors are reversible.? Those that appear not to be just don’t have the necessary wires run out and require partial disassembly to reverse.? ? Generally, if a manufacturer is making a bunch of units that DON’T require reversing the motor and are buying the motors from a manufacturer instead of a distributor, they’ll buy a motor that turns in the correct direction and can’t easily be changed because it is a little bit cheaper.? If a wholesaler or retailer is buying motors to stock for resale as motors, they’ll buy ones that can be reversed by just interchanging or swapping wires.? This costs a few cents more but cuts their required stockage in half.? So if you find something like a band saw with a “reversible” motor, it was probably either a low volume production or a replacement motor. ? Robert Downs ? From: 4x6bandsaw@... [mailto:4x6bandsaw@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2019 07:50 To: 4x6bandsaw@...; 4x6bandsaw@... Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] Re: OT: Bainbridge 712 resurrection ? Well....again, I don’t know why they would have used a reversible motor on a band saw. Maybe they cost less, or maybe they used the same motor on different machines, and set the rotation to suit the app. No matter since it’s going the right direction now. ? He he..... yeah....flip the hot & neutral! That’s like flipping the fan on your car engine to make it blow the other direction! :) ? ? From: 4x6bandsaw@... on behalf of Darren McCarley darren.mccarley@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...> ? ? Bill, We're both assuming the motor is original. The reversing is in the motor itself. I have to switch 2 wires after the hot and neutral connections. Weird stuff, for sure. Or..... could I have installed a gear backwards...... not possible... the worm gear has a pin hole on only 1 end and the drive gear wouldn't allow the gear box cover to close. Plus, I think the drive gear is nearly straight cut..... Maybe I reversed the hot and neutral wires..... (Little AC humor there...). Darren Get On Jan 1, 2019, at 2:30 PM, "Bill Armstrong bill_1955@... [4x6bandsaw]" <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote: ? I have never seen a band saw that has a reversible motor. All I have been around, the blade travels toward the fixed jaw of the vise. This makes sense if you think about it. ? ? From: 4x6bandsaw@... on behalf of darren.mccarley@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...> ? ? Well, good news, for me anyway. :) I ran across this 1976 ad on Vintage Machinery.??The ad states the saw can be used in vertical mode! This tells me that the someone in the past either installed a different motor and didn't realize it could be reversed, or had blade tacking issues and their "fix" was to reverse the motor to "push" the blade rather than "pull" it. (To me, the saw was designed to have the blade "pulled" towards the lower drive wheel, rather than be "pushed" by it.) At least with this inferred confirmation, I can move forward with a bit of confidence that I'm at least driving towards the original design of the saw, rather than fighting the design.? ? More tweaking. :) Time to really use the ol'noodle and figure out what else is missing/wrong with this thing once I have the motor turning in the correct direction, causing the blade to run off track. Blade twist, wheel angle, heck, it may even be the blade.? The cool thing? Once I figure this out, the first "pulling" cuts will be used to fab a table for use in horizontal position. Thanks for listening to be babble on, again. :) Darren |
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Robert,
Didn't know that, thanks for the info. The funny part about this saw is that both of those situations may have bee. True! :)
Darren
Get
On Jan 4, 2019, at 2:04 AM, "'Robert Downs' wa5cab@... [4x6bandsaw]" <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote: ? |