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I must be missing something here.? Why do you care if the blade is square to the table??
Unless you are using a fence or jig do you really care, and if you are using one of them, why not just build it square to the blade?
?
?
?
R James (Jim) Klessig P.E. | Senior Power Systems Engineer |
Electrical Reliability Services, VERTIV
jim.klessig@...,
jim_klessig@...
1876 Gwin Rd, Mckinleyville | CA | 95519 | USA
|
Cell (707) 497-9611 |
eFax
614-410-0653
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of John Vreede
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 3:46 AM
To: [email protected] Group Moderators < [email protected]>
Subject: [ExternalEmail] Re: [4x6bandsaw] Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
?
If you clamp a thin flat 6" rule to the side of the blade-body (above the teeth!) as in 'Adjusting the bearing guide seats...' bottom of pg14 of the Wilton 5x8 manual in the Files section (called
m_3130.pdf), that will give you the direction on the blade.? A spring type clothes peg will do but the rule has to be very flat.
To mark the table screw positions, get a couple of 1/4"x20 UNC setscrews?(pointed is best but cone point will do) and screw them into the mounting?holes point up and leave protruding 10~20thou.
?
Position the table so the edge is parallel to the blade direction shown by the clipped on steel rule
Then tap the table over the set screws to leave a centre punch?mark to drill into?
In fact, do one hole first.? Mark, drill and countersink and fasten the table lightly on the guide bracket, then line it up with the clipped-on rule, before marking the second hole - jv
?
On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 7:30 PM tonydi_499 <tonydi@...> wrote:
I actually did have a "reverse slot" table but recently went back to the OE table because I am starting to change blades more often.? It had the same issue but that's probably because I used the OE table as a template.?
I've seen a table just like Kerry's and really love the idea of the insert.? The only problem I have is envisioning how I can make the table so that it's aligned.? I want to use some sort of fence at times so the table needs to be perfectly squared.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed and may contain confidential and privileged information protected by law. If you received this e-mail
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On Thursday, April 15, 2021, 12:41 PM, Jim.Klessig@... <jim.klessig@...> wrote:
I must be missing something here.? Why do you care if the blade is square to the table??
Unless you are using a fence or jig do you really care, and if you are using one of them, why not just build it square to the blade?
?
?
?
R James (Jim) Klessig P.E. | Senior Power Systems Engineer |
Electrical Reliability Services, VERTIV
jim.klessig@...,
jim_klessig@...
1876 Gwin Rd, Mckinleyville | CA | 95519 | USA
|
Cell (707) 497-9611 |
eFax
614-410-0653
?
?
If you clamp a thin flat 6" rule to the side of the blade-body (above the teeth!) as in 'Adjusting the bearing guide seats...' bottom of pg14 of the Wilton 5x8 manual in the Files section (called
m_3130.pdf), that will give you the direction on the blade.? A spring type clothes peg will do but the rule has to be very flat.
To mark the table screw positions, get a couple of 1/4"x20 UNC setscrews?(pointed is best but cone point will do) and screw them into the mounting?holes point up and leave protruding 10~20thou.
?
Position the table so the edge is parallel to the blade direction shown by the clipped on steel rule
Then tap the table over the set screws to leave a centre punch?mark to drill into?
In fact, do one hole first.? Mark, drill and countersink and fasten the table lightly on the guide bracket, then line it up with the clipped-on rule, before marking the second hole - jv
?
On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 7:30 PM tonydi_499 <tonydi@...> wrote:
I actually did have a "reverse slot" table but recently went back to the OE table because I am starting to change blades more often.? It had the same issue but that's probably because I used the OE table as a template.?
I've seen a table just like Kerry's and really love the idea of the insert.? The only problem I have is envisioning how I can make the table so that it's aligned.? I want to use some sort of fence at times so the table needs to be perfectly squared.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed and may contain confidential and privileged information protected by law. If you received this e-mail
in error, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the e-mail is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies from your system.
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Me three!
It’s what I mentioned at the get-go, since my saw has that out-of-squareness too, and….I don’t care, it doesn’t bother me.
If it did, it’s easy enough to fix!
?
Other Bill
?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of John H via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 2:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ExternalEmail] Re: [4x6bandsaw] Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
?
I agree with you.
On Thursday, April 15, 2021, 12:41 PM, Jim.Klessig@... <jim.klessig@...> wrote:
I must be missing something here.? Why do you care if the blade is square to the table??
Unless you are using a fence or jig do you really care, and if you are using one of them, why not just build it square to the blade?
?
?
?
R James (Jim) Klessig P.E. | Senior Power Systems Engineer |
Electrical Reliability Services, VERTIV
jim.klessig@...,
jim_klessig@...
1876 Gwin Rd, Mckinleyville | CA | 95519 | USA
|
Cell (707) 497-9611 |
eFax
614-410-0653
?
?
If you clamp a thin flat 6" rule to the side of the blade-body (above the teeth!) as in 'Adjusting the bearing guide seats...' bottom of pg14 of the Wilton 5x8 manual in the Files
section (called m_3130.pdf), that will give you the direction on the blade.? A spring type clothes peg will do but the rule has to be very flat.
To mark the table screw positions, get a couple of 1/4"x20 UNC setscrews?(pointed is best but cone point will do) and screw them into the mounting?holes point up and leave protruding
10~20thou. ?
Position the table so the edge is parallel to the blade direction shown by the clipped on steel rule
Then tap the table over the set screws to leave a centre punch?mark to drill into?
In fact, do one hole first.? Mark, drill and countersink and fasten the table lightly on the guide bracket, then line it up with the clipped-on rule, before marking the second
hole - jv
?
On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 7:30 PM tonydi_499 <tonydi@...> wrote:
I actually did have a "reverse slot" table but recently went back to the OE table because I am starting to change blades more often.? It had the same issue but that's probably because I used the OE table as a template.?
I've seen a table just like Kerry's and really love the idea of the insert.? The only problem I have is envisioning how I can make the table so that it's aligned.? I want to use some sort of fence at times so the table needs to be perfectly squared.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed and may contain confidential and privileged information protected by law. If you
received this e-mail in error, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the e-mail is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies from your system.
|
As I said, I do want to use a fence and that's a ton easier if the table is square to the blade.
And @Other Bill......it's definitely not that easy to fix using either the OE range of adjustment or even after modifying the guides. If I were still using this saw in the horizontal position it would make very crooked cuts.
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On 4/16/2021 3:07 AM, tonydi_499 wrote: As I said, I do want to use a fence and that's a ton easier if the table is square to the blade.
And @Other Bill......it's definitely not that easy to fix using either the OE range of adjustment or even after modifying the guides. If I were still using this saw in the horizontal position it would make very crooked cuts.
You mentioned in an earlier post that both eccentric blade guide rollers were on one guide . My saw has one on each guide bar , and I'm surprised that no one else has commented on this . That in itself may be a root cause of your problem . I'd suggest you swap one of those bearings to the other guide bar , and make sure both eccentrics are on the same side of the blade . -- Snag In 1775, the British demanded we give them our guns. We shot them.
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My saw blade is adjusted to where it cuts straight in the horizontal position. That is where I do alost all my cutting.
That is what it is built to do.
If I wanted to make my table perfectly square to the blade, since it’s not due to the location of the two holes in the guide, then I would have to ‘move’ one mounting hole in
the table where it attaches.
Then could be done, by milling a hole into a short slot in the table. Then I could square it, when I install it. If blade adjustment changed the position of the blade, it wouldn’t
matter.
?
That’s pretty easy.
?
Other Bill
?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of tonydi_499
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 1:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ExternalEmail] Re: [4x6bandsaw] Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
?
As I said, I do want to use a fence and that's a ton easier if the table is square to the blade.
And @Other Bill......it's definitely not that easy to fix using either the OE range of adjustment or even after modifying the guides. If I were still using this saw in the horizontal position it would make very crooked cuts.
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Well you could look at it a different way. The table IS square to the blade, it is just the wrong shape.
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Some saws have eccentrics on both sides of the blade like my old UC115 (and I think Tony's) and others have them only on the outside like yours. Better made ones normally have only one, where not so good have two eccentrics (Bean counters like that, since have only one sku, and extra level of adjustability means it can cope with wider manufacturing tolerances)? - jv
On Fri, 16 Apr 2021, 11:54 pm Terry Coombs, < snagone@...> wrote: On 4/16/2021 3:07 AM, tonydi_499 wrote:
> As I said, I do want to use a fence and that's a ton easier if the table
> is square to the blade.
>
> And @Other Bill......it's definitely not that easy to fix using either
> the OE range of adjustment or even after modifying the guides. If I were
> still using this saw in the horizontal position it would make very
> crooked cuts.
>
? ?You mentioned in an earlier post that both eccentric blade guide
rollers were on one guide . My saw has one on each guide bar , and I'm
surprised that no one else has commented on this . That in itself may be
a root cause of your problem . I'd suggest you swap one of those
bearings to the other guide bar , and make sure both eccentrics are on
the same side of the blade .
--
Snag
In 1775, the British demanded we give them our guns.
We shot them.
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On 4/16/2021 8:27 PM, John Vreede wrote: Some saws have eccentrics on both sides of the blade like my old UC115 (and I think Tony's) and others have them only on the outside like yours.
Better made ones normally have only one, where not so good have two eccentrics (Bean counters like that, since have only one sku, and extra level of adjustability means it can cope with wider manufacturing tolerances)? - jv Why would they use 2 eccentrics on one guide bar and none on the other ? I thought perhaps some previous owner might have mixed them up and put one on the wrong guide bar . -- Snag In 1775, the British demanded we give them our guns. We shot them.
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You're right there is no reason to have 2 on one guide and none on the other. Tony's photos showed both guides adjusted snug, and you can't do that with no eccentrics so I assume there are eccentrics on both sides of both guides - jv
On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 2:36 PM Terry Coombs < snagone@...> wrote: On 4/16/2021 8:27 PM, John Vreede wrote:
> Some saws have eccentrics on both sides of the blade like my old UC115
> (and I think Tony's) and others have them only on the outside like yours.
> Better made ones normally have only one, where not so good have two
> eccentrics (Bean counters like that, since have only one sku, and extra
> level of adjustability means it can cope with wider manufacturing
> tolerances)? - jv
? ?Why would they use 2 eccentrics on one guide bar and none on the
other ? I thought perhaps some previous owner might have mixed them up
and put one on the wrong guide bar .
--
Snag
In 1775, the British demanded we give them our guns.
We shot them.
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On 4/16/2021 10:37 PM, John Vreede wrote: You're right there is no reason to have 2 on one guide and none on the other.
Oops , I went back over his posts , he said there were 2 on one and one on the other . -- Snag In 1775, the British demanded we give them our guns. We shot them.
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Exactly.? I don't particularly like that arrangement because if you aren't careful you could get the "proper" clearance adjustment but be in a less than ideal situation.? I know because I was concentrating on clearance and got everything just right and tightened up and just happened to look back from the front side of the blade and saw that one bearing was high and the other was much lower.? It would have forced the blade to make kinda an S-turn through those bearings.?
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Well you could look at it a different way. The table IS square to
the blade, it is just the wrong shape.
?I have a benchtop mini-mill with a rotary table for milling
curves or drilling out precise bolt hole circles and such.
So my idea would be: Instead of drilling two counter sunk holes
in the upright cutting table for the two mounting screws that hold
the table down, I would mill out two 'counter sunk" curved slots
there instead, sort of like parenthesis. I.E. - Curved mounting slots
instead of holes, ( and ) instead of? * and *. Lightly snug the
table's mounting screws into their curved slots, and then bump /
rotate / adjust the table until it is square with how the blade
wants to cut, and then tighten them down firmly.? DONE. I suppose
swarf would want to collect down in those little curved mounting
slots, but if you really wanted a table that is square to the
blade, in order to be able to run a nice cutting guide fence and
such, then a simple chip brush and a shop vac would do for any
minor additional clean up.
?A possible advancement of some very limited use from time to
time, would be the then built in ability to purposely rotate the
cutting table with it's guide fence to some carefully measured and
set angle off of square, like to perhaps cut one side at a say, 0
to maybe 30 degree angle from the other. (Why you would want to do
that I dunno, but rarely is not never. :-)
?Of course, instead of two curved mounting slots for adjusting
the entire table, you could drill / mill just one mounting slot in
the end of the cutting table's fence (the fence's curved mounting
slot would be out towards the end of the fence in front of the
blade), in order to then adjust only the guide fence until
it is square with the blade. Same difference in the end as far as
cutting straight lines.
?Just thinking out loud. Food for thought. :-)
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I think you could leave one hole where it is currently placed and locate the second hole pretty close by removing the screw, locating the table where you want it, and transfer punching through the blade guide block to the back to locate your new hole. ? If you can’t get a transfer punch in there, grind a point on a bolt and thread it through the back to mark the table. ?If the vertical orientation is permanent. Maybe use some JB weld to fill the old hole in your table.
I really haven’t thought about this too much, but try to do the simplest fix first. ?You just need to rotate your table.
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Jim, Your observation is brilliant! In this rare case, two wrongs can make a right. I built a "square" that goes on my table. It is out of square such that the blade of my square is parallel to my saw cut when the guide of the square is in contact with the front lip:  Thanks, Rick
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Run that one by me again Rick. Sounds like a hammer with a rubber handle to knock around corners - jv
[Edited Message Follows]
Jim,
Your observation is brilliant! In this rare case, two wrongs can make a right. I built a "square" that goes on my table. It is out of square such that the blade of my square is parallel to my saw cut when the guide of the square is in contact with the front lip:
Thanks,
Rick
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John,
Maybe this is clearer:??
Rick
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I don’t know about brilliant.? Just another way to define the problem, but thank you.
?
?
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Rick Sparber via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 6:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ExternalEmail] Re: [4x6bandsaw] Out of ideas to fix blade alignment
?
[Edited Message Follows]
Jim,
Your observation is brilliant! In this rare case, two wrongs can make a right. I built a "square" that goes on my table. It is out of square such that the blade of my square is parallel to my saw cut when the guide of the square is in contact with the front
lip:
Thanks,
Rick
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed and may contain confidential and privileged information protected by law. If you received this e-mail
in error, any review, use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the e-mail is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies from your system.
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Well, just to tie up this thread I finally finished my project to align the table to the blade and build a fence. I'm really pleased with how this all turned out.? The first test cut was some aluminum and on an 8" long cut the thickness of the finished piece was only off by .005" from one end to the other!? Up till now I've just hand guided cuts along a scribed line and even trying really hard to keep it perfectly on the line, when I stick the part in my mill I always end up having to cut .025" or more to clean it up.? So this will be much better as I won't have to be so careful in keeping the stock straight through a long cut and less milling required when I'm done. I ended up stealing some ideas posted in this thread (and in the other thread I started) and made a plate to mount to the bearing guide.? That allowed me to put in a bolt pattern for the table that was offset enough to compensate for not being able to align the blade with the original mounting hole.? I made the table with a slot and a cover to go over the slot to facilitate blade changes without removing the table and to reduce the gap around the blade itself.? I ended up taking my blade brush off the saw and modifying the bracket so it could attach to the slot cover. So now it's two nuts to pull the cover and the blade is free to come off! I made the fence from some 80/20 and put a steel plate on the front side to keep stock from gouging up the 80/20. Like I said, I can't be more pleased with the results and I owe it all to everyone here who offered suggestions and those who posted pictures of their ideas over the years.? Thanks so much!   
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0.005" in 8" end to end is very accurate. Really nice work - jv
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John Vreede