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Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
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As the topic says, I am a bit curious why people need a small bandsaw to cutting something by themselves? As i know most of our bandsaw sold to US market and lots of DIY brands machine also do as well, can anyone share why people need this kind of machine? like 4x6 small bandsaw or hacksaw...? In Taiwan, people doesn't do this very often, is it because high labor charge or any other reason cause people in US like to do it by themselves?
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You ask the question as if the 4x6 saw is the most industrious tools us DIY guys have in our garages.? If someone asked me what kind of tools I have the saw would be low enough on the list I may forget it.? In addition to the 4x6 saw, I have a mini-milling machine, a 10x22 Grizzly metal lathe (which I converted to 3 phase with variable frequency drive), a couple welders, a Quincy QT-5 air compressor, etc. A couple examples: Years ago I bought a project truck without a bumper.? I made a bumper for it. When the jet-ski trailer rusted through, instead of buying another one that would rust through again (because they're made out of thin box tubing), I made a much better one out of C-channel with a folding trailer tongue, etc.?? The types of things I use the tools for would be too much time and hassle (and money) to hire done.?? For me its not (just) cost of hiring something done.? Its that doing it myself is the only way it will happen. Another example:? I'm annoyed that every time I grab my wheelbarrow the tire is flat.? I could replace the tire or tube, but it doesn't get used much and I'll be fighting with that tire again before long.? I also wish it had two wheels up front for more stability.? I looked at all the two wheel new wheelbarrows for sale in my area, they all have inflatable tires.? So if I buy new, I'll still be fighting with flat tires.? So instead I'll order two solid/no-flat rubber wheels from Amazon and make a new axle on the lathe & band saw.? The time investment won't be much more than assembling a new one, the cost will be far less, and it will be better than what I can buy. Keep in mind there is a selection bias in your survey results.? The people on a list like this (or the people interested enough in the saw to pay any attention to your survey) will more likely be the people who tinker and improve things.? They'll be the more "hard core" users.? The owners of these saws who look more like a generic homeowner / DIY person probably won't be captured in your survey. -Joe On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 8:26 AM Henry <rongfu@...> wrote: As the topic says, I am a bit curious why people need a small bandsaw to cutting something by themselves? As i know most of our bandsaw sold to US market and lots of DIY brands machine also do as well, can anyone share why people need this kind of machine? like 4x6 small bandsaw or hacksaw...? In Taiwan, people doesn't do this very often, is it because high labor charge or any other reason cause people in US like to do it by themselves? |
开云体育My wife and I have a small company and we started adding more and larger tools to our shop because of the very high costs, long wait, and sometimes questionable work when we ordered from outside vendors.So now we've move most production capacity into our business.? We're using our upcoming move to upgrade and expand our workshop. So, from our small business view:? COST.? Time = money.? Quality = money.? And, of course Money = money. On 5/21/20 6:26 AM, Henry wrote:
As the topic says, I am a bit curious why people need a small bandsaw to cutting something by themselves? As i know most of our bandsaw sold to US market and lots of DIY brands machine also do as well, can anyone share why people need this kind of machine? like 4x6 small bandsaw or hacksaw...? In Taiwan, people doesn't do this very often, is it because high labor charge or any other reason cause people in US like to do it by themselves? |
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On 5/21/2020 6:26 AM, Henry wrote:
cause people in US like to do it by themselves?Perhaps several reasons. First, and often, the design or product you want simply does not exist in the outside world. You have some special need and the only way to solve it is to make it yourself. Second, similar to above, you might find some fabrication shop willing to make what you need, but the hourly cost for design and testing would be astronomical. No incentive for the fabricator because he is only going to sell ONE unit after all that effort. As you know, the major cost for design and fabrication all comes with the first unit. Making another ninety-nine is cheap and easy. Third, there is pleasure and joy in a fabricating a unique project and doing it well. For many, it is mental and emotional therapy away from routine office work. I often find myself spending hours to produce some part or tool that I could possibly buy for $4. The task time is not 'lost'. It is just an investment toward inner peace. Patrick Hayes Fremont CA |
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donnygadee
Perhaps space is a factor. If you live where you can have a home workshop you are more likely to have larger tools. Might that be relevant?
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On 21 May 2020 16:36:21 BST, Patrick Hayes <pehayes@...> wrote: On 5/21/2020 6:26 AM, Henry wrote:cause people in US like to do it by themselves? |
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I bought mine used. It's one of the handiest pieces of equipment I have. I just do DIY, nothing for money but don't know how I'd function without it. I have at least 6 RA grinders, a Sawzall, jig saws, a hacksaw, and a Millwaukee Portaband and none of them replaces my 4x6 or does the job it will do. I don't have a metal chop saw but have no desire to get one. The 4x6 is very accurate and precise, quieter, doesn't spray metal dust and you can put a piece of stock in it, start it cutting and go about your other business.
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开云体育As joe mentions, there is going to definitely be a selection bias in the responses you receive.
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MOST people in the US, do not want, or need, a band saw (or power hacksaw). But you will not receive responses from them.
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I would imagine that the market for this sort of saw is really two segments, one is the home hobby machinist / craftsman that likes to make stuff either out of necessity, or a desire to create.? The second ( and I believe smaller) segment is the small
business that has an occasional need to cut metal stock, but that can not justify, or doesn’t have the space for, a more “professional grade” machine. They may only need the capability every now and then, but when they do need it, they need it NOW.? There is
probably a significant overlap between these two groups.
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I believe this “.io” group, is largely confined to that first market segment, but I know there are a few at least of the second.
The need for this capability however is common to a LOT of hobbies, and because of this all of those hobbies intersect in this newsgroup.
Many of these people do not have the capability to do a complete 3d design process and end up with a finished part drawing,
that could be taken to an outside fabricator, and as a result? we might go through several design iterations.
These are hobbies, often on a shoestring budget, and we couldn’t afford to take to an outside fabricator.
Perhaps equally important, we probably do not want to.
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As to the question you raise hat I paraphrase as? “why People in the US do this, and people in Taiwan don’t”?
This assumes something I do not believe to be true.
I KNOW for a fact that people in Taiwan do tinker with things.
That fact that there is (or was, thanks Covid…) a Taipei Maker fair, indicates that people in Taiwan do this.
It may not be as large a segment of the population there, I do not know.
I think one thing that drives the size of that segment here in the US,? is the space available to do it in.
You are not going to have a workshop if you do not have the space.
A significant portion of the population in the US is suburban or rural.? Most urban dwellers will not have the space.
And while I think of it there is another market segment I forgot, one that addresses the urban dweller, the “Maker Space” type places.
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And to all of these people, a durable, inexpensive (but not cheap) tool that fits many goals, is free of un-needed “bells and whistles” but that is hackable / tinkerable, so that you can add the specific “bell or whistle” you want, is pure gold.
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I purchased mine, some 20+ years ago, USED at a “flea market”, with no stand and without the adjustable stop, but otherwise complete.
Other than adding a (Good) stand and a (for me) ergonomically appropriate height, adding tan adjustable stop, replacing the belt once,
the blade twice, and the motor once, I have done very little to it.
I use it infrequently, but when I do use it I mostly cut 10 or so sections of 1” or 1.25” bar stock, and THAT would be no fun at all with a hacksaw.
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" It is just an investment toward inner peace "
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??? ??? ? eloquently ? said Patrick ??? ??? ??? animal On 5/21/2020 8:36 AM, Patrick Hayes wrote:
On 5/21/2020 6:26 AM, Henry wrote:cause people in US like to do it by themselves?Perhaps several reasons. |
开云体育I came to own mine as part of a package deal including a Logan lathe, enco 6x26 mill, all kinds of bits and cutters, and a few other small power tools. All for $1200. Couldn’t turn it down!!Cleaned the cutoff saw first and use it most of all. Now I don’t have to put a metal blade on my radial arm saw to cut metal (not the safest!!).
I mainly like making what I can’t buy for improvements or repairs to my equipment or making my own stuff. Basically being resourceful, creative, and self reliant.?
I’m an engineer by profession. As my girlfriend says “It hasn’t been designed right until I’ve redesigned it!” Sent from From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Henry <rongfu@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 9:26 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: [4x6bandsaw] Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY? ?
As the topic says, I am a bit curious why people need a small bandsaw
to cutting something by themselves? As i know most of our bandsaw sold to US market and lots of DIY brands machine also do as well, can anyone share why people need this kind of machine? like 4x6 small bandsaw or hacksaw...? In Taiwan, people doesn't do this
very often, is it because high labor charge or any other reason cause people in US like to do it by themselves?
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In addition to what others have said, you have to remember that the US is huge compared to Taiwan.? Most farmers have some machining capability because when something breaks, they need it fixed NOW.? The closest machine shop, metals supplier or fabricator might be 100 miles away and not be open on the weekend.?? I've been building and repairing things my entire life, and the most laborious part was always cutting metal with a hacksaw.? When I found my 4x6 at a garage sale for $25, I couldn't resist.? In retrospect, I don't know how I lasted so long without one!? Would you rather cut a 2" steel rod by hand, or let the saw do it while you go make a sandwich?? I can't imagine how much more I might have more I might have built and learned if I had the saw 40 years ago. -Dave (engineer, not a farmer, but I know the mindset well)
On Thursday, May 21, 2020, 06:26:22 AM PDT, Henry <rongfu@...> wrote:
As the topic says, I am a bit curious why people need a small bandsaw to cutting something by themselves? As i know most of our bandsaw sold to US market and lots of DIY brands machine also do as well, can anyone share why people need this kind of machine? like 4x6 small bandsaw or hacksaw...? In Taiwan, people doesn't do this very often, is it because high labor charge or any other reason cause people in US like to do it by themselves?
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vreededesign
You've hit a nerve here Henry, judging by the length of the answers!
Don't think its strictly an American thing.? All the reasons people have given so far apply in NZ as well and by extension Canada and Australia.? a) Geographic isolation breeds self reliance and a higher proportion of the people have to be self reliant. (If its going to get fixed, there is only me). This probably applies to Indonesia, India and most places in Africa and South America too! b) Reasonably prosperous so have some disposable income to spend on things they want rather than things they need. (this opens up European countries).? Only Jerry has answered that he needed a 4x6, all the rest of us just wanted one. c) Finding meaning in your life when jobs have less meaning than they used to, or are so stressful you have to relax some way. Mathew Crawford's book 'Shop class as Soul-craft' says it pretty well.? Harmony, Inner peace. This applies in most Westernised economies, probably less so where people live closer to the edge of real needs like food shelter safety etc d) Engineering attracts 'Can do' people. Its either inherent, or (like me) someone (my dad) shows them early in life that they can make stuff they want (why I started doing it), or make stuff no-one else makes (why my son does it).? Why a do people buy a 4x6 is slightly different topic. If you fall into one of the above categories, then I think people specifically buy a 4x6?because 1) If you make things out of metal you have to cut it, all machines are at heart labour saving devices.? 4x6 is one of the best.? Next to the lathe and mill, it's the 3rd most used power tool in my workshop. 2) Its so versatile - horizontal and vertical bandsaw in one tool.? Cut straight, cut curves, angle cutting and able to customise the workholding for variety of jobs that need to be done in DIY shop, that production shops just don't do.? 3) 1/2"? blade 4x6 is the best metal-cutting saw for DIY/homeshop, with the best range of blades for whatever cutting you want to do.? Better than chop saws (too noisy & dirty).? Better than 7x12 or 9x12 (cant get fine tooth blades (high TPI)?to cut thin/small stuff most DIY shops do & blades too wide to cut curves).? Better than a cold-saw or reciprocating hacksaw (not versatile enough + too big footprint and/or space requirement) 4) Its one of the cheaper alternatives for doing the sort of cutting we do. Its biggest drawback in my opinion is that its a pain-in-the-ass to setup and keep cutting? properly - in big part, that's why the 4x6 group exists! - jv ? |
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Dave Hallikainen
OK, I will bite.? To me the question should be why wouldn't you have one?? When I grew up people still repaired things, I still do.? I am suspicious of people who don't have a shop. Not having a shop is like being neutered.? If you are not one of those guys who wear women's pants why wouldn't you have a metal cutting bandsaw? People ask me what I make in my shop when they see it and I tell them "Whatever I want".? Currently I only have a small space after downsizing some.? I have a blacksmithing area with a coal and gas forge 300lb Haybudden?anvil, power hammer, fly press, etc.? For metal cutting I have a 4x6, a portaband, a power hacksaw, a great big old manual shear, and an abrasive?chop saw.? I use the 4x6 and portaband most.? As far as machinery goes I have a vertical knee mill, a horizontal mill, a mill drill, a metal lathe, a belt grinder and other various grinders.? I sharpen my own tooling so I have a tool and cutter grinder and a carbide grinder.? For woodwork I have two lathes, a table saw, band saw, belt sander and a bunch of other stuff.? For welding I have oxy?acetylene, tig, mig and stick. Over the years I have renovated a bunch of "fixer" homes (I am a slow learner in addition to being a tight?wad).? I make a lot of my own hardware because I would be embarrassed to use the junk sold in the big box stores.? Besides that, going to a big box store is just too weird these days with everyone wearing masks and scurrying around like cornered rodents.? I have even been making a lot of my own bolts lately just to avoid interacting with the?scurrying rodents. I know I am a bit of a weirdo but I have never bought into the "shut up and buy" world of disposable junk.? A lot of my equipment is over 100 years old.? I make a lot of parts to keep those old machines running.? I enjoy making stuff but I hate the word "maker". Dave |
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I resemble that. Leon Robinson ?? K5JLR Political Correctness is a Political Disease. Politicians and Diapers should be changed often and for the same reasons.
On Thursday, May 21, 2020, 12:25:47 PM CDT, Gasafixer Gasafixer <bchubbwindsor@...> wrote:
I came to own mine as part of a package deal including a Logan lathe, enco 6x26 mill, all kinds of bits and cutters, and a few other small power tools. All for $1200. Couldn’t turn it down!!
Cleaned the cutoff saw first and use it most of all. Now I don’t have to put a metal blade on my radial arm saw to cut metal (not the safest!!).
I mainly like making what I can’t buy for improvements or repairs to my equipment or making my own stuff. Basically being resourceful, creative, and self reliant.?
I’m an engineer by profession. As my girlfriend says “It hasn’t been designed right until I’ve redesigned it!” Sent from From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Henry <rongfu@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 9:26 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: [4x6bandsaw] Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY? ?
As the topic says, I am a bit curious why people need a small bandsaw
to cutting something by themselves? As i know most of our bandsaw sold to US market and lots of DIY brands machine also do as well, can anyone share why people need this kind of machine? like 4x6 small bandsaw or hacksaw...? In Taiwan, people doesn't do this
very often, is it because high labor charge or any other reason cause people in US like to do it by themselves?
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开云体育
Why do we buy tools ?
Generally for one of two reasons :
a) it is critical to performing a particular task that we have in mind, or
b) we just plain 'fancy' having one with no particular task in mind? (much like those who buy new clothes because the old ones are out of fashion)
If the former, then once that tool has done its job it has earned its keep and is effectively 'free' thereafter.? From then on, every time it is used it's giving back the work it does for no charge? -? Life is bliss
If the latter, then every time you wish to use the tool you are effectively paying to hire it.? It came at a cost and that cost, including wear, tear and depreciation must be paid for.??Those
who borrow tools rarely seem to appreciate that fact.?
And apart from that, tool owners and users are simply exercising that same, ingenuity, desire and enthusiasm that dragged mankind out of the cave
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Henry <rongfu@...>
Sent: 21 May 2020 13:26 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: [4x6bandsaw] Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY? ?
As the topic says, I am a bit curious why people need a small bandsaw
to cutting something by themselves? As i know most of our bandsaw sold to US market and lots of DIY brands machine also do as well, can anyone share why people need this kind of machine? like 4x6 small bandsaw or hacksaw...? In Taiwan, people doesn't do this
very often, is it because high labor charge or any other reason cause people in US like to do it by themselves?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Dave Hallikainen <dhallikainen@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:39 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY? ?
OK, I will bite.? To me the question should be why wouldn't you have one?? When I grew up people still repaired things, I still do.? I am suspicious of people who don't have a shop. Not having a shop is like being neutered.? If you are not one
of those guys who wear women's pants why wouldn't you have a metal cutting bandsaw?
People ask me what I make in my shop when they see it and I tell them "Whatever I want".? Currently I only have a small space after downsizing some.? I have a blacksmithing area with a coal and gas forge 300lb Haybudden?anvil, power hammer, fly press,
etc.? For metal cutting I have a 4x6, a portaband, a power hacksaw, a great big old manual shear, and an abrasive?chop saw.? I use the 4x6 and portaband most.? As far as machinery goes I have a vertical knee mill, a horizontal mill, a mill drill, a metal lathe,
a belt grinder and other various grinders.? I sharpen my own tooling so I have a tool and cutter grinder and a carbide grinder.? For woodwork I have two lathes, a table saw, band saw, belt sander and a bunch of other stuff.? For welding I have oxy?acetylene,
tig, mig and stick.
Over the years I have renovated a bunch of "fixer" homes (I am a slow learner in addition to being a tight?wad).? I make a lot of my own hardware because I would be embarrassed to use the junk sold in the big box stores.? Besides that, going to a big box
store is just too weird these days with everyone wearing masks and scurrying around like cornered rodents.? I have even been making a lot of my own bolts lately just to avoid interacting with the?scurrying rodents.
I know I am a bit of a weirdo but I have never bought into the "shut up and buy" world of disposable junk.? A lot of my equipment is over 100 years old.? I make a lot of parts to keep those old machines running.? I enjoy making stuff but I hate the word
"maker".
Dave
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Dave Hallikainen
I have an abrasive disc chop saw that I hardly ever use because?it is loud and slow.? If you are talking about abrasive discs used on an angle grinder, they are dangerous.? Use them enough and you will get hurt, hopefully not seriously.? I have had several injuries over the years by them but the one that sticks in my mind was when the grinder jumped and hit a knuckle taking the skin away to the bone.? That took?months to heal.? Since then I have a lot more respect for them as they can self destruct, jump, bind etc.? I had the bad habit of removing the guard on grinders, I don't do that any more. On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 1:27 PM seb fontana via <speedoo51=[email protected]> wrote: I am sure he is saying that we don't need a bandsaw per se; why not abrasive discs. Europe, Asia all use a lot of cut off discs. At least thats what I notice on U Tube..Also alot of stick welding versus mig or tig. |
开云体育Like others have said, but let me say it…… My band saw is the most utilized tool in my shop. If I’m going to machine a part on my lathe, or my mill, I start, by cutting stock on the band saw. Same thing goes for fabricating or repairing parts that require welding. The process begins with the band saw. ? Band saws cut clean, straight, and require little deburring. They are quiet. They don’t need to be controlled once they start cutting. They are easy to set up to cut multiple identical parts. They cut metals, plastics, wood, about anything. Same cannot be said of an abrasive chop saw, or even a circular dry cut saw. ? Also said…..many of us still build things…..ourselves, from making some bushings for our garden tractor, or building a scale locomotive. These things come as a kit, which is a pile of metals and tools, including, a band saw. ? We also fix things. Why buy a new one, when the old one just needs some repair? That’s why we have machine tools, welders, and all the other tools we own from wrenches to hammers. Some things can be repaired by purchasing parts from the OEM. Some, cannot, or cannot at an affordable price. ? Call us ‘old school.’ J ? And…..most importantly….we enjoy doing all the above. No such thing as too many tools! ? But I think everyone already said all that! But….there it is again. ? Other Bill ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Henry
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 6:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [4x6bandsaw] Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY? ? As the topic says, I am a bit curious why people need a small bandsaw to cutting something by themselves? As i know most of our bandsaw sold to US market and lots of DIY brands machine also do as well, can anyone share why people need this kind of machine? like 4x6 small bandsaw or hacksaw...? In Taiwan, people doesn't do this very often, is it because high labor charge or any other reason cause people in US like to do it by themselves? |
开云体育I didn’t need one until I realized how quietly and safely it can cut stock. ?I no longer get tired from cutting with a hack saw. ?It makes practically no mess and I can walk away while something is cutting. ?If you get it tuned it it’s pretty straight too. ?I had the room and the cost was not much. It gets used every time I use my lathe and sometimes when I’m welding.? On May 22, 2020, at 5:30 PM, Bill Armstrong <bill_1955@...> wrote:
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Henry
Jerry Durand
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