Since the suggestion of providing members of this list with a discount coupon for the machine re-engineered based on this list’s ideas, Rong Fu has disappeared from the conversation.?
Seems like they are quite willing to beg for free idea handouts, but will keep the profits from these to themselves. Having seen this occur multiple times in many manufacturing fields over the years, it leaves a bitter taste.
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Thanks for this John.
Very helpful to current owners too.? I'll have to read this several times to see what ideas I need to implement.
I might have missed it in all the recent emails, but one thing I've picked up from the group over the years is the issue of poor quality control checks leaving casting sand and machining debris is the gearbox.? I'm not suggesting that this is an issue with Rong Fu machines but an improved QC process on the gearbox cleaning before filling with your recommended oil would be something I'd add to your list for any manufacturer.
many thanks
Toby
Fareham, UK
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Wow!! ?What a great ?list. ?You have done a fantastic job of listing improvements and kept them within economic reason by suggesting that they offer some ?as extra cost add ons. ?My hat is off to you for the excellent job you’ve done. ?Now let's see if they are really listening.
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This is kind of a continuation of the original post from Rong Fu about elements users want to see in any redesign that's been overtaken by other posts.
Attached .pdf is my list of design elements that could do with upgrading, specific design features for a base model? and accessories that could be offered to upgrade it.
Rgds - jv
<Re-design the 4x6 .pdf>
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Henry,
I just noticed you’re from rongfu, so thanks for trying to understand our needs. ?This saw is an old design that just work but can be enhanced.
I’ve made many changes to my machine to make it convenient, ?it’s all shared here somewhere. ?I turned and machined a capture nut so I never need a second wrench to unlock my miter, positive adjustable 90 degree stop. I’ve even added a small ratchet so I don’t need tools to do any of this. ?I hated the plastic knobs so they are all changed with wheels from a larger machine... as long as the machine cuts straight or has enough adjustments in it to cut straight other features can be enhanced. ?I’ve also added a chip tray... many little improvements that make my life better. ?The stand is considered weak by many, but for me it seems to be ok.
The appeal is the cost since most who get this saw are not professionals, we have limited space and this saw offers a good compromise. ? Best way to make this better is a good cast and perhaps the pivoting “hinge” could be improved so it is strong and adjustable. ?When the pivot is out of alignment the there is little that can make the saw cut straight.
Mine cuts well enough, it’s not perfect but much easier and cleaner than other methods that make a lot of noise and dust!
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On May 22, 2020, at 9:04 PM, Henry <rongfu@...> wrote:
?Hi, Dave:
Thanks for your sharing. sometimes i don't like "shut up and buy" world, it happens in Taiwan,too. Too many business policy, sale strategy....but never think about consumer. we're here to collect machine user's voice to re-design our new bandsaw, and I hope someday we can make a better bandsaw to fit the market. I am sorry that we're a machine maker, but trying to adjust the way of making machine. have a good day!
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
If I'm the JD, the saw I have now is the second one.? The first was destroyed by the delivery company, they just dropped it off the back of the truck onto the street.? The second saw cuts straight but the bearings in the idle wheel were damaged when manufactured.? I pulled the wheel, cleaned the shaft on my lathe, and put new bearings in.? No more trouble with the wheel.
The saw wouldn't cut a 3x6" metal tube, so I had to replace one jaw to make room.
Now it cuts straight and true.
We're moving soon to Russia so I've sold the larger machines like the Rong Fu milling machine with extended table and DRO.? I'll buy a ZX50C when we get to Russia.? That machine worked well since we bought it in 1993.? The reason for purchase was to build prototypes, we were paying a lot of money to a machine shop for simple things.
Next was a tabletop CNC mill for doing plastic enclosures, I have a manual press to make D cutouts and a few other shapes, but each die cost a lot of money and using it is slow and hard.? The CNC solved those problems.
The 4x6 bandsaw was because we were starting to cut larger items like the 3x6 tube and the small vertical bandsaw just wasn't good enough.
We got a 7x16 lathe for more business items, bought a better quality one and do not regret the extra money.? The only problem is I bought an aluminum QCTP for it and that was a mistake.
I've had a 230 amp welder I've had since the 1970s, sold it recently along with our MIG welder.? We'll buy a new combo MMA/MIG/TIG unit in Russia.
My wife was a welder and designer for architechtual steel long before I met her.? I married a blacksmith.? Her father did some fairly famous wrought iron work in the San Jose, California area and also made black powder rifles with my wife assisting.
So, to your question of accuracy.? I don't need super accuracy, enough so things fit together and function.? Most items don't mind +/- a few thousandths of an inch.? Something like a bearing fit I'll just do slowly so I get it right.
They need to be reliable, I'm not in business to be constantly fixing my own gear.
They need to last.? I expect machine tools to last decades, I'm still using some of my fathers machine tools from the 1950s.
---
Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. +1 408 356-3886
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On May 22, 2020, at 23:31, Henry < rongfu@...> wrote:
Hi, JD:
So, cutting something accurately and quickly will be your main idea to own it, right? what about other cutting tools? they also do cutting as well, what is the weak point you think you must have one 4x6? is it not accurately?
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Henry,
Good to see a manufacturer interested in users views. There was no question in your survey regarding the importance of cutting accuracy.
The reason I (and possibly others) joined this group was to solve a problem with their faulty bandsaw, for me it was to resolve accuracy problems. I have a lot of tools but only join user groups for the tools I have had problems with and need more information to fix them.
I bought a 30 year old 4x6 second-hand bandsaw, made in Taiwan, thinking it was a good deal at 1/4 the price of a new one. Unfortunately the bandsaw had poor manufacturing quality, the pivot pin for the cutting arm was not parallel to the work surface and always cut on an angle. The only fix for this is regrinding the work surface (thank you John for helping with this) or making one of the ears for the pivot pin "adjustable".
I think a problem with buying these bandsaws, or any tooling now, is determining how accurate the saw cuts, or is it fully adjustable to enable the user to make it cut properly compared with others on the market. I've learnt we can't just assume that the tool will cut perfectly from the factory or be adjustable. Almost every part of my bandsaw has required adjustment/modification to get it to cut accurately, all of these things could have been easily sorted out at design or manufacture stages.
John has just posted a very good list of requirements and things I also feel a good 4x6 bandsaw should have. I think getting the saw away from "looks like all the others" so must be crap or good may be an important selling point as John mentioned at the beginning of his list.
Finally, "why do I need a small bandsaw for DIY"?
A small bandsaw fulfils my requirements to cut materials for my projects "quickly", "quietly", "safely" AND "accurately" with the "least effort" possible on my part, along with "reduced dust" creation. None of the other tools I have, grinders, a metal chop-saw (I rarely use this now and thinking of selling it) come close to filling all these requirements as well as the bandsaw does. But, a good small bandsaw costs a lot more than these other tools, which is why I bought a used one.
Hope that helps somehow.
Steve
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
No need to apologize for being a machine maker.? You make good stuff I have an old RF 30 mill drill.? My comments about the shut up and buy stuff was about mindless consumption of disposable products.
Dave
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 7:04 PM Henry < rongfu@...> wrote: Hi, Dave:
Thanks for your sharing. sometimes i don't like "shut up and buy" world, it happens in Taiwan,too. Too many business policy, sale strategy....but never think about consumer. we're here to collect machine user's voice to re-design our new bandsaw, and I hope someday we can make a better bandsaw to fit the market. I am sorry that we're a machine maker, but trying to adjust the way of making machine. have a good day!
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This is kind of a continuation of the original post from Rong Fu about elements users want to see in any redesign that's been overtaken by other posts.
Attached .pdf is my list of design elements that could do with upgrading, specific design features for a base model? and accessories that could be offered to upgrade it.
Rgds - jv
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Hi, Charles:
i am glad to hear the bandsaw helps you a lot. Is there any places that your bandsaw can do better? i mean if there is any weak point that you want to say to the saw maker??
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Hi, John: I think " tool owners and users are simply exercising that same, ingenuity, desire and enthusiasm that dragged mankind out of the cave" is people to satisfied themselves. It's mentally.??Thanks for your sharing!!
?
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Hi, Dave:
Thanks for your sharing. sometimes i don't like "shut up and buy" world, it happens in Taiwan,too. Too many business policy, sale strategy....but never think about consumer. we're here to collect machine user's voice to re-design our new bandsaw, and I hope someday we can make a better bandsaw to fit the market. I am sorry that we're a machine maker, but trying to adjust the way of making machine. have a good day!
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Hi, Dave:
Thanks for your reply on this. i salute to that " I've been building and repairing things my entire life" You're a problem solver. I respect that a lot. i think 4x6 saw is helping you a lot for cutting, a cheap, easy way to get things done will be your idea, right??
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Hi, it's interesting your girlfriend said. Something pops out when you re-design it! as a machine maker like us, we usually don't have real experience as machine user, i mean maybe we are good at make machines, to design it according to product concept while project running, and put it on the production line until we get a machine at final. But maybe it is lack of user experience, the machine from production line is just like a people lack of soul, when these machine sell to market, some of user will modify it to get a better way of use it.?
This is the reason why i join this group, we need to understand what are user's voice, and get these voice into a real machine, it's not an easy job, we're still running.?
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
I have a 4x6 bandsaw that I inherited together with the rest of my father's workshop.?
I value it because (properly set up) it cuts much more accurately than I can with a hacksaw, angle grinder or recip saw. And except for small stuff, with less effort too.
On Sat, 23 May 2020, 09:03 Henry, < rongfu@...> wrote: Hi, JD:
So, cutting something accurately and quickly will be your main idea to own it, right? what about other cutting tools? they also do cutting as well, what is the weak point you think you must have one 4x6? is it not accurately?
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Hi, Jim:
Thanks for your feedback on this. For people who lives in Taiwan, maybe it is true that we're unable to own a small machine because of space reason. I totally agree with it, but i think another thing is culture, in Taiwan, people own a factory will purchase machine such as lathe, saws, miller...it is not often to see normal family have machines in their house.?
I do believe people here can fix things, but not everyone, sometimes we still need a maintenance guy, some service people to help us fix things, and it is easy access to get such service in Taiwan, but it needs to pay, sometime costly as well.?
Anyway, thanks for your time, and how is your old saw working? still good?
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Hi, JD:
So, cutting something accurately and quickly will be your main idea to own it, right? what about other cutting tools? they also do cutting as well, what is the weak point you think you must have one 4x6? is it not accurately?
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Hi,?
Maybe, but i think demand cause supply, people need something maybe physically or mentally, if they need make/built something they will need the machine, isn't??
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
I have a friend who did something like that. He put in hand & grab rails all over in and out in a coworker’s house. He had a stroke, and needed them everywhere.
I have never seen it all, but quite a project. All the people who said, ‘oh yeah, we’ll be there to help’……didn’t.
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Other Bill
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Jerry Durand
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2020 5:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
?
An upcoming "for home" project for my wife and I is our new house needs railings for the two balconies, swing open porch railing for the shop entrance which is
a mini loading dock, and stair railings for the outside shop stairs, the outside house entrance stairs, and the inside stairs up to the second floor.
That's a lot of steel to cut, bend, shape, and weld.
On 5/22/20 3:30 PM, Bill Armstrong wrote:
Like others have said, but let me say it……
My band saw is the most utilized tool in my shop.
If I’m going to machine a part on my lathe, or my mill, I start, by cutting stock on the band saw.
Same thing goes for fabricating or repairing parts that require welding. The process begins with the band saw.
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Band saws cut clean, straight, and require little deburring. They are quiet. They don’t need to be controlled once they start cutting. They are easy to set up to cut multiple
identical parts. They cut metals, plastics, wood, about anything. Same cannot be said of an abrasive chop saw, or even a circular dry cut saw.
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Also said…..many of us still build things…..ourselves, from making some bushings for our garden tractor, or building a scale locomotive. These things come as a kit, which is a
pile of metals and tools, including, a band saw.
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We also fix things. Why buy a new one, when the old one just needs some repair? That’s why we have machine tools, welders, and all the other tools we own from wrenches to hammers.
Some things can be repaired by purchasing parts from the OEM. Some, cannot, or cannot at an affordable price.
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Call us ‘old school.’
J
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And…..most importantly….we enjoy doing all the above.
No such thing as too many tools!
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But I think everyone already said all that!
But….there it is again.
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Other Bill
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From:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Henry
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 6:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [4x6bandsaw] Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
?
As the topic says, I am a bit curious why people need a small bandsaw to cutting something by themselves? As i know most of our bandsaw sold to US market and lots of DIY brands machine also do as well, can
anyone share why people need this kind of machine? like 4x6 small bandsaw or hacksaw...? In Taiwan, people doesn't do this very often, is it because high labor charge or any other reason cause people in US like to do it by themselves?
--
Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. +1 408-356-3886
&
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Hi, Patrick:
thanks for your feedback, i think time and money cost a lot, many people say so, but your third point give me another point of view. it's about psychologically, people are able to satisfied themselves thru make or finish something. appreciate your answer!!??
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Hi, thanks for your feedback, and yes, cost will be an very important issue when doing business. i think it's no matter big or small business. business=business!!
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Tom Angell
Jerry Durand
Henry