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Re: Headed to the Dump

Ralph Hulslander
 

I am on eastern Long Island.

Yes John, the gear probable would work but I just do not think it is worth the effort to replace the gear
and also follow all of your great tips on improving the bandsaw.

Besides I just do not need it any longer with the?alternatives I have.

Ralph

On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 12:14 AM John Vreede <vreededesign@...> wrote:
If its a 20T brass gear then the HF gear (which I understand?is available) will probably fit - jv

On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 12:48 PM Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> wrote:
I am giving up on my Buffalo 4 x 6 bandsaw.

Who knew you were supposed to check the lub level every year.

The bronze drive gear has been shot for the past five years and the saw has just been taking up space in my shop.

I had great intentions but never did anything.

I have modified my 14" wood cutting band saw with a variable speed motor so I can use it to cut metal.
I recently purchased a Milwaukee portable band saw and have used that often.
I think the final nail in the coffin is last year I purchased a
that saw cuts 100 times faster than any bandsaw.

Now I would like to put a cabinet or shelf unit in place of the bandsaw.

Getting it out of my shop could be a chalenge I probably will have to disassemble it.

I have new bi-metal 64-1/2" blades and a box of old blades that came with the saw so no idea?
what their condition is. So if anybody wants them send me a email.

I paid $50.00 for this saw and used it for 10 years so I got my money out of it.

With all of the discussions on aligning the blade and fixes I really do not want to take the time
to follow all of the suggestions made on making the saw better and replacing the drive gear.

Ralph
Re: Headed to the Dump

 

If its a 20T brass gear then the HF gear (which I understand?is available) will probably fit - jv

On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 12:48 PM Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> wrote:
I am giving up on my Buffalo 4 x 6 bandsaw.

Who knew you were supposed to check the lub level every year.

The bronze drive gear has been shot for the past five years and the saw has just been taking up space in my shop.

I had great intentions but never did anything.

I have modified my 14" wood cutting band saw with a variable speed motor so I can use it to cut metal.
I recently purchased a Milwaukee portable band saw and have used that often.
I think the final nail in the coffin is last year I purchased a
that saw cuts 100 times faster than any bandsaw.

Now I would like to put a cabinet or shelf unit in place of the bandsaw.

Getting it out of my shop could be a chalenge I probably will have to disassemble it.

I have new bi-metal 64-1/2" blades and a box of old blades that came with the saw so no idea?
what their condition is. So if anybody wants them send me a email.

I paid $50.00 for this saw and used it for 10 years so I got my money out of it.

With all of the discussions on aligning the blade and fixes I really do not want to take the time
to follow all of the suggestions made on making the saw better and replacing the drive gear.

Ralph
Re: Headed to the Dump

 

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Where are you located? Someone close may be willing to help you remove it.


On Mar 14, 2021, at 7:49 PM, Ralph Hulslander <rhulslander@...> wrote:

?I am giving up on my Buffalo 4 x 6 bandsaw.

Who knew you were supposed to check the lub level every year.

The bronze drive gear has been shot for the past five years and the saw has just been taking up space in my shop.

I had great intentions but never did anything.

I have modified my 14" wood cutting band saw with a variable speed motor so I can use it to cut metal.
I recently purchased a Milwaukee portable band saw and have used that often.
I think the final nail in the coffin is last year I purchased a
that saw cuts 100 times faster than any bandsaw.

Now I would like to put a cabinet or shelf unit in place of the bandsaw.

Getting it out of my shop could be a chalenge I probably will have to disassemble it.

I have new bi-metal 64-1/2" blades and a box of old blades that came with the saw so no idea?
what their condition is. So if anybody wants them send me a email.

I paid $50.00 for this saw and used it for 10 years so I got my money out of it.

With all of the discussions on aligning the blade and fixes I really do not want to take the time
to follow all of the suggestions made on making the saw better and replacing the drive gear.

Ralph
Headed to the Dump

Ralph Hulslander
 

I am giving up on my Buffalo 4 x 6 bandsaw.

Who knew you were supposed to check the lub level every year.

The bronze drive gear has been shot for the past five years and the saw has just been taking up space in my shop.

I had great intentions but never did anything.

I have modified my 14" wood cutting band saw with a variable speed motor so I can use it to cut metal.
I recently purchased a Milwaukee portable band saw and have used that often.
I think the final nail in the coffin is last year I purchased a
that saw cuts 100 times faster than any bandsaw.

Now I would like to put a cabinet or shelf unit in place of the bandsaw.

Getting it out of my shop could be a chalenge I probably will have to disassemble it.

I have new bi-metal 64-1/2" blades and a box of old blades that came with the saw so no idea?
what their condition is. So if anybody wants them send me a email.

I paid $50.00 for this saw and used it for 10 years so I got my money out of it.

With all of the discussions on aligning the blade and fixes I really do not want to take the time
to follow all of the suggestions made on making the saw better and replacing the drive gear.

Ralph
Re: Blade coming off

 

Bowl of whiskey. It works better, I'm told.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 04:17:17 PM CST, edfredfred1@... <edfredfred1@...> wrote:


Lay out some clothing for the Elves and count your blessings!

Re: Blade coming off

 

You weren't holding your tongue between your teeth right yesterday!

:)

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 03:45:48 PM CST, karlw144 via groups.io <karlw144@...> wrote:


Well, the saga continues. Went to the shop with a fresh attitude this afternoon. Saw was just as I left it, old blade on and at tension (no guides). Ran the saw several times, blade tracked beautifully, just up against the wheel flanges. So, now I’m going to do exactly what I did about 5 times yesterday (I know if you keep doing the same thing, you’ll probably get the same results??) so I roughly preset the required twist in the blade using a big crescent wrench, then I slipped the guide assembly in place and snugged everything down. Rollers both had a few thou clearance and back roller was .050 away from the blade. Got my camera ready to take a video of the blade immediately coming off when the saw was turned on. Well, I’ll be an sob, the blade stayed on???. No idea why? ?Ok, I’ll put the lower guide on, that’ll surely kick the blade off. Did that, saw runs just fine. WTF, what’s going on here. This is with no adjustments to the guides, same setup I was trying last night. So, now I tweaked the rollers a little bit, just to keep things in line and to make sure the rear rollers aren’t going to push the blade off, or whatever was going on. Put all the guards back on and I’m going to take a test cut???. Have everything adjusted so that the back up rollers aren’t rotating until there is cutting pressure on the blade. Side roller guides can be moved with my fingers. Time to cut! Just trying some 1 1/2 inch aluminum rounds that I have. Two cuts and the discs that fall off range from .064- .067 thick. I have not a clue what is different from last night to this afternoon. I’d like to thank everyone that offered ideas, and I’m surely a lot more familiar with how the guides work on my saw than I was before, and I don’t know why it’s working now, but I’ll happily accept that it is.

Re: Blade coming off

 

Lay out some clothing for the Elves and count your blessings!
Re: Blade coming off

 

Well, the saga continues. Went to the shop with a fresh attitude this afternoon. Saw was just as I left it, old blade on and at tension (no guides). Ran the saw several times, blade tracked beautifully, just up against the wheel flanges. So, now I’m going to do exactly what I did about 5 times yesterday (I know if you keep doing the same thing, you’ll probably get the same results??) so I roughly preset the required twist in the blade using a big crescent wrench, then I slipped the guide assembly in place and snugged everything down. Rollers both had a few thou clearance and back roller was .050 away from the blade. Got my camera ready to take a video of the blade immediately coming off when the saw was turned on. Well, I’ll be an sob, the blade stayed on???. No idea why? ?Ok, I’ll put the lower guide on, that’ll surely kick the blade off. Did that, saw runs just fine. WTF, what’s going on here. This is with no adjustments to the guides, same setup I was trying last night. So, now I tweaked the rollers a little bit, just to keep things in line and to make sure the rear rollers aren’t going to push the blade off, or whatever was going on. Put all the guards back on and I’m going to take a test cut???. Have everything adjusted so that the back up rollers aren’t rotating until there is cutting pressure on the blade. Side roller guides can be moved with my fingers. Time to cut! Just trying some 1 1/2 inch aluminum rounds that I have. Two cuts and the discs that fall off range from .064- .067 thick. I have not a clue what is different from last night to this afternoon. I’d like to thank everyone that offered ideas, and I’m surely a lot more familiar with how the guides work on my saw than I was before, and I don’t know why it’s working now, but I’ll happily accept that it is.
Re: Blade coming off

David Pidwerbecki
 

I *just* bought some bearings for my saw.? ?I suggest that you look for the bearing spec on the bearing.? ?Per John V's suggestion, I purchased the equivalent bearing except with rubber seals.? ? I bought a name brand bearing, NSK, off of eBay.? ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6000VVC3-NSK-New-Single-Row-Ball-Bearing/223921877148?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818143132%26meid%3Df0afb56d51234b8e87f880661ee5f758%26pid%3D101198%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D153866309127%26itm%3D223921877148%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLCvipPairwiseWebWithBBEV2bDemotion%26brand%3DNSK&_trksid=p2047675.c101198.m1985

I ordered these from a different supplier.? They were a little over $4 each (I ordered 6), including shipping.? ?Because this is such an important part of your saw, I'd spend the extra money and get good, name brand bearings.
Re: Blade coming off

 

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??? ??? I'm not sure if you mentioned if it tosses the belt with just one of the guides on . I think it can be run that way by lookin at mine .If you try this maybe you can narrow it down to which guide is causing the problem .? As far as ??? ??? ??? bearings you can get a 10 pack of those bearings on Amazon for @ 12 bucks .

??? ??? animal

On 3/11/2021 9:30 AM, Mark Kimball wrote:

You actually have come a long way, since you now know your problem is related to one or more of the guides.

You have said that the saw has some years on it.? Maybe it's time to look closely at the parts that are known to wear out, like the roller bearings.? Not having done it, is it relatively easy to swap the inner and outer rollers?? ?My thinking is something like this:? Suppose the inner bearing, the one that makes the blade twist, has worn to the point that it tips.? This messes up the blade alignment, so you adjust that -- but the outer bearing is NOT worn, so it is canted relative to the blade, perhaps pushing the blade out.

Mark

Re: Blade coming off

 

You actually have come a long way, since you now know your problem is related to one or more of the guides.

You have said that the saw has some years on it.? Maybe it's time to look closely at the parts that are known to wear out, like the roller bearings.? Not having done it, is it relatively easy to swap the inner and outer rollers?? ?My thinking is something like this:? Suppose the inner bearing, the one that makes the blade twist, has worn to the point that it tips.? This messes up the blade alignment, so you adjust that -- but the outer bearing is NOT worn, so it is canted relative to the blade, perhaps pushing the blade out.

Mark
Re: Blade coming off

 


Seems like it's?being 'squirted' out out of the nip on the bottom guide side rollers. I'm wondering if the bottom guide is set up so that the eccentric?is closing the gap when its running (i.e. the centre of the adjustment?eccentric is above the center of the fixed roller on the inside of the run of the blade).? Can you check that the adjuster locking nut is tight?. I'm thinking maybe its loose enough to wiggle some clearance when you try but can then jam together when the running of the blade drags the eccentric closer.
I normally set the blade to side-roller clearance off the machine.? Put the guide assembly into a vice and adjust with the blade or a 25thou feeler gauge. You should be able to turn either of the rollers with your fingers? - jv?

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 4:54 PM karlw144 via <karlw144=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
John, thanks for the ideas, I’m just too fed up right now to try any more ideas, been messing with it for about 6 hours today. I can go to full tension and the tracking doesn’t change, no problems without the guides installed. I put the guides on, side to side pinch isn’t too tight, and the blade seems to be ok. The back bearing is away from the blade so it’s not forcing the blade out of the roller guides. As soon as I turn on the saw, the blade starts to come forward out of the guides and then comes off the lower wheel. Take the guides off and the blade tracks right back on the wheels. Thought I discovered something when I noticed that the upper wheel could really twist side to side. The guide bars that hold the wheel support were very loose in the slot of that casting so I took some thicker material and made new guide bars and milled out the housing to match the thicker material.? Worked a treat, no more wobbles, but the blade still comes off as soon as I try to install the guides. Got to be missing something here????.

Re: Blade coming off

 

It sounds like you are doing everything right but if it is tracking right until you put the guides on then is seems like it would be guide related. From what I am ready you likely know what I'm going to say but the guides should only twist the blade. I'm wondering if you have a blade that is stretched on one edge.?
Re: Blade coming off

 

Hmm.. tracks OK under tension when no guides, but not if there are.
That's dead odd.
Probably not the?bearing, but I think you should still test how far a 16" straightedge moves in, when tensioning the blade ??
On all machines I've played with putting the guides in is either neutral or makes the blade track toward the rims.
If its?coming off the bottom wheel you'd think that the bottom guide was the problem.? Better test.? Put the top guide, tension the blade and run, then swap. Take out the top guide and put the bottom guide in tension up and run again.?
If you can report back on that I do some more thinking - jv


On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 4:54 PM karlw144 via <karlw144=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
John, thanks for the ideas, I’m just too fed up right now to try any more ideas, been messing with it for about 6 hours today. I can go to full tension and the tracking doesn’t change, no problems without the guides installed. I put the guides on, side to side pinch isn’t too tight, and the blade seems to be ok. The back bearing is away from the blade so it’s not forcing the blade out of the roller guides. As soon as I turn on the saw, the blade starts to come forward out of the guides and then comes off the lower wheel. Take the guides off and the blade tracks right back on the wheels. Thought I discovered something when I noticed that the upper wheel could really twist side to side. The guide bars that hold the wheel support were very loose in the slot of that casting so I took some thicker material and made new guide bars and milled out the housing to match the thicker material.? Worked a treat, no more wobbles, but the blade still comes off as soon as I try to install the guides. Got to be missing something here????.

Re: Blade coming off

 

John, thanks for the ideas, I’m just too fed up right now to try any more ideas, been messing with it for about 6 hours today. I can go to full tension and the tracking doesn’t change, no problems without the guides installed. I put the guides on, side to side pinch isn’t too tight, and the blade seems to be ok. The back bearing is away from the blade so it’s not forcing the blade out of the roller guides. As soon as I turn on the saw, the blade starts to come forward out of the guides and then comes off the lower wheel. Take the guides off and the blade tracks right back on the wheels. Thought I discovered something when I noticed that the upper wheel could really twist side to side. The guide bars that hold the wheel support were very loose in the slot of that casting so I took some thicker material and made new guide bars and milled out the housing to match the thicker material. ?Worked a treat, no more wobbles, but the blade still comes off as soon as I try to install the guides. Got to be missing something here????.
Re: Blade coming off

 

I would take both blade guides off and see if it will track right. Also make sure the wheels stay aligned under tension. When you put the guides back on make sure the bearing are not set to tight to the blade and the back roller is just kissing the blade (but it sounds like you knw that).
Re: Blade coming off

 

Hi Karl. I think I know what's going on when you said it's coming off the bottom wheel
I'd bet the gearbox output shaft outer bearing is shot.?
The extra clearance in the bearing allows the output shaft to bend as the blade tension comes on and effectively tilts the drive wheel so as to make the blade derail.?
Check it by putting a 16" straight edge across the drive wheel alone with no tension and watch the top end of it tip in toward the frame as you wind on the tension. A good bearing tips the straightedge?only ~1/8" (3mm).? Any more than that and the bearing has failed
Bit tricky to change but do-able.? Can change it independent?of the input shaft bearings.? Most likely the inner bearing on the output shaft will be OK since it runs in an oil bath but the outer one fails because?it is starved of oil by the?centre oil seal.
Accompanying photos show how I check the bearings.? 1"x 1/2" Aluminium unequal-angle extrusion 16" long from your hardware store (pic1) with 1/2" long pot magnets, 6" apart,? to space off the wheel rim (pic 2).? Attach to the wheel rim inside the teeth and angle it across so its lines up with the edge of the casting.? With no tension in the blade the top of the extrusion sits about 5mm off the edge of sawframe casting (pic 3).? When fully tensioned only 2mm off? (pic4)?
Rgds - jv


On Thu, 11 Mar 2021, 1:34 pm karlw144 via , <karlw144=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Haven’t posted in a long time. Had my hf 4x6 saw for probably 15 years. Has been a pretty good saw, had to make special bushings and redo the front pivot to get it squared up, but it’s been working ok. Lately no matter what I do the blade likes to come off the wheels, doesn’t matter if it’s a light or heavy cut. So I thought I’d tear the whole thing down, start from ground zero, and give it a good tune up. Basically followed the “ Blade tracking and adjustment “ by John Pitkin that’s found in the groups files. The wheels are round and lined up top to bottom. Used a good straight edge and played a bit with both upper and lower wheels till they were in line. Put a new blade on and fired it up.? About a turn on the tilt bolt and the blade came up nicely against the flange on both wheels, just touching and not a hard rub. More tension adde to the blade and everything s nice and quiet, smooth running. Now for the PITA part, no matter what I do to try and adjust the guides, in about 3 revolutions it tosses the blade off. I’ve tried just the upper guides, just the lower guides, and both upper and lower guides, both side guides loose or snugged up a bit. The rear roller guides are set well behind the blade at this point, no contact at all. As soon as I start the saw, the blade starts coming off the lower wheel, and with in a few seconds it’s off everything. I’m looking for some help here. Willing to try whatever, I’m sure stumped on this.
thanks
karl

Gearbox bearing check 1.jpg
Gearbox bearing check 2.jpg
Gearbox bearing check 3.jpg
Gearbox bearing check 4.jpg

Another way to "fix" vertical misalignment problem

 

Things have been too busy lately to do the vertical alignment procedure described by John Vreede, so I came up with a workaround.? It is useful because it can be used with short material without changing the thickness of the shim needed to correct the misalignment.? Here it is in use (sorry for the slight blur):


The work is dropped into the jaw and the aluminum piece is clamped in place with the C clamp, then the shim (in this case a US penny was perfect) is placed between the top of the jaw and aluminum piece, tilting the work up.? Then the jaw is tightened down.? The horizontal aluminum piece allows me to place the penny in the same location regardless of the length of the piece I'm cutting -- assuming that the aluminum alignment arm is installed so it is parallel to the jaw.

To be absolutely correct, it would be best to reverse things so the fixed jaw forms the reference plane.? The moveable jaw could wobble, affecting the alignment -- but if you look closely you will see a couple of brass screws attached to the fixed jaw.? They were initially added to help prevent the moveable jaw from tilting back when it's tightened down:? but they also keep the jaw from wobbling.? Folks who haven't done this mod probably want to use the fixed jaw to do the alignment correctoin.

The observant will also notice that the jaws have been extended, and a "jack screw" setup is on the left side to keep the moveable jaw from rotating if I'm clamping short pieces to cut.? In reality it's not a screw but a clamp arrangement for a .5" diameter rod.? It is quick and easy to set up.? I drilled a .5" diameter hole for the rod, then cut a slot up to it.? There are two blocks, one on each side of the slot; the left one is drilled for clearance and the right one was tapped for a 10-34 screw.? Tightening the screw down clamps the rod securely in place.

Mark
Re: Blade coming off

 

Yes, I’ve tried the one I had on the saw, a Morse bi metal and another new one, don’t know who’s it was.
Re: Blade coming off

 

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??? ??? Have you tried it with a different blade ?

??? ??? animal

On 3/10/2021 4:34 PM, karlw144 via groups.io wrote:

Haven’t posted in a long time. Had my hf 4x6 saw for probably 15 years. Has been a pretty good saw, had to make special bushings and redo the front pivot to get it squared up, but it’s been working ok. Lately no matter what I do the blade likes to come off the wheels, doesn’t matter if it’s a light or heavy cut. So I thought I’d tear the whole thing down, start from ground zero, and give it a good tune up. Basically followed the “ Blade tracking and adjustment “ by John Pitkin that’s found in the groups files. The wheels are round and lined up top to bottom. Used a good straight edge and played a bit with both upper and lower wheels till they were in line. Put a new blade on and fired it up. ?About a turn on the tilt bolt and the blade came up nicely against the flange on both wheels, just touching and not a hard rub. More tension adde to the blade and everything s nice and quiet, smooth running. Now for the PITA part, no matter what I do to try and adjust the guides, in about 3 revolutions it tosses the blade off. I’ve tried just the upper guides, just the lower guides, and both upper and lower guides, both side guides loose or snugged up a bit. The rear roller guides are set well behind the blade at this point, no contact at all. As soon as I start the saw, the blade starts coming off the lower wheel, and with in a few seconds it’s off everything. I’m looking for some help here. Willing to try whatever, I’m sure stumped on this.
thanks
karl

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