Cutting oversized stock in the 4x6
I've been lurking here for a while, but now have a challenge that could use some input. I have a Detroit Machinery - branded 4x6 saw, manufactured in 1981 in Taiwan. My Dad bought it, and I've inherited it and by sheer luck got it cutting unbelievably well. This saw has changed the game with my DIY/hobby projects, mostly welding.
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I would like to cut a piece of 8x1.75" steel channel with it, which I know is outside its limits. The saw will accommodate the channel vertically (on its side), so I'm wondering what will happen if I try to cut it. I absolutely don't want to damage the saw in any way. Alternatives would be O/A cutting, angle grinder with cutting wheel, or haul it to work and ask the fab shop to cut it on their industrial-grade band saw (I'm already indebted there with other personal favors).
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Thanks for your thoughts.
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Lee
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Thanks Eloy!? I guess I just saw what expected to see, sorry about the mis-spell. Appreciate you sharing your experience - jv?
On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 3:40 PM rangerod1 < rangerod@...> wrote: John
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The grit blade causes more resistance in the kerf especially when the carbide grit starts to wear & get dull. Keep the feed at a reasonable rate & both with cut well for you. Carbide tooth for solids & carbide grit for hollow shapes will do you just fine. btw there is no "r" in my first name, no biggie common mistake. Hope the info helps.
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---------- Original Message ---------- From: "John Vreede" < vreededesign@...> To: " [email protected] Group Moderators" < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] CUTTING CARBON FIBRE Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 15:18:11 +1200
Thanks Elroy.
Does the job shudder worse with grit?than teeth? or was that a mistake? (The teeth are more periodic than the the grit so I expected teeth to be worse for shuddering)
Industrial?bandsaws are much more rigid than our 4x6's so not surprising that either of these blades work well on them. May well be that TC has an industrial saw too and he'll be ok with either - jv
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On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 2:54 PM rangerod1 < rangerod@...> wrote:
John
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I used these blades on a Kalamazoo swivel head? & a hydraulic power feed DoAll with slipper guides, which worked exceptionally well. The Kala had rollers, both cut reliably & I didn't have issues with either. You're? right a 4 x 6 might shudder with a carbide grit blade but if thats what you have on hand I think you should be able to get thru as long as the the job is not oversized for the machine. Cut mostly carbon fiber & some fiberglass composites. Nothing special just run coolant when possible & once you get started cutting initially you will eventually work your way to the settings that work best for you. These materials are severely aggressive on the blades but they gave good service life & you just have to accept the fact that they will die sooner than cutting metals. A good bi metal blade for metals is the ticket also.
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John
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The grit blade causes more resistance in the kerf especially when the carbide grit starts to wear & get dull. Keep the feed at a reasonable rate & both with cut well for you. Carbide tooth for solids & carbide grit for hollow shapes will do you just fine. btw there is no "r" in my first name, no biggie common mistake. Hope the info helps.
?
---------- Original Message ---------- From: "John Vreede" <vreededesign@...> To: " [email protected] Group Moderators" < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] CUTTING CARBON FIBRE Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 15:18:11 +1200
Thanks Elroy.
Does the job shudder worse with grit?than teeth? or was that a mistake? (The teeth are more periodic than the the grit so I expected teeth to be worse for shuddering)
Industrial?bandsaws are much more rigid than our 4x6's so not surprising that either of these blades work well on them. May well be that TC has an industrial saw too and he'll be ok with either - jv
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On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 2:54 PM rangerod1 < rangerod@...> wrote:
John
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I used these blades on a Kalamazoo swivel head? & a hydraulic power feed DoAll with slipper guides, which worked exceptionally well. The Kala had rollers, both cut reliably & I didn't have issues with either. You're? right a 4 x 6 might shudder with a carbide grit blade but if thats what you have on hand I think you should be able to get thru as long as the the job is not oversized for the machine. Cut mostly carbon fiber & some fiberglass composites. Nothing special just run coolant when possible & once you get started cutting initially you will eventually work your way to the settings that work best for you. These materials are severely aggressive on the blades but they gave good service life & you just have to accept the fact that they will die sooner than cutting metals. A good bi metal blade for metals is the ticket also.
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Re: [ExternalEmail] Re: [4x6bandsaw] Redesign of the 4x6
Hi, thanks for your comments. Looking forward to see a good product to come out just like waiting baby to burn on this earth. We still have long way to go. Appreciate your support.?
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Thanks Elroy. Does the job shudder worse with grit?than teeth? or was that a mistake? (The teeth are more periodic than the the grit so I expected teeth to be worse for shuddering) Industrial?bandsaws are much more rigid than our 4x6's so not surprising that either of these blades work well on them. May well be that TC has an industrial saw too and he'll be ok with either - jv
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 2:54 PM rangerod1 < rangerod@...> wrote: John
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I used these blades on a Kalamazoo swivel head? & a hydraulic power feed DoAll with slipper guides, which worked exceptionally well. The Kala had rollers, both cut reliably & I didn't have issues with either. You're? right a 4 x 6 might shudder with a carbide grit blade but if thats what you have on hand I think you should be able to get thru as long as the the job is not oversized for the machine. Cut mostly carbon fiber & some fiberglass composites. Nothing special just run coolant when possible & once you get started cutting initially you will eventually work your way to the settings that work best for you. These materials are severely aggressive on the blades but they gave good service life & you just have to accept the fact that they will die sooner than cutting metals. A good bi metal blade for metals is the ticket also.
?
____________________________________________________________
Top News -
|
John
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I used these blades on a Kalamazoo swivel head? & a hydraulic power feed DoAll with slipper guides, which worked exceptionally well. The Kala had rollers, both cut reliably & I didn't have issues with either. You're? right a 4 x 6 might shudder with a carbide grit blade but if thats what you have on hand I think you should be able to get thru as long as the the job is not oversized for the machine. Cut mostly carbon fiber & some fiberglass composites. Nothing special just run coolant when possible & once you get started cutting initially you will eventually work your way to the settings that work best for you. These materials are severely aggressive on the blades but they gave good service life & you just have to accept the fact that they will die sooner than cutting metals. A good bi metal blade for metals is the ticket also.
?
Please note: message attached From: "John Vreede" <vreededesign@...> To: " [email protected] Group Moderators" < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] CUTTING CARBON FIBRE Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 15:26:41 +1200
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I'm not sure about the size/thickness of material needing to be cut, but another option to consider is a wet tile saw.? The blades usually are diamond.? You can buy diamond tile saw blades for $14 on up depending on the vendor and diameter, if you want to roll your own.....but a new SKIL tile saw only will cost you a bit over $100 (Amazon price) and it comes with a 7" saw blade.
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Hi Elroy You're speaking from experience with carbide toothed blades on a bandsaw.?? I can see a grit blade working on a 4x6 no problem, but
I've always thought that the 4x6 wasn't rigid enough,that they would vibrate too badly, esp in the guides, to use a carbide?toothed blade.? What sort of bandsaw are you using the carbide toothed blade on???
Do you have slipper guides or roller guides?? What materials do you cut with?them? Do you have to do anything special to make them work? What problems have you had with them? Thx - jv
On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 10:48 AM rangerod1 < rangerod@...> wrote: Whether or not you can use any kind of coolant will depend on whether the customer has any manufacturing specifications restricting it's use on the part. Never used anything but regular coolant used for mills, saws, grinders & belt sanders on cured composites. Part applications were for space, aviation, oil industry, sports equip ect...?
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Please note: message attached From: " mrbill@..." < mrbill@...> To: < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] CUTTING CARBON FIBRE Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 15:55:16 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
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Whether or not you can use any kind of coolant will depend on whether the customer has any manufacturing specifications restricting it's use on the part. Never used anything but regular coolant used for mills, saws, grinders & belt sanders on cured composites. Part applications were for space, aviation, oil industry, sports equip ect...?
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Please note: message attached From: "mrbill@..." <mrbill@...> To: < [email protected]> Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] CUTTING CARBON FIBRE Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 15:55:16 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
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Dave,
?Diamond blades certainly exist, but I'm not sure how well they would do in this application. I use several saws for slicing rocks for jewelry that range from 24" blade down to a 4" blade that I rarely use. All of my saws run wet with either water or oil, and that may be a problem for the carbon fibre. ARM, if you're reading this, I'd be glad to do a sample cut on a small piece with a diamond blade. Let me know if that's anything of interest and we'll set something up.?
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Bill in Beebe, AR
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-------Original Message-------
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Date: 5/27/2020 1:46:28 PM
Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] CUTTING CARBON FIBRE
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What about diamond coated blades, do they exist? I know they do for circular saws (I recently had to buy one because I was cutting an epoxy counter top which literally turned a fresh carbide blade into scrap in about 7" of cutting- the carbide bits were worn into little "L"s!)
-Dave
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020, 06:06:51 PM PDT, rangerod1 <rangerod@...> wrote:
Carbide tipped blade for solid composites & carbide grit blade for hollow shapes.?
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---------- Original Message ---------- From: "ARM" <arm@...> To: [email protected]Subject: [4x6bandsaw] CUTTING CARBON FIBRE Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 22:59:47 -0700 Hi Guys There's surely some of U learned and experienced Folks out here who would be able to recommend a Type and Source for blades to cut CARBON FIBRE. ?We do have a large Vertical Metal Cutting Bandsaw whose Blades are literally destroyed whilst Cutting this difficult material. Would immensely appreciate some input from U Gents TIA ATB aRM? ____________________________________________________________Top News -
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What about diamond coated blades, do they exist? I know they do for circular saws (I recently had to buy one because I was cutting an epoxy counter top which literally turned a fresh carbide blade into scrap in about 7" of cutting- the carbide bits were worn into little "L"s!)
-Dave
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020, 06:06:51 PM PDT, rangerod1 <rangerod@...> wrote:
Carbide tipped blade for solid composites & carbide grit blade for hollow shapes.?
?
?
---------- Original Message ---------- From: "ARM" <arm@...> To: [email protected]Subject: [4x6bandsaw] CUTTING CARBON FIBRE Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 22:59:47 -0700 Hi Guys There's surely some of U learned and experienced Folks out here who would be able to recommend a Type and Source for blades to cut CARBON FIBRE. ?We do have a large Vertical Metal Cutting Bandsaw whose Blades are literally destroyed whilst Cutting this difficult material. Would immensely appreciate some input from U Gents TIA ATB aRM?
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Re: [ExternalEmail] Re: [4x6bandsaw] Redesign of the 4x6
One real problem with “stolen some ideas from other brands” is that sometimes those were bad ideas.
Especially if the copy, is already a copy. The blade guides on my old green HF version.?
The available adjustments on the front (or top when vertical) are about useless,
but some one spent some time slavishly copying (more or less) someone else’s idea.
I applaud your approach Henry.
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Henry
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 1:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [ExternalEmail] Re: [4x6bandsaw] Redesign of the 4x6
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Hi, Joe:
To stolen some ideas from other brands is a problem, besides, a small saw don't use very high tech. A manufacture like us can do 100% copy from other brand of saw, but this is not what we want, we're chasing a bandsaw contents more USER-oriented design, try
to understand what is the "pain point" of small bandsaw owners like you guys here, what is your concern point? will guide us to re-design it.?
So, i am so glad you all gives us lots of suggestion and our team need time to understand it, as you may know designer have different opinions each other, we are still working on it.??
Thanks?
Henry
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Hi, Bill:
You mentioned some points such as quick vise, hydraulic feeding unit, coolant system, these are exactly the same as other owner's opinions. We have another forum "hobby machinist" those owner's give opinions just like yours, therefore, we put it into our project and discussing, tks for your advise, really appreciate.?
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Hi, Joe:
To stolen some ideas from other brands is a problem, besides, a small saw don't use very high tech. A manufacture like us can do 100% copy from other brand of saw, but this is not what we want, we're chasing a bandsaw contents more USER-oriented design, try to understand what is the "pain point" of small bandsaw owners like you guys here, what is your concern point? will guide us to re-design it.?
So, i am so glad you all gives us lots of suggestion and our team need time to understand it, as you may know designer have different opinions each other, we are still working on it.??
Thanks?
Henry
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Hi, Johnson:
it's just a busy lately, i just came up few mins ago to see lots of suggestions here, i and my team need to collect and study a bit, and sometimes designers have different opinions each other,so, this project still have a long way to go, please don't misunderstand, we will keep coming up here and give you guys update if any news. tks for your concern! ^^
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Hi, John:
Lots of information and suggestion you gave us, i think we will have a discuss with our team for these suggestion, it's very useful to us, tks again for support.
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Carbide tipped blade for solid composites & carbide grit blade for hollow shapes.?
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---------- Original Message ---------- From: "ARM" <arm@...> To: [email protected]Subject: [4x6bandsaw] CUTTING CARBON FIBRE Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 22:59:47 -0700 Hi Guys There's surely some of U learned and experienced Folks out here who would be able to recommend a Type and Source for blades to cut CARBON FIBRE. ?We do have a large Vertical Metal Cutting Bandsaw whose Blades are literally destroyed whilst Cutting this difficult material. Would immensely appreciate some input from U Gents TIA ATB aRM?
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Sorry T C, didn't think about where you'd get them. Morse offer a range of medium and medium-coarse grit blades?both continuous and gulleted in the US in 3/8" and 1/2" wide. Snapon who own the Swedish company Bahco have carbide grit blades too, but I'm not sure if they offer them in the US. I see in the Snapon 'Bandsaws and metal cutting tools" catalogue they offer?1/4" wide gulleted fine grit and 3/8"? medium and medium-coarse gulleted only blades.? They only offer 1 continuous gritted blade grit in 1/2" (medium grit) along with?gulleted? medium and medium-coarse.?? I thought gulleted blades would be be too aggressive, but if the only fine grit blade offered is gulleted and the narrow 1/4" and 3/8"blades are only offered in gulleted too, then maybe gulleted is OK for finer work like a knifemaker would do. Let us know what you get and how they work, I'd be real interested and maybe other people would see options they didn't know about. Rgds - jv?
(the people who invented the shifting spanner you call a Crescent)??
On Wed, 27 May 2020, 1:38 AM ARM, < arm@...> wrote: JOHN VREEDE Esq
Yes indeed that helps a stack
Much appreciate the prompt and comprehensive response
Now will proceed sourcing this?
Thanks a zillion once again
LORD Bless
TC
aRM
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JOHN VREEDE Esq
Yes indeed that helps a stack
Much appreciate the prompt and comprehensive response
Now will proceed sourcing this?
Thanks a zillion once again
LORD Bless
TC
aRM
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Re: Curious why people need a small bandsaw for DIY?
Hi, Aron:
Thank you for the time and sharing with us, your feedback is very objectively and give us different point of view. Most of people tell us why they need this bandsaw machine substantially, for example, own a small saw for cutting things, to make parts, to doing some business(like personal shop), or because space is limited so i can choose only small saws...these are the mostly feedback.? ?
However, I think you point out something psychically, it's about your culture from grandparents even their background, this is rarely to see that you want share us with this inner part.?
I understand a bit more from your feedback,and it's really great, this will be part of our concept when we design small bandsaw, but there still long way to go, currently we just start to set up strategy and lots of discussions for this project, we will keep post to let you guys know if any news. thanks again for your sharing.?
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John Vreede
Henry