¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

ctrl + shift + ? for shortcuts
© 2025 Groups.io

Re: OT: Bainbridge 712 resurrection [4 Attachments]


 

Just wanted to say thanks again for all the help. Put on a newish spring and it cuts like a dream!! 3/4" rebar. Just a bit of a burrito at the end. Look ma, no hands!! :)


On Sun, Oct 14, 2018, 6:32 PM Darren McCarley <darren.mccarley@...> wrote:
JV,

?A bit more progress today. Added a makeshift tension gauge. Before and after pics attached. Nothing fancy. Just a way to mark the tensioner and return to same relative position. (Simple $5?steel ruler).?
Also, I did tension the belt more and gave it a test cut. Happy to report that by holding the tensioner as the blade engages the stock, the saw cuts amazingly well.?
So, next challenge, spring tension. I didn't get a luggage scale, yet. However, I did adjust the spring, test, readjust, test, rinse/repeat. Same results. I've attached a couple of pics of this saw's spring setup. I think I'll need to get a new spring.?
Lastly, just to show the blade travel. Attached are a couple of pictures of the wheels and blade after my hand held cut.
Thoughts?
Thanks!
Darren

On Sun, Oct 14, 2018, 10:33 AM Darren McCarley darren.mccarley@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:
?
[Attachment(s) from Darren McCarley included below]

JV,
Fantastic feedback. Thank you! Funny how life works. I wouldn't have understood most of your explanation, if I hadn't worked through the challenges first. I greatly appreciate your time and sharing of knowledge.
I'll attempt to respond in a semi-orderly fashion.

Blade tension:
I believe I'm still in the "thunk" area of tone. I'm right handed and will tension with my left till I get more of a "twang".?

Wheels: These wheels seem to have a bit of crown and no rims (If I understand you). Perhaps a difference in desing? (Pics attached)

Driven Wheel tilt: Thank you for the in depth explanation on how this works. I'll be modifying the saw to include a simple tension gauge/ruler.

Drive wheel: The fact that this wheel is pinned continues to be a point of concern of mine. It looks like this wheel originally used a set screw. I assume the wheel was slipping on the shaft and someone stripped the threads trying to tighten the screw too much. In an effort to "fix" this mistake, perhaps they drilled and pinned the wheel. Thus negating ALL fore/aft adjustment of the drive wheel. I have a couple of options here.

1) Leave the pin. - HUGE assumption of accuracy and useability.?
2) Drill and tap 3 more holes and use 3 set screws 120¡ã off setting. I could go so far as to measure and flatten parts of the drive shaft to aid in anti-slip, but I REALLY do not want to modify beyond repair. (First, do no harm.)
3) Broach a keyway in the drive wheel and a LONG keyslot in the shaft. Ideal, but much more entailed than I THINK I need.??

* Your thoughts?


Blade: The blade is a Lennox 3/4" blade

Blade guides:
The blade side guides are cammed. After a thorough cleaning, I re-installed them and I intentionally opened the gap as far as possible. I ignorantly assumed they may be causing the derailment. I'll readjust them.?

* Am I correct in assuming the use of feeler gauges may be over kill here??
e.g. guide|blade|feeler gauge|guide
Where the feeler guage = total clearance/2

Bow weight:
EXCELLENT point on the Bow weight. I noticed the heft of the machine when lowering? the frame. I'll look into adjusting the spring. I never thought about using a luggage scale. I'll have to pick one of those up. As fast as the derail happens, and the amount of cutting that occurs just prior to that, I'd be willing to bet a combination of lack of roller guide support and weight is the culprit here. If that's the case, that is awesome. As it seems I'm quite close! Well, close to the next challenge anyway. :)

More to come, and as always, thank you for your feedback!
Darren

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 9:46 PM vreededesign@... [4x6bandsaw] <4x6bandsaw@...> wrote:
?

OK this is a long one:?


There are 3 adjustment that determine whether a blade will track on any bandsaw:

1.?? Blade tension

2.?? Driven wheel tilt

3.?? Drive wheel position on its axle

?

It helps to understand why these things matter:

Bimetal bandsaw blades are tensioned to 25-30,000psi stress, flexback carbon steel blades to 15-20,000psi.? That means a ?¡± wide bimetal blade, has about 300lb tension in it when tensioned properly. With a blade run on both sides of the wheels, that¡¯s 600lb force pulling the bandwheels together.? The sawframe casting flexes, any slack in bearings is pulled out, and axles and axle supports bend.? You can¡¯t set the tracking properly until you¡¯ve got the right tension in the blade.??It takes more than you think; on a 4x6 its about as much as a normal person can wind the 2?¡± diameter tension knob one handed, without any aids. It makes a real twang when plucked, not a dull thok.? Don¡¯t know what it will take on your 712, but if it¡¯s got a ?¡° blade, the tension will be half as much again as a ?¡± blade. ?You¡¯ll need to decide where full tension is, before you start tracking (see comments below on how to mark it)

?

The drive lands on the wheels of metal cutting bandsaws are a (very short) parallel cylinder, not crowned like a wood bandsaw.? The blade is supposed to run not quite touching both rims. The rims are just there to make the blade easier to put on, not to track the blade. The drive and driven wheels and bearings are manufactured to be parallel to each other when there is no tilt in the driven wheel.

?

However, when there is tension in the blade, the tension pulls the wheels out of parallel and the blade runs off. To counter this the driven wheel is tilted in at the top, which makes the blade track toward the rim on both wheels, more strongly at the driven wheel than on the drive wheel.

?

Broadly speaking, you adjust the tilt so that the back of the blade runs about 1/32¡± (1mm) away from the rim of the driven wheel and allow the sawband to find its own place on the bottom rim, then move the bottom rim on its shaft in or out until the back edge of the blade just doesn¡¯t touch the rim on the drive wheel when the blade is at full tension.

However there are a number of things to consider while doing this:

1. ??Tracking is tension dependent; the greater the tension the more the back edge of the blade moves away from the rim.

2.?? You can¡¯t change the tilt in the driven wheel without releasing the tension.

3.?? So, you must be able to re-tension the blade to the same value each time ¨C make a scratch with a scriber on one half of the tension mechanism and align the top edge of a piece of sticky tape with the scratch, stuck to the other half of the mechanism. It'll be different when you change blades as each is a slightly different loop length.

4.?? The roller blade guides do affect tracking a bit (will make it move in about 1/32¡± at top and 1/8¡± on bottom wheel, but its easier to track the blade without them in place ¨C so remove until you¡¯ve adjusted the blade to within 1/16¡± at top and 5/32¡± at bottom

5.?? The tracking is very sensitive to movement of the tilting set-screw. 1/6th turn changes it a lot near the correct point, less sensitive when just starting to tilt.

6.?? Start with set screw at ¡®no tilt¡¯ position (release blade tension, undo both bolts, back setscrew out, then tighten both bolts again, then turn setscrew back in until it touches).

7.?? It¡¯ll need at least ? turn in on set screw to start with so re-set the tilt with the set-screw half a turn in.

8.?? Tension blade so that the slack is just out of the blade, (i.e. no-where near full tension), and turn on/off quickly to see how the blade moves.? If it sits ok, then keep it running and slowly increase the blade tension and notice how it starts to move away from the rims.

9.?? If it still wants to move away from the driven wheel rim at less than full tension, increase the tilt another ? turn of the set screw each time, then 1/6th turn when you get near full tension, until the blade tracks ~1/16¡± from the rim of the driven wheel at full tension.?

10.? ?Don't worry about the drive wheel, unless it still derails even when the driven wheel tracks properly, that shows its way too far in on its shaft (N.B. see comment below about gearbox bearing failure)

11.?? Now move the driven wheel on its shaft until the back edge of the blade is ~5/32¡± from the rim

12.?? Re-install the roller blade guides and see if the blade tracks just clear (1/32¡±) of the rims.? Will be ok if it looks like its touching, but you can¡¯t hear any graunching noises (back edge of blade scraping hard on the rim).

?

That¡¯s about it, though the blade must be welded squarely (watch for uneven gap from back of blade to rim as the join passes over the driven wheel) and the gearbox output shaft bearing must be ok (if it¡¯s failed the output shaft will bend as the tension is increased, so the blade derails from the bottom wheel only, not the top one).? You have to keep the blade on before you can judge either of these, so try to make it track as above first.?

?

Don¡¯t be scared to move the drive wheel out, if it keeps derailing from the bottom when the top seems OK , though you do need to check that the gearbox output bearing hasn¡¯t failed? (they do it often enough and it could be the reason why it was sold). I see your drive wheel is pinned, 4x6¡¯s use a key and a set screw, you could use 243 Loctite until you get the position right, then re-pin it. ?243 Loctite is weak enough to be able to change the position of the drive wheel with heat and a gear puller to set the tracking, but even high strength Loctite won¡¯t be strong enough to drive when cutting metal.


Let us know how you get on - jv

Join [email protected] to automatically receive all group messages.