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Dagsê ZALangers ’n Advokaatvriend vra die volgende: ? Ek brand weer vas met woorde. Sou graag ’n sinvolle Afrikaanse vertaling vir die uitdrukking “trust and confidence” wou vind. ??Beide blyk “vertroue” te wees.??Daar word verduidelik dat “trust” meer met geloof in iets of iemand te doen het, terwyl “confidence” gebaseer is op feite of ervarings. ??Dus lei “trust” dikwels tot “confidence”. ? Enige voorstelle, asseblieftog? ? Groete Leona ________________________________ Leona Labuschagne Sworn translator of SA High Court and SATI-accredited conference interpreter +27 83?302 2632????? ?GMT +2 ?
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Hallo Leona
Ek kan jou nie help nie, maar daar is ’n interessante bespreking op LexisNexis:?
Dit lyk of dit in die konteks van werkgewer:werknemer gebruik word. Is dit ook jou vriend se konteks?
Ek het vir twee slim pêlle gevra en sal laat weet indien ek iets hoor. ??
Kind regards / Vriendelike groete
Elsabé Birkenmayer 082-372-1939
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On 08 Oct 2024, at 14:40, Leona Labuschagne via groups.io <leona@...> wrote:
Dagsê ZALangers ’n Advokaatvriend vra die volgende:? ? Ek brand weer vas met woorde. Sou graag ’n sinvolle Afrikaanse vertaling vir die uitdrukking “trust and confidence” wou vind.???Beide blyk “vertroue” te wees.??Daar word verduidelik dat “trust” meer met?geloof?in iets of iemand te doen het, terwyl “confidence” gebaseer is op feite of ervarings.???Dus lei “trust” dikwels tot “confidence”. ? Enige voorstelle, asseblieftog? ? Groete Leona ________________________________ Leona Labuschagne Sworn translator of SA High Court and SATI-accredited conference interpreter +27 83?302 2632????? ?GMT +2? ?
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Hallo Elsabe Baie dankie!? Ek stuur solank hierdie aan vir my vriend. Goedgaan L?????????? : - ) ? ________________________________ Leona Labuschagne Sworn translator of SA High Court and SATI-accredited conference interpreter +27 83?302 2632????? ?GMT +2 ? ? ? Hallo Leona Ek kan jou nie help nie, maar daar is ’n interessante bespreking op LexisNexis:? Dit lyk of dit in die konteks van werkgewer:werknemer gebruik word. Is dit ook jou vriend se konteks? Ek het vir twee slim pêlle gevra en sal laat weet indien ek iets hoor. ?? Kind regards / Vriendelike groete ? ? ? ?
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On 08 Oct 2024, at 14:40, Leona Labuschagne via groups.io <leona@...> wrote: ? ’n Advokaatvriend vra die volgende:? Ek brand weer vas met woorde. Sou graag ’n sinvolle Afrikaanse vertaling vir die uitdrukking “trust and confidence” wou vind.???Beide blyk “vertroue” te wees.??Daar word verduidelik dat “trust” meer met?geloof?in iets of iemand te doen het, terwyl “confidence” gebaseer is op feite of ervarings.???Dus lei “trust” dikwels tot “confidence”. Enige voorstelle, asseblieftog? ________________________________ Sworn translator of SA High Court and SATI-accredited conference interpreter +27 83?302 2632????? ?GMT +2?
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Whereas Iawyers make a living splitting hairs (I have that on authority of an experienced lawyer at SA’s largest law firm which charges around R4000/h); and whereas also that a judge once pointed out that unless a specific meaning is assigned to any term in a legal document, such word shall have the meaning stated in an ordinary dictionary, now therefore I ask the following questions: - Are we by any chance dealing with an instance of the common legal practice of attempting to cover and take into account all possibilities, events, eventualities and contingencies by means of repetitions, reduplications, reiterations and other verbosities such as “null and void”?
- As regards the translation into any other language, does our client in this case perhaps feel or sense or labour under the delusion that the translation must have as many words as the source language, or that if the source uses a rhetorical device, it is imperative and incumbent upon the translator must do likewise at all costs?
- If trust is based on some form of faith or belief in a person or other form of conviction, must or should it be assumed that (since it is held that, firstly, “confidence” is based on facts or experience, and secondly, that “trust” and “confidence” are not exact synonyms), that trust is not based on facts or experience? So what is it based on?
- Our client does not state where this distinction is postulated. Pity. It would have been interesting to explore the line of reasoning.
? My own response to the first three points is negative. As far as the terms under investigation are concerned, I see no difference between the meaning of following statements; only the formulation differs: “I trust our staff will find a satisfactory solution to this impasse” and “I am confident that our staff is competent to deal with this issue”. ? As regards trust leading to confidence, I do not see any difference between the following two sentences or prefer one to the other: ? “I trusted him to do the right thing, but since he failed to do it then I am not confident that he will do so now” and “I was confident that he would do the right thing, but since he failed to do it I don’t trust him to do so now”. ? Tony ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Leona Labuschagne via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 08 October 2024 14:40
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ZaLang] trust vs confidence in Afrikaans? Dagsê ZALangers ’n Advokaatvriend vra die volgende: ? Ek brand weer vas met woorde. Sou graag ’n sinvolle Afrikaanse vertaling vir die uitdrukking “trust and confidence” wou vind. ??Beide blyk “vertroue” te wees.??Daar word verduidelik dat “trust” meer met geloof in iets of iemand te doen het, terwyl “confidence” gebaseer is op feite of ervarings. ??Dus lei “trust” dikwels tot “confidence”. ? Enige voorstelle, asseblieftog? ? Groete Leona ________________________________ Leona Labuschagne Sworn translator of SA High Court and SATI-accredited conference interpreter +27 83?302 2632????? ?GMT +2 ?
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??? Het ek nou lekker gelag. En so ’n bietjie PTSD vanwe? die laaste keer wat ek ’n privaatheidsverklaring moes proeflees. ? Groete ?
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Van: [email protected] <[email protected]> Namens Tony Moen via groups.io
Verzonden: 08 October 2024 17:56
Aan: [email protected]
Onderwerp: Re: [ZaLang] trust vs confidence in Afrikaans? Whereas Iawyers make a living splitting hairs (I have that on authority of an experienced lawyer at SA’s largest law firm which charges around R4000/h); and whereas also that a judge once pointed out that unless a specific meaning is assigned to any term in a legal document, such word shall have the meaning stated in an ordinary dictionary, now therefore I ask the following questions: - Are we by any chance dealing with an instance of the common legal practice of attempting to cover and take into account all possibilities, events, eventualities and contingencies by means of repetitions, reduplications, reiterations and other verbosities such as “null and void”?
- As regards the translation into any other language, does our client in this case perhaps feel or sense or labour under the delusion that the translation must have as many words as the source language, or that if the source uses a rhetorical device, it is imperative and incumbent upon the translator must do likewise at all costs?
- If trust is based on some form of faith or belief in a person or other form of conviction, must or should it be assumed that (since it is held that, firstly, “confidence” is based on facts or experience, and secondly, that “trust” and “confidence” are not exact synonyms), that trust is not based on facts or experience? So what is it based on?
- Our client does not state where this distinction is postulated. Pity. It would have been interesting to explore the line of reasoning.
? My own response to the first three points is negative. As far as the terms under investigation are concerned, I see no difference between the meaning of following statements; only the formulation differs: “I trust our staff will find a satisfactory solution to this impasse” and “I am confident that our staff is competent to deal with this issue”. ? As regards trust leading to confidence, I do not see any difference between the following two sentences or prefer one to the other: ? “I trusted him to do the right thing, but since he failed to do it then I am not confident that he will do so now” and “I was confident that he would do the right thing, but since he failed to do it I don’t trust him to do so now”. ? Tony ? ? Dagsê ZALangers ’n Advokaatvriend vra die volgende: ? Ek brand weer vas met woorde. Sou graag ’n sinvolle Afrikaanse vertaling vir die uitdrukking “trust and confidence” wou vind. ??Beide blyk “vertroue” te wees.??Daar word verduidelik dat “trust” meer met geloof in iets of iemand te doen het, terwyl “confidence” gebaseer is op feite of ervarings. ??Dus lei “trust” dikwels tot “confidence”. ? Enige voorstelle, asseblieftog? ? Groete Leona ________________________________ Leona Labuschagne Sworn translator of SA High Court and SATI-accredited conference interpreter +27 83?302 2632????? ?GMT +2 ?
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Dankie, Charl. Het nogal stadig hieraan gewerk - en desondanks sien ek nou net wragtag nog ’n fout: that it is imperative (…) upon the translator must i.p.v, to. Kom jy dit ook soms oor dat jy iewers nadat jy sorgvuldig iets finaal uitgedruk en geproeflees het, en veral wanneer jy daardie geproefleesde papiere versamel om dit in die snippermandjie te gooi, ewe skielik iets sien wat jy misgekyk het (amper skryf ek: gemiskyk)? ? Ek het uit pure ergernis die ding hieronder hersien. Hierdie soort ding bevestig dat my besluit om nou op te hou om te vertaal reg is. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Charl Hattingh
Sent: Tuesday, 08 October 2024 18:44
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ZaLang] trust vs confidence in Afrikaans? ??? Het ek nou lekker gelag. En so ’n bietjie PTSD vanwe? die laaste keer wat ek ’n privaatheidsverklaring moes proeflees. ? Groete ? ? Whereas Iawyers make a living splitting hairs (I have that on authority of an experienced lawyer at SA’s largest law firm, which charges around R4000/h); and whereas also a judge once pointed out that unless a specific meaning is assigned to any term in a legal document, such word shall have the meaning stated in an ordinary dictionary, now therefore I ask the following questions: - Are we by any chance dealing with an instance of the common legal practice of attempting to cover and take into account all possibilities, events, eventualities and contingencies by means of repetitions, reduplications, reiterations and other verbosities such as “null and void”?
- As regards the translation into any other language, does our client in this case perhaps feel or sense or labour under the delusion that the translation must have as many words as the source language, or that if the source uses a rhetorical device, it is imperative and incumbent upon the translator to do likewise at all costs?
- If trust is based on some form of faith or belief in a person or other form of conviction, must or should it be assumed (since it is held that, firstly, “confidence” is based on facts or experience, and secondly, that “trust” and “confidence” are not exact synonyms), that trust is not based on facts or experience? So what is it based on?
- Our client does not state where this distinction is postulated. Pity. It would have been interesting to explore the line of reasoning.
? My own response to the first three points is negative. As far as the terms under investigation are concerned, I see no difference between the meaning of following statements; only the formulation differs: “I trust our staff will find a satisfactory solution to this impasse” and “I am confident that our staff is competent to deal with this issue”. ? As regards trust leading to confidence, I do not see any difference between the following two sentences or prefer one to the other: ? “I trusted him to do the right thing, but since he failed to do it then I am not confident that he will do so now” and “I was confident that he would do the right thing, but since he failed to do it I don’t trust him to do so now”. ? Tony ? ? Dagsê ZALangers ’n Advokaatvriend vra die volgende: ? Ek brand weer vas met woorde. Sou graag ’n sinvolle Afrikaanse vertaling vir die uitdrukking “trust and confidence” wou vind. ??Beide blyk “vertroue” te wees.??Daar word verduidelik dat “trust” meer met geloof in iets of iemand te doen het, terwyl “confidence” gebaseer is op feite of ervarings. ??Dus lei “trust” dikwels tot “confidence”. ? Enige voorstelle, asseblieftog? ? Groete Leona ________________________________ Leona Labuschagne Sworn translator of SA High Court and SATI-accredited conference interpreter +27 83?302 2632????? ?GMT +2 ?
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Nee wat, die uitdruk gebeur nie meer nie, tensy die kli?nt dit spesifiek versoek, of ek sal na ’n PDF kyk. Ek kan mos op ’n morele perdjie spring en sê dis vir omgewingsredes! ?Maar, ja, pas ná ek iets gestuur het, dan verskyn daardie fout wat ek gemis het in my geestesoog! ? Lekker aand. ?
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Van: [email protected] <[email protected]> Namens Tony Moen via groups.io
Verzonden: 08 October 2024 19:08
Aan: [email protected]
Onderwerp: Re: [ZaLang] trust vs confidence in Afrikaans? Dankie, Charl. Het nogal stadig hieraan gewerk - en desondanks sien ek nou net wragtag nog ’n fout: that it is imperative (…) upon the translator must i.p.v, to. Kom jy dit ook soms oor dat jy iewers nadat jy sorgvuldig iets finaal uitgedruk en geproeflees het, en veral wanneer jy daardie geproefleesde papiere versamel om dit in die snippermandjie te gooi, ewe skielik iets sien wat jy misgekyk het (amper skryf ek: gemiskyk)? ? Ek het uit pure ergernis die ding hieronder hersien. Hierdie soort ding bevestig dat my besluit om nou op te hou om te vertaal reg is. ? ? ? ??? Het ek nou lekker gelag. En so ’n bietjie PTSD vanwe? die laaste keer wat ek ’n privaatheidsverklaring moes proeflees. ? Groete ? ? Whereas Iawyers make a living splitting hairs (I have that on authority of an experienced lawyer at SA’s largest law firm, which charges around R4000/h); and whereas also a judge once pointed out that unless a specific meaning is assigned to any term in a legal document, such word shall have the meaning stated in an ordinary dictionary, now therefore I ask the following questions: - Are we by any chance dealing with an instance of the common legal practice of attempting to cover and take into account all possibilities, events, eventualities and contingencies by means of repetitions, reduplications, reiterations and other verbosities such as “null and void”?
- As regards the translation into any other language, does our client in this case perhaps feel or sense or labour under the delusion that the translation must have as many words as the source language, or that if the source uses a rhetorical device, it is imperative and incumbent upon the translator to do likewise at all costs?
- If trust is based on some form of faith or belief in a person or other form of conviction, must or should it be assumed (since it is held that, firstly, “confidence” is based on facts or experience, and secondly, that “trust” and “confidence” are not exact synonyms), that trust is not based on facts or experience? So what is it based on?
- Our client does not state where this distinction is postulated. Pity. It would have been interesting to explore the line of reasoning.
? My own response to the first three points is negative. As far as the terms under investigation are concerned, I see no difference between the meaning of following statements; only the formulation differs: “I trust our staff will find a satisfactory solution to this impasse” and “I am confident that our staff is competent to deal with this issue”. ? As regards trust leading to confidence, I do not see any difference between the following two sentences or prefer one to the other: ? “I trusted him to do the right thing, but since he failed to do it then I am not confident that he will do so now” and “I was confident that he would do the right thing, but since he failed to do it I don’t trust him to do so now”. ? Tony ? ? Dagsê ZALangers ’n Advokaatvriend vra die volgende: ? Ek brand weer vas met woorde. Sou graag ’n sinvolle Afrikaanse vertaling vir die uitdrukking “trust and confidence” wou vind. ??Beide blyk “vertroue” te wees.??Daar word verduidelik dat “trust” meer met geloof in iets of iemand te doen het, terwyl “confidence” gebaseer is op feite of ervarings. ??Dus lei “trust” dikwels tot “confidence”. ? Enige voorstelle, asseblieftog? ? Groete Leona ________________________________ Leona Labuschagne Sworn translator of SA High Court and SATI-accredited conference interpreter +27 83?302 2632????? ?GMT +2 ?
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Daar is natuurlik 'n verskil tussen hieronder en hier onder.
Sent from my phone
Nee wat, die uitdruk gebeur nie meer nie, tensy die kli?nt dit spesifiek versoek, of ek sal na ’n PDF kyk. Ek kan mos op ’n morele perdjie spring en sê dis vir omgewingsredes! ?Maar, ja, pas ná ek iets gestuur het, dan verskyn daardie fout wat ek gemis het in my geestesoog! ? Lekker aand. ? ? Dankie, Charl. Het nogal stadig hieraan gewerk - en desondanks sien ek nou net wragtag nog ’n fout: that it is imperative (…) upon the translator must i.p.v, to. Kom jy dit ook soms oor dat jy iewers nadat jy sorgvuldig iets finaal uitgedruk en geproeflees het, en veral wanneer jy daardie geproefleesde papiere versamel om dit in die snippermandjie te gooi, ewe skielik iets sien wat jy misgekyk het (amper skryf ek: gemiskyk)? ? Ek het uit pure ergernis die ding hieronder hersien. Hierdie soort ding bevestig dat my besluit om nou op te hou om te vertaal reg is. ? ? ? ??? Het ek nou lekker gelag. En so ’n bietjie PTSD vanwe? die laaste keer wat ek ’n privaatheidsverklaring moes proeflees. ? Groete ? ? Whereas Iawyers make a living splitting hairs (I have that on authority of an experienced lawyer at SA’s largest law firm, which charges around R4000/h); and whereas also a judge once pointed out that unless a specific meaning is assigned to any term in a legal document, such word shall have the meaning stated in an ordinary dictionary, now therefore I ask the following questions: - Are we by any chance dealing with an instance of the common legal practice of attempting to cover and take into account all possibilities, events, eventualities and contingencies by means of repetitions, reduplications, reiterations and other verbosities such as “null and void”?
- As regards the translation into any other language, does our client in this case perhaps feel or sense or labour under the delusion that the translation must have as many words as the source language, or that if the source uses a rhetorical device, it is imperative and incumbent upon the translator to do likewise at all costs?
- If trust is based on some form of faith or belief in a person or other form of conviction, must or should it be assumed (since it is held that, firstly, “confidence” is based on facts or experience, and secondly, that “trust” and “confidence” are not exact synonyms), that trust is not based on facts or experience? So what is it based on?
- Our client does not state where this distinction is postulated. Pity. It would have been interesting to explore the line of reasoning.
? My own response to the first three points is negative. As far as the terms under investigation are concerned, I see no difference between the meaning of following statements; only the formulation differs: “I trust our staff will find a satisfactory solution to this impasse” and “I am confident that our staff is competent to deal with this issue”. ? As regards trust leading to confidence, I do not see any difference between the following two sentences or prefer one to the other: ? “I trusted him to do the right thing, but since he failed to do it then I am not confident that he will do so now” and “I was confident that he would do the right thing, but since he failed to do it I don’t trust him to do so now”. ? Tony ? ? Dagsê ZALangers ’n Advokaatvriend vra die volgende: ? Ek brand weer vas met woorde. Sou graag ’n sinvolle Afrikaanse vertaling vir die uitdrukking “trust and confidence” wou vind. ??Beide blyk “vertroue” te wees.??Daar word verduidelik dat “trust” meer met geloof in iets of iemand te doen het, terwyl “confidence” gebaseer is op feite of ervarings. ??Dus lei “trust” dikwels tot “confidence”. ? Enige voorstelle, asseblieftog? ? Groete Leona ________________________________ Leona Labuschagne Sworn translator of SA High Court and SATI-accredited conference interpreter +27 83?302 2632????? ?GMT +2 ?
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Charl Hattingh