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Koigu shawl is done (now tensioning yarn)

 

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My tension has gotten oddly looser and looser over time.? It’s something I’ve been meaning to ask the Mongers about because socks just don’t wear as well when not knit at a tight gauge and I’m at the point where I’m lucky if I can get 7 stitches per inch using the same yarn (and smaller needles) than I used to be able to 8 spi effortlessly and up to 9 on smaller needles.? I’m just not willing to knit regularly with needles smaller than a size 0 so I really can’t keep going down in needle size.

?

Maybe tensioning around my neck will help?? I’m game to give it a try.

?

Melisande

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of PATTERSON, ELISABETH
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 2:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yarnmongers] Koigu shawl is done

?

Some years back in the Knitting Circle at my office (this is ATT and the club is called Fiber to the World) we had a Portuguese-American knitter who tensioned around her neck (she’d learned from relatives on a summer visit). She was blindingly fast and her tension was perfect. It was impressive and a bit intimidating at the same time.

?

Lise in NJ

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Melisande R. Wolf via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yarnmongers] Koigu shawl is done

?

I’m fascinated by this and need to watch the video.? I find that purling requires more movement from me than knitting since I purl with my thumb and knit with my finger (I am a Continental picker unless I’m doing stranded knitting, which is with two hands and bothers my shoulder a fair bit because of all the movement).?

?

I will also confess that I purl much more loosely than I knit.

?

Of course, I’m already imagining a dog getting tangled up in my knitting if I tension the yarn around my neck, especially Tzeelah, who prefers to spend my late evening knitting with as much of her in my lap as I can be persuaded to permit.

?

Melisande

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of mary_007usa via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yarnmongers] Koigu shawl is done

?

Love those energizing experiences!

In Peruvian knitting the yarn is tensioned through a knitting pin affixed to the left shoulder (for a right hander). In turkey or Greece, the yarn is usually tensioned around the neck.? One of the benefits is even tension between knit and purl. Purling is easier that knitting with this method.? I often do garter stitch by just purling every row, b/c required very little movement of the fingers and hands.

Andrea Wong, a proponent of the method demonstrates at around 1:35 min into this video:


One of the physical benefits from an occupational therapist's perspective is that the knitter never has to let go of the needles, which reduces stress on the hands and arms.? Both needles are always fully supported by the arms and shoulders.? If a knitter has a repetitive stress injury and is an English thrower, they must release the right needle to throw the yarn around the left needle and even that little bit of added weight and stress can prevent healing.

Mary.

 

Thanks for clarifying, Mary. I had always thought of this as Portuguese knitting. Andrea Wong used to attend Schoolhouse Press’s 2.75 Retreat (or maybe 3 as I went to that one also at some times).?

I used it to knit a whole sweater which i wanted to do in reverse stockinette.

Melisande,
When I knit by flicking with my right hand, my yarn is tensioned by my ring and pinkie fingers holding it against my palm. When my fingers flick forward, they loosen and then tighten as my index finger comes back.?
When I knit continental, I wrap the yarn around my pinkie finger on the left hand because my left hand doesn’t do this as consistently. This means I have to manually allow more more yarn as I knit. You should experiment with different ways of tensioning. Another thing you could do is do what the crocheters do. I try that sometimes. You wrap the yarn around your index finger a few times and then drop a loop when more yarn is needed.?
I think you’ll find you get a tighter tension with Portuguese knitting.

My loosest tension/gauge with the same needles and yarn is with Continental, then my right hand flicking and then Portuguese knitting.?

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 2:13 PM Melisande R. Wolf via Groups.Io <melisanderwolf=[email protected]> wrote:

My tension has gotten oddly looser and looser over time.? It’s something I’ve been meaning to ask the Mongers about because socks just don’t wear as well when not knit at a tight gauge and I’m at the point where I’m lucky if I can get 7 stitches per inch using the same yarn (and smaller needles) than I used to be able to 8 spi effortlessly and up to 9 on smaller needles.? I’m just not willing to knit regularly with needles smaller than a size 0 so I really can’t keep going down in needle size.

?

Maybe tensioning around my neck will help?? I’m game to give it a try.

?

Melisande

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of PATTERSON, ELISABETH
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 2:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yarnmongers] Koigu shawl is done

?

Some years back in the Knitting Circle at my office (this is ATT and the club is called Fiber to the World) we had a Portuguese-American knitter who tensioned around her neck (she’d learned from relatives on a summer visit). She was blindingly fast and her tension was perfect. It was impressive and a bit intimidating at the same time.

?

Lise in NJ

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Melisande R. Wolf via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yarnmongers] Koigu shawl is done

?

I’m fascinated by this and need to watch the video.? I find that purling requires more movement from me than knitting since I purl with my thumb and knit with my finger (I am a Continental picker unless I’m doing stranded knitting, which is with two hands and bothers my shoulder a fair bit because of all the movement).?

?

I will also confess that I purl much more loosely than I knit.

?

Of course, I’m already imagining a dog getting tangled up in my knitting if I tension the yarn around my neck, especially Tzeelah, who prefers to spend my late evening knitting with as much of her in my lap as I can be persuaded to permit.

?

Melisande

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of mary_007usa via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yarnmongers] Koigu shawl is done

?

Love those energizing experiences!

In Peruvian knitting the yarn is tensioned through a knitting pin affixed to the left shoulder (for a right hander). In turkey or Greece, the yarn is usually tensioned around the neck.? One of the benefits is even tension between knit and purl. Purling is easier that knitting with this method.? I often do garter stitch by just purling every row, b/c required very little movement of the fingers and hands.

Andrea Wong, a proponent of the method demonstrates at around 1:35 min into this video:


One of the physical benefits from an occupational therapist's perspective is that the knitter never has to let go of the needles, which reduces stress on the hands and arms.? Both needles are always fully supported by the arms and shoulders.? If a knitter has a repetitive stress injury and is an English thrower, they must release the right needle to throw the yarn around the left needle and even that little bit of added weight and stress can prevent healing.

Mary.

--
Jaya
 

Portuguese and Peruvian are one in the same!? Andrea Wong actually teaches them both, but those classes deal with the patterning.

I think Peruvian was the last course I took, so that was the one that stuck in my brain!

Mary.
 

Melisande,
I want to correct something I wrote. When I flick, the yarn is tensioned between my ring and pinkie fingers as well as hooking around my curled pinkie finger. I should try this on my left hand when I knit continental.

Also, I've heard that the Norwegian purl results in a more even purl/knit ratio vs the usual Continental purling. Something else for you to try.

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 5:47 PM Jaya <ermabom@...> wrote:
Thanks for clarifying, Mary. I had always thought of this as Portuguese knitting. Andrea Wong used to attend Schoolhouse Press’s 2.75 Retreat (or maybe 3 as I went to that one also at some times).?

I used it to knit a whole sweater which i wanted to do in reverse stockinette.

Melisande,
When I knit by flicking with my right hand, my yarn is tensioned by my ring and pinkie fingers holding it against my palm. When my fingers flick forward, they loosen and then tighten as my index finger comes back.?
When I knit continental, I wrap the yarn around my pinkie finger on the left hand because my left hand doesn’t do this as consistently. This means I have to manually allow more more yarn as I knit. You should experiment with different ways of tensioning. Another thing you could do is do what the crocheters do. I try that sometimes. You wrap the yarn around your index finger a few times and then drop a loop when more yarn is needed.?
I think you’ll find you get a tighter tension with Portuguese knitting.

My loosest tension/gauge with the same needles and yarn is with Continental, then my right hand flicking and then Portuguese knitting.?

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 2:13 PM Melisande R. Wolf via Groups.Io <melisanderwolf=[email protected]> wrote:

My tension has gotten oddly looser and looser over time.? It’s something I’ve been meaning to ask the Mongers about because socks just don’t wear as well when not knit at a tight gauge and I’m at the point where I’m lucky if I can get 7 stitches per inch using the same yarn (and smaller needles) than I used to be able to 8 spi effortlessly and up to 9 on smaller needles.? I’m just not willing to knit regularly with needles smaller than a size 0 so I really can’t keep going down in needle size.

?

Maybe tensioning around my neck will help?? I’m game to give it a try.

?

Melisande

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of PATTERSON, ELISABETH
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 2:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yarnmongers] Koigu shawl is done

?

Some years back in the Knitting Circle at my office (this is ATT and the club is called Fiber to the World) we had a Portuguese-American knitter who tensioned around her neck (she’d learned from relatives on a summer visit). She was blindingly fast and her tension was perfect. It was impressive and a bit intimidating at the same time.

?

Lise in NJ

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Melisande R. Wolf via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yarnmongers] Koigu shawl is done

?

I’m fascinated by this and need to watch the video.? I find that purling requires more movement from me than knitting since I purl with my thumb and knit with my finger (I am a Continental picker unless I’m doing stranded knitting, which is with two hands and bothers my shoulder a fair bit because of all the movement).?

?

I will also confess that I purl much more loosely than I knit.

?

Of course, I’m already imagining a dog getting tangled up in my knitting if I tension the yarn around my neck, especially Tzeelah, who prefers to spend my late evening knitting with as much of her in my lap as I can be persuaded to permit.

?

Melisande

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of mary_007usa via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [yarnmongers] Koigu shawl is done

?

Love those energizing experiences!

In Peruvian knitting the yarn is tensioned through a knitting pin affixed to the left shoulder (for a right hander). In turkey or Greece, the yarn is usually tensioned around the neck.? One of the benefits is even tension between knit and purl. Purling is easier that knitting with this method.? I often do garter stitch by just purling every row, b/c required very little movement of the fingers and hands.

Andrea Wong, a proponent of the method demonstrates at around 1:35 min into this video:


One of the physical benefits from an occupational therapist's perspective is that the knitter never has to let go of the needles, which reduces stress on the hands and arms.? Both needles are always fully supported by the arms and shoulders.? If a knitter has a repetitive stress injury and is an English thrower, they must release the right needle to throw the yarn around the left needle and even that little bit of added weight and stress can prevent healing.

Mary.

--
Jaya


--
Jaya
 

Mel and Lise,??? I tried tensioning around my neck and it wasn't smooth enough for me (it felt creepy too.).? Try it with the yarn pinned.? Just attach a paper clip to a safety pin.? Pin that configuration to your below your left shoulder.? Use your slickest needle for a good glide.? Very cool to see Angela Wong perform two color knitting with a pin on each shoulder.? The yarns never tangle with Portuguese/Peruvian which is such a boon for the two color knitter.? Knitting pins are easy to source, but a simple paper clip rig is a great way to try the technique.

i've spent close to a year, trying different methods of knitting to search for a comfortable style.? It's daunting to change how you deliver the yarn.? Our hands are so constrained by muscle memory, but the learning curve with this method was very achievable.

I've also flirted with this flicking method that Very Pink demonstrates:?

She's got a second video that goes more deeply into how she flicks.? I want to learn how to do this because, again, both hands stay on the needle.? So much better for compromised hands and arms.? I'm very clumsy at it, though.? I want to go back to it.? It's another super fast method and Very Pink's variant seems to be one of the most efficient flicking methods I've seen.? I tried it on wooden needles with acrylic yarn, so that might have been what held me up.

When I do two color knitting, I use continental.? During my year long exploration of knitting methods I changed my continental hold a little.? I had always held my left index finger aloft.? I was just getting too stiff doing this.? I've learned to keep it barely off the needle with my hands very close tot he tips of the needles.? That's made continental much for comfortable for longer knitting sessions and it also snugged up m purling a bit.

I am sad to say, now that I've been knitting again,? my sewing time has been severely curtailed.? I still have the tweed coat on the dressmaker dummy, waiting through another winter.? I've got two spring tops and three pairs of pants that need little alterations.? I love sewing very much, but I think I will always love knitting more.

Mary.
 

Jaya,? I so want to learn flicking.? It's just so efficient.? I've tried the tensioning methods you mention, but haven't settled on one yet.?? I know I should use the ring finger/pinkie tensioning methods b/c it makes perfect sense to me, but I tend to really cramp that left hand into a death grip.? That will take some practice time to zen out and relax that hand.

Very Pink talks about how she learned to flick.? Like you with Portuguese style, she used a project to force herself to practice flicking and succeeded.

I love Fair Isle so much that I simply must adopt either Portuguese or flicking to ensure I can knit all of the projects, all the time!

Mary.
 

I just watched her video and she's got a couple of inefficiencies in there. One is that her index finger is held high up. That is tiring. I hold my fingers a lot closer to the needle and my hands in a normal curled position at rest. The second is that she's pinching the right needle. That again is no ergonomic. I rest it in the hammock between my thumb and index finger.?

The yarn goes straight from the stitch to my curled up middle, ring and pinkie fingers. The index finger is loosely holding the needle and is between the yarn and the needle. The thumb holds the needle steady but it is supported at all times. My thumb and index finger help insert the needle into the new stitch and then the index finger flicks forward which lifts the yarn over?the needle tip. Then it goes back to its resting position and my left index finger and thumb guide the needle point to make the new stitch. I don't push with my left index finger either except when my left hand needle stitches are spread out too much on the needle.?

I'll have to get DH to video tape it

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:34 AM mary_007usa via Groups.Io <sewgood5=[email protected]> wrote:
Jaya,? I so want to learn flicking.? It's just so efficient.? I've tried the tensioning methods you mention, but haven't settled on one yet.?? I know I should use the ring finger/pinkie tensioning methods b/c it makes perfect sense to me, but I tend to really cramp that left hand into a death grip.? That will take some practice time to zen out and relax that hand.

Very Pink talks about how she learned to flick.? Like you with Portuguese style, she used a project to force herself to practice flicking and succeeded.

I love Fair Isle so much that I simply must adopt either Portuguese or flicking to ensure I can knit all of the projects, all the time!

Mary.



--
Jaya
 

Jaya,

Have him do it!? I want to see how you execute it.? I agree about holding that index finger high - not good. ? When you rest the right needle in the hammock between your index finger and thumb, do your hand leave the needle as you flick???

Very Pink pinches that right needle to form the pivot so she can deliver the yarn.? I don't see any other way of? keeping my hand on the right needles while getting the yarn through the stitch.? In your refinement, does your right hand just glide toward the tip of the needles as you deliver the yarn?

Mary.
 

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Finally got a chance to look at this. Turns out I am a ‘flicker’ already - though I keep my finger much closer to the needle. (She probably does as well when not knitting as a demo.) Also, I do not pinch the right needle but just gently stabilize between thumb and index finger. Force is almost nonexistent when knitting with square needles, making for a smooth and easy pivot. All that said, I find tensioning is not as easy on the arms as knitting left-handed with the yarn held just above the needle tip?(which I taught myself to do by knitting a bonus body) and wrapped by subtly swirling the left ± needle, not moving the yarn. However, I find purling right-handed blindingly easier than left-handed so still use a goodly bit.

My working yarn is typically looped around my pinkie when knitting right-handed, but I have found that to create too much drag when I knit left-handed. Instead, when knitting with yarn on left, I just let yarn drag between pinkie and right finger at the web. The former might be a nice solution to tension without cramping out from a tight grip.?

Very appreciative of the yarn pin hack to allow test-driving Peruvian/Portugese knitting. Need to finish something so I can try it out with a new project!?


jacqui

Computers are useless. They can only give you?answers.
-Pablo Picasso

On Feb 26, 2020, at 8:25 AM, mary_007usa via Groups.Io <sewgood5@...> wrote:
Very Pink pinches that right needle to form the pivot so she can deliver the yarn.? I don't see any other way of? keeping my hand on the right needles while getting the yarn through the stitch.? In your refinement, does your right hand just glide toward the tip of the needles as you deliver the yarn?


Jaya,? I so want to learn flicking.? It's just so efficient.? I've tried the tensioning methods you mention, but haven't settled on one yet.?? I know I should use the ring finger/pinkie tensioning methods b/c it makes perfect sense to me, but I tend to really cramp that left hand into a death grip.? That will take some practice time to zen out and relax that hand.


Mel and Lise,??? I tried tensioning around my neck and it wasn't smooth enough for me (it felt creepy too.).? Try it with the yarn pinned.? Just attach a paper clip to a safety pin.? Pin that configuration to your below your left shoulder.? Use your slickest needle for a good glide.? Very cool to see Angela Wong perform two color knitting with a pin on each shoulder.? The yarns never tangle with Portuguese/Peruvian which is such a boon for the two color knitter.? Knitting pins are easy to source, but a simple paper clip rig is a great way to try the technique.

i've spent close to a year, trying different methods of knitting to search for a comfortable style.? It's daunting to change how you deliver the yarn.? Our hands are so constrained by muscle memory, but the learning curve with this method was very achievable.

I've also flirted with this flicking method that Very Pink demonstrates:?

She's got a second video that goes more deeply into how she flicks.? I want to learn how to do this because, again, both hands stay on the needle.? So much better for compromised hands and arms.? I'm very clumsy at it, though.? I want to go back to it.? It's another super fast method and Very Pink's variant seems to be one of the most efficient flicking methods I've seen.? I tried it on wooden needles with acrylic yarn, so that might have been what held me up.

When I do two color knitting, I use continental.? During my year long exploration of knitting methods I changed my continental hold a little.? I had always held my left index finger aloft.? I was just getting too stiff doing this.? I've learned to keep it barely off the needle with my hands very close tot he tips of the needles.? That's made continental much for comfortable for longer knitting sessions and it also snugged up m purling a bit.

I am sad to say, now that I've been knitting again,? my sewing time has been severely curtailed.? I still have the tweed coat on the dressmaker dummy, waiting through another winter.? I've got two spring tops and three pairs of pants that need little alterations.? I love sewing very much, but I think I will always love knitting more.

Mary.
 

Jacqui,

Flicking in your way is on my list of techniques I want to learn.? Keeping fingers low to the needle is hard at first, but is definitely worth it.? VeryPink clamps the yarn in her left ring finger and pinky so hard, surely it must cramp!

I've always been 100% project knitter, but over the last three years, the process of delivering yarn to the needle has been a worthwhile exploration for me.

Maryl
 

Yes, keeping?the fingers close to the needle tips makes for both speed and comfort. I noticed that I keep my hands further back when doing magic loop on small diameters?- i was knitting?boot cuffs last.?

I am going to CO a hat for a mini-workshop this month at the guild so I'll have DH film that once I get it going. On larges pieces, I tend to hold the work closer to the tips.

HOWEVER, I notice that even though my hands are relaxed, as I've aged, I sometimes feel as if they are permanently curled up! I stop to stretch them and my forearms often. My forearm muscles are the ones that get sore when I knit for a long time. But I rarely knit anything very heavy any more unless it is supported in my lap. If I let such things hang, even pinned to my garments, my wrists get sore.

On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 8:03 AM mary_007usa via Groups.Io <sewgood5=[email protected]> wrote:
Jacqui,

Flicking in your way is on my list of techniques I want to learn.? Keeping fingers low to the needle is hard at first, but is definitely worth it.? VeryPink clamps the yarn in her left ring finger and pinky so hard, surely it must cramp!

I've always been 100% project knitter, but over the last three years, the process of delivering yarn to the needle has been a worthwhile exploration for me.

Maryl



--
Jaya

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