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Re: Kurzweil MIDIboard: poly pressure vs. CS-80
In a message dated 10/1/04 8:17:00 AM, lord@... writes: My understanding is that many manufacturers don't bother to implement poly aftertouch Actually, many manufacturers don't implement PolyAT because of: 1) the cost- you need separate sensors for each key; 2) Ensoniq (?) has a patent regarding PolyAT that they refuse to license; 3) back in the old days computers (and many synths) could not handle the glut of midi data. Nowadays, processors can handle things with ease- MIDI is practically an afterthought with all the audio/softsynth data going thru computers these days. I have been using PolyAT keyboards for nearly two years (and the MIDIBoard for over a year) and I have NEVER had any problems with timing or jitter. The DSI PolyEvolver actually has an algorithm where it "smooths out" the PolyAT data (someone here who is an engineer may explain it better). Definitely don't hesitate to score a PolyAT controller- MidiBoard, GEM S2/S3, etc. I have never played a T8 but have heard it is NICE. The Ensoniq stuff needs to be taken on a board-by-board basis, some of them have PolyAT, others don't. Respectfully submitted, -Marshall |
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Kurzweil MIDIboard: poly pressure vs. CS-80
I had a question for anyone who's got experience with both the CS-80
and the MIDIBoard. For me, the best part of the CS-80 is the keyboard: the feel, the velocity sensing and the pressure sensing. I love how the pressure has the rubber bits under the keys that squish down about 1/16" or more as you press harder. I used to have a Roland A-80, which I got mostly because it had poly- pressure. I still think the A-80 had about the best piano action I've ever played, but the pressure sensing was horrible. The problem (besides the senstivity, which could mostly be fixed) was that the keys didn't move any after the initial bottoming out. There was zero physical feedback, unlike the Yamaha. I had the same problem with an Ensoniq SQ-80 (actually, I hated everything about the keyboard on it). So, what about the MIDIBoard? I haven't seen one in many years and don't remember the feel. How does it compare to the CS-80? Even better - anyone using one to control the CS80v program? Does it respond like the real thing? They pop up on eBay once in a while, so I'm wondering if one would be worth going after. Any other poly-pressure keyboards to report on (Prophet T8, GEM S2/3)? David |
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Re: Kurzweil MIDIboard: poly pressure vs. CS-80
In a message dated 9/30/04 10:06:37 PM, david@... writes: I had a question for anyone who's got experience with both the CS-80 The CS-80 has a light enough touch for "synth" playing, but the best thing is the piano-like keys: somehow the mass of the keyboard allows you to REALLY play the Poly AT. I owned one for about a year, sold it because I couldn't deal with the maintenance and tuning issues- it went to a better home where a real vintage synth nut could put in the proper time it needed. I used to have a Roland A-80, which I got mostly because it had poly- I also used to own an A-80, and sold it for the same reason: Excellent piano touch, very bad implementation of poly AT. You needed hands of steel to get it to do anything, despite changing sensitivity internally or even doing the Roland-approved mods to make it more sensitive- and with the "concrete feel" of the AT bed, it was difficult to control.
How best to put this? F#%@^%@ing YES!!!!! Now that I have secured mine, I can let out the secret: Short of actually owning a mint CS-80, the Kurz MidiBoard is simply the absolutely best implementation of controlling Poly AT ever made. The piano touch is good- not quite as good as an A-80 (which I feel was one of the best, even better than many boards that came after it) but the MidiBoard has that same spongy "give" that makes it easy to control Poly AT, even if you are using your 5th digit to bring out one note. The only caveat is that the MidiBoard was made for a number of years- there were three OS revisions, and you DEFINITELY want the latest, 3.0; It is nearly impossible to update early versions. In addition, the actual keyboard mechanism was changed late in its run, to a "Suzuki" piano action which was a vast improvement over the original. I can give you more details privately if you want. I am using it to control the CS-80V (as well as various softsynths, and a PolyEvolver) and to say I love it is an understatement! The CS-80V does a "decent" job of emulating a real CS-80, but of course it pales in direct comparison. Still, it is good enough for me.....the MidiBoard does an excellent job of interacting with the CS-80V software to really make it respond to playing technique. The only major bummer is that the virtual ribbon (controlled by pitch wheel in the software) does not drive the oscillators down to zero like the real thing. It has been suggested to fix this in the next software revision. In addition to the MidiBoard, I also have a Peavey 1600x and a Kurzweil ExpressionMate ribbon controller sitting on top of it. Yeah, I really WOULD love it if Crow came out with a rackmount modern analog CS-80! Needless to say, the fact that the Alesis Andromeda does NOT respond to PolyAT is one of the biggest gear disappointments I have ever experienced.... Any other poly-pressure keyboards to report on (Prophet T8, GEM S2/3)? Prior to finding the MidiBoard, I did use a GEM S3 for quite awhile- it has a synth-weighted keybed, and the PolyAT is not quite as spongy, but it is very usable. It is built like a tank, has 7 midi-assignable sliders, and it is nice having the 76 keys- makes a great overall synth controller. It was also not a great seller, so people let them go pretty cheaply (I bought/sold mine for $350). The only downside to the Gem S2/S3 is that there is volatile RAM, so once you set up a "performance" to control a CS-80V (assigning sliders, PolyAT, etc.) it needs to be saved to 3" floppy disk (remember those) so that it can reload on boot-up. Pray the floppy drive never fails, or you will have to manually change the settings each time you turn it on. Sorry for rambling.....! -Marshall |
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Re: Update/questions about repairs:
I'd say you're looking at the Black Elephant Hyde or Black Mesa/Tarus.
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The Tartan is only effective if you have found a wellspring of bagpipe sounds in your CS-80... Pat In a message dated 9/30/2004 1:00:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "David Rogoff" <david@...> writes:
I'm starting to do the electronic repairs and refurbishing on my '80 |
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Update/questions about repairs:
I'm starting to do the electronic repairs and refurbishing on my '80
(replace CMOS chips, add bypass caps, etc). In addition, I am planning to replace the Tolex. It's not horrible, but it's not great, either. So, what color should I use? I've found these two sites: Anyone have comments on these places or suggestions for others? Which pattern matches the original best? Black Tolex/ASC02, Black ASC08, or Black Elephant Hyde ASC44? Is there a market for a purple CS-80 (ASC43)? How about a red one (ASC45) to match your Nord gear? Any '80s metal bands looking for a mint CS-80 in snakeskin (ASC34)? I'll probably go with black, although the purple would look very cool. The strangest is the Tartan tolex on the second web site. I can't even picture it. If I am tempted to try it, I would ask that someone take the CS-80 away from me until I get better. David |
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cs80 kenton midi kit install
Jim Josev
Hey group,
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This is my first post! I have a CS-80 and the Kenton MIDI kit. Thing is I don't have it installed! I live in northern NJ and am thinking about sending ot to EARS in NYC for the installation. Is there any CS80 techs around the tri-state area that can help me? I would rather not haul it to the pot-hole infested streets of NYC and detuned it during the car ride home..
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BTW I love vintage Vangelis, new age, darkwave, industrial (Noise Unit, Front line Assembly) and as a hobby work on similar type of music..?
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Any help would be great....
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Best,
Jim
Do you Yahoo!? - Send 10MB messages! |
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My CS80 photo with stand as promised...
Hi chaps.
A long delay but better late than never eh? I have now uploaded a photo of my CS80 with the custom stand I was talking about a while ago, I was worried about overheating issues as the stand covers the vent slots (loosely though - so there is still air circulation)... Cheers. TOM |
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Re: MIDI9
--- In yamahacs80@..., "rreprobate" <rreprobate@y...>
wrote: 80 Loversnot interfere with the action of the key. So it sounds like it's justa matter of finding the place to stick it.Max, I don't see any point to this: You're only going to get note and velocity (initial touch) output. You won't have the poly- pressure/after touch, ribbon, any knobs, or program change. I guess if it's cheap and easy to install (both unlikely), it could be handy for layering a sound module in parallel with the CS80's sound. David |
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Re: Hello, and part question
--- In yamahacs80@..., The Old Crow <oldcrow@o...> wrote:
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004, rreprobate wrote:planning onA few of my tuning trimmers have seen better days and I'm suitablereplacing them. Does anybody have modern part numbers for beforereplacements. I went through my catalogs but had a mind-meltdown &handler=data.listcategory&Ne=100&terms=3309W&Ntt=*3309W*&Ns=MfgrPartI was sure I had found the right part. I'd be thrilled. I need toI suggest the Bourns 3309-series for drop-in replacements: Number%7c%7cSField&N=65251&crc=true for 3309W. Crow, thanks for the info. On a related note, based on your service notes, I just ordered a ton of 40XX CMOS parts from DigiKey to update the under-keyboard boards. I also wanted to order 14/16 pin DIP sockets and bypass caps, but I couldn't tell from the web site which ones to get (e.g. machined sockets, what physical size caps). Do you have specific part numbers/links for these? Also, about your site - I downloaded each scanned .gif of the manuals you have. Here's a tip that makes things much easier: in irfanview, I loaded all the gifs and then saved it as a single multi- page tif file. This makes is easier to deal with and let me print them as one document. If there's no issue replicating your content (Yamaha's content?), I'll put the .tif in the Files page of this site. David |
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Re: Hello, and part question
I suggest the Bourns 3309-series for drop-in replacements:
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Mouser.com carries them (3309W type): If that URL doesn't work just go to www.mouser.com and search for 3309W. Crow /**. On Sat, 11 Sep 2004, rreprobate wrote:
A few of my tuning trimmers have seen better days and I'm planning on |
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MIDI9
rreprobate
80 Lovers
Does anybody have any idea how feasible it is to install one of those midi9/Gulbransen midi kits on an 80? These were intended for pianos and rhodes I believe. Kyle Jarger told me that he had seen an 80 once that had a kit like this installed. My main concern would be how it affects the existing hardware, and whether it affects the existing aftertouch sensors, etc. They claim that it is an optical sensor that does not interfere with the action of the key. So it sounds like it's just a matter of finding the place to stick it. If you wanted the 80 as a controller, this seems a safer bet than trying to interface with the rather esoteric scanning already in there. Anyone? Thanks! Cheers Max |
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Hello, and part question
rreprobate
Hello gang.
It's great to have found the hang for us cs-80 owners/players/hackers. Just breezed through the archives and my mind is still working on trying to reconstruct the crime scene in which cope trashes thighpaul's 80. My 80 is in great shape and I play it often. A few of my tuning trimmers have seen better days and I'm planning on replacing them. Does anybody have modern part numbers for suitable replacements. I went through my catalogs but had a mind-meltdown before I was sure I had found the right part. I'd be thrilled. I need to replace a few of the open foot setting pots. Cheers Max |
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Reminder about group features/Welcome for new members
Hi all.
It's been a few weeks, so here's a quick reminder about what's available in this Yahoo CS80 group, in addition to messages. Under Files, I've got three mp3s of tunes featuring CS80. They're pretty low bit rate to make the files small. Please suggest other songs that show off the CS80. Under Database, I created a really simple, easy to use, list of CS80s known to people on the list. Please take a minute and enter your keyboards! It's very quick and easy. Under Links, I have bunch of links to info about the CS80, both technical and about artists who use them. Please send me other links to add! The Photos section has a picture of Stephen Teller's and my CS80s (many more of mine, inside and out, at www.therogoffs.com/cs80/). Feel free to put in some pics of instruments, or people (including you) playing. And, for those of you who deal with this list via email, don't forget to check the site at . In addtion to the stuff I just listed, you can also see an archive of past messages. Please send me any suggestions about changes or additions to this site to make it better and more useful. Thanks, David |
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Re: Good CS-80 Tech In LA or Ventura county
Thats good news, at least for you guys in the US as Kevin is stated as "no
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longer fixing CS80s due to inherent problems and complexity of the unit" in Vintage Synthesizers. If theres a skilled tech I could think of spontaneously, its him. Stephen #1 "Human beings are a disease, the cancer of this planet, youre a plague. And we are the cure." (Agent Smith / Matrix) Visit the official [ramp] website at www.doombient.com ----- Original Message -----
From: "STEPHEN TELLER" <s.teller@...> To: <yamahacs80@...> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:44 PM Subject: [yamahacs80] Re:Good CS-80 Tech In LA or Ventura county I've actually spoken to Kevin about the unit. He's cool with fixing it though I would obviously have to take the trek and visit him in his Geodesic Dome house. I guess that's where I vote for an updated lighter unit : ) Somebody must know someone! Stephen #2 On Sep 2, 2004, at 7:09 AM, yamahacs80@... wrote: Subject: Re: Re: Good CS-80 Tech In LA or Ventura county Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: Good CS-80 Tech In LA or Ventura county
I've actually spoken to Kevin about the unit. He's cool with fixing it
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though I would obviously have to take the trek and visit him in his Geodesic Dome house. I guess that's where I vote for an updated lighter unit : ) Somebody must know someone! Stephen #2 On Sep 2, 2004, at 7:09 AM, yamahacs80@... wrote:
Subject: Re: Re: Good CS-80 Tech In LA or Ventura county |
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Re: Good CS-80 Tech In LA or Ventura county
Kevin Lightner most likely will shut all his doors, board up all his windows
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and put a huge sign that reads "abandoned" in his garden... I think he wont be touching a CS80 by any means. Stephen "Human beings are a disease, the cancer of this planet, youre a plague. And we are the cure." (Agent Smith / Matrix) Visit the official [ramp] website at www.doombient.com ----- Original Message -----
From: "David Rogoff" <david@...> To: <yamahacs80@...> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:18 PM Subject: [yamahacs80] Re: Good CS-80 Tech In LA or Ventura county --- In yamahacs80@..., STEPHEN TELLER <s.teller@v...> |
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Re: Good CS-80 Tech In LA or Ventura county
--- In yamahacs80@..., STEPHEN TELLER <s.teller@v...>
wrote: Hi,Stephen, where are you? I used to live in Thousand Oaks and Agoura Hills. I'm now in Irvine, but it's not totally out of the question to head up the 405/101. Kevin Lightner is somewhere up in the mountains near Big Bear these days. My CS-80 has some minor issues I need repaired. The pitchThat's a piece of cake: two screws on the bottom to lift the panel, and then a few holding in the ribbon. May need to solder. You can see it in this picture: www.therogoffs.com/cs80/CS80%20001.html. I have 3 or 4 keysMight be simple mechanical thing. Should be easy to track. I have one voice card that is intermittent.Need more details. Due to theThe problem is that is would probably take one visit to fix the easy stuff and diagnose the rest. If it needs parts, it would take another visit. David |
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Good CS-80 Tech In LA or Ventura county
Hi,
Does anyone know of a good CS-80 tech in the Los Angeles / Ventura County area? My CS-80 has some minor issues I need repaired. The pitch ribbon needs to be replaced(I have an extra one). I have 3 or 4 keys that continuously put out full aftertouch if they are pressed with another key. I have one voice card that is intermittent. Due to the weight of this beast I would pay extra for a house call. Thanks Stephen Teller Stephen Teller Music 805/480-9614 s.teller@... www.stephentellermusic.com |
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Re: Pics
--- In yamahacs80@..., "David Rogoff" <david@t...> wrote:
For anyone interested, I took a bunchOH MY GOODNESS. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE KEYS??!?!?? oh. phew. |
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