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Hi Dave,

I had a friend of mine who is cs80 savvy come by and take a look at it. He opened the case, took a look below the keys, to check and clean things up. He found a piece of glitter and we thought that could have caused it, since the machine started working again. Since then, I think it was the 17th of Dec, I was able to play with no problem on a daily basis.

Then a couple of hours ago, I turned it on and same problem, the lowest octave stopped working again out of the blue. So I turned it off. A few minutes ago I decided to give it one more try, so I turned it on and now it works again. And I did not tamper or shake anything. Any guess of what does this mean.

Btw, I noticed this happening once again a few months ago... where the lowest octave would not work then a few hours later it worked. Any ideas?

Thanks ahead and Happy New Year!

Constantin


--- In yamahacs80@..., David Rogoff wrote:

Hi Constantin.

Welcome to the group. Sounds like it's probably a simple problem. If you look at the giant, overall schematic ( ), you'll see in the upper left corner that the keyboard is scanned as a matrix, like a computer keyboard, from the KAS chip. The low octave (not counting the lowest C, which has its own special pin) all have the U1 signal in common from the KAS chip / board. If you look at the KAS circuit board layout ( ), on the right edge of the board, about a dozen pins from the top, is this signal, U1. According to the invaluable wiring labels, this is a red shielded wire that connects to C1 - the lowest key. You can see the wires on the circuit board at the back of the keys that holds the metal key contacts. You'll see that each circuit board hold 6 keys except C1, which is all by itself. Since that key works and the next octave doesn't, it looks like the jumped wire that connects U1 from that little C1 board over to the board next to it is broken.

If you're somewhat familiar with electronics and know how to open up the lid, this should be pretty easy to check. If not, find someone who is!

Good luck,

David


On Dec 3, 2012, at 9:12 PM, "Constantin" wrote:

Hi there,

My CS80 was working fine until today, when I noticed the lower octave stopped triggering any sound. All other keys, ribbon and knobs work great.

More specifically, the lowest C key on the left of the keyboard works but every key after D, E, F, G, A, B, C (and the respective black keys) does not trigger any sound. The second octave (after C) and all other keys work just fine.

If anyone has experienced something similar and was able to fix it, would love to hear back. Also any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time,

Constantin




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Hi Gregor,

I would imagine that most people would not go too mad on this value
really. I would worry more about initial vca trims on Trig 1 and 2
boards and then use vr14 on the m boards as a final tweak in a
calibration process.

--- In yamahacs80@..., "willgregori"
wrote:

Dear CS-80 friends,

while tuning my CS-80 according to Yamaha?s adjustment procedure I
wonder about the VCA #4 gain value (step 4 on page 15). This VCA

sets

the individual output level of each Voiceboard.

According to the manual it should be adjusted with VR14 to 80mV pp.

This is ridicoulus low and my CS-80 came with a much higher level

on

each card, so I am not sure if the value in the manual is correct.

As I understand, increasing the output level of each card would

result

into a better S/N ratio but could overload the following output

stages

(PRA, Effect section etc.) if set too high, especially when playing

8

voices together.

Has anybody figured out already if those 80mV are accurate or if it

is

recommended to adjust to a higher value here? To my feeling

something

between 200 and 400mV should be more useful,

Thanks, Gregor

On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:46 AM, "Quazimodo" wrote:

When you say "full re-chip" David are you also including all the custom IG and YM chips?

Nope - just the 4000 CMOS and the op-amps.

Where on earth would you find them all..?

That's my problem: I've been limiting my search to earth :)

On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:46 AM, "Quazimodo" wrote:

When you say "full re-chip" David are you also including all the custom IG and YM chips?

Nope - just the 4000 CMOS and the op-amps.

Where on earth would you find them all..?

That's my problem: I've been limiting my search to earth :)

I (and others) had given ideas as to what areas might be responsible. Since it's intermittent, might be time for some (careful) wiggling of wires and maybe some cold spray and/or heat gun to try and trigger the problem.

One thing I have seen in the last few CS80s I've worked on is that they all seem to be hitting an age now where lots of parts (caps, chips) are starting to go bad much more than I've ever seen. I think any I work on in the future that need anything more than a simple tuning is going to make me require the owner to pretty much agree to a full re-chip/cap. Yeah, it's expensive (and a pain in the ass to do - my hand is already getting numb from the motor in my Hakko desoldering gun) but the alternative is tracing bugs forever and possibly (likely?) triggering other already on the edge failures in the process with lots of power cycling.

Anyway, let us know what you find out!

David

On Jan 8, 2013, at 6:44 PM, "Constantin" wrote:

Hi Kent,

Thanks for your answer. I forgot to mention that the second instance this happened, it was very persisting. Had to bring someone to open it and take a look at it and then "miraculously" it worked again with nothing fixed.

From your past two instances, what pattern did you notice after the keys were not working to go back to the working state? I mean did you leave the keyboard on for hours after the problem? Turned it off then turned it on later? If you have any recollection, that could maybe help, in case this happens again - cross your fingers it never happens.

Fyi, from my small recollection, this problem is probably caused when the CS is just turned on and I play the keys immediately (note, that I do that rarely, only when I try to test my speakers for sound. I think I should never do that again, just to be safe, and only use the machine for the first time it is on for an hour first)

Constantin


--- In yamahacs80@..., Omega Code 80 wrote:

I experienced the same thing twice. No idea what is causing it.

Kent

On Jan 8, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Constantin wrote:

Hi there,

I noticed the lower octave stopped working on my CS80 yesterday. All other keys, ribbon and knobs worked great. More specifically, the lowest C key on the left of the keyboard worked but every key after D, E, F, G, A, B, C (and the respective black keys) did not trigger
any sound. The second octave (after C) and all other keys worked just fine.

The weird thing is that an hour later I turned the machine back on again, to see if it will work, and everything WAS working back to normal. This has happened 3 times so far in the last year, in 3 different instances, and I don't understand what is causing this. I never move, tamper or shake my machine.

If anyone has experienced something similar and was able to fix it, would love
to hear back. Also any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and Happy New Year!

Constantin

Hi Kent,

Thanks for your answer. I forgot to mention that the second instance this happened, it was very persisting. Had to bring someone to open it and take a look at it and then "miraculously" it worked again with nothing fixed.

From your past two instances, what pattern did you notice after the keys were not working to go back to the working state? I mean did you leave the keyboard on for hours after the problem? Turned it off then turned it on later? If you have any recollection, that could maybe help, in case this happens again - cross your fingers it never happens.

Fyi, from my small recollection, this problem is probably caused when the CS is just turned on and I play the keys immediately (note, that I do that rarely, only when I try to test my speakers for sound. I think I should never do that again, just to be safe, and only use the machine for the first time it is on for an hour first)

Constantin


--- In yamahacs80@..., Omega Code 80 wrote:

I experienced the same thing twice. No idea what is causing it.

Kent

On Jan 8, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Constantin wrote:

Hi there,

I noticed the lower octave stopped working on my CS80 yesterday. All other keys, ribbon and knobs worked great. More specifically, the lowest C key on the left of the keyboard worked but every key after D, E, F, G, A, B, C (and the respective black keys) did not trigger
any sound. The second octave (after C) and all other keys worked just fine.

The weird thing is that an hour later I turned the machine back on again, to see if it will work, and everything WAS working back to normal. This has happened 3 times so far in the last year, in 3 different instances, and I don't understand what is causing this. I never move, tamper or shake my machine.

If anyone has experienced something similar and was able to fix it, would love
to hear back. Also any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and Happy New Year!

Constantin

I experienced the same thing twice. No idea what is causing it.

Kent

On Jan 8, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Constantin wrote:

Hi there,

I noticed the lower octave stopped working on my CS80 yesterday. All other keys, ribbon and knobs worked great. More specifically, the lowest C key on the left of the keyboard worked but every key after D, E, F, G, A, B, C (and the respective black keys) did not trigger

any sound. The second octave (after C) and all other keys worked just fine.

The weird thing is that an hour later I turned the machine back on again, to see if it will work, and everything WAS working back to normal. This has happened 3 times so far in the last year, in 3 different instances, and I don't understand what is causing this. I never move, tamper or shake my machine.

If anyone has experienced something similar and was able to fix it, would love

to hear back. Also any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and Happy New Year!

Constantin

I experienced the same thing twice. No idea what is causing it.

Kent

On Jan 8, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Constantin wrote:

Hi there,

I noticed the lower octave stopped working on my CS80 yesterday. All other keys, ribbon and knobs worked great. More specifically, the lowest C key on the left of the keyboard worked but every key after D, E, F, G, A, B, C (and the respective black keys) did not trigger
any sound. The second octave (after C) and all other keys worked just fine.

The weird thing is that an hour later I turned the machine back on again, to see if it will work, and everything WAS working back to normal. This has happened 3 times so far in the last year, in 3 different instances, and I don't understand what is causing this. I never move, tamper or shake my machine.

If anyone has experienced something similar and was able to fix it, would love
to hear back. Also any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and Happy New Year!

Constantin

Hi Constantin.

Welcome to the group. Sounds like it's probably a simple problem. If you look at the giant, overall schematic ( ), you'll see in the upper left corner that the keyboard is scanned as a matrix, like a computer keyboard, from the KAS chip. The low octave (not counting the lowest C, which has its own special pin) all have the U1 signal in common from the KAS chip / board. If you look at the KAS circuit board layout ( ), on the right edge of the board, about a dozen pins from the top, is this signal, U1. According to the invaluable wiring labels, this is a red shielded wire that connects to C1 - the lowest key. You can see the wires on the circuit board at the back of the keys that holds the metal key contacts. You'll see that each circuit board hold 6 keys except C1, which is all by itself. Since that key works and the next octave doesn't, it looks like the jumped wire that connects U1 from that little C1 board over to the board next to it is broken.

If you're somewhat familiar with electronics and know how to open up the lid, this should be pretty easy to check. If not, find someone who is!

Good luck,

David


On Dec 3, 2012, at 9:12 PM, "Constantin" wrote:

Hi there,

My CS80 was working fine until today, when I noticed the lower octave stopped triggering any sound. All other keys, ribbon and knobs work great.

More specifically, the lowest C key on the left of the keyboard works but every key after D, E, F, G, A, B, C (and the respective black keys) does not trigger any sound. The second octave (after C) and all other keys work just fine.

If anyone has experienced something similar and was able to fix it, would love to hear back. Also any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time,

Constantin




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

to all of you.

It's been a while since I've been here. Made a little CS-80 track for Christmas:

This is a good point. Does anyone out there know if you can make the other numbers work. In other words is it possible to make a IG00153 '33' in a synth that has '11's'?

--- In yamahacs80@..., "Quazimodo" <noddyspuncture@> wrote:

What I meant Mike, was that should an Osc chip 'blow'... you'd more than likely not find another '11' anywhere. If you did find and Osc chip to replace it with you'd just have to use whatever came your way!

Cheers,
TOM



--- In yamahacs80@..., "Mike" <mborish_2000@> wrote:

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean.. I bought it because it sounded awesome even though I already have a CS80. After taking it apart and going through the calibration routines, I noticed that all of the Oscillators are factory coded 11.

This is the way that I bought it. I didn't modify it or swap cards. I picked it and chose it because it was the most in tune CS60 I've ever heard.

-Mike

--- In yamahacs80@..., "Quazimodo" <noddyspuncture@> wrote:

Yamaha's scaling system was all very well and good when these IC's were available in abundance. Nowadays though, I doubt anyone would have the luxury of "picking and choosing" - please do correct me if I'm wrong ... (which I do hope I am...!!)

Cheers,
TOM



--- In yamahacs80@..., "Mike" <mborish_2000@> wrote:

I've got a Yamaha CS-60 for sale in Chicago, IL. It is from my personal collection. Everything works fine and I have replaced some sliders that were a little bit dirty. It is an exceptionally stable CS60 because all of the oscillator chips are factory selected "11."

In the factory, Yamaha paired up all of the oscillator chips with similar temperature response characteristics. If the heat went up, Yamaha wanted the scaling to go up the same amount with all of the oscillators.

According to Yamaha literature, "Each IC built into the "M" circuit board is ranked and labeled every 5 Degree C according to the degree of change in the musical interval on C1 and C6 affected by the ambient temperature change from 25 to 50 degrees C."

A value of 11 is the best and 96 is the worst.