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Re: Pics
--- In yamahacs80@..., "David Rogoff" <david@t...> wrote:
For anyone interested, I took a bunchOH MY GOODNESS. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE KEYS??!?!?? oh. phew. |
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Re: Mod or keep original? - was Re: Yay - I have a CS-80 again!
Id opt for 2) and 3). This seems to be the most sensible thing to do,
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otherwise it would be like... well, imagine John Lennons psychedelic Rolls Royce, you get it and decide to paint it black all over because you dont happen to like Paisley... Honestly, Ive never read something that off-the-wall... chopping a CS80 into pieces. Even if it was completely broken Id either restore it to New shape (if money were no issue) or use it as a basis to get spare parts from. Stephen. "Human beings are a disease, the cancer of this planet, youre a plague. And we are the cure." (Agent Smith / Matrix) Visit the official [ramp] website at www.doombient.com ----- Original Message -----
From: "David Rogoff" <david@...> To: <yamahacs80@...> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 6:40 PM Subject: [yamahacs80] Mod or keep original? - was Re: Yay - I have a CS-80 again! --- In yamahacs80@..., "wavecomputer360" <wavecomputer360@g...> wrote: But.... (boring old elitist alert) dont rip thisup a synth that is rare and soughtafter seems sacriligeous to me.up with these mods but... Stephen, You bring up a big, important issue, which I've been thinking a lot about. Here's the main options: 1) minor repairs, tuning, etc (easiest) 2) restore to new (RL Music approach) 3) replace some boards with currently available parts, but same functionality (Crow's approach). 4) Keep the keyboard, ribbon, knobs, and voice cards. Gut/rebuild everything else, making it lighter, repairable, and adding a lot of new functions without changing the sound or playability. It should still sound and act like a CS80, but add more features. Each of these requires very different amounts of work. One issue that's hard to ignore is how each of these affects resale value. I've always had keyboards for a few years, play them (and tinkered), and then sold them to buy something else. Is this a big concern for others? As an engineer, option 4 would be my choice. I'd want to do it right and have it look great when done. This would be a BIG project, which is why I wrote about working with other people to design and build a few (ok, 2 or 3) of these. Not only would this ease the work, but it would give it a bit of stability if there were a few of these super CS80, with the same mod and multiple people who knew how they worked (and could fix them). Everyone please add your thoughts: I'd really like input on this. David Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: Help please with CS60
Hey David.
I think we've been through the 'touching the cards' thing... Look at Scott's (Old Crow's) site www.cs80.com for info on this. You don't want to blow those static sensitive chips...! I think Yamaha recommended the procudure in error. Cheers. TOM --- In yamahacs80@..., "David Rogoff" <david@t...> wrote: Hold down a note and then touch each of the circuit cards. Whenyou touch the card that's sounding, you should hear a little modulation |
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Re: Mod or keep original? - was Re: Yay - I have a CS-80 again!
Rory Mc Donald
--- In yamahacs80@..., "wavecomputer360"
wrote: > But.... (boring old elitist alert) don?t rip this > CS80 apart. What makes it what it is is the entity... and chopping up a > synth that is rare and soughtafter seems sacriligeous to me. > I can very well understand the techie bit and the challenge to come up with these mods but... Stephen, You bring up a big, important issue, which I've been thinking a lot about. Here's the main options: 1) minor repairs, tuning, etc (easiest) 2) restore to new (RL Music approach) 3) replace some boards with currently available parts, but same functionality (Crow's approach). 4) Keep the keyboard, ribbon, knobs, and voice cards.? Gut/rebuild everything else, making it lighter, repairable, and adding a lot of new functions without changing the sound or playability.? It should still sound and act like a CS80, but add more features. Each of these requires very different amounts of work.? One issue that's hard to ignore is how each of these affects resale value.? I've always had keyboards for a few years, play them (and tinkered), and then sold them to buy something else.? Is this a big concern for others? As an engineer, option 4 would be my choice. I'd want to do it right and have it look great when done.? This would be a BIG project, which is why I wrote about working with other people to design and build a few (ok, 2 or 3) of these.? Not only would this ease the work, but it would give it a bit of stability if there were a few of these super CS80, with the same mod and multiple people who knew how they worked (and could fix them). Everyone please add your thoughts:? I'd really like input on this. David |
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Re: Help please with CS60
--- In yamahacs80@..., "g4dfv2004" <duncan.walters@n...>
wrote: Has anyone any experience of the CS60? Duncan, most of the circuits in the CS60 are the same as in the CS80 (voice/M cards, keyboard scanner). There are links from the Links page to some of the circuit diagrams. Most of these should apply. Crow's CS80 tuning adjustments (www.cs80.com) should probably work for the CS60. Any differences anyone knows of? What do you mean and on depressing just a single key repeatedly givesDifferent pitch? volume? brightness? When you repeatedly hit a hit, it rotates through the 8 voice cards (actually, it's a little trickier than that). The easiest way to figure out which card is which is to pop the lid up. You'll see the 8 identical voice cards in the rack (good pic of CS60 here: www.nougat.org/~cchen/pictures/2002/07-07-Yamaha-CS-80/trythis.jpg). If you cleaned all the little trim-pots on the voice cards, you've certainly thrown the tuning to hell. Hold down a note and then touch each of the circuit cards. When you touch the card that's sounding, you should hear a little modulation of the sound. I don't remember where the best place to touch the card is (it's been a few years). Anyone else? David |
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Mod or keep original? - was Re: Yay - I have a CS-80 again!
--- In yamahacs80@..., "wavecomputer360"
<wavecomputer360@g...> wrote: But.... (boring old elitist alert) don?t rip thisup a synth that is rare and soughtafter seems sacriligeous to me.up with these mods but... Stephen, You bring up a big, important issue, which I've been thinking a lot about. Here's the main options: 1) minor repairs, tuning, etc (easiest) 2) restore to new (RL Music approach) 3) replace some boards with currently available parts, but same functionality (Crow's approach). 4) Keep the keyboard, ribbon, knobs, and voice cards. Gut/rebuild everything else, making it lighter, repairable, and adding a lot of new functions without changing the sound or playability. It should still sound and act like a CS80, but add more features. Each of these requires very different amounts of work. One issue that's hard to ignore is how each of these affects resale value. I've always had keyboards for a few years, play them (and tinkered), and then sold them to buy something else. Is this a big concern for others? As an engineer, option 4 would be my choice. I'd want to do it right and have it look great when done. This would be a BIG project, which is why I wrote about working with other people to design and build a few (ok, 2 or 3) of these. Not only would this ease the work, but it would give it a bit of stability if there were a few of these super CS80, with the same mod and multiple people who knew how they worked (and could fix them). Everyone please add your thoughts: I'd really like input on this. David |
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Re: Yay - I have a CS-80 again!
Hi David,
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congrats on your find! But.... (boring old elitist alert) dont rip this CS80 apart. What makes it what it is is the entity... and chopping up a synth that is rare and soughtafter seems sacriligeous to me. I can very well understand the techie bit and the challenge to come up with these mods but... Regards, Stephen. "Human beings are a disease, the cancer of this planet, youre a plague. And we are the cure." (Agent Smith / Matrix) Visit the official [ramp] website at www.doombient.com ----- Original Message -----
From: "David Rogoff" <david@...> To: <yamahacs80@...> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:58 AM Subject: [yamahacs80] Yay - I have a CS-80 again! Well, thanks to Bradley/Synth80s (and my friend Ed, for helping me |
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Yay - I have a CS-80 again!
Well, thanks to Bradley/Synth80s (and my friend Ed, for helping me
get it up the stairs), I am once again a CS-80 owner! The tolex is a little bit rough and the keyboard needs a bit of work, but the panel/knobs look and work great and the tuning is perfect. Now I have to decide how much restoration and/or modification I want to do to it. At the minimum I'll fix up the keyboard, clean up some cosmetics, and add Crow's fixes to the CMOS boards (bypass caps, etc). At the other extreme is to gut all electronics between the knobs/keyboard and the voice cards, replacing it all with a CPU/FPGA based board to have MIDI, CV/Gate I/O, programmable presets (like Prophet 5/OBX), voice assignment/unision modes, multi-timbral, auto- tune, and split into two (three with power supply?) cabinets so one person can move it. I'm an electrical engineer and have some woodworking skills (including portabilizing a couple of Hammond organs), so it's all possible if I have the time and energy. I'm going to take quite some time planning, deciding, and just playing, before I do anything drastic. I'll be running some of these ideas in detail in the mods thread, but if there are other CS80 owners interested in massive rebuilds/mods, let me know, especially if you have engineering, firmware, or cabinet-making skills (hi Crow & Kent!). It would great to come up with a common set of mods and split the development effort. Much more later, David |
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Help please with CS60
g4dfv2004
Has anyone any experience of the CS60?
I have one for restore/repair. Basically, everthing sounds garbled, and on depressing just a single key repeatedly gives a different sound each time it's pressed. I have cleaned all key contacts, all front panel slider control tracks and the preset pots on the numerous circuit boards. (Needless to say I have set them back to original settings!) Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Anyone got any driving instructions,circuit diagrams and/or technical info for this beast? Willing to pay any costs involved. Please reply soon. Duncan |
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Re: What mods would you want?
It is not that simple: the CS machines are much more than the sound of
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their chips. The only way to re-create a CS-80 is to make sure there is the correct type of weighted keyboard with poly pressure and initial touch, and all of the performance controls are arranged in the same fashion around it. Now, this can be built, but I am not a carpenter. :) I do want to make a sort of 5U rackmount CS-80, that I oddly call the CSR-80, but without a suitable keyboard/control system to connect to it, it won't be the same. I might try operating such a rack from the DX-1, provided I can get it to send poly-pressure data over MIDI. It is a player<->keyboard communion issue, and it has to be done right in order to have the same allure as the original CS-80. Crow /**/ On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 marzzz@... wrote:
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Re: What mods would you want?
marzzz@aol.com
In a message dated 8/28/04 1:11:42 AM, oldcrow@... writes: My biggest mod plans are to replace all the custom chips with equivalent Crow- Once you have replaced all the custom chips with equivalent discrete circuits, how much further do you have to go to essentially recreate a Yamaha CS-80? Imagine I have a MIDI keyboard capable of generating polyaftertouch, and perhaps have a Kurzweil Expressionmate handy. I am thinking of a box similar to the Oberheim Expander, hopefully weighing significantly less and with better tuning stability. -Marshall btw- Introduction: I owned a CS-80 for about a year after wanting one for decades. Loved the sound, didn't love the maintenance issues. And yes, I do own a Kurzweil MIDIBoard and an ExpressionMate.... |
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Mods I'd Have.
Well where do you start....
I guess the Unison for one and the power supply in a 19" rack mount, individual CV\Gate outs for each voice and after touch VCF, VCA. And the LFO mod for bank II, the heat-bar for the voice cards too would be nice. Split the CS into two wood cabs (keyboard and panel in individual cabinets). And if I had midi it would be only to sync the LFO's Glissendo/portamento to midi clock. There is no reason to play a CS80 from another keyboard because that just misses the whole point of haveing one. |
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Re: What mods would you want?
--- In yamahacs80@..., "David Rogoff" <david@t...> wrote:
Hi all.to come up with what I'd want to add and I'm wondering what otherpeople have added, or thought of adding.Did anyone say channel audio outs? I own a Marion Systems MSR-2 which has 16 audio inputs into dual board 16 voice synth's filters. I build the cables for the inputs and tested. My dream is to somehow control the Marion and the CS80 together but that sure would take alot of work - the Marion is not programmed for this (Tom Oberheim told me once that it would be tricky getting an external synth with channel outs to trigger the correct voices). Anyways, I was going to do this with some TG55's but never got around to it. I think routing the CS80 into the Marion would be ridiculously cool but I'd find it way beyond my electronics skill to put all the electronics together for some kind of triggering. But multi-channel outs of the CS80 would be cool anyway especially with my digital desk. Amibabbling, seemslikeImbabblingtoomuchcoffeegottastopdrinkinsomcuhsfcovffere. |
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Re: What mods would you want?
barbara_Streisand@hotmail.com
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Re: What mods would you want?
My biggest mod plans are to replace all the custom chips with equivalent
discrete circuits. For a voice board, it will be mostly surface-mount parts in order to keep the board the same size as the originals. Same goes for the KAS board (key assigner), though that one won't have to be surface-mount parts. Auto-tune won't happen unless a key assigner with higher resolution DACs is made such that micro-tonal tuning of the pitch CVs can be done. That, and a feedback circuit to listen to each channel's oscs, along with a "silencer" VCA placed in the audio output circuit so the horrendous squawking the machine would make while running a tune algorithm is avoided. I'm going to try and avoid the issue with new VCO circuits that don't have tracking issues. ;) Crow /**/ |
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Re: What mods would you want?
Good point, this. Whats the point of having all these beautiful mods when
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the instrument becomes unplayable due to some dead custom ICs? Making the spare parts situation sort of safe is an important factor in the enjoyment of a CS80... Stephen "Human beings are a disease, the cancer of this planet, youre a plague. And we are the cure." (Agent Smith / Matrix) Visit the official [ramp] website at www.doombient.com ----- Original Message -----
From: "The Old Crow" <oldcrow@...> To: <yamahacs80@...> Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [yamahacs80] What mods would you want?
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Re: What mods would you want?
Here comes my wish list:
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Auto Tune, most definitely. Indicator LEDs on each voice board that show you which is active (if theres no auto tune possible and you have to tweak them in tune yourselves). External stabilized and regulated power supply, built to military standards (which might solve some temperature-based problems. If not, it makes the instrument 20 kg lighter... which is a good thing if youve moved house as often as I did in the past). Less noisy built-in Chorus/Tremolo with an input level / output balance pot rather than just on/off. Ventilators (heavy duty computer fans, temperature-controlled). Lighter enclosure 8)... I wouldnt want anything that potentially puts the playability of the CS at risk (like MIDI which I deeply mistrust anyway, but MIDI and CS80 go together as well as Chocolate Sauce and Smoked Eel). No, seriously, folks, I am not one of these snobbish purists whod say all innovation is bad right from the start but I think its just hard to find anything as immediately satisfying as far as musicality is concerned as the CS-80. I wouldnt want to control it from somewhere else, and I wouldnt want to use it as a master keyboard controller, either, as most other synthesizers are not designed to respond the way a CS80 does. Using it within a setup should always bring out your musical wit and your musical skills, rather than having its track perfectly synced to your other stuff. Stephen. "Human beings are a disease, the cancer of this planet, youre a plague. And we are the cure." (Agent Smith / Matrix) Visit the official [ramp] website at www.doombient.com ----- Original Message -----
From: "David Rogoff" <david@...> To: <yamahacs80@...> Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 12:27 AM Subject: [yamahacs80] What mods would you want? Hi all. |
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Re: Finally got my prototype discrete Yamaha CS VCO working
Yes, I have that set of Yamaha engineering notes. In fact, that page
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you indicated was my primary guideline for the discrete version. I think the reset pulse is to guarantee a full waveform reset (full capacitor recharge) at the higher frequencies such that the pitch doesn't start to go flat. That page also shows why tracking of the VCOs is such a pain; the transposition setting resistor (Rft) has to be exact for each desired octave, which is why there are trimmers for each one. If the Rft value for a given octave is off even slightly, the tracking goes south. I have my prototype CS VCO running into my production CS filter. It sounds very nice. :) I'll record some audio clips this weekend. In other news, I built and tested the NE11000 VC-BPF as used in the GX-1, and it works great..except that I wired the resonance pot backward. (The original NE11000 did not have a variable resonance control; it only had a trimmer that was set and sealed for a Q of 4 or so). Crow /**/ On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, David Rogoff wrote:
I just found this site: |
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