Re: Yamaha YC-45D organ expression pedal usable with a CS-80?
Hi,
Doesn’t the FC7 / CB 83742 volume pedal work with the Yamaha CS-50/60/80? Please correct me if I am wrong (now I’m curious). I think those are not so difficult to obtain.
And FC4 for sustain?
best,
DT
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Re: Yamaha YC-45D organ expression pedal usable with a CS-80?
Now I'm relieved, at least?a little bit.
?
You might want to try and have a go at the pedal of the SY-1 -- it works as a swell pedal with the CS50 so it should work with a CS80 as well.
?
Stephen
?
?
Gesendet:?Donnerstag, 29. April 2021 um 18:08 Uhr
Von:?"Mathias Tjonn" <mathiastjoenn@...>
An:[email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [yamahaCS80fans] Yamaha YC-45D organ expression pedal usable with a CS-80?
...and thanks Stephen, I promise no YC organ will loose it's pedal! It's not mine to mess with in any case, just thought if it worked with a CS-80, I could have a tech reverse engineer it of sorts and make a replica for my synth. Sounds like it does indeed work with the 80, so with Florian's schematics and whatever else I can find here in the forum, I'll proceed with looking into having one built.
Thanks again! Mathias
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Re: Yamaha YC-45D organ expression pedal usable with a CS-80?
...and thanks Stephen, I promise no YC organ will loose it's pedal! It's not mine to mess with in any case, just thought if it worked with a CS-80, I could have a tech reverse engineer it of sorts and make a replica for my synth. Sounds like it does indeed work with the 80, so with Florian's schematics and whatever else I can find here in the forum, I'll proceed with looking into having one built.
Thanks again! Mathias
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Re: Yamaha YC-45D organ expression pedal usable with a CS-80?
Thanks Florian, I'll see if I can have a tech build or mod a pedal for me.
?
Best, Mathias
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Re: Yamaha YC-45D organ expression pedal usable with a CS-80?
Since the YC's swell pedal is hardwired to the unit, it can only be used with a CS synth when ripping it from an organ first. Which would be a bloody shame.
?
A while ago, I posted a similar question here in the forum as to whether the SY-1's swell pedal could be used with a CS50 (to which no one felt inclined to respond). I found it out the hard way -- yes, it can be used. The 50 puts out something around 15 volts at the Control Pedal jack.
?
Stephen
?
?
Gesendet:?Montag, 26. April 2021 um 22:12 Uhr
Von:?"Florian Anwander" <fanwander@...>
An:[email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [yamahaCS80fans] Yamaha YC-45D organ expression pedal usable with a CS-80?
Hi
This is the Circuit-diagram from the YC45 (I hope the embedded image is accepted by groups.io)
Florian
Am 26.04.21 um 20:25 schrieb Mathias Tjonn:
Greetings,
I hope this message finds everyone in the forum well. A friend of mine has the YC-45D organ, and I noticed that the expression pedal is very similar to the one that originally came with the CS-80. I've taken a look at the YC-45D manual, but there is very little information about the pedal itself. Does anyone here have any experience with this organ+pedal, and know if it works for the CS-80?
Sincerely yours,
Mathias
?
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Re: Yamaha YC-45D organ expression pedal usable with a CS-80?
Hi
This is the Circuit-diagram from the YC45 (I hope the embedded
image is accepted by groups.io)
Florian
Am 26.04.21 um 20:25 schrieb Mathias Tjonn:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Greetings,
I hope this message finds everyone in the forum well. A friend of
mine has the YC-45D organ, and I noticed that the expression pedal
is very similar to the one that originally came with the CS-80.
I've taken a look at the YC-45D manual, but there is very little
information about the pedal itself. Does anyone here have any
experience with this organ+pedal, and know if it works for the
CS-80?
Sincerely yours,
Mathias
|
Re: Yamaha YC-45D organ expression pedal usable with a CS-80?
Hi
This is the Circuit-diagram from the YC45 (I hope the embedded
image is accepted by groups.io)
Florian
Am 26.04.21 um 20:25 schrieb Mathias Tjonn:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Greetings,
I hope this message finds everyone in the forum well. A friend of
mine has the YC-45D organ, and I noticed that the expression pedal
is very similar to the one that originally came with the CS-80.
I've taken a look at the YC-45D manual, but there is very little
information about the pedal itself. Does anyone here have any
experience with this organ+pedal, and know if it works for the
CS-80?
Sincerely yours,
Mathias
|
Yamaha YC-45D organ expression pedal usable with a CS-80?
Greetings,
I hope this message finds everyone in the forum well. A friend of mine has the YC-45D organ, and I noticed that the expression pedal is very similar to the one that originally came with the CS-80. I've taken a look at the YC-45D manual, but there is very little information about the pedal itself. Does anyone here have any experience with this organ+pedal, and know if it works for the CS-80?
Sincerely yours,
Mathias
|
Re: Identifying correct resistor value for CS80 power transistor
Oh...In my turn I missed this message from you.So yes indeed, using alligator to tie the lead and sense lines together is a quick way to go, but your option of getting a load resistor bank is surely a safest route as alligator clips may always slip out.
Just to clarify, this is the exact method I always used (described at 4:15 in this video):?https://youtu.be/Up-KQHc4LNQ
So I would conclude both ways will prevent the transistors from driving out, one way being the easy and quick way (alligator clips), while the other being the most secure method for longest tests (load bank).
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Re: Identifying correct resistor value for CS80 power transistor
Yes you're correct, I actually meant transistors.So will include all that in my Mouser order, thanks a lot!
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Re: Identifying correct resistor value for CS80 power transistor
I usually get the cut strips, but any will do. I believe?you mean the transistors, not the resistors in your last sentence? If so, for power transistors in the CS-80 I use:
| 2SD556 |
2N3716 |
| 2SA746 |
2N3792 |
| 2SD234 |
TIP41AG |
| 2SA490 |
TIP42AG |
Great idea! So right, with your p/n references i found the molex plug on Mouser, but the socket terminals gives 3 different results (regular, ‘cut strip’, and also ‘mouser reel’).I dont really get the differences between them all but i presume i should get the regular one, right?
Also, considering extreme case when the output circle resistors would have failed in the end, is there any substitute for it i could order at same time?
thanks
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Re: Identifying correct resistor value for CS80 power transistor
Great idea! So right, with your p/n references i found the molex plug on Mouser, but the socket terminals gives 3 different results (regular, ‘cut strip’, and also ‘mouser reel’).I dont really get the differences between them all but i presume i should get the regular one, right?
Also, considering extreme case when the output circle resistors would have failed in the end, is there any substitute for it i could order at same time?
thanks
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Re: Identifying correct resistor value for CS80 power transistor
Ah. I re-read your message. What I was talking about was just ruining it without the sense line connected to the power line as some people try to do, that's when you get the circuit driving the transistor outputs to max voltage.
If you're say, alligator clipping the two together that would work ok as well. I have a dedicated load bank for all the circuits so it's never been necessary here (and I never did it that way). In that case, you're fine. I'd still buy a plug and wire it so there's a little loop for the sense lines right at the plug for safety's sake. I might even make?one up for myself,?would be good for some quick adjustments rather than pulling out the load bank. Thanks for the?idea!.
On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 12:06 PM Scott Rodriguez via <synthrodriguez= [email protected]> wrote: Since you're ordering parts anyway, just get a new Molex plug and some terminals and make up a little dedicated resistor load bank you can just plug in to the power supply. The plug is Molex p/n 50-84-1090 and the socket terminals are p/n 350536-3.
[Edited Message Follows]
Scott,
The damaged resistor is on the +15 volt line, but the foot switch issue you mention makes me think of another (ghost) short I had some while ago, which happened only when the Yamaha foot controller was connected on the back.Since then, It stayed unplugged the time to deal with that, but never really analysed the cause behind it in the end...Well, one thing at a time, for now it's the PSU first ;-)
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Re: Identifying correct resistor value for CS80 power transistor
Since you're ordering parts anyway, just get a new Molex plug and some terminals and make up a little dedicated resistor load bank you can just plug in to the power supply. The plug is Molex p/n 50-84-1090 and the socket terminals are p/n 350536-3.
[Edited Message Follows]
Scott,
The damaged resistor is on the +15 volt line, but the foot switch issue you mention makes me think of another (ghost) short I had some while ago, which happened only when the Yamaha foot controller was connected on the back.Since then, It stayed unplugged the time to deal with that, but never really analysed the cause behind it in the end...Well, one thing at a time, for now it's the PSU first ;-)
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Re: Identifying correct resistor value for CS80 power transistor
Scott,
The damaged resistor is on the +15 volt line, but the foot switch issue you mention makes me think of another (ghost) short I had some while ago, which happened only when the Yamaha foot controller was connected on the back.Since then, It stayed unplugged the time to deal with that, but never really analysed the cause behind it in the end...Well, one thing at a time, for now it's the PSU first ;-)
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Re: Identifying correct resistor value for CS80 power transistor
That makes sense indeed.
So I won't take any more risks in the future and will do your way from now on. And since these temporary resistors would tie each +15/+15S and -15/-15S lines together, the leads would still be connected to their corresponding sense lines in a safe way. (Always felt stressed when plugging crocodile jumpers inside the molex anyway, since they could easily slip away from the connector and potentially damage the PSU).
So first I will order these white cement folded resistors from Mouser, and as soon as I receive them (I think in a week or two, since I live in Europe), I will share some more feedbacks around it.
Again, thank you Scott and Joan for your expertise!
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Re: Identifying correct resistor value for CS80 power transistor
It drives the power transistor output circuit to its voltage limit,?somewhere around 27 volts if I recall correctly..I'm not sure exactly what damage it can cause, but it's certainly not something you want to do.
"As another?point in the matter,?do not?power-up?the power supply unless it has a load on it. It needs to have the circuit completed in order to work properly"
Waou this info is very useful Scott!? I made the PSU calibration many times in the past, but always pulled the Molex connector off in order to tie the sense lines together externally, so the circuit was always disconnected from the PSU doing that.
So i will follow your procedure 100%, thank you for sharing this with such precise explanations.
Besides providing possible inaccurate results on the multimeter, is there any risks for the psu when not recreating the circuit resistance that way?
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Re: Identifying correct resistor value for CS80 power transistor
"As another?point in the matter,?do not?power-up?the power supply unless it has a load on it. It needs to have the circuit completed in order to work properly"
Waou this info is very useful Scott! ?I made the PSU calibration many times in the past, but always pulled the Molex connector off in order to tie the sense lines together externally, so the circuit was always disconnected from the PSU doing that.
So i will follow your procedure 100%, thank you for sharing this with such precise explanations.
Besides providing possible inaccurate results on the multimeter, is there any risks for the psu when not recreating the circuit resistance that way?
|
Re: Identifying correct resistor value for CS80 power transistor
If the damaged ceramic resistor is on the -15 volt side, it's likely someone plugged a footswitch into the Foot Controller port on the back of the synth. Doing so will short the -15 volt side to ground. :(
On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 8:23 AM Scott Rodriguez via <synthrodriguez= [email protected]> wrote: " should I conclude the outputs transistors themselves are 100% kept safe and operating?"
I would expect so, they're pretty?bulletproof and can handle a hefty overload for a short period.
As another?point in the matter, do not power-up?the power supply unless it has a load on it. It needs to have the circuit completed in order to work properly. Also the sense lines need to be tied to their respective leads for proper regulation by the 4558's?
What you can do if you want to check the ±15 volt side voltages before installing it into the synth would be to put 1k resistors on the lines.
You can safely remove the fuses on the blue and yellow wires to disable the?+8.5 and -6.5 volt lines. Then wire the +15 and?+15S to one side of a resistor and the other side to the black analog ground. Do the same thing for the -15 and -15S lines and the single 10.6 volt line. So in the end, you'll have (3) resistors with the ends common ganged to the ground wire with one resistor going to the two brown lines, one resistor going to the two yellow lines, and one resistor going to the orange 10.6 volt line on the connector (it's the red wire coming off the circuit board, but it changes to the orange color at the connector). Then you can power it on and check voltages at each resistor.?
[Edited Message Follows]
Hello Scott,
Thank you for sharing this mouser reference, I will get these ones! So this resistor replacement choice answers to my previous question at same time, they are definitely 5W/1ohm resistors as described in the manual, and as Joan also concluded before (then K stand for 10% tolerance).
Knowing the role of these resistors is valuable indeed, and now I better understand the heating cause of these, as there must have been some short on the 15V rails in the circuit in first place.
Since they're supposed to protect Tr701 and Tr702 transistors by limiting current draw under 15 amps, should I conclude the outputs transistors themselves are 100% kept safe and operating?
thx!
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Re: Identifying correct resistor value for CS80 power transistor
" should I conclude the outputs transistors themselves are 100% kept safe and operating?"
I would expect so, they're pretty?bulletproof and can handle a hefty overload for a short period.
As another?point in the matter, do not power-up?the power supply unless it has a load on it. It needs to have the circuit completed in order to work properly. Also the sense lines need to be tied to their respective leads for proper regulation by the 4558's?
What you can do if you want to check the ±15 volt side voltages before installing it into the synth would be to put 1k resistors on the lines.
You can safely remove the fuses on the blue and yellow wires to disable the?+8.5 and -6.5 volt lines. Then wire the +15 and?+15S to one side of a resistor and the other side to the black analog ground. Do the same thing for the -15 and -15S lines and the single 10.6 volt line. So in the end, you'll have (3) resistors with the ends common ganged to the ground wire with one resistor going to the two brown lines, one resistor going to the two yellow lines, and one resistor going to the orange 10.6 volt line on the connector (it's the red wire coming off the circuit board, but it changes to the orange color at the connector). Then you can power it on and check voltages at each resistor.?
[Edited Message Follows]
Hello Scott,
Thank you for sharing this mouser reference, I will get these ones! So this resistor replacement choice answers to my previous question at same time, they are definitely 5W/1ohm resistors as described in the manual, and as Joan also concluded before (then K stand for 10% tolerance).
Knowing the role of these resistors is valuable indeed, and now I better understand the heating cause of these, as there must have been some short on the 15V rails in the circuit in first place.
Since they're supposed to protect Tr701 and Tr702 transistors by limiting current draw under 15 amps, should I conclude the outputs transistors themselves are 100% kept safe and operating?
thx!
|
Mathias Tjonn