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So, today you say,- when selling an US Xpander, don?t do under $ / EUR 5.000,- and w/o flightcase and any spare parts (when in stock) ?

What?s up w/ the japanese versions ?

b.t.w.,- I see several vintage Moog Minimoog D on offer,- but not selling since weeks in germany.

I paid 2800,- for an M12 and sold it by 5000,- around 10 years later, because I was worried about the components getting old. In any case, I was sure that prices would still continue rising although not this much. It is interesting to see what will be the peak 10 years from now. 5000,- for an Xpander today feels not too much in comparison. Quite the contrary, as PeWe pointed out!?

I think Minimoogs are played out, unless You like to collect furniture :)

Technical users - those who seek the tricks that the minimoog is used in music for - can pick up an Uli B plastic box of crap for $300. The real value of the Original Model D is it's physical presence. Your brain makes a different connection to a Minimoog with a keyboard and those big knobs and switches. A User can engage with a full Model D and form a strong connection with it. This is not the same when using a mickey mouse clone, no matter what it sounds like.

The same can be said for the Xpander vs. the M12 - Why is the M12 so expensive compared to the X? A technical user might opt for an X, with it's CV/Gates and smaller footprint, but the musician/user may gravitate towards the M12 as it is more tactile and familiar with it's keyboard and flappy paddles. Leave the new user in the room with each, and i bet they will form a stronger connection with the M12, and therefore will pay much more for it if they have the cash. It's also *TWO* Xpanders, which means twice the everything.

I bet You 5cent Uli will shortly roll out his ripoff of the Xpander, for $499 ($599 in a white Keith Haring-esque graf-covered case, with patches made by Skrillex & Harry Styles), and it will sound the same as an IRL one to anyone who has never actually used a real Xpander or M12, just like all his other clones do. This will drop the price of the M12 & Xpander, but only to realistic levels - just like what happened with Minimoogs.

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I think Minimoogs are played out, unless You like to collect furniture :)

Oh no,- I just overhauled mine and added Rudi?s (Lintronics) latest MIDI/CV interface LMC-2 which is controllable by a Windows app (possibly Mac too, I dunno).
LFO-2 incl. S&H and 2 add. VCAs included.

LMC-2 replaces the vintage Roland MPU-101 which I plan to sell.
It?s good for 4 Oberheim SEMs and such.

Technical users - those who seek the tricks that the minimoog is used in music for - can pick up an Uli B plastic box of crap for $300. The real value of the Original Model D is it's physical presence. Your brain makes a different connection to a Minimoog with a keyboard and those big knobs and switches. A User can engage with a full Model D and form a strong connection with it. This is not the same when using a mickey mouse clone, no matter what it sounds like.

I don?t find any functionality of my modded Minimoog D in a Behringer or other clone.
The Behringer?s MIDI is mediocre and you get what you pay for.
Even the Minimoog D reissue MIDI isn?t great.
In software I also use Creamware/Sonic Core Minimax in SCOPE, Cherry Audio Miniverse and NI Monarch,- and even they are welcome in a DAW environment, there?s no comparison, soundwise and according to my hardware mods.
Minimoog always was and keeps to be my prefered leadsynth.

I play 1 of the? Xpander?s voices via CV/Gate, directly out from Minimoog D, for layers,- and the other 5 voices via MIDI from my modded and stable Oberheim XK, which makes a nice vintage rig.

But I agree on,- the vintage prices they ask for Minimoogs are insane.

The same can be said for the Xpander vs. the M12 - Why is the M12 so expensive compared to the X? A technical user might opt for an X, with it's CV/Gates and smaller footprint, but the musician/user may gravitate towards the M12 as it is more tactile and familiar with it's keyboard and flappy paddles. Leave the new user in the room with each, and i bet they will form a stronger connection with the M12, and therefore will pay much more for it if they have the cash. It's also *TWO* Xpanders, which means twice the everything.

That?s why I added a Oberheim XK to the Xpander,- the keys, freely programmable paddles, arpeggiator w/ clock sync like in OB-8 and the programmable (volume-) slider were welcome.
It got internal PSU, socketed ICs and all new tact switches as also a good cleanjob,- and I?ve found a unbelievable reason for notorious crashes of the originals !
My tech and me, we were shocked,- it just only needed a piece of duct tape to get that fixed permanently.
It was worth the work ?cause I bought it from ebay for about 40 bucks,- and now there?s a fully functional and stable 3-zone masterkeyboard for the Xpander and software synths,- OB-Xd, Arturia M12, Sonic Projects OP-X Pro II and even OP-X included in V-Machine bundle,- working surprisingly well on the tiny V-Machine.

Layering Xpander w/a good 6 voice software emulation brings you close to M12 layer "bread & butter" sounds and even it?s not exactly the same.
?

I bet You 5cent Uli will shortly roll out his ripoff of the Xpander, for $499 ($599 in a white Keith Haring-esque graf-covered case, with patches made by Skrillex & Harry Styles), and it will sound the same as an IRL one to anyone who has never actually used a real Xpander or M12, just like all his other clones do. This will drop the price of the M12 & Xpander, but only to realistic levels - just like what happened with Minimoogs.

Not anytime soon !
Too many problems with/ in China, parts/chips not being available, supply chain issues,- and when China will attack Taiwan, it will come even worst.

Also the since a long time announced Behringer OBX-a isn?t released,- and I?m pretty sure, no Behringer synth product will last as long as our over decades maintained vintage dinos do.

On 09/11/2022 12:57, PeWe wrote:

Am 09.11.2022 um 12:53 schrieb Tim, EI4GNB via groups.io:

I think Minimoogs are played out, unless You like to collect furniture :)

Oh no,- I just overhauled mine and added Rudi?s (Lintronics) latest MIDI/CV interface LMC-2 which is controllable by a Windows app (possibly Mac too, I dunno).
LFO-2 incl. S&H and 2 add. VCAs included.

Oh yes, now that's the way to go.

LMC-2 replaces the vintage Roland MPU-101 which I plan to sell.

You will get a good price. MSDOS users crave real 401s.

It?s good for 4 Oberheim SEMs and such.

I never kept an original D for longer than it took to get bored of it, but i HAVE kept my Voyager OS after they finally replaced it's motherboard with a non-insane one, and i modded it up for filter Poles, External CV to filter tracking and other things that are missing when You use CV/GATE. It's still a clone, but one that I find strangely attractive and want to keep, only after it was modified. I wonder are the end-cheeks filled with lead? It weighs more than I do.

Technical users - those who seek the tricks that the minimoog is used in music for - can pick up an Uli B plastic box of crap for $300. The real value of the Original Model D is it's physical presence. Your brain makes a different connection to a Minimoog with a keyboard and those big knobs and switches. A User can engage with a full Model D and form a strong connection with it. This is not the same when using a mickey mouse clone, no matter what it sounds like.

I don?t find any functionality of my modded Minimoog D in a Behringer or other clone.
The Behringer?s MIDI is mediocre and you get what you pay for.

Peanuts == monkeys. The Uli D is cheap and cheerful, like a monkey with a hat on.

Even the Minimoog D reissue MIDI isn?t great.

But it LOOKS SO GOOD :)

In software I also use Creamware/Sonic Core Minimax in SCOPE, Cherry Audio Miniverse and NI Monarch,- and even they are welcome in a DAW environment, there?s no comparison, soundwise and according to my hardware mods.
Minimoog always was and keeps to be my prefered leadsynth.

Oh, *all* the clones and Virtuals are sub-standard, maybe OK at best - but you will never know if You have never played a real Model D. I would wager that the vast majority of clone owners are happy in their ignorance. I think of it like never having eaten fresh food, living only on frozen foods. Sure, it gets the job done, and it's cheap, but it's very far from the simple umami of the real thing.

I play 1 of the? Xpander?s voices via CV/Gate, directly out from Minimoog D, for layers,- and the other 5 voices via MIDI from my modded and stable Oberheim XK, which makes a nice vintage rig.

Lovely. Lacking CV/Gate is the only real gripe i have with the M12. Sometimes You want it and it's not there.

But I agree on,- the vintage prices they ask for Minimoogs are insane.

I would still have one in the shack again, they are inspirational. Shame they are escalating in price again, need another lotto win...

The same can be said for the Xpander vs. the M12 - Why is the M12 so expensive compared to the X? A technical user might opt for an X, with it's CV/Gates and smaller footprint, but the musician/user may gravitate towards the M12 as it is more tactile and familiar with it's keyboard and flappy paddles. Leave the new user in the room with each, and i bet they will form a stronger connection with the M12, and therefore will pay much more for it if they have the cash. It's also *TWO* Xpanders, which means twice the everything.

That?s why I added a Oberheim XK to the Xpander,- the keys, freely programmable paddles, arpeggiator w/ clock sync like in OB-8 and the programmable (volume-) slider were welcome.
It got internal PSU, socketed ICs and all new tact switches as also a good cleanjob,- and I?ve found a unbelievable reason for notorious crashes of the originals !

orly?

My tech and me, we were shocked,- it just only needed a piece of duct tape to get that fixed permanently.

Whatnow? where to do the duct tape? Interested to know..

It was worth the work ?cause I bought it from ebay for about 40 bucks,- and now there?s a fully functional and stable 3-zone masterkeyboard for the Xpander and software synths,- OB-Xd, Arturia M12, Sonic Projects OP-X Pro II and even OP-X included in V-Machine bundle,- working surprisingly well on the tiny V-Machine.

hah! epic. never thought much about the XK, guess it's in play now!

Layering Xpander w/a good 6 voice software emulation brings you close to M12 layer "bread & butter" sounds and even it?s not exactly the same.

Well You could just multitrack the X if it's "simple" use. The M12 Multis, with separate out/panning and clever patch deployment can make for some terrific walls of sound that really do leverage the 12 voices, and is not really reproducable with a 2 x 6 pass due to the way voices are rotated and stolen, but i'd trade that trick for some CV/Gate action TBH :/

Speaking of Emulation, do like this video from Music Track: This vid starts off and you are thinking "OH SHI-.. Thjs is not bad at all.." but by the end, all is forgiven, and the M12 gets a wipedown and a hug for keeping it real.

I bet You 5cent Uli will shortly roll out his ripoff of the Xpander, for $499 ($599 in a white Keith Haring-esque graf-covered case, with patches made by Skrillex & Harry Styles), and it will sound the same as an IRL one to anyone who has never actually used a real Xpander or M12, just like all his other clones do. This will drop the price of the M12 & Xpander, but only to realistic levels - just like what happened with Minimoogs.

Not anytime soon !

Lol, amen brother...

Too many problems with/ in China, parts/chips not being available, supply chain issues,- and when China will attack Taiwan, it will come even worst.

Well, if China to mess with Taiwan, it will stop ALL of Uli's production, and his IP will be available on Aliexpress for $5 inc. shipping within days. Then We can all enjoy all of those great plastic boxes for even cheaper.

Notable also that all of the non-Uli synth manufacturers are basing their designs on the 'new' chip building blocks that Uli is making in his factory. So, You may THINK You are buying a new [whatever] from the original team - but You are basically still buying from Uli in some way.? The M12 and the X are basically THAT chipset from the 80's, so it's only a matter of time before someone nails it with the correct firmware.

Also the since a long time announced Behringer OBX-a isn?t released,

That was because Uli probably did a deal to supply the NEW OBX premium edition guys with their chipset, in face of a possible legal argument related to Oberhiem IP - Why fight about passing-off and cloning with someone when You can do a deal to supply them?

Same for the 'new' Prophet 5 perhaps?

In fairness, it was Uli who had the bright idea to tool up and start making the CEM chipset again, so best of luck to him, He has made life a whole lot more interesting for this generation of synthesists.

- and I?m pretty sure, no Behringer synth product will last as long as our over decades maintained vintage dinos do.

Oh yes, that is for sure. Chinese parts are chinese parts, as anyone who buys bits on eBay or Aliexpress can testify to. They are cheaper, and sold in bulk for a reason.

Hi, im interested in your MPU-101 if you want to sell it. PM me :)

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>>>

On 09/11/2022 12:57, PeWe wrote:

That?s why I added a Oberheim XK to the Xpander,- the keys, freely programmable paddles, arpeggiator w/ clock sync like in OB-8 and the programmable (volume-) slider were welcome.
It got internal PSU, socketed ICs and all new tact switches as also a good cleanjob,- and I?ve found a unbelievable reason for notorious crashes of the originals !

orly?

My tech and me, we were shocked,- it just only needed a piece of duct tape to get that fixed permanently.

Whatnow? where to do the duct tape? Interested to know..

There?s kind of vertical support bar inside the XK,- stabilizing the upper case/lid.
It might have been never or poorly isolated when it was new.
It hit the inner/bottom side of the upper case which hosts the boards for leds, keypad and switch-buttons and when there were vibrations by playing the keys or such, it caused crashing the machine.
It?s such a stupid fault ...
I remember searching for the reason of that issue, replacing external PSU, pulling/re-seating ICs, checking ribbons and whatelse,- and nothing helped because with case open, all was fine.
Then, I recognized a bit of old glue being left over at the top of the support bar and said to my tech "... can it be ?".
He laughed and said "no",- but I forced him to put some tape over that supportbar top and close the case.
We then tried to provocate all thinkable issues crashing the toy,- but no chance,- suddently it worked flawlessly and it still does since then.

Now on the XK I regret there?s no MIDI-In and no way to backup it?s settings via sysex.
No biggie in the home studio, but I wouldn?t gig w/ it,- use my Kurz PC361 instead.

Speaking of Emulation, do like this video from Music Track: This vid starts off and you are thinking "OH SHI-.. Thjs is not bad at all.." but by the end, all is forgiven, and the M12 gets a wipedown and a hug for keeping it real.

thx,- I?ll watch later ...

Also the since a long time announced Behringer OBX-a isn?t released,

That was because Uli probably did a deal to supply the NEW OBX premium edition guys with their chipset, in face of a possible legal argument related to Oberhiem IP - Why fight about passing-off and cloning with someone when You can do a deal to supply them?

Same for the 'new' Prophet 5 perhaps?

In fairness, it was Uli who had the bright idea to tool up and start making the CEM chipset again, so best of luck to him, He has made life a whole lot more interesting for this generation of synthesists.

I have nothing against Uli,- deep in his heart he?s an idealist and enthusiast, a musician/keyboardplayer who started designing and building electronic devices as a hobbyist and it was a long time until it became a more professional biz.
His early german series of audio tools was already good and more reliable than the chinese products.
I?m using his splitter/mixer summig other line mixers, a 2-ch denoiser and a 8-ch. denoiser for the Yammi TX816.
His single ended noise reductions combined w/ companders were good always and his early exciters were good too.
I know a little bit more and not only what?s to find in the web. ?
Discussions about copyright infringements and such belong to the lawyers and not to the public.
It?s very often way more complicated than it seems to be,- last but not least because of different law in different countries and more.

- and I?m pretty sure, no Behringer synth product will last as long as our over decades maintained vintage dinos do.

Oh yes, that is for sure. Chinese parts are chinese parts, as anyone who buys bits on eBay or Aliexpress can testify to. They are cheaper, and sold in bulk for a reason.

exactly !

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I?ll make pics and come back to you later.

I sell only because I want the interface internal now.

The MPU-101 works good,- I?m 1st owner.
I owned 3 Minimoog D in the past, that?s why I bought it new after I?ve seen TOTO using it live w/ a quasi "offstage" Minimoog? behind a curtain.

?

Hi, im interested in your MPU-101 if you want to sell it. PM me :)