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Re: Chaining multiple Xpanders

 

When the buttons/knobs are changed on the front panel, all of this info is echoed over midi. But the cmds use sysex, which is slow.
If you connect the midi out of Xpander 1 to the Midi in of Xpander 2 and set the appropriate Midi enables & echo flags, you should be able to control? the second xpander form the first (but not the other way around)

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 2:22 PM, tyrosine <nocontext@...> wrote:
?

I recently got an Xpander, and although it's incredibly deep, six voices isn't much to play with.

Is there a way to pair up two Xpanders (short of hunting down a Matrix-12)? Or even more than two?

There are some references in the manual to using the MIDI ECHO function (see page 50). It seems like this would work, but I wanted to see if anyone has experience using multiple Xpanders in this way.
Re: Chaining multiple Xpanders

 

I know you say "short of hunting down a Matrix-12", but honestly if you can live without the CV jacks, the M12 is the way to go if you want extra voices. The benefit of going the M12 route rather than 2x Xpanders is: 1) Saves space 2) All 12 voices will be calibrated within the same unit for consistency 3) Less hardware to worry about maintaining...I'm talking things like the displays, encoders 4) Has its own keyboard for immediate playing while tweaking sounds 5) Draws less electricity than two Xpanders.

Currently the M12 goes for about $4000 and a nice Xpander $2000, so if you are serious about buying a 2nd Xpander maybe you should consider selling yours and getting the Matrix instead...they are not that hard to find in nice shape.

Anyhow, just my thoughts having owned both instruments in the past and deciding to stick with the M12 because of the joy of having 12 voices under one hood.

Howie

--- In xpantastic@..., "tyrosine" <nocontext@...> wrote:

I recently got an Xpander, and although it's incredibly deep, six voices isn't much to play with.

Is there a way to pair up two Xpanders (short of hunting down a Matrix-12)? Or even more than two?

There are some references in the manual to using the MIDI ECHO function (see page 50). It seems like this would work, but I wanted to see if anyone has experience using multiple Xpanders in this way.
Re: Chaining multiple Xpanders

 

tyrosine wrote:
I recently got an Xpander, and although it's incredibly deep, six voices isn't much to play with.
Is there a way to pair up two Xpanders (short of hunting down a Matrix-12)? Or even more than two?
I think a Matrix-12 only has 2 outputs, so don't get that instead of 2 Xpanders!

There are some references in the manual to using the MIDI ECHO function (see page 50). It seems like this would work, but I wanted to see if anyone has experience using multiple Xpanders in this way.
I guess just copy the tracks in your sequencer and use more than 1 USB MIDI interface. I have 4 (!) USB MIDI interfaces.

Cheers,

Jeremy.
Chaining multiple Xpanders

tyrosine
 

I recently got an Xpander, and although it's incredibly deep, six voices isn't much to play with.

Is there a way to pair up two Xpanders (short of hunting down a Matrix-12)? Or even more than two?

There are some references in the manual to using the MIDI ECHO function (see page 50). It seems like this would work, but I wanted to see if anyone has experience using multiple Xpanders in this way.
Re: M12 and Xpander ipad editing app

 

Thanks Karl.
This would be madness on an iPod, but would be great for an iPad.



On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Karl Schmeer <shire03@...> wrote:
?

Hi All,
This?is sure tempting to me.

Look to the?left to find the different synths.?



Best

Karl Schmeer
M12 and Xpander ipad editing app

 

Hi All,
This?is sure tempting to me.

Look to the?left to find the different synths.?




Best

Karl Schmeer
Re: Xpander PSU humming

stardent2000
 

cool idea I'll try it. Like I say its no big deal just that my xpander is right next to me and I can hear it through my headphones...

--- In xpantastic@..., "baumont987" <geebeex@...> wrote:

Hi,

Same issue, I put a piece of Styrofoam between the transformer and the chassis, this reduced the noise significantly.

Greg

--- In xpantastic@..., "stardent2000" <nickw@> wrote:

Hi yes I have the same issue. Not too bothersome but it seems to get louder over time...No biggy just a little annoying.
Nick

--- In xpantastic@..., "Mattias Cedergren" <mathias_cedergren@> wrote:

Hi. I've an Xpander that works good, but there is some humming noise from the PSU. A little research on the net revealed that this is quite common to the Xpanders. Is there anything I can do to remove the humming, or at least make it hum more quietly? Can I replace the power transformer? If so, does anyone know where a new one can be obtained? I've the USA version. Many thanks, Mattias.
Re: Xpander PSU humming

 

Hi,

Same issue, I put a piece of Styrofoam between the transformer and the chassis, this reduced the noise significantly.

Greg

--- In xpantastic@..., "stardent2000" <nickw@...> wrote:

Hi yes I have the same issue. Not too bothersome but it seems to get louder over time...No biggy just a little annoying.
Nick

--- In xpantastic@..., "Mattias Cedergren" <mathias_cedergren@> wrote:

Hi. I've an Xpander that works good, but there is some humming noise from the PSU. A little research on the net revealed that this is quite common to the Xpanders. Is there anything I can do to remove the humming, or at least make it hum more quietly? Can I replace the power transformer? If so, does anyone know where a new one can be obtained? I've the USA version. Many thanks, Mattias.
Re: Xpander PSU humming

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I have it since I buyed it new when it came out.
It?s not in the audio path.
So what ?

A custom built toroidal transformer helps if you want to make that investment.

Am 20.02.2011 12:22, schrieb stardent2000:

?

Hi yes I have the same issue. Not too bothersome but it seems to get louder over time...No biggy just a little annoying.
Nick

--- In xpantastic@..., "Mattias Cedergren" wrote:
>
> Hi. I've an Xpander that works good, but there is some humming noise from the PSU. A little research on the net revealed that this is quite common to the Xpanders. Is there anything I can do to remove the humming, or at least make it hum more quietly? Can I replace the power transformer? If so, does anyone know where a new one can be obtained? I've the USA version. Many thanks, Mattias.
>
Re: Xpander PSU humming

stardent2000
 

Hi yes I have the same issue. Not too bothersome but it seems to get louder over time...No biggy just a little annoying.
Nick

--- In xpantastic@..., "Mattias Cedergren" <mathias_cedergren@...> wrote:

Hi. I've an Xpander that works good, but there is some humming noise from the PSU. A little research on the net revealed that this is quite common to the Xpanders. Is there anything I can do to remove the humming, or at least make it hum more quietly? Can I replace the power transformer? If so, does anyone know where a new one can be obtained? I've the USA version. Many thanks, Mattias.
Xpander PSU humming

 

Hi. I've an Xpander that works good, but there is some humming noise from the PSU. A little research on the net revealed that this is quite common to the Xpanders. Is there anything I can do to remove the humming, or at least make it hum more quietly? Can I replace the power transformer? If so, does anyone know where a new one can be obtained? I've the USA version. Many thanks, Mattias.
Re: Re : Matrix 12 not booting up

John Pallister
 

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Tony Cappellini?<cappy2112@...>?wrote:

>>There are 2 processors in the Xpandr/Matrix-12.

There are 3 in the Matrix 12, because it has 2 voice boards + the main board.

>>If one of these fails and you need a replacement,- your only chance is to buy a Matrix-1000 used.

I don't remember if the 6809 in the Xpander/Matrix is the 6809 or 6809E (External clock).
These are commercially available and dirt cheap


Another good way to find components is :?

The Jameco part is an MC68B09EP; the "B" refers to its clock speed (2MHz, where the "A" was 1.5MHz) and the "P" means it's in a plastic package (as Tony mentioned). The original CPU is an MC68B09P. Question is, does the "E" make a difference?

Comparing the pinouts of the two chips from their datasheets, the following pins are labelled differently:

Pin 'EP ?'P ? ? ?
33 ?BUSY DMA/BREQ?(where the underline means an inverted signal)
34 ?E ? ?E ? ? ? ?An input on the 'EP, an output on the 'P.
35 ?Q ? ?Q ? ? ? ?An input on the 'EP, an output on the 'P.
36 ?AVMA MRDY
38 ?LIC ?EXTAL
39 ?TSC ?XTAL

Pin ? ? ? ? I/O 'EP description
33 BUSY ? ? ?O ?memory access in progress - used for multiprocessing
34 E ? ? ? ? I ?Clock input, TTL level (Q leads E)
35 Q ? ? ? ? I ?Clock input, NMOS level
36 AVMA ? ? ?O ?used for resource sharing in multiprocessor systems
38 LIC ? ? ? O ?Last Instruction Cycle "indicates opcode fetch"
39 TSC ? ? ? I ?Three-State Control "controls internal bus buffers"

Pin ? ? ? ? I/O 'P description
33 DMA/BREQ??I ?"allows DMA operation or memory refresh"
34 E ? ? ? ? O ?Clock output (Q leads E)
35 Q ? ? ? ? O ?Clock output
36 MRDY ? ???I ?"input extends data access times"
38 EXTAL ? ? I ?External crystal or clock input
39 XTAL ? ? ?I ?External crystal (or ground)

So as you can see, the "E" version is a more advanced generation of the original 6809, with pins that were inputs now re-purposed as outputs to allow multiple CPUs to work together, and the clock signals E and Q are now external inputs rather than being generated by the CPU. This means that the 6809E is not going to be backwards-compatible with the 6809 found the Matrix-12 (and the Xpander).

So you'll need to keep looking for the original CPU. Try the Octopart link above, or UTSource (who I've used successfully in the past):?

OK, looking at the Xpander schematic (since I have an Xpander and not a Matrix-12, although I imagine the latter is very similar) the MRDY and /BREQ inputs are tied high and XTAL is grounded anyway, with the CPU driven from an external clock circuit. So to retrofit a 68B09E, you'd need to cut the traces to pins 33, 36 and 38, then add another clock generator circuit (there's a schematic for one in the 6809E datasheet) and connect it to pins 34 and 35. Then you could power it up and find out whether the firmware still works on the new CPU; it might be best to compare the internal CPU architectures (flag registers etc.) against the code and look for "unused" flag bits, NOP opcodes etc. that now do stuff...

Hitachi makes a pin & instruction compatible replacement for the 6809, which runs up to 4Mhz(I believe).

Imagine what new features the Xpander could have if it would use a faster processor. Sure, a lot of code would need to be re-written,?but there are people who like to do that.

To quote : "6809 cores are available in??and can be programmed into FPGA and used as an embedded processor with speed ratings up to 40?MHz." So that would be one way to do it, the advantage being that you could have a "legacy mode" that runs the original Xpander firmware on a model of the original CPU. Alternatively, you'd port the firmware to a new CPU and add whatever extra features you wanted. If I ever succeed in cloning myself I'll definitely get one of my replicas to have a go at this.

Disclaimer: I'm not an electrical engineer but I do have a Masters degree in Electrical Engineering, FWIW.

Cheers,

John :^P
Re: Re : Matrix 12 not booting up

 

--- In xpantastic@..., Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...> wrote:
The voice chips, the dac. All that are nearly impossible to find
and are expensive.
I have both in stock at the moment the way. :) Doug, synthparts.com
Matrix 12 not booting-PROGRESS!!! "Processor 1 malfunction"

r_j_d_2.phila
 

hello all, thanks so much for your help. so i disconnected the rear harness of the TOP voice board that connects to the main processor board, and the machine boots. it reads:

"voice 1 processor malfunction"

and then enters the main screen. all buttons/pots work, and i am able to select programs. however, i get no sound.

if i enter the tuning page, i get this error"

"voice 0 processor malfunction"

so i've narrowed it down to a problem in the top-most voice board, i believe. now what do i do? any ideas on how to deduce the problem on that board? thanks, rj
Re: Re : Matrix 12 not booting up

 

>>Thanks so much Tony! so the M12 processors number is HD68B09P.

I don't remember what the B indicates, but the trailing P indicates Plastic packaging ( I think)


>>that jameco link, its a drop-in replacement for all 3 processors?

I'm not 100% sure about that. Better refer to a hardware person who? is more up to date.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd hate for someone to put the wrong part in and have problems

Digikey also sells electronic parts- like CPUs. Check their prices & specs.

>>LAST question: are there any other IC's that you would suggest ordering now, that might be high probability of failing? THANKS!!!! (didnt realize how often i was playing the M12 til it went >>down...)

The voice chips, the dac. All that are nearly impossible to find and are expensive.
?
Re: Re : Matrix 12 not booting up

r_j_d_2.phila
 

Thanks so much Tony! so the M12 processors number is HD68B09P.

assume thats a 6809, NOT 6809E?

that jameco link, its a drop-in replacement for all 3 processors?
LAST question: are there any other IC's that you would suggest ordering now, that might be high probability of failing? THANKS!!!! (didnt realize how often i was playing the M12 til it went down...)

--- In xpantastic@..., Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...> wrote:


There are 2 processors in the Xpandr/Matrix-12.
There are 3 in the Matrix 12, because it has 2 voice boards + the main
board.


If one of these fails and you need a replacement,- your only chance is to
buy a Matrix-1000 used.
I don't remember if the 6809 in the Xpander/Matrix is the 6809 or 6809E
(External clock).
These are commercially available and dirt cheap
*

Hitachi makes a pin & instruction compatible replacement for the 6809, which
runs up to 4Mhz(I believe).

Imagine what new features the Xpander could have if it would use a faster
processor. Sure, a lot of code would need to be re-written,
but there are people who like to do that.

*
Re: Re : Matrix 12 not booting up

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Well, that?s news !!!

thx for info


Am 16.02.2011 19:33, schrieb Tony Cappellini:
?

>>There are 2 processors in the Xpandr/Matrix-12.

There are 3 in the Matrix 12, because it has 2 voice boards + the main board.
?

>>If one of these fails and you need a replacement,- your only chance is to buy a Matrix-1000 used.

I don't remember if the 6809 in the Xpander/Matrix is the 6809 or 6809E (External clock).
These are commercially available and dirt cheap


Hitachi makes a pin & instruction compatible replacement for the 6809, which runs up to 4Mhz(I believe).

Imagine what new features the Xpander could have if it would use a faster processor. Sure, a lot of code would need to be re-written,
but there are people who like to do that.
Re: Re : Matrix 12 not booting up

 

>>There are 2 processors in the Xpandr/Matrix-12.

There are 3 in the Matrix 12, because it has 2 voice boards + the main board.
?

>>If one of these fails and you need a replacement,- your only chance is to buy a Matrix-1000 used.

I don't remember if the 6809 in the Xpander/Matrix is the 6809 or 6809E (External clock).
These are commercially available and dirt cheap


Hitachi makes a pin & instruction compatible replacement for the 6809, which runs up to 4Mhz(I believe).

Imagine what new features the Xpander could have if it would use a faster processor. Sure, a lot of code would need to be re-written,
but there are people who like to do that.
Re: Re : Matrix 12 not booting up

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý


There are 2 processors in the Xpandr/Matrix-12.

If one of these fails and you need a replacement,- your only chance is to buy a Matrix-1000 used.
Is the same processor.


Am 16.02.2011 18:37, schrieb r_j_d_2.phila:

?

the voltage SHOULD be +55vdc(+/-4v, according to SM); it reads 60.2.

also, last night, i removed and reseated the 4053 and two tl081's on the voice board(related to SM calibration, so i thought i'd try it), and just ONCE i got it to boot w/ "clear" held down. when it went into the reset process, i got this error:

"voice processor malfunction".

any time turning on after that, i was back at square one. ill try to find the memory/processor ic's on the main processor board, and reseat them. thanks guys!
Re: Re : Matrix 12 not booting up

r_j_d_2.phila
 

the voltage SHOULD be +55vdc(+/-4v, according to SM); it reads 60.2.

also, last night, i removed and reseated the 4053 and two tl081's on the voice board(related to SM calibration, so i thought i'd try it), and just ONCE i got it to boot w/ "clear" held down. when it went into the reset process, i got this error:

"voice processor malfunction".

any time turning on after that, i was back at square one. ill try to find the memory/processor ic's on the main processor board, and reseat them. thanks guys!

--- In xpantastic@..., "envia94" <akva@...> wrote:

I have not measured the voltage in my unit, but if it should be 60.2V, then 55V is absolutely too low to be correct at least. If the specs would say 60V instead of 60.2V, then 55V might be about alright, in my opinion.

--- In xpantastic@..., "r_j_d_2.phila" <r_j_d_2.phila@> wrote:

thanks for that, ill try it. ill check the 6809.

does 60.2vdc sound close enough for the 55vdc? all the other voltages read properly.
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