Hi all,

I have never seen one, but there was a rack synth from England called
the Cheeta MS6. This was close to the M1K, but was also multitam.
Does anyone know if this synth can detune its voices?

As far as I can tell:
If you absolutly have to have voice detuning on the M1K. You could
hardware mod this with a microcontroller. The micro could be wired in
between the CEM voice chips and the master 6809 cpu in the M1K.
The firmware of the Mod micro would insert a slight delay into each
frequency to detune the voices. Controlling it would be a different
story.
All I can think of, is to add a potentiometer on the back (or front)
that is wired into the mod. This knob would detune all the voices at
once. I don't see any way to make this programmable either.

It is posible, but a lot of work for only one non-programmable
function.

Karl

Karl

Tom Dunn (an ex-Oberheim employee) that i bought my 6R from had one
when i came to buy the 6R and told me they
were prototypes and never went into production)

Hey All,

Has anyone ever seen the Remote Control unit for the Matrix 6R?
There is a 5 Pin DIN input on the front panel that says REMOTE.
This is not midi I/O. The Manual says it's for a rack mounted remote
control programmer, that will make programming much easier.

Karl

开云体育

Thx !

Yes w/ the Matrix-1000 in Channel Mode G1 ( manual page 21 top to bottom).
Each voice responds to incoming midi on a different channel then, voice 1-6 to channel 1-6 for notes and continuous controllers PB, CC#7 and pressure/AT independently.
Voice 1 is on the basic channel which can be all 16 available midi channels. The next channels go n+1 then if the basic channel isn?t channel 1.

It?s perfect to use w/ a midi-guitar controller b.t.w.

With the PMM, there is no limitation to a type of? controller.

Because a PMM can remap controllers not only to midi channels, your pitchbend controller could be adressed/remapped to any other midi CC too or any other controller could do PB.

For keyboards which aren?t able to send midi data on 6 channels simultaneusly, you?d need a midi processor functionality anyway to do independent pitch bends or pitch bend offsets for each voice on separate channels.

The PMM? is a unbelievable monster and I can?t understand why it?s a discontinued product meanwhile

Jeremy Smith schrieb:

PeWe wrote:

keyboard modes in M1K:

0= reassign
1= rotate
2= unison
3= reassign w/ rob

units select (multiple device select mode)

it seems this mode replaced the split and layer functions of Matrix-6,
maybe just marketing because of the low price of the M1K,- buy 2 !

I never tried to split or layer the M1K,- just looked into the manual and cannot find anything about this.
Hope I didn?t overread anything.

But if this should be possible,- you?re right !

matrix schrieb:

Hi,,

This sounds good.

I'll tell my friend who has the M1000 - I bought an Xpander after I sold
the M1000 to him.

All the best,

Jeremy.

开云体育

I never was a friend of the Access programmer, not for the Matrix and not for the Microwave.
In case of the Matrix, it only covers the "important" parameters, but not the mod matriss and the global parameters,- so you need a software editor anyway in addition.

External hardware programmers for only one synth model are unfortunally worth nothing in real road life,- if they are 19" units they enlarge your racks and if the racks are not near by you, offstage instead, they are unusable.
My racks were never near by me ?cause the production wanted to see a clean stage ever.

Several non 19" units are more uncomfortable. They add ( long) midi runs, crash down the floor or get lost or stolen.
And almost any use walwart PSUs,- source of error No.1

For studio usage software is the best anyway



matrix schrieb:

If you have a midi processor machine like a Miditemp PMM88E, it?s much
better:

In this case, setting the different synths to unison, same midi
channel, detune ?em global and set ?em to (different if desired)
patches manually is obsolete.

Just leave the machines on different midi channels, route the master
keyboard ( midi in of the processor) to the midi outs w/ the M1Ks
connected and send ?em controller offset values ( same controller- one
negative/ one positive) on the different midi channels. The controller
of your choice ( mod wheel CC# or CC#4 p.ex.) must be set up in the
mod matriss to control DCO2 detune by any amount you like.
Each M1K can be set to unison via midi too and this as also the
controller offsets and the midi prg-ch. no. can be stored into a patch
of the midi processor.
This example is for 2 M1Ks and can be extended by using more M2Ks on
more midi channels and w/ slightly different controller offsets on
each of the midi channels.

With one push of a button, you configurate some M1Ks to a detuned
unison setup w/ the right patch(es) selected.
If you move the controller which controls the DCO2 detune during
performance, the amount of detune changes in realtime.
If you recall the patch-no. on the midi processor again, you come back
to the detune amount set by the offset values.

Imagine, all this works also w/ any other synth combinations, is done
in a few minutes and you never have to change your global keymode and
tuning settings of your synths.
In addition, you can use it live (w/ the processor) and it can be
re-created in a sequencer (which is the processor then) and played
back and edited by using the sequencers automation or recording a
midi-controller track.

Excellent!

Also, you could detune those voices with the pitchbend control, and have
different pitchbends each channel?

Anyway, either solution sounds good.

Thanks,

Jeremy.

开云体育

keyboard modes in M1K:

0= reassign
1= rotate
2= unison
3= reassign w/ rob

units select (multiple device select mode)

it seems this mode replaced the split and layer functions of Matrix-6, maybe just marketing because of the low price of the M1K,- buy 2 !

I never tried to split or layer the M1K,- just looked into the manual and cannot find anything about this.
Hope I didn?t overread anything.

But if this should be possible,- you?re right !

matrix schrieb:

开云体育

Hi Tony...

No.
There?s much more not working as expected w/ the M1K depending on what you want to do, but you?ll find such issues in almost any other midi keyboards and tone generators too, regardless their age.
It seems, not too much musicians recognize(d) and go/went deep into the power of midi because it?s a complex system and the same is valid for the manufacturers of midified instruments, hardware or software.
I myself have the impression, midi is 2nd row in the heads of users and developers.
It?s no secret, w/ the 1st upcoming midi processing machines like the Yamaha MEP-4, it was a nitemare to understand this system for users because they had to learn HEX and the midi specs, too much for musicians who only wanted to play.
So, the interest in midi was always limited and focussed on the rudimentary functions, note on/off, velocity, channel after touch, CC#4, PB and mod-wheel, program changes, bank changes later.
If these things work, it covers the demands of 90% of the users of midi hardware synthesizers.

B.t.w., I think, I don?t know all my machines very well because I didn?t everything possible with every machine.
But what I?ve done once, I know,- just learning by doing and like almost any musician, I hate reading manuals :-)))

I remember, I buyed a TX816 in 1985 for a tour and I was confrontated w/ a machine which offered 3 push buttons per tonegenerator with acces to nly a very few parameters.
I had only a Commodore SX and a DX bankmanager available and had to collect and organize patches but editing to do w/ a DX7 keyboard transmitting parameters over midi. All was new to me and there was a timepressure of a rehearsal of 10 days w/ a setlist of 30 songs to learn and to program. My Mini, the OB-8 and the Prophet 5 became a no-brainer and this torture drove me nuts,- but I learned a lot about midi.

M1K see here:


>>>
Nobody seems to be able to get NRPN work on Matrix-1000.
And for a good reason: NRPN is not properly implemented. Looks like somebody started coding it and then had to quit in a hurry...
<<<

A early example of the distributor wanted to release the machine before it was finished and because of the users limited expectations (see above), only a few people became aware of the bugs and the machine became a mega seller,- he, he, he


Tony Cappellini schrieb:

On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:08 PM, PeWe <ha-pewe@...> wrote:

Yep,- "Units">group mode.

But also the extravagant workaround wouldn?t work unfortunately.
In group mode and even w/ all synths set to unison (which is a keyboard mode
only), the 1st note being hit plays the very 1st M1K which is the group

PeWe you seem to know the M1k very well.
Were you ever able to make the NRPN's work?
I followed the manual but never could get them to work.
I don't know if ti was my stupidity, a manual error, or buggy firmware.

I know other people have reported similar problems with the NRPN's

开云体育

Yep,- "Units">group mode.

But also the extravagant workaround wouldn?t work unfortunately.
In group mode and even w/ all synths set to unison (which is a keyboard mode only), the 1st note being hit plays the very 1st M1K which is the group master and configures all the following synths.
Every new arriving midi-note plays the next following synth, regardless it?s in polyphonic, monophonic or unison mode, this is "alternating rotate".
Detuning patches in each of the synths would simply result in any synth being slightly out of tune at a time w/ a note or chord hit.
They don?t sound in unison all together.
Maybe I?m wrong and please correct me then,- but I had 3 M1K and got exactly this never to work.

2nd disadvantage:
Assume, you?ve made a setup of several M1Ks in group mode to play multitimbral mono-, polyphonic or in unison, and logically different patches recalled in each synth. Works unless you do program changes via midi.
Group master M1K receives the midi program change no. and being the configuration master, it sets all the follow up synths to the same patch.
You?re never be able to recall a multitimbral patch combo w/ a midi prg. change command.

The only way to play some M1Ks in unison detune normally is,- set each M1K to unison, detune each synth global w/ fine tune (or use separately detuned and stored patches, which IMO is a waste of memory locations), put ?em on the same midi channel and using midi-echo at the midi output of each M1K.

If you have a midi processor machine like a Miditemp PMM88E, it?s much better:
In this case, setting the different synths to unison, same midi channel, detune ?em global and set ?em to (different if desired) patches manually is obsolete.

Just leave the machines on different midi channels, route the master keyboard ( midi in of the processor) to the midi outs w/ the M1Ks connected and send ?em controller offset values ( same controller- one negative/ one positive) on the different midi channels. The controller of your choice ( mod wheel CC# or CC#4 p.ex.) must be set up in the mod matriss to control DCO2 detune by any amount you like.
Each M1K can be set to unison via midi too and this as also the controller offsets and the midi prg-ch. no. can be stored into a patch of the midi processor.
This example is for 2 M1Ks and can be extended by using more M2Ks on more midi channels and w/ slightly different controller offsets on each of the midi channels.

With one push of a button, you configurate some M1Ks to a detuned unison setup w/ the right patch(es) selected.
If you move the controller which controls the DCO2 detune during performance, the amount of detune changes in realtime.
If you recall the patch-no. on the midi processor again, you come back to the detune amount set by the offset values.

Imagine, all this works also w/ any other synth combinations, is done in a few minutes and you never have to change your global keymode and tuning settings of your synths.
In addition, you can use it live (w/ the processor) and it can be re-created in a sequencer (which is the processor then) and played back and edited by using the sequencers automation or recording a midi-controller track.


Tony Cappellini schrieb:

Does the Matrix 1000 have a multi patch facility to allow detuned unison?

Thanks for any info,

No, but the Matrix 1000 has a mode that lets you chain 6 M1ks together
to get a 36 note synth.
The patches in each of those synths could be detuned, but that's an
extravagant work-around

The Matrix 6 doesnt have this feature.

Nope

WT

Hi,

Vaguely on topic...

I used to have Matrix 1000 before I sold it to a friend. What annoyed
me was I couldn't detune all 6 voices and have a decent Unison. This is partly why I bought the Xpander after selling the M1000. The Xpander lets you edit 6 voices, detune them all, and then build them into a Multi.

Does the Matrix 1000 have a multi patch facility to allow detuned unison?

Thanks for any info,

Jeremy.

开云体育

These days, it makes no big difference if you?re on a Mac or a PC if the OS isn?t buggy and the PC machine is well configurated.
A Mac, you can use out of the box, you don?t have to tweak too much, but you have to pay for it instead.

I also have a old Mac OS9.1 here in action, running a librarian.

Most of the existing software samplers run crossplatform, Mac and PC ...

Tiger OS actually causes a lot of 3rd party software to malfunction,- see the NI forum regarding their native instruments in combination w/ Tiger on Mac and Logic Studio8 p.ex.

IMO, the best sampler actually is NI Kontakt 3, the script features are the saver for the future
- well see what the upcoming EMU X ( 3 ??? ) brings (AFAIK it was for PC only up to now) ...
Yellow Tools Independence seems to be also interesting,- actually I have the Independece free to check it out a bit.
I don?t know what happens to Halion, - I?m on version 2 anyway and far behind the evolution ...

But the only one which really samples in standalone is EMU X, all the others use the DAW audio recording functions for the sampling.
Also EMU X has instrument cloning functions, but not as complex as Samplerobot is.

But be aware, all these have bugs and issues also w/ various functions and sampleformat import.
So, sample converter proggis are a must in addition.

Karl schrieb:

开云体育

Exactly ! I don?t do it and I don?t help to pirate.

Karl schrieb:

Hi PeWe,
Thanks for the excellent tips and sampling advice. I am saving this
post for future reference. I do not have a lot of musical type
PC software yet. I am thinking about a MAC because it's the only new
computer that I an get an M12 librarian on. We'll see.

Karl

--- In xpantastic@..., PeWe <ha-pewe@...> wrote:

Hi Karl !

Yes, if you sample your gear,- see the instrument you sample

as "the

oscillator- the sound source" and the sampler as the instrument you

use

later.
A high quality sampler like Kontakt 3 p.ex., has a lot of

modulators

like envelopes, lfos, filters, step sequencer, VCA as also FX

including

amp models and so on.
So, best is to sample all the patches you use the same way since

decades

( there are for sure some leads and pads as also basses) as the are

and

w/ multisampling techniques. Decide for a compromize of count,

lenght of

samples and memory usage.
With a hi end sampler ( I have Halion and Kontakt ) which is

running on

a computer, you don?t have to care on memory at all.
Listen in which zone/range of a keyboard the selected patch you

want to

sample sounds best and how you used it yourself on the original
instrument. Sample that range only but w/ as much velocity steps as
possible and possibly all the keys of that range separately.
This is what Samplerobot automatically does and it?s doing more !!!
Now you have your patch sampled as it is p.ex. ...

Next,- edit exactly this patch. Remove all the filter modulations

and

eventually almost everything comparable what your sampler can do w/

the

resulting samples later,- but keep everything whats related to the
oscillators like fixed frequency and/or PWM modulation amounts,

detune

of osc 1+2, FM/lag settings p.ex. or ring modulations if it is

important

for the basic sound. Now sample the resulting sound at full

velocity,

full open filter but no resonance (eventually several times w/

different

filter modes) at max level., now you get samples the way you can

use the

modifiers of your sampler to a full potential later.

If your sampler does portamento, don?t sample it. If it does PWM to

raw

wave samples, don?t sample PWM.
Instead multisample the oscillator section w/ open filter but w/

only 1

Osc. switched on,- do this the 2nd time with the other Osc.

switched on

and the 1st off, both w/ separate Pulse Widths settings but no
modulation. Do this w/ the OSCs not detuned against each other.

Better

do a layer of both of these multisamples in your sampler later and
detune th layers against each other in the sampler.

Controllers and Midi settings of the synth to sample you can

ignore,-

Samplerobot allows you to tell the program what the sampler shall

do

later to your samples w/ midi controllers, vibrato included.

It?s a bit of a learning process and time consuming, but you can

get

very intersting results which sound not like the original for sure

but

sometimes also better and you can use many sounds of your beloved
vintage gear in modern DAWs without having the dinos connected all

the

time, audio and midi wise, and without dealing w/ probs of midi and
external gear on your DAW.

Also it saves the live of your old machines because they aren?t

always

running.

The biggest advantage of modern DAW usage isn?t virtual

instruments, -

it?s advanced sampling, automation and total recall. Recording

audio to

disk is nothing else than sampling.

Karl schrieb:

--- In xpantastic@...
<mailto:xpantastic%40yahoogroups.com>, PeWe <ha-pewe@> wrote:

I know I could multisample this but a lot of my
patches were ambiant shifting kinds of things and use too much
memory. You probobly know this is also a problem with LFO rates

also.

By the time you switch everything off. You are just sampling a

pure

wavform.
So I scratched this Idea.