That does not sound right, the battery draining that fast. My Xpander
has had a plain CR2032 backup battery (installed in a hacky way) for
at least 7 years now. That suggests you really don't need some mega
beefy battery there.

The battery power line ("+5M") is only used for a handful of things
according to the schematic. You can try gradually replacing parts
involved with it. I think I would start with D4 and C14.


Op za 13 mei 2023 om 12:15 schreef <technogeist@...>:

Hello Everyone,

I wonder if anybody could help me?!
I recently fitted a battery holder for a CR123 3v lithium battery for the memory back up. In the space of a couple of months one battery has already gone flat and another seems to be losing around 0.1V per 24 hours. My question is, is this because the Duracell CR123 battery isn't somehow as stealthy as the Panasonic original? or is there some problem in the backup circuit, i.e a capacitor acting as a reservoir to slow the flow of voltage? or something completely different?

Any help would be appreciated!

Cheers

Paul

Another one appeared:

Looks clean, 6 pictures, but no Extra outputs fitted. 14.500euro starting price.

"Very nice OBERHEIM MATRIX 12 in very nice cosmetic conditions and perfect working. A real monster vintage polysynth! Included in the sale its proper professional Travel Case, in excellent conditions."

(2023, March) Another M12 goes up for Auction:

[quote]
USA MODEL - fresh from service - new PSU - newly calibrated - new excellent Fatar keybed with aftertouch - original Oberheim Keybed included seperately - comes in Flightcase with manuals - ships on palette -
[/quote]

17,000 Euro starting price

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I?ll make pics and come back to you later.

I sell only because I want the interface internal now.

The MPU-101 works good,- I?m 1st owner.
I owned 3 Minimoog D in the past, that?s why I bought it new after I?ve seen TOTO using it live w/ a quasi "offstage" Minimoog? behind a curtain.

?

Hi, im interested in your MPU-101 if you want to sell it. PM me :)

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>>>

On 09/11/2022 12:57, PeWe wrote:

That?s why I added a Oberheim XK to the Xpander,- the keys, freely programmable paddles, arpeggiator w/ clock sync like in OB-8 and the programmable (volume-) slider were welcome.
It got internal PSU, socketed ICs and all new tact switches as also a good cleanjob,- and I?ve found a unbelievable reason for notorious crashes of the originals !

orly?

My tech and me, we were shocked,- it just only needed a piece of duct tape to get that fixed permanently.

Whatnow? where to do the duct tape? Interested to know..

There?s kind of vertical support bar inside the XK,- stabilizing the upper case/lid.
It might have been never or poorly isolated when it was new.
It hit the inner/bottom side of the upper case which hosts the boards for leds, keypad and switch-buttons and when there were vibrations by playing the keys or such, it caused crashing the machine.
It?s such a stupid fault ...
I remember searching for the reason of that issue, replacing external PSU, pulling/re-seating ICs, checking ribbons and whatelse,- and nothing helped because with case open, all was fine.
Then, I recognized a bit of old glue being left over at the top of the support bar and said to my tech "... can it be ?".
He laughed and said "no",- but I forced him to put some tape over that supportbar top and close the case.
We then tried to provocate all thinkable issues crashing the toy,- but no chance,- suddently it worked flawlessly and it still does since then.

Now on the XK I regret there?s no MIDI-In and no way to backup it?s settings via sysex.
No biggie in the home studio, but I wouldn?t gig w/ it,- use my Kurz PC361 instead.

Speaking of Emulation, do like this video from Music Track: This vid starts off and you are thinking "OH SHI-.. Thjs is not bad at all.." but by the end, all is forgiven, and the M12 gets a wipedown and a hug for keeping it real.

thx,- I?ll watch later ...

Also the since a long time announced Behringer OBX-a isn?t released,

That was because Uli probably did a deal to supply the NEW OBX premium edition guys with their chipset, in face of a possible legal argument related to Oberhiem IP - Why fight about passing-off and cloning with someone when You can do a deal to supply them?

Same for the 'new' Prophet 5 perhaps?

In fairness, it was Uli who had the bright idea to tool up and start making the CEM chipset again, so best of luck to him, He has made life a whole lot more interesting for this generation of synthesists.

I have nothing against Uli,- deep in his heart he?s an idealist and enthusiast, a musician/keyboardplayer who started designing and building electronic devices as a hobbyist and it was a long time until it became a more professional biz.
His early german series of audio tools was already good and more reliable than the chinese products.
I?m using his splitter/mixer summig other line mixers, a 2-ch denoiser and a 8-ch. denoiser for the Yammi TX816.
His single ended noise reductions combined w/ companders were good always and his early exciters were good too.
I know a little bit more and not only what?s to find in the web. ?
Discussions about copyright infringements and such belong to the lawyers and not to the public.
It?s very often way more complicated than it seems to be,- last but not least because of different law in different countries and more.

- and I?m pretty sure, no Behringer synth product will last as long as our over decades maintained vintage dinos do.

Oh yes, that is for sure. Chinese parts are chinese parts, as anyone who buys bits on eBay or Aliexpress can testify to. They are cheaper, and sold in bulk for a reason.

exactly !

Hi, im interested in your MPU-101 if you want to sell it. PM me :)

On 09/11/2022 12:57, PeWe wrote:

Am 09.11.2022 um 12:53 schrieb Tim, EI4GNB via groups.io:

I think Minimoogs are played out, unless You like to collect furniture :)

Oh no,- I just overhauled mine and added Rudi?s (Lintronics) latest MIDI/CV interface LMC-2 which is controllable by a Windows app (possibly Mac too, I dunno).
LFO-2 incl. S&H and 2 add. VCAs included.

Oh yes, now that's the way to go.

LMC-2 replaces the vintage Roland MPU-101 which I plan to sell.

You will get a good price. MSDOS users crave real 401s.

It?s good for 4 Oberheim SEMs and such.

I never kept an original D for longer than it took to get bored of it, but i HAVE kept my Voyager OS after they finally replaced it's motherboard with a non-insane one, and i modded it up for filter Poles, External CV to filter tracking and other things that are missing when You use CV/GATE. It's still a clone, but one that I find strangely attractive and want to keep, only after it was modified. I wonder are the end-cheeks filled with lead? It weighs more than I do.

Technical users - those who seek the tricks that the minimoog is used in music for - can pick up an Uli B plastic box of crap for $300. The real value of the Original Model D is it's physical presence. Your brain makes a different connection to a Minimoog with a keyboard and those big knobs and switches. A User can engage with a full Model D and form a strong connection with it. This is not the same when using a mickey mouse clone, no matter what it sounds like.

I don?t find any functionality of my modded Minimoog D in a Behringer or other clone.
The Behringer?s MIDI is mediocre and you get what you pay for.

Peanuts == monkeys. The Uli D is cheap and cheerful, like a monkey with a hat on.

Even the Minimoog D reissue MIDI isn?t great.

But it LOOKS SO GOOD :)

In software I also use Creamware/Sonic Core Minimax in SCOPE, Cherry Audio Miniverse and NI Monarch,- and even they are welcome in a DAW environment, there?s no comparison, soundwise and according to my hardware mods.
Minimoog always was and keeps to be my prefered leadsynth.

Oh, *all* the clones and Virtuals are sub-standard, maybe OK at best - but you will never know if You have never played a real Model D. I would wager that the vast majority of clone owners are happy in their ignorance. I think of it like never having eaten fresh food, living only on frozen foods. Sure, it gets the job done, and it's cheap, but it's very far from the simple umami of the real thing.

I play 1 of the? Xpander?s voices via CV/Gate, directly out from Minimoog D, for layers,- and the other 5 voices via MIDI from my modded and stable Oberheim XK, which makes a nice vintage rig.

Lovely. Lacking CV/Gate is the only real gripe i have with the M12. Sometimes You want it and it's not there.

But I agree on,- the vintage prices they ask for Minimoogs are insane.

I would still have one in the shack again, they are inspirational. Shame they are escalating in price again, need another lotto win...

The same can be said for the Xpander vs. the M12 - Why is the M12 so expensive compared to the X? A technical user might opt for an X, with it's CV/Gates and smaller footprint, but the musician/user may gravitate towards the M12 as it is more tactile and familiar with it's keyboard and flappy paddles. Leave the new user in the room with each, and i bet they will form a stronger connection with the M12, and therefore will pay much more for it if they have the cash. It's also *TWO* Xpanders, which means twice the everything.

That?s why I added a Oberheim XK to the Xpander,- the keys, freely programmable paddles, arpeggiator w/ clock sync like in OB-8 and the programmable (volume-) slider were welcome.
It got internal PSU, socketed ICs and all new tact switches as also a good cleanjob,- and I?ve found a unbelievable reason for notorious crashes of the originals !

orly?

My tech and me, we were shocked,- it just only needed a piece of duct tape to get that fixed permanently.

Whatnow? where to do the duct tape? Interested to know..

It was worth the work ?cause I bought it from ebay for about 40 bucks,- and now there?s a fully functional and stable 3-zone masterkeyboard for the Xpander and software synths,- OB-Xd, Arturia M12, Sonic Projects OP-X Pro II and even OP-X included in V-Machine bundle,- working surprisingly well on the tiny V-Machine.

hah! epic. never thought much about the XK, guess it's in play now!

Layering Xpander w/a good 6 voice software emulation brings you close to M12 layer "bread & butter" sounds and even it?s not exactly the same.

Well You could just multitrack the X if it's "simple" use. The M12 Multis, with separate out/panning and clever patch deployment can make for some terrific walls of sound that really do leverage the 12 voices, and is not really reproducable with a 2 x 6 pass due to the way voices are rotated and stolen, but i'd trade that trick for some CV/Gate action TBH :/

Speaking of Emulation, do like this video from Music Track: This vid starts off and you are thinking "OH SHI-.. Thjs is not bad at all.." but by the end, all is forgiven, and the M12 gets a wipedown and a hug for keeping it real.

I bet You 5cent Uli will shortly roll out his ripoff of the Xpander, for $499 ($599 in a white Keith Haring-esque graf-covered case, with patches made by Skrillex & Harry Styles), and it will sound the same as an IRL one to anyone who has never actually used a real Xpander or M12, just like all his other clones do. This will drop the price of the M12 & Xpander, but only to realistic levels - just like what happened with Minimoogs.

Not anytime soon !

Lol, amen brother...

Too many problems with/ in China, parts/chips not being available, supply chain issues,- and when China will attack Taiwan, it will come even worst.

Well, if China to mess with Taiwan, it will stop ALL of Uli's production, and his IP will be available on Aliexpress for $5 inc. shipping within days. Then We can all enjoy all of those great plastic boxes for even cheaper.

Notable also that all of the non-Uli synth manufacturers are basing their designs on the 'new' chip building blocks that Uli is making in his factory. So, You may THINK You are buying a new [whatever] from the original team - but You are basically still buying from Uli in some way.? The M12 and the X are basically THAT chipset from the 80's, so it's only a matter of time before someone nails it with the correct firmware.

Also the since a long time announced Behringer OBX-a isn?t released,

That was because Uli probably did a deal to supply the NEW OBX premium edition guys with their chipset, in face of a possible legal argument related to Oberhiem IP - Why fight about passing-off and cloning with someone when You can do a deal to supply them?

Same for the 'new' Prophet 5 perhaps?

In fairness, it was Uli who had the bright idea to tool up and start making the CEM chipset again, so best of luck to him, He has made life a whole lot more interesting for this generation of synthesists.

- and I?m pretty sure, no Behringer synth product will last as long as our over decades maintained vintage dinos do.

Oh yes, that is for sure. Chinese parts are chinese parts, as anyone who buys bits on eBay or Aliexpress can testify to. They are cheaper, and sold in bulk for a reason.

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>>>

I think Minimoogs are played out, unless You like to collect furniture :)

Oh no,- I just overhauled mine and added Rudi?s (Lintronics) latest MIDI/CV interface LMC-2 which is controllable by a Windows app (possibly Mac too, I dunno).
LFO-2 incl. S&H and 2 add. VCAs included.

LMC-2 replaces the vintage Roland MPU-101 which I plan to sell.
It?s good for 4 Oberheim SEMs and such.

Technical users - those who seek the tricks that the minimoog is used in music for - can pick up an Uli B plastic box of crap for $300. The real value of the Original Model D is it's physical presence. Your brain makes a different connection to a Minimoog with a keyboard and those big knobs and switches. A User can engage with a full Model D and form a strong connection with it. This is not the same when using a mickey mouse clone, no matter what it sounds like.

I don?t find any functionality of my modded Minimoog D in a Behringer or other clone.
The Behringer?s MIDI is mediocre and you get what you pay for.
Even the Minimoog D reissue MIDI isn?t great.
In software I also use Creamware/Sonic Core Minimax in SCOPE, Cherry Audio Miniverse and NI Monarch,- and even they are welcome in a DAW environment, there?s no comparison, soundwise and according to my hardware mods.
Minimoog always was and keeps to be my prefered leadsynth.

I play 1 of the? Xpander?s voices via CV/Gate, directly out from Minimoog D, for layers,- and the other 5 voices via MIDI from my modded and stable Oberheim XK, which makes a nice vintage rig.

But I agree on,- the vintage prices they ask for Minimoogs are insane.

The same can be said for the Xpander vs. the M12 - Why is the M12 so expensive compared to the X? A technical user might opt for an X, with it's CV/Gates and smaller footprint, but the musician/user may gravitate towards the M12 as it is more tactile and familiar with it's keyboard and flappy paddles. Leave the new user in the room with each, and i bet they will form a stronger connection with the M12, and therefore will pay much more for it if they have the cash. It's also *TWO* Xpanders, which means twice the everything.

That?s why I added a Oberheim XK to the Xpander,- the keys, freely programmable paddles, arpeggiator w/ clock sync like in OB-8 and the programmable (volume-) slider were welcome.
It got internal PSU, socketed ICs and all new tact switches as also a good cleanjob,- and I?ve found a unbelievable reason for notorious crashes of the originals !
My tech and me, we were shocked,- it just only needed a piece of duct tape to get that fixed permanently.
It was worth the work ?cause I bought it from ebay for about 40 bucks,- and now there?s a fully functional and stable 3-zone masterkeyboard for the Xpander and software synths,- OB-Xd, Arturia M12, Sonic Projects OP-X Pro II and even OP-X included in V-Machine bundle,- working surprisingly well on the tiny V-Machine.

Layering Xpander w/a good 6 voice software emulation brings you close to M12 layer "bread & butter" sounds and even it?s not exactly the same.
?

I bet You 5cent Uli will shortly roll out his ripoff of the Xpander, for $499 ($599 in a white Keith Haring-esque graf-covered case, with patches made by Skrillex & Harry Styles), and it will sound the same as an IRL one to anyone who has never actually used a real Xpander or M12, just like all his other clones do. This will drop the price of the M12 & Xpander, but only to realistic levels - just like what happened with Minimoogs.

Not anytime soon !
Too many problems with/ in China, parts/chips not being available, supply chain issues,- and when China will attack Taiwan, it will come even worst.

Also the since a long time announced Behringer OBX-a isn?t released,- and I?m pretty sure, no Behringer synth product will last as long as our over decades maintained vintage dinos do.

I think Minimoogs are played out, unless You like to collect furniture :)

Technical users - those who seek the tricks that the minimoog is used in music for - can pick up an Uli B plastic box of crap for $300. The real value of the Original Model D is it's physical presence. Your brain makes a different connection to a Minimoog with a keyboard and those big knobs and switches. A User can engage with a full Model D and form a strong connection with it. This is not the same when using a mickey mouse clone, no matter what it sounds like.

The same can be said for the Xpander vs. the M12 - Why is the M12 so expensive compared to the X? A technical user might opt for an X, with it's CV/Gates and smaller footprint, but the musician/user may gravitate towards the M12 as it is more tactile and familiar with it's keyboard and flappy paddles. Leave the new user in the room with each, and i bet they will form a stronger connection with the M12, and therefore will pay much more for it if they have the cash. It's also *TWO* Xpanders, which means twice the everything.

I bet You 5cent Uli will shortly roll out his ripoff of the Xpander, for $499 ($599 in a white Keith Haring-esque graf-covered case, with patches made by Skrillex & Harry Styles), and it will sound the same as an IRL one to anyone who has never actually used a real Xpander or M12, just like all his other clones do. This will drop the price of the M12 & Xpander, but only to realistic levels - just like what happened with Minimoogs.

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So, today you say,- when selling an US Xpander, don?t do under $ / EUR 5.000,- and w/o flightcase and any spare parts (when in stock) ?

What?s up w/ the japanese versions ?

b.t.w.,- I see several vintage Moog Minimoog D on offer,- but not selling since weeks in germany.

I paid 2800,- for an M12 and sold it by 5000,- around 10 years later, because I was worried about the components getting old. In any case, I was sure that prices would still continue rising although not this much. It is interesting to see what will be the peak 10 years from now. 5000,- for an Xpander today feels not too much in comparison. Quite the contrary, as PeWe pointed out!?

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I agree !

Why should a Matrix-12 go for about a sixfold price of the Xpander on sale?

But you never know ...
I?ve seen a Roland Jupiter-8 go for about the same price (27K+) and a few days ago, a restored and midified Rhodes mkV sold for EUR 14.000,- in germany.

There are some guy w/ too much money out there,- possibly collectors investing bitcoins.
Some sellers w/ hi prices accept bitcoins.

I?d say, the real world price for a used and in the USA assembled Xpander in good working condition,- all original and incl. a flightcase is between 4 and 5K EUR / USD.

I don?t sell mine,- just repaired the memory protect switch.

Wow! I doubt that the seller is able to sell the matrix 12 for this price…

Am 09.11.2022 um 06:52 schrieb envia94 <akva@...>:

?You may want to review or add more items in the Photos and Files folders on the left menu. Or just continue discussing below.

/g/xpantastic/photos
/g/xpantastic/files

Added a list of Oby items in the latest Vemia (spheremusic.com) auction to the pictures linked above.

As well as the 2 reasonably priced M12 in this time, there is a solid gold DX Mk.2, and a titanium M1000 (signed by Jesus), also priced to sell.

If You browse the auction, there are some other BUY NOW items, like a broken Fairlight III for 13,000euro, and a Yamaha DX1 for 85,001euro - almost double the price of the CS80 listed for 43,000euro. I think We should all pitch in and buy the Fairlight and DX1, then We can play at being the Pet Shop Boys on Insta.

These bull$h!t prices are actually a new feature at Vemia. For Years this twice-yearly auction has been a place to buy reasonably priced and super interesting gear. It seems the REVERB virus has infected it this time 'round. Amusing, Yes. Factual basis, Nul.

The following photos have been uploaded to the Xpantastic! Price Upgrade album of the [email protected] group.

• Vemia_20221109_Ober.png

By: Tim, EI4GNB <ei4gnb@...>

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Wow! I doubt that the seller is able to sell the matrix 12 for this price…

You may want to review or add more items in the Photos and Files folders on the left menu:

/g/xpantastic/photos
/g/xpantastic/files

Or just continue discussing the Xpantastic! Price Upgrade here.

Ref.?/g/xpantastic/album?id=281469

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I?d try that 1st anyway and before soldering.

Re-seating does the trick for me and it's less invasive.

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That?s why I got a pack of 100 pc of these long time ago,- which I never needed up to now.
I only repair when something fails.
That?s why my Xpander lives for so long in that condition since 1987 !
When I go and power it up,- it works ... even the original displays do.

In my last posts I forgot to mention I replaced all the tact switches in addition to the PSU overhaul.
I?m the one finding these (Marquardt) tact switch replacements long time ago.
Tact switches and encoders wear out and fail first of all and the most important part in an analog synth is the PSU.
3372 can fail because being overdriven by audio input signal.
When 3374 (OSC) fails,- that?s a different story.

But when you?re a collector and want the Xpander to be like new,- well ... take it apart completely and recap.
But also have in mind you can damage a lot with soldering work too.

A most common improvement you could do is to replace all the electrolytic condensators, because they tend to get bad before the other components.

?