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my X6100 test
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I did some voltage supply voltage vs current draw and power output of my X6100 I just received yesterday.
External Voltage Source vs current draw and power output (PO set to 10W) V(sup)??? X6100 mtr??? Current??? Pwr Mtr 9.0??????? 60%??? ???????? 2.81A??? ??? 5.4W 10.0V??? 75%??? ???????? 2.98A??? ??? 6.0W 11.0V??? 95%??? ???????? 3.16A??? ??? 7.5W 11.5V??? 100%??? ?????? 3.24A??? ??? 8.5W 12.0V??? 100%??? ?????? 3.28A??? ??? 9W 12.5V??? 100%??? ?????? 3.24A??? ??? 10W 13.0V??? 100%??? ?????? 3.21A??? ??? 10W 13.8V??? 100%??? ?????? 3.20A??? ??? 10W The percentage (%) is the reading of the X6100 power meter.? 100% would correspond to 10W. The power output was measured on a Diawa watt meter in 15W scale.? I dont trust these to be more than 10% accurate, but still good indication. One can see the power output drops off at around 12V.? So for full 10W output one would need a ext supply of 12.5V. Also one does not save much DC power at lower voltages. 73, ron, n9ee |
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Thank you very much or your interesting measurements, Ron.
Motivated by your information, I did a fast measurment with my X6100 (received last month, latest update installed afterwards myself). I found that the output power with external power supply drops down only below 10 volts in my case. Above the value of 10 volts of external power supply, everything is very sufficient: ?@12,0 V; 11,5 V; 11,0 V: 10m: 11,5 Watts; 15m: 11,5 Watts; 20m: 12,0 Watts; 40m: 11,5 Watts; 80m: 10,5 Watts ?@10,5 V: 10m: 11,0 Watts; 15m: 11,5 Watts; 20m: 12,0 Watts; 40m: 11,5 Watts; 80m: 10,5 Watts ?@10,0 V: 10m: 9,5 Watts; 15m: 11,0 Watts; 20m: 11,5 Watts; 40m: 10,0 Watts; 80m: 9,5 Watts; [160m: 4,5 Watts; 6m: 5,5 Watts] So especially from 10m to 80m band everthing is very good even with 10 volts of external power supply. Tested 30m band fastly, too: same behavior. Measurement conditions: Voltage was only measured with the value on the display of the X6100. Power was measured with Maas RX-20 (cross needle) into dummy load Diamond DL50A. External Power Supply has been my TalentCell Lithium Ion battery (3 Ah @ 11,1 V) for short portable activations. 73 de Alex, DL5AZZ |
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Alex, Thanks for the info on the output power of your X6100.? I will add your comments to my test doc. I? would like to do more testing.? I am now going thru the charge and discharge of the X6100's int battery.? Seems it will last about 2 hours with about 25 minutes in QSOs.? I prefer to use ext battery, but would like to know about the int battery.? Seems takes a few hours to charge with blinking LED, but if let charge for an additional hour or so the voltage goes up to around 8.2V as displayed on the rig's display. I did find the rigs voltage read out to be close, about 0.2V below an external meter when powered from ext supply. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE/R Hernando Co ARES EC BSEE Micro Computer Concepts Spring Hill, Florida 146.64 repeater, 1100 ft HAAT 352-835-5610 also n9ee55@...
On Thursday, May 5, 2022, 09:24:08 AM EDT, DL5AZZ, Alex <dl5azz@...> wrote:
Thank you very much or your interesting measurements, Ron. Motivated by your information, I did a fast measurment with my X6100 (received last month, latest update installed afterwards myself). I found that the output power with external power supply drops down only below 10 volts in my case. Above the value of 10 volts of external power supply, everything is very sufficient: ?@12,0 V; 11,5 V; 11,0 V: 10m: 11,5 Watts; 15m: 11,5 Watts; 20m: 12,0 Watts; 40m: 11,5 Watts; 80m: 10,5 Watts ?@10,5 V: 10m: 11,0 Watts; 15m: 11,5 Watts; 20m: 12,0 Watts; 40m: 11,5 Watts; 80m: 10,5 Watts ?@10,0 V: 10m: 9,5 Watts; 15m: 11,0 Watts; 20m: 11,5 Watts; 40m: 10,0 Watts; 80m: 9,5 Watts; [160m: 4,5 Watts; 6m: 5,5 Watts] So especially from 10m to 80m band everthing is very good even with 10 volts of external power supply. Tested 30m band fastly, too: same behavior. Measurement conditions: Voltage was only measured with the value on the display of the X6100. Power was measured with Maas RX-20 (cross needle) into dummy load Diamond DL50A. External Power Supply has been my TalentCell Lithium Ion battery (3 Ah @ 11,1 V) for short portable activations. 73 de Alex, DL5AZZ |
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Today I did measure the output power versus input voltage of my X6100, made July, 2022, using the manufacturers firmware V 1.1.6 in CW mode.
Setup: Voltcraft VLP1405pro Lab power supply 0V-40V/5A, filtered with a Corcom 10VT3 EMC filter on the output (attenuation >50dB common mode, >60dB differential mode) Drake WH7 Wattmeter plus Radiosystems RS144-2 dummy load (from a GSM base station). Combination has a return loss better than 40dB over most of the range, including cables and adapters (verified with miniVNApro) I also noted the ALC value during CW transmit. First, I set the supply voltage to 9,6V: Band?? Pout??? ALC 160m? 10W??? 36 80m??? 7,2W?? 100 60m??? 10,7W? 90 40m??? 10,7W? 34 30m???? 9,7W?? 100 20m???? 6,5W?? 100 17m???? 9,5W?? 100 15m???? 9,5W?? 44 12m???? 6,5W?? 100 10m???? 4,7W?? 100 6m?????? 5,2W?? 100 It is obvious, that the PA lacks gain in some bands. The next step was to increase the supply voltage until the ALC dropped below 100, indicating just enough gain for maximum output or until maximal output power was reached: 80m??? 10W???? 11,3V 20m??? 10W???? 11,8V 12m??? 9W ? ??? 11,4V 10m??? 9W?????? 13,4V 6m????? 8W?????? 12,8V My personal conclusion is to use the radio with 9,6V supply to keep it cool and maximise reliability and lifetime. After all, the PA was designed to operate off 6,6V to 8,4V, the voltage range of its internal battery pack. My external packs are two 7-cell NiMH R/C packs with 4,2Ah each. Assuming a receive current of 600mA and 3,2A during transmit and a duty cycle of 70% receive and 30% transmit, I expect 3 hours operating time off each pack (0,3x3,2A+0,7x0,6A=1,38A average current draw worst case). Together with the internal battery, that gives about 8,5h operating time. Keep in mind, that especially on 10 and 6m, power does not help if the band is not open, and when open, even a few Watts are sufficient. I hope these measurements are useful. 73, Rainer DG1SMD |
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Thanks a lot for power check. it's about like mine. i also use external lithium batteries 3,7 x 3 + 3 parallel about 11v Il giorno sab 25 mar 2023 alle ore 16:39 <dg1smd@...> ha scritto: Today I did measure the output power versus input voltage of my X6100, made July, 2022, using the manufacturers firmware V 1.1.6 in CW mode. |
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Christopher
Re 6m & 'a few watts'? I can remember, *slaps own wrists* before there was a license exempt 49Mhz low power allocation in the UK, as a kid using a pair of 49Mhz Maxon NBFM HH's (the grey ones that were about two PP3's in size) with brother - those ran about 50mw and they were good for at least 2 miles LOS or about a mile Near LOS or about a half mile non LOS.? Much better than the crappy but still illegal 27 MHz single channel kids walkie talkies on a similar power level.? The fact the 1.5m? Tele (as a BL QW, where BL was in the radio itself) was about on the money as ideal clearly helped.? In fact I can thank the actual fact they existed and I used them for getting me out of s situation that could have turned into a fatality clearly increases my sentiment for them. A few watts or less, on an electrically short BL-QW Tele isn't a great DX combo, set mounted, but it's better than similar on 2m or 70cm, likewise it's a good combo on 4M.? Clearly it's not as WB on 4/2/70 (band specific examples) although on 4, it's entirely adequate resonant given the narrow 4M seg we have in the UK.? As my HH on 49Mhz experience proved by proportional comparison. As an old hand I know often says, a few watts on a restricted 6/4m setup goes a long way in flexibility - a fact mostly lost on those brought up on 2m as their primary VHF band. On Sat, 25 Mar 2023, 15:39 , <dg1smd@...> wrote: Today I did measure the output power versus input voltage of my X6100, made July, 2022, using the manufacturers firmware V 1.1.6 in CW mode. |
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I use an old laptop power supply which strangely had an output voltage of 12V (5A) instead of the usual 18V. The performance of the radio is excellent on all bands (having 9W of peak power instead of 10W is completely irrelevant in terms of dB) and the heat is significantly lower than that generated when using 13.8V power supplies... not low but still tolerable.
The internal temperature problem is not trivial, because above 40-50°C lithium batteries begin to degrade. This makes me think that the batteries in 6100s running the normal 13.8V are bound to have a fairly short life. Even better would be if the firmware included a charge maintenance system around 80%, which is not too difficult since the hardware allows you to control the external power from software, so it would be enough to connect the power when the charge drops a a little below 80% and disengage it when it goes a little above (say a 78-82% range), leaving it permanently on when the radio is transmitting. Perhaps we should suggest Xiegu add this simple trick to his firmware. IZ0EYJ |
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On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 12:05 PM, federico.giampietro wrote:
Even better would be if the firmware included a charge maintenance system around 80%, which is not too difficult since the hardware allows you to control the external power from software, so it would be enough to connect the power when the charge drops a a little below 80% and disengage it when it goes a little above (say a 78-82% range), leaving it permanently on when the radio is transmitting.Most likely this will not work. Only the charger can be controlled by software. But not a power source. When an external power supply is connected, your device will always be powered from it. And even if you turn off the charger, the battery will not be discharged. |
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Hello Oleg, but it would be precisely necessary to check the recharge in order to keep the battery around 80%, then the operation of the radio is maintained by the external source does not matter.
Something similar to your firmware's "Shadow" method but not based on the power-on state but the charging state. Since the software can check the charge level and manage the charger, I don't think Xiegu would have any problems implementing the feature. |
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On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 12:51 PM, federico.giampietro wrote:
Since the software can check the charge level and manage the charger, I don't think Xiegu would have any problems implementing the feature.I say, if the battery charge is already more than 80%, you will not be able to discharge it to 80% until you manually turn off the external power. Your idea will only work if the charge is less than 80%. Then yes - you can wait until it is charged up to 80% and turn off the charger. |
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Hi Oleg,
I think I understand what Federico wants. Here is my take on his wish: - your firmware can read and display the state of charge of the internal battery pack. - your firmware can turn on and off the charger Now what he wants is the following, described in Pseudocode: IF STATE_OF_CHARGE <80% THEN SET charger = ON ELSE SET charger=OFF As an alternative, you can replace SOC in percent with the voltage, here 8V as switching point. So there would be a fourth state in your soft button for Charger: ON OFF SHADOW LONGLIFE I am aware that this only works as long as your firmware is in control - otherwise the bq24715 charge controller will do its job to charge the pack to 100%. This could be mitigated by turning the charger off when shutting down the GUI, just the opposite of SHADOW. BTW the 80% SOC limit worked very well with my Samsung N150 Netbook. The original battery lasted 10 years. Setting the maximum SOC to 80% was supported in BIOS and there was an app to change that on the fly. The netbook is still running, now with a new battery, a replacement SSD and another GB of RAM. I will try uSDR as a companion SDR screen for G90 and X6100, since the built-in soundcard has stereo mic inputs and very good audio performance. Another plus is that there is a service manual including schematics for this computer on the internet... 73, Rainer DG1SMD |
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On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 01:34 PM, <dg1smd@...> wrote:
Now what he wants is the following, described in Pseudocode:Yes, that's exactly how I understood it. But I think it's all too much. This is what a special wet charge control circuit does. And in it (should be!) the charging currents and voltages for this type of battery are set. |
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Hi Oleg,
80% SOC as a limit for Lithium based rechargeable batteries is not new - in fact, it is recommended for applications that need long battery life or a high number of charge cycles. This source (maintained by a manufacturer of battery test systems) recommends 3.92V/cell for Li-based rechargeable battery systems as optimum: Reducing the maximum battery voltage by 100mV per cell doubles the available charge/discharge cycles. 73, Rainer DG1SMD |
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The internal search circuit currently does not include any "safe level" control, the battery is always brought to 100%.
Since, despite being portable, these radios are often used in fixed systems, and consequently connected to the power source for long periods, this leads to rapid degradation of the accumulator. It would not be difficult to give the user a method to choose between full recharge and 80% maintenance, which is generally foreseen by good-level laptops precisely to protect the life of the accumulators when the PC is left permanently connected to the power source.? Ultimately, as Rainer rightly said, it is a question of performing a check of the charge level every few seconds and based on that to establish whether or not to enable battery charging ... a dozen lines of code. It's strange that Xiegu didn't include such a useful but simple to implement feature. |
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Interesting table Rainer, in fact my Lenovo tablet keeps the charge at 60%, and from this table I understand the reason.
So I keep it at 40-60% (let's say 50%) and not 80% like for laptops. After all, the charging speed of the 6100 is so high that if necessary, going from 50% to 100% would only take a few tens of minutes. |
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On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 02:07 PM, federico.giampietro wrote:
It's strange that Xiegu didn't include such a useful but simple to implement feature.Nothing strange. Prior to version 1.1.6, they counted the charge level by the voltage level. And only in version 1.1.6 began to take into account the charging and discharging current. Those. started using a full-fledged wattmeter. |
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Christopher
There's nothing strange there, 12V Vs 18V output on a laptop PSU if it's designed for a laptop of a very recent gen (last 4-5 years) or an older netbook, as they tend to use 12V input. It's older laptops, especially 'desktop replacement ' items that often ran desktop PC CPUs (not low consumption) instead of low consumption 'mobile' edition CPU's.? Those often used an 18v supply. But even an 18V example can be fixed to 12V one if one happens to be spare or an 18V replacement is found. But, and especially more modern examples, whilst SM PSU's are inherently EM noisy, the modern ones do seem to be more compliant with the EMC requirements Vs the older stuff. In fact, on my fairly modern Legion5 laptop, it generates more EM garbage than the PSU itself (original OEM item).? In fact I had the PSU on a synthetic load test setup and sat the 6100 next to it and there's little notable lift in band noise or birdie type transients notable - not 100% absent but very low order where there are any occurances.? But I will assume that's not universal as I do seem to be lucky with equipment in getting stuff with better than average EM compliance. But even if a laptop PSU (OEM or aftermarket replacement) is a bit noiser than you'd want, you could mount it in a metal box, add a vent or two and a box mounted intake and exhaust fan pair running a fairly low RPM and that'll lose a bit of any stray EM.? But again, a modern OEM or aftermarket replacement of a recent-ish design for recent/current laptops should be usable without re-casing and maybe at best a couple of ferrite cores in the DC lead as a precaution won't do any harm. But regardless, they are way more fit for original purpose and repurposed use for radio than those horrible PD type USB-C adaptive variable output items.? And as I probably said, there's little saving over a laptop item cost in buying a substandard unfit for radio use purpose USB-C item. There are HH's, VHF and UHF, which have USB-C charging capability and can be powered for RX on a PD type charger whilst charging, but there's often way more noise than say repurposing a laptop item to (with appropriate mods where needed output wise) with a dummy USB fitting to provide a psuedo USB-C charge source.? It's very noticeable on FM only items, less so on DMR/DPMR items unless the radio is configured to auto switch between FM & DV in the occurances of FM mod sigs on the preset frequency. On Sun, 26 Mar 2023, 10:05 federico.giampietro, <federico.giampietro@...> wrote: I use an old laptop power supply which strangely had an output voltage of 12V (5A) instead of the usual 18V. The performance of the radio is excellent on all bands (having 9W of peak power instead of 10W is completely irrelevant in terms of dB) and the heat is significantly lower than that generated when using 13.8V power supplies... not low but still tolerable. |
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Yes Christopher, but the focus of my post was not so much on 12V laptop power supplies as on the importance of choosing supply voltages significantly lower than the 13.8V usually found in amateur radio stations in order to preserve internal batteries from degradation attributable to excesses of temperature. This is a critical topic that I see very little discussed. However this power supply is also very clean, evidently Digital Equipment Corporation paid great attention to interference even thirty years ago.
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