|
I'm going to make a bizarre proposal.? Let's redo the Xcat using the Pi Pico as a stepping stone to the X9000. ?We already know everything we need to know about the X and electrically it has the same issues as the X9000 (5 volt logic levels). The RP2040-Zero form factor (https://www.waveshare.com/rp2040-zero.htm) as castellated module would?be ideal for a DIY project.? The module?would just solder on to a custom board we'd design.? With Kicad and the cheap and fast low quantity?PCB houses suchj as JLCPCB we have now a small run of PCBs is cheaper than a burger.
I'll commit to doing the code.? I've already ordered 3 modules.
Is there anyone in the group that'll commit to doing the PCB??
Once it's working on the X the same code base can be updated to work with the X9000 once it has given up its mysteries.
73's Skip WB6YMH
|
I have never used Kicad, I'm an Eagle Cad guy or I would take it on. My other issues are medical issues the wife is having so my time is really limited. I think it's a great idea though. I have never used micropython, only regular python but I'm interested in taking a look at it. What IDE do you write it in? Do you use VS code or something? That's what I used for the Uniden head.
On Sun, Aug 7, 2022 at 8:25 PM Skip Hansen < skip@...> wrote: I'm going to make a bizarre proposal.? Let's redo the Xcat using the Pi Pico as a stepping stone to the X9000.? We already know everything we need to know about the X and electrically it has the same issues as the X9000 (5 volt logic levels).
The RP2040-Zero form factor () as castellated module would?be ideal for a DIY project.? The module?would just solder on to a custom board we'd design.? With Kicad and the cheap and fast low quantity?PCB houses suchj as JLCPCB we have now a small run of PCBs is cheaper than a burger.
I'll commit to doing the code.? I've already ordered 3 modules.
Is there anyone in the group that'll commit to doing the PCB??
Once it's working on the X the same code base can be updated to work with the X9000 once it has given up its mysteries.
73's Skip WB6YMH
|
I'm going to make a bizarre proposal. Let's redo the Xcat using the > Pi Pico as a stepping stone to the X9000. Not bizarre at all. Seems like a reasonable approach. > Is there anyone in the group that'll commit to doing the PCB? I'm really not qualified, but I've put together a few questionable board layouts with kicad. If no one competent can be convinced, I'll give it a try. De
|
Hi Casey,
I understand, believe me know about family health issues.
Kicad was just a suggestion, not a requirement.
I've done two PCBs in my life. One with Bishop Graphic's red and blue
tape and one with DOS based Orcad...
The red and blue tape PCB was for a z80 based repeater control system
that WB6YMI (sk) and I designed in the 70s.
73's Skip
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sun, Aug 7, 2022 at 6:46 PM Casey Crane <ccrane148@...> wrote:
I have never used Kicad, I'm an Eagle Cad guy or I would take it on. My other issues are medical issues the wife is having so my time is really limited. I think it's a great idea though. I have never used micropython, only regular python but I'm interested in taking a look at it. What IDE do you write it in? Do you use VS code or something? That's what I used for the Uniden head.
On Sun, Aug 7, 2022 at 8:25 PM Skip Hansen <skip@...> wrote:
I'm going to make a bizarre proposal. Let's redo the Xcat using the Pi Pico as a stepping stone to the X9000. We already know everything we need to know about the X and electrically it has the same issues as the X9000 (5 volt logic levels).
The RP2040-Zero form factor () as castellated module would be ideal for a DIY project. The module would just solder on to a custom board we'd design. With Kicad and the cheap and fast low quantity PCB houses suchj as JLCPCB we have now a small run of PCBs is cheaper than a burger.
I'll commit to doing the code. I've already ordered 3 modules.
Is there anyone in the group that'll commit to doing the PCB?
Once it's working on the X the same code base can be updated to work with the X9000 once it has given up its mysteries.
73's Skip WB6YMH
|
Mornin' All, Let's redo the Xcat using the Pi Pico as a stepping stone to the X9000. I like the idea of using the Pi Pico.? I've wanted to do a project with one.? The symbol/footprint/3D libraries are available for KiCad: Hmmm, I see that the Waveshare version is a different schematic and footprint.? I found a symbol.? Maybe we can find the footprint library. Is there anyone in the group that'll commit to doing the PCB? I develop in KiCAD for JHK-Labs and S-COM Controllers.? I already order boards from JLCPCB.? I can do this project. Can somebody start the design by sketching the schematic?? I'll also need a board outline and critical connector position.? We'll do design reviews to keep the design on track. That work? 73, ? Dave -- Dave Maciorowski, WA1JHK S-COM, LLC JHK-Labs On 8/7/2022 7:25 PM, Skip Hansen wrote: I'm going to make a bizarre proposal.? Let's redo the Xcat using the Pi Pico as a stepping stone to the X9000. ?We already know everything we need to know about the X and electrically it has the same issues as the X9000 (5 volt logic levels).
The RP2040-Zero form factor () as castellated module would?be ideal for a DIY project.? The module?would just solder on to a custom board we'd design.? With Kicad and the cheap and fast low quantity?PCB houses suchj as JLCPCB we have now a small run of PCBs is cheaper than a burger.
I'll commit to doing the code.? I've already ordered 3 modules.
Is there anyone in the group that'll commit to doing the PCB?
Once it's working on the X the same code base can be updated to work with the X9000 once it has given up its mysteries.
73's Skip WB6YMH
-- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
|
Good morning Dave! Thank you for volunteering !!!? The C64 Rom project is very close to what we need, you can find the schematic here: .? The schematic for the original Xcat is here:? /g/xcat/files/XCat%20files/xcat-schematic.PDF.? I'll get started on generating a new schematic. So questions for all that are interested: Do we still need RS232 level converters for the serial port?? My opinion is NO, 3v3 levels and an FTDI USB cable for a PC connection. Do we still need Doug Hall support?? If so we will need level converters for that interface.? Personally I'd like to drop it, I don't have any way to test it. What did we miss on the original Xcat that we can add now?? One request I remember is support for 64 modes, that should be no problem for the new board. My idea for the Xcat 2022 is for it to be a completely open source project including the firmware and PCB.? If someone wants to build one themselves, great! If someone wants to kit it up and sell a kit then have at it (it won't be me!). If someone wants to sell built and tested boards more power to them (that wont be me either!). 73's Skip WB6YMH
|
I have a Doug Hall unit and radio(s) if you need for testing.
Jeff - KD6GDB
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 8:22 AM Skip Hansen < skip@...> wrote: Good morning Dave!
Thank you for volunteering !!!?
The C64 Rom project is very close to what we need, you can find the schematic here: .?
The schematic for the original Xcat is here:?/g/xcat/files/XCat%20files/xcat-schematic.PDF.?
I'll get started on generating a new schematic.
So questions for all that are interested:
Do we still need RS232 level converters for the serial port?? My opinion is NO, 3v3 levels and an FTDI USB cable for a PC connection.
Do we still need Doug Hall support?? If so we will need level converters for that interface.? Personally I'd like to drop it, I don't have any way to test it.
What did we miss on the original Xcat that we can add now?? One request I remember is support for 64 modes, that should be no problem for the new board.
My idea for the Xcat 2022 is for it to be a completely open source project including the firmware and PCB.?
If someone wants to build one themselves, great!
If someone wants to kit it up and sell a kit then have at it (it won't be me!).
If someone wants to sell built and tested boards more power to them (that wont be me either!).
73's Skip WB6YMH
-- Pursuant to U.S. Code, title 47, Chapter 5, Sub chapter II, ?227,
"Any and all non solicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee of $500.00 U.S.". E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
|
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 08:22 AM, Skip Hansen wrote:
So questions for all that are interested:
Do we still need RS232 level converters for the serial port?? My opinion is NO, 3v3 levels and an FTDI USB cable for a PC connection.
Do we still need Doug Hall support?? If so we will need level converters for that interface.? Personally I'd like to drop it, I don't have any way to test it.
What did we miss on the original Xcat that we can add now?? One request I remember is support for 64 modes, that should be no problem for the new board.
I agree with the baby step process, It is easier to interface to the X's hardware. Not that it matters with the Pico, but it runs a bit slower too. No SB9600 commands to deal with. Wirelrss UI and no PC programability would still be PH II, but it would serve as an up to date Xcat 2.0 (Xcat 2022) Serial port - I dont see any reason to mandate legacy serial support either. Real com ports have all vut completeey dissapeard from new devices. USB for better or worse it it's replacement. Doug Hall support - That's a question for the remote base users and if those controllers are still around. If the code can be ported easily enough, sure, other wise probably not worth the extra effort. I thinks CI-V is still widely used and it is not hard to replicate a stand alone DTMF based controller/interface. BTW, are you any kin to or familiar with the work of a guy named? John Hansen? http://www.amalgamate2000.com/radio-hobbies/radio/a_dtmf_controlled_icr75.htm New features - More modes of course. Why stop at 64? An MPL type function that has them all in a table in FW and linked to a mode by executing a (probably custom) CI-V protocol command Motorola's interpretation of scan needs revised for our purposes. They think in PS/commercial terms as in "How many channels do you really need to monitor?" If you are listening to something other than dispatch, your being inattentative to your task. Banks of n channels, ala zones that can be chained to scan every channel in every bank if desired. Per mode lists are likely a bit too much. I do realize all that may be too much of a re-write of your PC based control program. See what happens when you ask a mad scientist for a Christmas wishlist?
|
64 modes is what the Syntor X could support (sort of, two independent banks of 32) from what I recall. As for the mad scientist in you ... no problem! 73's Skip WB6YMH On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 10:32 AM swguest via groups.io <swguest@...> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 08:22 AM, Skip Hansen wrote:
So questions for all that are interested:
Do we still need RS232 level converters for the serial port? My opinion is NO, 3v3 levels and an FTDI USB cable for a PC connection.
Do we still need Doug Hall support? If so we will need level converters for that interface. Personally I'd like to drop it, I don't have any way to test it.
What did we miss on the original Xcat that we can add now? One request I remember is support for 64 modes, that should be no problem for the new board.
I agree with the baby step process, It is easier to interface to the X's hardware. Not that it matters with the Pico, but it runs a bit slower too. No SB9600 commands to deal with. Wirelrss UI and no PC programability would still be PH II, but it would serve as an up to date Xcat 2.0 (Xcat 2022)
Serial port - I dont see any reason to mandate legacy serial support either. Real com ports have all vut completeey dissapeard from new devices. USB for better or worse it it's replacement.
Doug Hall support - That's a question for the remote base users and if those controllers are still around. If the code can be ported easily enough, sure, other wise probably not worth the extra effort.
I thinks CI-V is still widely used and it is not hard to replicate a stand alone DTMF based controller/interface. BTW, are you any kin to or familiar with the work of a guy named John Hansen?
New features -
More modes of course. Why stop at 64?
An MPL type function that has them all in a table in FW and linked to a mode by executing a (probably custom) CI-V protocol command
Motorola's interpretation of scan needs revised for our purposes. They think in PS/commercial terms as in "How many channels do you really need to monitor?" If you are listening to something other than dispatch, your being inattentative to your task.
Banks of n channels, ala zones that can be chained to scan every channel in every bank if desired.
Per mode lists are likely a bit too much.
I do realize all that may be too much of a re-write of your PC based control program.
See what happens when you ask a mad scientist for a Christmas wishlist?
|
64 modes is what the Syntor X could support (sort of, two independent > banks of 32) from what I recall. The M6 mode line is used, as you would expect. It basically ends up selecting which moby of the EPROM to access. The ways that 64 modes aren't really supported are largely related to the control head stack (fixed interpretation of cable signals) and the scan programming (only 32 bits for scan definitions). The Operator Select MPL head uses the upper moby to provide the feature, so you can't really have 64 modes and MPL. The HHCH may differ slightly. De
|
Hi Skip,
> Do we still need Doug Hall support?? If so we will need
level converters for that interface.? Personally I'd like to
drop it, I don't have any way to test it.
I wrote the Doug Hall RBI-1 firmware support for the S-COM 7K
controller.? I still get requests for
RBI support on the S-COM 7330 -- I'm in the
middle of implementing that now.? I have an RBI and radios to
test with.? I don't have an Xcat and radio, though I'm sure we
can fix that.
Will the USB connector on the Pico replace the serial port?
BTW, there's both a MicroPython (the original) and CircuitPython
(supported by Adafruit).
73,
? Dave
On 8/8/2022 9:22 AM, Skip Hansen wrote:
Good morning Dave!
Thank you for volunteering !!!?
The C64 Rom project is very close to what we need, you can find
the schematic here: .?
The schematic for the original Xcat is here:?/g/xcat/files/XCat%20files/xcat-schematic.PDF.?
I'll get started on generating a new schematic.
So questions for all that are interested:
Do we still need RS232 level converters for the serial port?? My
opinion is NO, 3v3 levels and an FTDI USB cable for a PC
connection.
Do we still need Doug Hall support?? If so we will need level
converters for that interface.? Personally I'd like to drop it, I
don't have any way to test it.
What did we miss on the original Xcat that we can add now?? One
request I remember is support for 64 modes, that should be no
problem for the new board.
My idea for the Xcat 2022 is for it to be a completely open source
project including the firmware and PCB.?
If someone wants to build one themselves, great!
If someone wants to kit it up and sell a kit then have at it (it
won't be me!).
If someone wants to sell built and tested boards more power to
them (that wont be me either!).
73's Skip WB6YMH
|
|
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
|
|
So questions for all that are interested: This wasn't exactly a question, but: I'll point out that for the X, one of the very handy things about having an Xcat is that you don't need to unbutton the radio to fish out its code plug unit. Even if you're not doing VFO, it's a far easier reflash over serial. For either the X or the 9000, the "RSS" is a lot easier to interact with, since it's not constrained to suitcase programmers, slow DOS machines, weird text-file driven unix command line tools, etc. What I'm roughly suggesting is that for both the Xcat-2022 and the Xcat9000-2022, one potentially nice operating mode to preserve is "load the code plug, then use the native control heads". *asbestos suit* De
|
Would it be possible to use say a Spectra control head
or even an XTL CH and interface that with the X/9000?
I'm thinking have a CH that talks to the interface,
then the interface talks to whatever the radio is.
(IOW: a translater that uses the CH input
and programs the radio accordingly)
Some of those older CHs are dated and limited.
Joe M.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 8/8/2022 2:55 PM, Dennis Boone wrote: > So questions for all that are interested:
This wasn't exactly a question, but:
I'll point out that for the X, one of the very handy things about having
an Xcat is that you don't need to unbutton the radio to fish out its
code plug unit. Even if you're not doing VFO, it's a far easier reflash
over serial.
For either the X or the 9000, the "RSS" is a lot easier to interact
with, since it's not constrained to suitcase programmers, slow DOS
machines, weird text-file driven unix command line tools, etc.
What I'm roughly suggesting is that for both the Xcat-2022 and the
Xcat9000-2022, one potentially nice operating mode to preserve is "load
the code plug, then use the native control heads".
*asbestos suit*
De
|
I'm not against it and I thing it would be great.?
As a personal goal I would still like to pursue some verion of a project that is a full featured touch interface with front panel programming, VFO, scan, large alphanumeric names based on regular fonts with per channel PL/DCS programmability. Basically a low-band Yaesu type unit. These things are just too high performing RF wise not to be explited to the maximum, in my opinion. Of course, that leads to things becoming much more tedious, custimized, probably much more cost and custom?work. Probably more of a personal project.
Just getting a handle on the basic TX/RX and signalling controls of it is the key. From there the options are unlimited.
Just my thoughts anyway.
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 1:55 PM Dennis Boone < drb@...> wrote: ?> So questions for all that are interested:
This wasn't exactly a question, but:
I'll point out that for the X, one of the very handy things about having
an Xcat is that you don't need to unbutton the radio to fish out its
code plug unit.? Even if you're not doing VFO, it's a far easier reflash
over serial.
For either the X or the 9000, the "RSS" is a lot easier to interact
with, since it's not constrained to suitcase programmers, slow DOS
machines, weird text-file driven unix command line tools, etc.
What I'm roughly suggesting is that for both the Xcat-2022 and the
Xcat9000-2022, one potentially nice operating mode to preserve is "load
the code plug, then use the native control heads".
*asbestos suit*
De
|
My thoughts on this were to try to use an MCS2000 head translated to whatever format decided upon. They are about the only full keypad CH available in any numbers that are cheap and more advanced.
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 2:04 PM Joe M. < mch@...> wrote: Would it be possible to use say a Spectra control head
or even an XTL CH and interface that with the X/9000?
I'm thinking have a CH that talks to the interface,
then the interface talks to whatever the radio is.
(IOW: a translater that uses the CH input
and programs the radio accordingly)
Some of those older CHs are dated and limited.
Joe M.
On 8/8/2022 2:55 PM, Dennis Boone wrote:
>? ?> So questions for all that are interested:
>
> This wasn't exactly a question, but:
>
> I'll point out that for the X, one of the very handy things about having
> an Xcat is that you don't need to unbutton the radio to fish out its
> code plug unit.? Even if you're not doing VFO, it's a far easier reflash
> over serial.
>
> For either the X or the 9000, the "RSS" is a lot easier to interact
> with, since it's not constrained to suitcase programmers, slow DOS
> machines, weird text-file driven unix command line tools, etc.
>
> What I'm roughly suggesting is that for both the Xcat-2022 and the
> Xcat9000-2022, one potentially nice operating mode to preserve is "load
> the code plug, then use the native control heads".
>
> *asbestos suit*
>
> De
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
@ Dennis,
?Since this isn't Newsgroups (are they even still around?) or some of those other forums, We need a sign that say "Asbestos PPE not required to operate here".
I do agree maintaining (and establishing for the X9000) a non RSS based PC program to access the emulator's codeplug data for maintenance purposes is a good idea.
|
@Joe,
Although they speak SB9600 structure and protocol, it's unlikely many (if any) of the actual command packets are the same for a given function. At least for a radio from the X9000's era.
?Acquiring enough knowledge to create a uC program to translate each command sent and received by both the radio and the head would be a true labor of love.
Interfacing an XTL or MCS2000 or other head via SB9600 to an emulating uC device like we are talking about is almost as intensive.
The concept is awesome, like you said the OEM heads are getting a hard to come by and more than a bit long in the tooth.
Since such translating would be processor intensive, it would sure be a good reason to unload the uC by way of using the state machine/DMA scheme Skip mentioned.
@ Casey,
?RE: VFO operation ideas....how is you mad scientist hat fitting today?........
|
I am all for a "translator". I mentioned this elsewhere. What about the "09" control head? Are they useful? Cheap enough? Plentiful?
PMUN1045C
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 03:04 PM, Joe M. wrote:
Would it be possible to use say a Spectra control head
or even an XTL CH and interface that with the X/9000?
I'm thinking have a CH that talks to the interface,
then the interface talks to whatever the radio is.
(IOW: a translater that uses the CH input
and programs the radio accordingly)
Some of those older CHs are dated and limited.
Joe M.
On 8/8/2022 2:55 PM, Dennis Boone wrote:
> So questions for all that are interested:
This wasn't exactly a question, but:
I'll point out that for the X, one of the very handy things about having
an Xcat is that you don't need to unbutton the radio to fish out its
code plug unit. Even if you're not doing VFO, it's a far easier reflash
over serial.
For either the X or the 9000, the "RSS" is a lot easier to interact
with, since it's not constrained to suitcase programmers, slow DOS
machines, weird text-file driven unix command line tools, etc.
What I'm roughly suggesting is that for both the Xcat-2022 and the
Xcat9000-2022, one potentially nice operating mode to preserve is "load
the code plug, then use the native control heads".
*asbestos suit*
De
|
Hi Dave,
I would rather NOT use the USB serial port to simplify the wiring and to minimize high speed signals inside of the radio.? USB would be used to flash the board with the initial?flash image.??
Possible wiring options: 1. Route 3.3V Rxd, Txd via unused control cable pins or just drill a hole for a 3 pin cable. 2. Route 5V Doug Hall clock and data line via unused control cable pins or just drill a hole for a 3 pin cable.
For the Xcat-9000 another option would be to use SB9600 for communications and attach the Xcat2022 to the SB9600 bus internally.? ?No need to find unused control?cable poins or drill holes for a new cable.? I'm starting to like this...
Testng the Doug Hall interface should be easy even w/o a radio.? You would need one of your controllers connected to the new board and the original?XCat PC control program or a successor.? Frequencies set via the Doug Hall interface can be read back over CI-V.? If they are correct then we're good to go.
73's Skip WB6YMH
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 11:41 AM Dave WA1JHK < wa1jhk@...> wrote:
Hi Skip,
> Do we still need Doug Hall support?? If so we will need
level converters for that interface.? Personally I'd like to
drop it, I don't have any way to test it.
I wrote the Doug Hall RBI-1 firmware support for the S-COM 7K
controller.? I still get requests for
RBI support on the S-COM 7330 -- I'm in the
middle of implementing that now.? I have an RBI and radios to
test with.? I don't have an Xcat and radio, though I'm sure we
can fix that.
Will the USB connector on the Pico replace the serial port?
BTW, there's both a MicroPython (the original) and CircuitPython
(supported by Adafruit).
73,
? Dave
On 8/8/2022 9:22 AM, Skip Hansen wrote:
Good morning Dave!
Thank you for volunteering !!!?
The C64 Rom project is very close to what we need, you can find
the schematic here: .?
The schematic for the original Xcat is here:?/g/xcat/files/XCat%20files/xcat-schematic.PDF.?
I'll get started on generating a new schematic.
So questions for all that are interested:
Do we still need RS232 level converters for the serial port?? My
opinion is NO, 3v3 levels and an FTDI USB cable for a PC
connection.
Do we still need Doug Hall support?? If so we will need level
converters for that interface.? Personally I'd like to drop it, I
don't have any way to test it.
What did we miss on the original Xcat that we can add now?? One
request I remember is support for 64 modes, that should be no
problem for the new board.
My idea for the Xcat 2022 is for it to be a completely open source
project including the firmware and PCB.?
If someone wants to build one themselves, great!
If someone wants to kit it up and sell a kit then have at it (it
won't be me!).
If someone wants to sell built and tested boards more power to
them (that wont be me either!).
73's Skip WB6YMH
|
|
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
|
|
 Well this is exciting! Much appreciation for Skip and everyone else working together on this. ?+1 here for someone with Doug hall’ed xcats on the air who would really like to see support for that. I’d be happy to do any testing on the bench here.?
Cheers Sam
On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 8:22 AM, Skip Hansen < skip@...> wrote: Good morning Dave!
Thank you for volunteering !!!?
The C64 Rom project is very close to what we need, you can find the schematic here: .?
The schematic for the original Xcat is here:?.?
I'll get started on generating a new schematic.
So questions for all that are interested:
Do we still need RS232 level converters for the serial port?? My opinion is NO, 3v3 levels and an FTDI USB cable for a PC connection.
Do we still need Doug Hall support?? If so we will need level converters for that interface.? Personally I'd like to drop it, I don't have any way to test it.
What did we miss on the original Xcat that we can add now?? One request I remember is support for 64 modes, that should be no problem for the new board.
My idea for the Xcat 2022 is for it to be a completely open source project including the firmware and PCB.?
If someone wants to build one themselves, great!
If someone wants to kit it up and sell a kit then have at it (it won't be me!).
If someone wants to sell built and tested boards more power to them (that wont be me either!).
73's Skip WB6YMH
|
Dave WA1JHK
RFI-EMI-GUY