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USB and USB-D audio levels different

 

I have a problem using fldigi with my 7300. There is a huge difference in the sensitivity between USB and USB-D modes. I can not find any way to change this in the settings. If I set the computer and fldigi output level and radio USB MOD Level for about 50% power in USB-D mode, I get full power+ in USB. If I set the levels for 50% power in USB mode, I can hardly get any modulation in USB-D even if I crank the fldigi output from -30 to 0.

This happens whether I use flrig or rigCAT for radio control. It happens with different versions of fldigi.

I have DATA OFF MOD set to MIC, USB and DATA MOD set to USB. Because I am operating in some mixed mode nets I do not want to restrict DATA OFF MOD to MIC only.

I do not see any setting in the radio to equalize this and I do not see anything in fldigi that would change the output level depending on whether the radio was in USB or USB-D mode.
 

Pete:
First of all, FLDIGI only deals with modes that require USB-D.
I took have an IC7300, and as recently as today I validated all of the radio settings to do this using FLDIGI+FLDIGI: transmit RTTY 45 baud (a test; there's never anybody on RTTY?); copied W1AW bulletin in PSK31 and RTTY45.

I have zeroed in on settings for the IC7300 in communication with my Win 11 PC that work without changes when I run any of these:

Plain old SSB, no computer involved except logging using N1MM+

Plain old CW, either independent of computer or using? N1MM+ for both logging or send/receive prepared text.

WSJTX for FT8. (NOTE: I have not linked the WSJTX program to log in N1MM. I run WSJTX as a stand-alone program.)

N1MM+ for CW contesting, general day-to-day logging,? and (occasionally) logging my rare SSB contacts.

WINLINK + VARA-HF for emergency HF email communication.

All of the above programs and modes run on my IC7300 without alterations. I use a? single USB/RS232 cable between the PC and the radio. Speed is set at 115k baud, but irrelevant as long as the PC and the radio? are set to the same setting.

HINT: if turning the tuning dial on the 7300 changes the frequency shown on the PC's program, that's a great proof that the radio and the PC are "talking nicely" to each other.

NEXT: Download the IC7300 manual, and search for the section called SETTINGS"

Find the heading called DATA OFF MOD". It can be set to MIC-- because it only affects where the MIC signal goes when in a voice mode like SSB.

(I don't understand your comment about "mixed mode nets")

Finally, if any of this message is of interest, contact me by email at K2TNO@...

The best way to deal with stuff like this is to have a ZOOM call, in which we can share screens and talk too

Contact me if helpful -- if not helpful remember that the info was worth what you paid for it!

73
Bill K2TNO


On Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 11:29?PM Pete Newell via <prn628=[email protected]> wrote:
I have a problem using fldigi with my 7300. There is a huge difference in the sensitivity between USB and USB-D modes. I can not find any way to change this in the settings. If I set the computer and fldigi output level and radio USB MOD Level for about 50% power in USB-D mode, I get full power+ in USB. If I set the levels for 50% power in USB mode, I can hardly get any modulation in USB-D even if I crank the fldigi output from -30 to 0.

This happens whether I use flrig or rigCAT for radio control. It happens with different versions of fldigi.

I have DATA OFF MOD set to MIC, USB and DATA MOD set to USB. Because I am operating in some mixed mode nets I do not want to restrict DATA OFF MOD to MIC only.

I do not see any setting in the radio to equalize this and I do not see anything in fldigi that would change the output level depending on whether the radio was in USB or USB-D mode.
 

Fldigi doesn't require USB-D.? All it requires is getting audio between the computer and radio and some way to key the radio.
?
There is no such thing as USB-D on my IC-706 MkIIg (or any older transceiver) and fldigi works just fine with simple sound card interface consisting of audio connections with isolation transformers between a cheap USB audio device and the radio's 6 pin 'data' connector, and a reed relay controlled by an actual com port for PTT.
?
Mixed mode nets = voice and data on the same frequency. Possible on 60 meters, and on other services such as MARS and SHARES, and I need to do this.
?
I encountered a? problem with USB-D mode when I set up digital on my IC-746pro (with a Signalink and not using CAT control) years ago. I found I could not use the 6 pin DIN "data" connector and do MARS because the radio ignored the audio into the data connector in USB mode and it ignored the audio from the microphone in USB-D mode. So I used the accy connector instead and just left the radio in USB.
?
The 7300 has an internal sound card ("USB Audio CODEC") and com port (CI-V equivalent) CAT interface, and it also allows you to program whether or not the MIC and/or USB (internal sound card) audio is used or ignored in DATA MOD and DATA OFF MOD. As far as I can see the only way USB and USB-D is different is if you set the DATA MOD and DATA OFF MOD sources to be different. I see nothing about USB-D doing anything different in receive.
?
There is an internal sound card audio modulation level control (USB MOD Level) but I see no separate setting for the level based on whether the radio is in USB or USB-D. However it appears that there is about a 20 dB difference in sensitivity between USB and USB-D. I determined this by setting the fldigi output using the control in lower right to the required level to achieve about 50% power in one mode and then changing it to achieve about the same power in the other mode.
?
Fldigi knows whether the radio is in USB or USB-D mode but it does not change the output level based on this information. I checked just to be sure.
?
I could just forget about USB-D mode for fldigi but it would be nice to use it so that the microphone is muted when transmitting.
?
.
Mike Black
 

If you have USB-D it's usually better -- although some rigs don't have enough bandwidth in digital mode (they were designed for RTTY).

USB-D will turn off all filters.

For those rigs that don't have USB-D you do have to use USB of course and the filters are up to you to be sure they are off.

Mike W9MDB

On Wednesday, December 18, 2024 at 09:51:21 AM CST, Pete Newell via groups.io <prn628@...> wrote:





Fldigi doesn't require USB-D.? All it requires is getting audio between the computer and radio and some way to key the radio.

?

There is no such thing as USB-D on my IC-706 MkIIg (or any older transceiver) and fldigi works just fine with simple sound card interface consisting of audio connections with isolation transformers between a cheap USB audio device and the radio's 6 pin 'data' connector, and a reed relay controlled by an actual com port for PTT.

?

Mixed mode nets = voice and data on the same frequency. Possible on 60 meters, and on other services such as MARS and SHARES, and I need to do this.

?

I encountered a? problem with USB-D mode when I set up digital on my IC-746pro (with a Signalink and not using CAT control) years ago. I found I could not use the 6 pin DIN "data" connector and do MARS because the radio ignored the audio into the data connector in USB mode and it ignored the audio from the microphone in USB-D mode. So I used the accy connector instead and just left the radio in USB.

?

The 7300 has an internal sound card ("USB Audio CODEC") and com port (CI-V equivalent) CAT interface, and it also allows you to program whether or not the MIC and/or USB (internal sound card) audio is used or ignored in DATA MOD and DATA OFF MOD. As far as I can see the only way USB and USB-D is different is if you set the DATA MOD and DATA OFF MOD sources to be different. I see nothing about USB-D doing anything different in receive.

?

There is an internal sound card audio modulation level control (USB MOD Level) but I see no separate setting for the level based on whether the radio is in USB or USB-D. However it appears that there is about a 20 dB difference in sensitivity between USB and USB-D. I determined this by setting the fldigi output using the control in lower right to the required level to achieve about 50% power in one mode and then changing it to achieve about the same power in the other mode.

?

Fldigi knows whether the radio is in USB or USB-D mode but it does not change the output level based on this information. I checked just to be sure.

?

I could just forget about USB-D mode for fldigi but it would be nice to use it so that the microphone is muted when transmitting.

?

.
 

I can't find anything in the 7300 manual which indicates precisely what USB-D does.? Filter bandwidths for Data mode can be defined differently than SSB and going into Data mode automatically selects FIL 1 and I presume selects/blocks modulation in accordance with the DATA MOD menu setting, but it does not disable NB, NR, Notch, etc. I can find no separate level ("gain") setting and it makes no sense that the internal sound card modulation gain would be dropped 20 dB but that is what appears to happen.
 

Digital modes or Data modes are using Upper Side Band a.k.a USB not to be confused with USB a.k.a. Universal Serial Buss. There is the microphone input MIC on the front of the radio and the data input, usually on the back of the radio and may be described as USB-D. The Mic input may have speech processing and equalization applied. As Mike, W9MDB stated earlier, it is up to the user to set the values to zero or no speech processing and to neutralize all EQ for a flat or unifiorm response. Many of the newer radios, offering data inputs will automatically take the EQ and Speech Processing circuits out of the audio path. when the data mode is selected.

I strongly suggest, if available on any radio, one should use the Line input or Data input on the rear of the radio. The MIC or microphone input either on the front or rear of the radio should be used for a microphone only. There are vast level differences, and likewise gain structure, between line or data input and microphone level inputs.

For better understanding of a specific radio and its input requirements, these are described in the manual for the specific brand and model.

73
Bob, K4TAX
 

Pete,
As for differences in audio modulation levels between USB and USB-D is most likely due to MOD level for those modes.? Check the Set Mode menu for Connectors in the manual page 12-7 & 8, in the edition on hand here.? Check those settings levels, they should match for USB MOD Level and DATA MOD Level.? The default is 50%.?
Others have answered the what does D mode do question.??
Regards, Phil / K4PO
 

With most radios today, when switching to a data mode, thus the line input on the rear panel, the MIC knob becomes the Line Gain control. Thus in SSB mode, USB or LSB, the MIC knob controls the microphone gain. Its value is saved. When one switches to the data mode, the MIC control sets the line gain and the value is saved. Thus switching between modes, no level adjustment is required. Also, data mode will negate any EQ settings and speech processing values used for SSB.

73
Bob, K4TAX

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