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Brake Fluid Replacement?
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Since we have visited the topic of brakes today, let me throw out a question
to the group. The other day I send off a friend of mine with the instructions to have his brake fluid purged. It was completely black and the nastiest looking stuff I had ever seen in a brake system. I purge my fluid at least every two years. Anyway, he came back from four different brakes shops that laughed at him and told him they never heard of such a thing. They told him the only reason for purging the fluid was to bleed out air from the system. I'm still sticking with the idea that it should be purged but only because of what my grandfather once taught me (Remember he's the guy that tourqued his head stud nuts every spring). Here was the reasoning he gave me back then: Brake systems are open pressure systems, in that they are vented to the outside air. Each time you step on the brake pedal you pull outside air into the system (I'm thinking that maybe the new systems aren't like this because they have the rubber diaphragm at the top of the reservoir). With the air also comes moisture which is absorbed into the brake fluid. Since most brake components are made of cast iron (Wheel cylinders and master cylinder) the moisture coming in contact with the iron causes corrosion. That corrosion is what is causing the fluid to become black. By the time the fluid has gotten that dark it has collected a lot of moisture and has become more corrosive than clean brake fluid. This is turn causes the insides of the components to become pitted and soon thereafter fail. Whether or not the reasoning has any merit I can't say. I am not, nor have I ever professed to being a real mechanic. Everything I have learned has come through the school of hard knocks and from reading tech manuals. If I have this wrong please let me know so I can quit recommending this procedure to people. Thanks guys Rick S (TX) I'm curious, Do we have any certified mechanics on the list? Not that you have to be certified to know what your talking about. Some of the worst mechanics I've seen still had the paper to back them up. No, I'm not saying that because you have the certification your a bad mechanic either. It's just curiosity :-) |
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In a message dated 6/20/99 2:30:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Rick48CJ2A@... writes: << The other day I send off a friend of mine with the instructions to have his brake fluid purged. It was completely black and the nastiest looking stuff I had ever seen in a brake system. I purge my fluid at least every two years. Anyway, he came back from four different brakes shops that laughed at him and told him they never heard of such a thing. >> I think the term that a brake shop would recognize is "power bleed." Tom |
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I was told that using your vehicle regularly meant that you used your brakes
a lot soooo it meant that HEAT from the brakes kept the cylinders warm & that drove the moisture out! Does that make sense? I have chosen the DOT 5 and never have to worry about it again! Ken Valley Forge PA 50 Willys PU/Stake <A href=">Gallery B2 </A> |
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In a message dated 6/20/99 4:45:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
rlcook@... writes: << Rick, Granddad had it right and you are giving the fellow the proper advise. >> Thanks guys, I feel a lot better now. I must say that it feels kinda strange to have someone come back saying they laughed at him because of the advise you gave. Rick S (TX) |
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Ronald L. Cook
Rick,
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Granddad had it right and you are giving the fellow the proper advise. I think Landon is ASE certified. Ron, IA 43GPW with new brake fluid, 51M38 with no brake fluid Rick48CJ2A@... wrote:
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Ronald L. Cook
Ken,
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Think that one over again. How hot does water need to be to disappear? Will seals last at that temperature? DOT 5 has its own set of problems. Not completely trouble free either. Water can get in all of them via the method described by Rick, or by submerging the master cylinder vent. Purging is easy and cheap. Ron, Ia Kenjdorm@... wrote:
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William T Wilson
On Sun, 20 Jun 1999 Rick48CJ2A@... wrote:
at least every two years. Anyway, he came back from four differentMy rule is that the fluid should be flushed every two years, or whenever the brake pads (shoes) are changed. Brake fluid is *extremely* hydrophilic; it absorbs water like crazy. As this water builds up in the brake fluid, it does many bad things to the brake system, including rusting the brake components, and making the fluid less effective. On an open brake system, the brake fluid collects atmospheric water whether you step on the brake pedal or not. On modern cars, the fluid does stay cherry red longer than on our Jeeps. I've got a Geo which has had the same brake fluid in it for two and a half years and it is as red as new. I would change it, except the brake pads refuse to wear out. (Sometimes I think this car does not actually use its own mechanical components, but instead is simply a gateway to an advanced interdimensional transportation network.) |
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Chris Croyle
I mechanic I know who is ASE certified and an auto mechanic instructor for
my area's vocational school once told me he has never had to replace a brake master cylinder in his automobile due to flushing the brake system every 2 years. I recall him mentioning about the moisture collecting in the brake system and I believe an ionic reaction with the electrical system that causes a black corrosion in the brake fluid. Chris Croyle (PA) 1961 Willys 4WD PU |
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Richard Grover
I know this thread is getting long, but I wanted to add my opinion that the
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brake shops that have never heard of flushing the brake system are QUACKS! They don't understand the systems they purport to service. When they laugh at you, shake your head in pity like you do when dealing with idiots elsewhere. There have been court cases trying to find fault with the US automakers for not including brake flushing as a regular maintenance item. Apparently they have lost, because we are still debating the issue. I have heard that many auto makers include biannual flushing in their recommendations in some foreign countries, even some of the US makers who disavow any knowledge of it domestically. Even in newer systems, DOT3 and DOT4 only retain their effectiveness for a few of years. With vented systems like the Willys Jeeps, I think two years is pushing it. Brake fluid should be clear. When it is black, it is over the hill. When it is brown, replace it. Moisture in the brakes will cause corrosion, but it under extreme braking situations (steep grades and/or heavy loads) it can also cause catastrophic brake failure (and death). It is a modern marketing deception that you can have a maintenance free vehicle. Cars need more maintenance than most people give them. We are driving old iron that needs even more maintenance. Rick G. in AZ PS. DOT5 has its own problems (air entrainment). -----Original Message-----
From: Rick48CJ2A@... [mailto:Rick48CJ2A@...] Sent: Sunday, June 20, 1999 11:30 AM To: WillysTech@... Subject: [WT] Brake Fluid Replacement? ... Anyway, he came back from four different brakes shops that laughed at him and told him they never heard of such a thing.... |
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Reed Cary
--- Ed Dyvig <eddyvig@...> wrote:
Yeah, we had a guy one place I worked - had never changed his oil since he bought his Ford pickup. He was proud, 100,000+ miles later, and claimed it was because he used non-detergent oil (I guess it was his break-in oil). Secretly, we plotted to throw a quart of detergent oil it. We wouldn't really do it, of course. But he freaked out when he got wind of the idea. Reed === _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at |
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Ed Dyvig
I don't think changing engine oil can be compared to changing brake fluid. I
change my oil/filter/lube job every 2,000 to 3,000 miles. I'm not proud of the 152,000 mi brake fluid in my pickup, but personally I think flushing your brake system every 1 or 2 years is superfluous. Sorry if I offended anyone, I'm done with the brake fluid subject now! Gotta go scratch some paint off my CJ! Ed. |
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Richard Grover
Your 74 Ford does not have a vented master cylinder, so I would expect it to
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go further than the a Willys without brake fluid change. There is anecdotal evidence on both sides of the issue: cars that ran forever with no problem, and cars that had catastrophic brake failure (involving deaths) after only a few years. When my life is as stake, I prefer to err on the side of caution, even if it may turn out to be superfluous. I've worn seatbelts all my life, but never been in an accident where they saved me, at least not yet! :-) Rick G. in AZ -----Original Message-----
From: Ed Dyvig [mailto:eddyvig@...] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 4:56 PM To: WillysTech@... Subject: Re: [WT] Brake Fluid Replacement? From: "Ed Dyvig" <eddyvig@...> I don't think changing engine oil can be compared to changing brake fluid. I change my oil/filter/lube job every 2,000 to 3,000 miles. I'm not proud of the 152,000 mi brake fluid in my pickup, but personally I think flushing your brake system every 1 or 2 years is superfluous. Sorry if I offended anyone, I'm done with the brake fluid subject now! Gotta go scratch some paint off my CJ! Ed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ WillysTech NEW! Parts Buy/Sell/Swap Board Vehicle FAQ Sheets Parts Resource List _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ |
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