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Tripping Breaker

 

I have installed a PSXX Circuit Breaker Rev E? on my layout and a PSXX-AR Reverser on a WYE

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Any of three locos equipped with?DCC?decoder will sit on track and lights will work, horn and bell will sound ¡°on command¡±, even the lights will reverse when direction is reversed.? But, when forward or reverse speed is given, the loco will move a little then equipment will show a short.

Sequence is essentially, all green on both boards and loco begins to move, blue light on PSXX circuit breaker blinks, one of two green lights on that board goes off, then blue off and red light on at circuit breaker.

I am using an MRC Prodigy Express system with the PSXX modules.? I'm a little concerned that the MRC unit only puts out 1.6 amps so I cannot really increase the breaker amps beyond 1 amp or the breaker would never work. .? . I think.? Very small layout -- 4X6' with 2X8' extension.

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If there¡¯s an obvious answer, please let me know.? If not, I¡¯ll continue researching.
 

Set the breakers to trip at 2 amps. Then report back. Make sure there is no electrical connection from either motor connection to the motor or loco frame

DonV
 

Your system can put out more than 1.6A, but only for a few moments. That might be enough to get your locomotives to start. Set your PSX breaker higher and see if it trips.

Puckdropper
 

OK, I think I set the breaker to trip at 3 amps -- if 2 amps is good, 3 amps ought to be better -- using CV. I don't know if I can determine for sure the breaker trip setting has been changed.

I ran a loco over the "south" track gap for the WYE with no problem. Of course, I'm not sure if I can know if the reverser did it's job or if the tracks were already "lined up".

However, when I ran over the "north" WYE gap, which is near a turnout, I got a short and momentary (a couple of seconds) shutdown. As before, the breaker would reset and almost immediately trip again. The loco derailed at the turnout, so I think the next thing I need to do is find out why I got the derailment before going further with electrical issues!!
 

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Drawings are always helpful to see when requesting this kind of help, but do make certain that your reverser trip current any delay timing is LESS than your booster/power supply/overall trip current as you need the reverser to fail and swap the rail polarity before anything else trips.

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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of mwbailey
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2024 11:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Tripping Breaker

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OK, I think I set the breaker to trip at 3 amps -- if 2 amps is good, 3 amps ought to be better -- using CV. I don't know if I can determine for sure the breaker trip setting has been changed.

I ran a loco over the "south" track gap for the WYE with no problem. Of course, I'm not sure if I can know if the reverser did it's job or if the tracks were already "lined up".

However, when I ran over the "north" WYE gap, which is near a turnout, I got a short and momentary (a couple of seconds) shutdown. As before, the breaker would reset and almost immediately trip again. The loco derailed at the turnout, so I think the next thing I need to do is find out why I got the derailment before going further with electrical issues!!

 

You can easily verify that the auto reverser is working by using a short jumper wire across one of the rail isolating gaps. Place a non moving loco with the headlight on within the AR section. Then touch a jumper across the rail isolating gap¡­ first on the in line rail, then diagonal then in line again. The headlight should not blink. If it does, one of the reversers or booster supplies is cutting out. Do this from both ends of the AR section.

If the moving loco derails at the turnout that in itself can cause a short that trips one or more protective breakers. Fix that problem.

DonV
 

mwbailey,
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? Setting the breaker to 3 amps may just move the trip to the PowerCab?
instead of to the DCC breaker.? Tell us this - does the PowerCab 'blink'
when it trips when you power up?? If it does then your PowerCab is
already being overloaded during power up and uping the break level of
the breaker won't fix it.? You want -some- head room between the system
and the breaker but not too much.? Remember there is a breaker in the
PowerCab itself.? What you want to achieve is for your system (PowerCab)
to never power down - for the DCC breaker to handle the short ... that
way the system is always sending out the DCC signal.
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? You may be dealing with an overall over current situation.? To test for that
power off the PowerCab (or PowerPro) and take everything off the layout.
Now power up - if it doesn't trip then you are probably on to something.
? If it does trip with nothing on the layout - you have a wiring problem.? Or it
could be a closed gap.? It probably won't trip with nothing on the track.
?
? I'm going to assume it is an over current.? So now power the system off,
add one loco/passenger car at a time and power up and see if it comes up.
Continue, each time you have to power off before adding the additional
loco/psgr ... just keep adding until it trips.? Let the system 'drain' at least a
minute during each power off (longer is better).
? It may -never- trip ... if this is the case you are probably dealing with an
over current being caused by any keep alives in the locos.? Keep alives
draw a lot of current when they are first powered - to charge the caps.
A good hint at this will be if you can add one loco at a time to powered
track and all is fine - but if you cold start the system (2 or 3 minutes after
it is powered off) it trips then this points at the keep alives.??
? The first thing is to figure out what is causing the breaker to trip - then
we will deal with what you do about it.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Jim in the PNW
 
Edited

So, Jim Z suggested photos help.? I've attached a drawing called something like Paper Mill Extension.? The top, right track is the WYE with insulations/breaks (blue lines) where that track returns to the oval near the top and where another turnout leads back to the oval at the bottom.
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At this point -- when I get back from visiting a nephew to install three remote control turnouts on a DC layout -- I think I need to make sure the turnout just past the WYE at the top is not the culprit.? It seems to be creating derailments and that may be the source of my short!
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I'll keep working on this, albeit slowly, and really appreciate the advice I'm getting.
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if i understand the drawing and explanation correctly the left side semicircle actually connects to form an oval?? What's happening on the right side?? is that the end of the layout or does the layout continue?? if it continues, it would be useful to see the track connections on that side as well.
 

DonV,
??????? Thanks for the AR verification tip with the loco headlight. I've been chasing down a PM42 set up for AR and kept getting different readings and sometimes it would work but it was slow and not consistent. I thought my wiring was screwy but found it unlikely. Using your technique I found it was the PM42 itself which was failing. Replaced it with another that the club had and all worked perfectly.? Thanks again for the diagnostic tip.? Phil..... Rappahannock River Railroaders.
 

Your understanding is correct, Jim Z.? The semicircle in the drawing is actually an oval (with a few spurs and sidings).? On the right, the tracks stop at the end of the drawing and are not connected elsewhere.
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We were successful in installing three remote control turnouts with my nephew -- DC is a bunch easier to understand and troubleshoot than DCC.? Hope to get out to my layout tomorrow. . . if I don't die of heat stroke or something mowing the grass.
 

mwbailey,

The basic wiring requirements for DC and DCC are the same! If it's easier for you to think about it as wiring for DC, go ahead.

Most layouts, if they work for DC, will work with DCC without any other changes except boosters in place of DC throttles, and of course, they need a command station to create the data stream for the boosters.

Layouts with long wiring lengths may need terminations on the bus wiring that powers the local feeders. It may be beneficial to have the boosters distributed around the layout, closer to the tracks they power, same as wiring a DC layout with separate power divisions. But, DCC isn't magic. Don't let it scare you! The only magic in DCC is all the extra capabilities it provides!

Don W
Connecticut

--
Don Weigt
Connecticut
 

Don Weight is entirely correct

DonV

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