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Surge Protector for DCC Command Station/Booster

 

Hi every body !
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Consulting the NCE website, for the new Command Station PH5, it is recommended to use a Surge Protector. But, how to determine a GOOD Surge Protector? I definitely don't want to buy Dollar Store quality... I know, the Surge Protector is not designed to protect against lightning strikes.
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Thanks
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Eric
 

I use the commercial-grade surge protectors from Tripp-Lite. Not low price, as you might guess.
 

Thank you David for your response!
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I found a Surge Protector from Hammond Manufacturing on the Digikey website.
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Although I have a lot of knowledge of DCC, there are several features of the Surges Protector that I am not really familiar with.?
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What features should I consider when making my purchase decision?
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Mr Gartner, I need your help.
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Eric
 

Eric,

Tripp-Lite certainly makes good products. I think surge protectors sold at Best Buy are also good. Just make certain the packages say all three wires are protected. That means there's a surge protector to the ground wire from the hot and neutral wires, in addition to one between them.

Also, the MOVs in surge protectors are gradually degraded by absorbing the transient energy. So, their protection gradually becomes less. I've not done this myself, but it probably would be smart to replace them eventually, say every five years or so. Years ago, I read that most residential lines experience at least one transient of 1,000 Volts or more every day. Some are on the power coming into the residence, others are created in the residence from switching motors or other large inductive loads on and off. So, it's not just storms that cause degradation of the transient protection.

Don W

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Don Weigt
Connecticut
 

Hi Eric,
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I confess to not being an expert on surge suppressors. I can tell you what I do know.? If anyone knows more or better than I, I welcome your input.
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Every time a surge suppressor protects against a surge, it puts some wear on the suppressor.? Eventually, they need to be replaced.? So definitely get one with a light on it indicating it is still working.? This is not just a power light if the unit has a switch.? You want to get one with a light that is labeled with something that says it is protecting.? So some strips will have two lights - a power on and a protect light.
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A key number in suppressors is the number of Joules (J) it is rated for.? This is how much total surge energy it can protect against.? So the more the better.
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I didn't see a significant difference in the Hammond suppressors you found on Digikey.? As you noticed, a good suppressor cost money.? I think it is important that it not only protect between the incoming power, but between the power leads and ground.? Unfortunately, you can't tell when you are buying one that it built to do this.? I would definitely think the cheaper ones do not.
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The amperage rating is just how much the plug strip or whatever can handle through its power cord and internal parts.? This is not a function of the internal surge suppression components.? Surge suppressors are placed across the incoming power.? In normal operation, power does not flow through a surge suppressor.? Only during a surge event do the surge suppression components conduct power.
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The Hammond units you found on Digikey can be mounted in a rack.? I doubt you have a rack, so you may be paying for an industrial device you don't need.
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I have seen some suppressors that you can buy that come with some sort of warranty to protect your equipment. You're paying for that warranty when you buy that product. In concept, its not a bad idea.? Most suppressors, when honest in their advertising, state they do not protect in a direct strike. A direct strike is a pretty intense thing!
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You can definitely take this to an extreme.? For my garden railroad in TX, I put surge suppressors between the rails coming into my garage and also between each rail and a ground bus that I attached to a ground rod right by the garage door.? Unless you have a garden railroad, I'd say this is more than you need to do to an indoor layout.
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I do think it is a good idea if there is a way you can directly ground the surge suppressor strip.? But in most homes, you have to rely on your home's ground connection in the outlet.? For a lightning hit, this probably isn't good enough.? But running a ground bus to your model trains is a bit extreme.? If you are going to do this, you'd want to do your TV and just about any device in your home.? This isn't really practical.
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Note that if a reader wants to put surge suppressors (Transient Voltage Suppressors - TVS) on their G-scale layout, get ones that voltage rating is about 35V or just above your track voltage.? This is the voltage point that it will activate.? A typical home suppressors won't trigger until the surge exceeds your normal home wiring voltage.?
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You can buy plug strips with suppressors and indicator lights on that at home improvement stores.
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Allan Gartner
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Thanks to you, Allan, and Don.
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I finally learned about it! I know what to expect and to make a wise choice. I'm going to do some research with the different businesses we have here in Canada.
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I'm already familiar with the TVS diodes in the EB1 NCE and PSXX DCC Specialties circuit breakers (Thanks Larry Puckett). Plus those that we can install in locomotives.
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Future topic for your web site ?!
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Once again, Thank you very much!
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Eric
 

Hi Eric,
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I have used APC Surge protectors since they were in business back in the early 1980's They've never let me down. Tripplite is another great brand.
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Dan
 

Thanks Dan!
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I greatly appreciate the feedback I receive.
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I learn every time!
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Eric
 

I have two APC surge protectors. One on my PC and the other on my wife's. I can recommend them.
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
 

Thank's for the scoop and your experience!
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Eric
 

The best surge protectors will use MOVs and TVS Diodes. The diodes react very quickly but cannot handle large amounts of power. The MOVs can handle the power but are slower.

A well designed MOV unit can react within one microsecond and this is sufficient for AC line protection. The DCC side would work best with something faster as solid state electronics are very intolerant of over voltage situations.

Ken Harstine
413-250-8298
 

I mentioned that I use APC surge protectors for our PC's. So how will they work for MR and DCC? Anyone know for sure?
i.e. Do APC's have "these MOV and TVS diodes"???????????????????????????????????????? Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
 

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I don¡¯t think a surge protector would have any major effect on DCC Command stations because they are protecting just the power supply itself not specifically the Command Station.?

Kurt


On Sep 19, 2024, at 11:37?AM, PennsyNut <fan4pennsy@...> wrote:

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I mentioned that I use APC surge protectors for our PC's. So how will they work for MR and DCC? Anyone know for sure?
i.e. Do APC's have "these MOV and TVS diodes"???????????????????????????????????????? Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
 

Hello everyone!
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I cannot answer Morgan's question. This is beyond my knowledge. I only know about Tripp Lite from my research. APC products appear to be rare in Canada.
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Personally, I opted for Tripp Lite because of the many models available through Amazon. The information is very detailed.
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However, for Kurt, when we know the possible causes in a home and the path of the impact of a power surge, it is obvious that the Surge Protector is an essential safety to protect the Command Station/Booster. Not for power surges coming from the layout, but from inside your house.
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This is up to you, but it is additional security for your DCC system.
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If NCE recommends it, it¡¯s because it¡¯s important!
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I highly recommend checking out the Eaton website. There is a lot of information in the Surge Protector section.?
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Once you read, you will understand the reasoning for installing this equipment.?
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Happy reading!
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Eric
 

Thanks Eric.
I find it extremely interesting and important.
If NCE recommends one. Why don't Digitrax or others?
And this is the first I've heard of any need of a super-upgraded surge protector being needed or useful for DCC.
I do use simple surge protectors for some separate items. Our TV is plugged into one. But those are for shorts or electrical surges/spikes in 120v when they go up rapidly. ? Isn't this correct?
So, yes, any 120v surge protector can work with a TV. Or a PC.
But the APC for my PC had been a great investment. Many a time we've had outages/called brown outs? And that APC shut down my PC and saved every bit of data on it. That's why I bought a second one for my wife's PC.
So, now that we are discussing such a need for our DCC layouts/or even DC. We need to know what is best.
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.
 

Hello again Morgan!

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I'm happy to share with you!

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I don't know why other DCC manufacturers don't indicate this very relevant information!? The cost? The fear of manufacturers that potential customers will think that their products are at risk, unreliable?!

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Yet it¡¯s just common sense!

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Is it necessary to wear a seat belt to use your car? No ! BUT, it is your life that is at stake...

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It¡¯s the same thing with the Surge Protector and a DCC system. It doesn't matter the brand.

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The capacity of Surge Protectors is directly linked to the devices to be protected. Joule is the unit of measurement to determine the correct format. According to the EATON website, there are three main groups. Less than 1000 Joules, between 1000 and 2000 Joules, and more than 3000 Joules. These groups depend on the size of the equipment to be protected. It is not recommended to purchase a Surge of less than 660 Joules.

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To protect a PC, you must provide at least 1000 Joules. More is better...But how much ? I don't know. The price?! Too much is like not enough...

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For DCC, I'm too new to help you choose the right format. Given that these devices do not consume very much energy, I purchased a Tripp Lite Surge Protector (powerbar) of 1340 Joules, model TLM626. Because I use it to repair and maintain locomotives, and to program and install ESU decoders. These products are sensitive to Transient Voltages.

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Did you know that simply running a locomotive generates Voltage peaks? Just dropping a locomotive on the network generates Voltage peaks. A reverse loop also generates tension peaks. In short, the causes of Transient Voltage are multiple.
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Eric
 

I forgot¡­

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The indicator lights indicating replacement are more than important, they are essential! Without this feature, it is impossible to know when the Surge will need to be replaced...

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The Surge Protector is equipment like any other. Which means that its lifespan depends on use. The longer the Surge does its job, the less its lifespan.

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Thank you for the scoop Allan Gartner
 

When my first APC stopped working - and yes, there was a light to indicate that. All I needed was a new battery.
The APC cost ? $50. And the "APC approved" battery cost $30. But on Amazon, a replacement was $20. And that battery is still in the protector - now over 6 yrs.
So, like I mentioned, bought a second one for my wife's PC and that one cost $50. But no battery replacement yet. So both are now working over 6 yrs.
I looked up online and found it's listed as 720 joules. It has 4 outlets surge protector only and 4 more outlets battery back up.
So, IMHO, it's worth buying another for the MR.
However, online - my particular model has been discontinued. And the replacement is not battery replaceable. And Amazon don't show it, just the batteries. So, a new one will probably cost more. Another brand?
Morgan Bilbo, DCC since 8/18. Model PRR 1952.

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