Re: accessory decoders to drive relays
Well, OK. Pick any signal diode - get 2. 50 V or greater, 100ma or greater. Its just not critical. 1N400x, 1N914, 1N4148, whatever you can find in your junk-box or at Radio Shack.
The cathode end of each diode is marked with a band. the other end is the anode.
Connect them cathode to cathode and connect those to one side of the relay coil. (this will be the + end).
Connect the anode of the first diode (the catch diode) to the other side of the relay coil and to the sw machine driver (this will be the - end).
Connect the anode of the second diode to the other output terminal of the sw machine driver.
The relay should pick up when the sw machine driver is set for one direction and not pick up when set for the other direction. You can test it w/ a 9V battery.
And Yes...Find a sensitive relay that activates with a minimum of coil ma. Look for one with more than 400 ohms of resistance (<30 ma) if possible. The Omron G5A-234-P-DC12 w/ 720 ohm coil DPDT will work but has only a 1 amp contact rating. See also Omron G6B-2214P-US-DC12, DPST, 5 amps, 480 ohm (25ma) coil, ~$5 in the DigiKey catalog.
DonV
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-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of John Coker
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 2:01 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: accessory decoders to drive relays
After looking again at the output capability of the various stationary
decoders, 160mA seems high. I found this "low signal" relay from
Mouser which seems more appropriate:
The Omron G5A-234P-DC12 only draws 16.7mA at 12VDC. (They have an
even lower signal one that draws 12.5mA, the "high sensitivity" version.)
These relays should be able to be driven by any stationary decoder,
including the popular NCE Switch-It.
Now, if someone can suggest appropriate diodes to be used with this
relay, I'll be set.
John
Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: accessory decoders to drive relays
After looking again at the output capability of the various stationary
decoders, 160mA seems high. I found this "low signal" relay from
Mouser which seems more appropriate:
The Omron G5A-234P-DC12 only draws 16.7mA at 12VDC. (They have an
even lower signal one that draws 12.5mA, the "high sensitivity" version.)
These relays should be able to be driven by any stationary decoder,
including the popular NCE Switch-It.
Now, if someone can suggest appropriate diodes to be used with this
relay, I'll be set.
John
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Re: accessory decoders to drive relays
--- In WiringForDCC@..., "wirefordcc" <wire4dcc_admin@c...> wrote: I wanted to add to Don's advice about using accessory decoders for
stall type motors. That is true. However, you can't use just any
relay. Thanks for the info. I just picked up a simple PCB mount relay from Radio Shack (part #275- 249A) which seems to be perfect. It has a 12V 60mA coil and a 5A contact rating. John
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Re: accessory decoders to drive relays
--- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@m...> wrote: Yes. Simply use an accessory decoder designed to handle a Tortoise stall type switch motor. Thes are designed to provide a continuous rather than a pulse output. You can attach the relay to one of the 'Tortoise' outputs, without an actual tortoise motor being present. Put a diode in series with a 12Vdc relay coil so that it operates in only one 'direction' of output power. be sure to also use a 'catch' diode across the relay coil. Thanks for the info. Reading between the lines in your reply, it sounds like the Tortoise expects continuous DC input, with the polarity varying to control the switch position. I assume that means that the outputs for these type of switch machines are always at 12VDC and ground, with alternate polarites when the switch is thrown and clear. Is that correct? Can you please elaborate on the function of the "catch" diode and the appropriate types of diodes to use for an electronics neophyte? John
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Re: accessory decoders to drive relays
I wanted to add to Don's advice about using accessory decoders for
stall type motors. That is true. However, you can't use just any
relay. Check the maximum current the decoder can put out for a stall
type motor. Then make sure you relay does not require more than that.
If there is a relay you want to use, you may have to shop around for a
stall type motor accessory decoder that can put out as much current as
you need. I know that some of the accessory decoders can only put out
40mA or less. Some relays require about 160mA.
There is also a type of relay called a "high sensitivity relay."
These relays are specially designed to work with computer type
equipment and draw much less than the typical relay. They cost a
little more than the typical relay, but not too much.
Be careful. I'm talking about the coil sensitivity rating of the
relay NOT the current carrying capability of the relay CONTACTS. Your
coil sensitivity rating should be about 160mA or less (especially for
a high sensitivity relay) whereas the CONTACT rating should be about
5A.
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Re: accessory decoders to drive relays
Yes. Simply use an accessory decoder designed to handle a Tortoise stall type switch motor. Thes are designed to provide a continuous rather than a pulse output. You can attach the relay to one of the 'Tortoise' outputs, without an actual tortoise motor being present. Put a diode in series with a 12Vdc relay coil so that it operates in only one 'direction' of output power. be sure to also use a 'catch' diode across the relay coil.
DonV
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-----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@...
[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of John Coker
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 2:21 PM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: [WiringForDCC] accessory decoders to drive relays
Hello folks! I am a new member of this group (and newly entering
model railroading and working my way through all the new stuff
available through DCC).
I was browsing the reviews of accessory decoders on Tony's Train
Exchange and they all seem to be intended for short-term loads. I.e.,
they expect to be off except for brief periods when they are on to
operate a switch machine. Does anyone know if any can be used in to
drive a relay coil to implement an electronic toggle switch? For this
use, I would like need them to continuously power the relay when
"thrown", not just for a short period of time.
FYI, I want to drive a DPDT relay to switch one stub on my layout to
the programming outputs for mobile decoder programming. Since
everything else is to be computer controlled, I would like to use an
accessory decoder and control this state from the computer as well.
(Ideally this would be interlocked with the switch leading to this
stub so that the switch could not be thrown for the stub while in
programming mode.)
John
Yahoo! Groups Links
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accessory decoders to drive relays
Hello folks! I am a new member of this group (and newly entering
model railroading and working my way through all the new stuff
available through DCC).
I was browsing the reviews of accessory decoders on Tony's Train
Exchange and they all seem to be intended for short-term loads. I.e.,
they expect to be off except for brief periods when they are on to
operate a switch machine. Does anyone know if any can be used in to
drive a relay coil to implement an electronic toggle switch? For this
use, I would like need them to continuously power the relay when
"thrown", not just for a short period of time.
FYI, I want to drive a DPDT relay to switch one stub on my layout to
the programming outputs for mobile decoder programming. Since
everything else is to be computer controlled, I would like to use an
accessory decoder and control this state from the computer as well.
(Ideally this would be interlocked with the switch leading to this
stub so that the switch could not be thrown for the stub while in
programming mode.)
John
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Hello
I have a Digitrax dz123 wired to a can motor installed on
a MDC Shay. When I apply throttle the is a time delay before the
engine begins to move. I can see that it is going from 0volts to
what ever speed it takes to finally get moving. My question is,
can the dead space be programed out? Is there a reason for this
behavior? Thanks for any help. Stephen
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There are no standard colors for wiring your trackwork. I suggest
black and white only because this is common household wire that is
inexpensive and available at your favorite home improvement store.
You might want to check my website where I talk a little about wire
color. The discussion on wire color begins at:
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I am trying to locate the wire colour codes for wiring DCC trackwork.
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Re: PECO c55 turnouts are *not* easily modified to work with DCC!
All:
Thanks to Kay Sievert for providing photos of the code 55 Peco
Electrofrog turnouts and bringing the problem to my attention. I have
updated the website to show that the code 55 Electrofrogs are
different than the larger size Electrofrogs. Peco appears to have
quite a variation in their turnouts. Short of me buying one of every
turnout they make, I have to rely on you to bring differences to my
attention. If you have a Peco turnout that does not fit with what I
have shown in the website, please let me know. We will take the
conversation off the forum and update the page. Corrections will then
be announced here on the forum.
Allan
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PECO c55 turnouts are *not* easily modified to work with DCC!
Ok, here's a picture of a Peco c55 #4 turnout:
As you can see, it does not have jumpers that can be cut to insulate
and power route the frog. Although I like Allan Gartner's DDC prep
site, he referred to Peco 55 as being easily modified by cutting
jumpers, which is clearly not the case.
Since I'm not planning on ripping this or any future Peco TO's apart
to make them DCC friendly, I'm stuck.
Lord help me..
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Decoder for the Bachmann Gas Mechanical Loco
Confused?
I purchased the Bachmann On30 0-4-0 Side Rod Gas Mechanical Loco. THe
unit is DCC ready the plug on the PC board has 8 female plugs in a
row.
All the male sockets I have found (and used in other units) have the
8 male plugs but in two rows of 4 and 4.
I contacted techsupport at digitrax and sent the PC board diagram and
they recommended DH163PS or DZ143PS. But looking on the digitax web
page and the pictures showed the 4 on 4 plug.
Or do they expect you to solder the wires to the feamle plugs on the
PC board. Has anyone connected on of these units before?
Confussed any suggestions.
Thanks for any help
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Re: Automatic Train Control
Mike, I'm not sure what you are suggesting. DCC is a form of AC. No simple hardware solution exists for auto reversing a DCC locomotive. I had a DC locomotive running around the top of my office cubical. I used a timer and a relay to reverse the polarity of the track to shuttle the locomotive back and forth. I used diodes at the ends of the track that stopped the DC locomotive until the timer reversed the polarity through the relay. Allan --- In WiringForDCC@..., "hinman_michael" <hinman_michael@y...> wrote: --- In WiringForDCC@..., "Jan Frelin" <jan.frelin@l...> wrote:
Friends,
My club has a requirement for a tram that just goes back and forth between it's terminal track and staging/storage. Jan,
I have an Idea to share, but first I would like to stress that I
am an amateur and no portion of what follows has been tested. The only hardware involved is an auto-reverser. Basically you create two
insulated track sections connected to your existing track. The
middle section is connected to the autoreverse and is the route
traveled by your tram. The outer portions( an end peice and the
connection to your layout) are connected to your DCC but wired for
opposite polarity. A DC engine placed in the middle section will
travel to each insulated joint where it will trigger the AR. A DC
engine will only do this facing one direction so you may have to
change polarity of the whole she-bang if you want the loco facing a particular way. When the tram reverses it will be abrupt and the
track will be @12vdc all the time so it will basically be running
full throttle. This whole set up would theoretically work with a DCC loco, then you would have speed control, but... I have no idea how
decoders react to having their polarity abruptly changed.
Hopefully I have clearly conveyed the concept. I'd like to hear
form the voice of experience on this as I plan to incorporate it
into my layout in the next few months.
good luck,
mike
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Re: DIGITRAX TRANSPONDING/DETECTION
Mike,
Since my response to your offer isn't a forum topic, I took this off-line.
I've always wanted transponding, but now that it is here, it is cost prohibitive for me. It's not that I think Digitrax's prices are unreasonable. It's just that I need so many transponders and so many transponder detectors, that it adds up to a pile of money.
Ordinarily, I would jump at your offer. However, in 3 weeks I start another year of law school. I'd be fooling both of us if I thought I'd have the time to get to it before Christmas. And maybe not even then.
Digitrax's tech support may not be ideal, but it is better than most. At least you aren't talking to someone in India! Ask to talk to AJ if you have to. You may not be able to talk to him right then and there, but he'll call you back in a few days - at least he used to. I haven't needed to talk to him in a few years. If you leave a message for AJ, make sure you say that you are not getting adequate help from his tech support. He used to care that his tech support was good. So I think a statement like that would get his attention.
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-------------- Original message -------------- --- In WiringForDCC@..., "wire4dcc"
wrote:
Mike,
Sorry, it doesn't appear that any of us have tried transponding. I
think transponding is neat, but it still isn't in my budget.
Try giving Digitrax a call.
Allan Allan,
It seems that more people use the detection features of the BDL162
rather than combined with transponding and that works fine.
Even Loy Spurlock passed and said to call Digitrax.
It seems that there is only one guy there that knows transponding
and he's always on the phone however I did talk to one of the tech
minions who had no answers to my specific questions and only said to
check my wiring.
Needless to say, that I'm very disillusioned with Digitrax's tech
responses. Example: My DCS100 gives off 9 beeps when I power up.
That many beeps isn't in their beep list so I inquired via email;
Response by nameless person: It's just waking up grumpy.
So far, most of their stuff works but if it doesn't, a person is
just up the creek.
Since transponding isn't in your budget, wanna try your hand at it?
I'll send the whole kit and caboodle to you and see if you can make
it work.
Is your address on your website?
It'll be on its way tomorow via Fedex.
Mike
Mike
Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: DIGITRAX TRANSPONDING/DETECTION
--- In WiringForDCC@..., "wire4dcc" <antijunk@c...> wrote: Mike,
Sorry, it doesn't appear that any of us have tried transponding. I think transponding is neat, but it still isn't in my budget.
Try giving Digitrax a call.
Allan Allan, It seems that more people use the detection features of the BDL162 rather than combined with transponding and that works fine. Even Loy Spurlock passed and said to call Digitrax. It seems that there is only one guy there that knows transponding and he's always on the phone however I did talk to one of the tech minions who had no answers to my specific questions and only said to check my wiring. Needless to say, that I'm very disillusioned with Digitrax's tech responses. Example: My DCS100 gives off 9 beeps when I power up. That many beeps isn't in their beep list so I inquired via email; Response by nameless person: It's just waking up grumpy. So far, most of their stuff works but if it doesn't, a person is just up the creek. Since transponding isn't in your budget, wanna try your hand at it? I'll send the whole kit and caboodle to you and see if you can make it work. Is your address on your website? It'll be on its way tomorow via Fedex. Mike Mike
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Re: DIGITRAX TRANSPONDING/DETECTION
Mike,
Sorry, it doesn't appear that any of us have tried transponding. I
think transponding is neat, but it still isn't in my budget.
Try giving Digitrax a call.
Allan
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peco electrofrog crossing
I recently purchased a psrev to go along with my digitrax zephyr and
I have aquestion.I will have a peco electrofrog crossing on my simple
layout. how do I connect my psrev when their is 4 wires coming from
the electrofrog crossing and only 2 from the psrev. Refer to model
railroader April 2005 page 92 Thank for your help. Dale
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Has anyone on this list had experience using the Lenz interface and
wireless phones for throttles?
Jared Harper
Athens, GA
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Re: DCC installs in brass steam?
I have done several brass steam engines. Either they were manufactured with can motors or had been retrofitted with can motors. In each of them it was only necessary to unsoldered a wire from the frame to isolate the motor. One motor conversion I did myself and I don't remember how the motor was connected to the frame for sure but I think it was a fairly simple change to isolate the connection. I guess with open frame motors you have to examine each one individually. Actually converting to a can motor was not to hard and the improvement in operation was worth the cost and effort. Dale. --- In WiringForDCC@..., "brian1961go" <brian1961go@y...> wrote: I have learned that is fairly difficult and/or expensive to install
decoders into brass due to isolating the frame. Does anyone have any suggestions?
My one thought is to have stock car with several different sound
decoders based on engine type and always have it hooked to the tender but how do I wire it with just one speaker?
TIA, Brian
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John Coker
Dale Gloer