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Re: Terminating bus ends
Ken
Thanks for the clarification, Brian. Ken
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--- In WiringForDCC@..., brianw1138@c... wrote:
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Re: Terminating bus ends
Ken
Don, please don't take offense as I'm really not trying to be flip
here or play on semantics, but if the wording had indeed said one per bus, I wouldn't have asked the question I did. But the wording says "Yes, you will need two of these circuits for each bus - one at each end." To me, the key words are "two", "each" and "each" & that means if I have one bus, it is a bus with two ends and the ends are dangling and booster, and the wording states emphatically that each bus requires two, not one. So to me, that means put one at the dangling end and another at the booster end just like the wording said. And since, with my limited DCC and electronic knowledge, it just didn't sound right, it is why I posed my question. But, I do thank you for the clarification. I really do appreciate your taking the time to explain to a novice like myself. Ken --- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@m...> wrote: hose, how many nozzles would you need? :-) each DCC bus run at the end opposite from the booster." Do not put a terminator at the booster. If you wire your layout with the booster near the center and multiple DCC buses fanning out like a star, put an R/C terminator at the far end of each bus. it is non-polarized. Any 50V or higher mylar, ceramic, polycarbonate, polystyrene or paper film type will all work OK. However, do NOT use an electrolytic or tantalum type as they are not rated for this type of duty and are very likely to be polarized. For HO scale a 0.1 MFD capacitance value of just about any (+/-1, 2, 5, 10, or 20%) tolerance will work. And yes, do use a 100-150 ohm, 1 watt rated resistor. A 1/2 watt resistor will work, but it will get hot...which reduces the lifetime.
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Re: Reversing section advice
Vollrath, Don
Oops.
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My option 3 requires 2 A-R units and 1 relay. DonV -----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Vollrath, Don Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 11:06 AM To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: RE: [WiringForDCC] Reversing section advice Hello Blair. I see 3 Options: 1. Use a standard A-R unit at loop L as you propose. Use Loy's Toys ARSC at section Y. This unit requires extra rail gaps but can handle trains that are longer than the reversing track section, as long as Y is longer than the powered loco consist. It does work, even with a long train of lighted passenger cars, but the location of rail gaps and their width are important, particularly on curves. I can send you more data if you are interested. I also have an improved version that you can build yourself for a lot less $$. Send me a private e-mail. [need 1 A-R unit, 1 Loy's Toys ARSC or equal] 2. Use a conventional A-R unit for track Y, but extend the effective length out to SW1, SW2 and X as you propose by use of a relay sensitive to throwbar position of SW1, only when it is set for track Y. SW1, SW2 & the track leading to X should always be at the same rail polarity as you have indicated. However, Loop L still exists, and it should be possible to pass a train from either side of L to Y through SW2 & SW1. But L itself is a reversing loop and it is not wise to connect two A-R controlled track sections end to end... so control the polarity of track L with yet another relay operated from the exit throwbar position of SW2, from the polarity of the SW2 track, which may be powered from the A-R unit of Y if SW1 is set that way. Photo sensors near SW2 can be used to automatically flip SW2 from either direction, but thats a whole 'nother matter. [1 A-R unit, 2 relays] 3. Use a standard A-R unit at track section Y and extend the effective length of isolated A-R track out into track A via a relay controlled by the throwbar at switch. The isolated extension into A must be long enough to hold an entire train. Leave tracks of SW1 & SW1 at the fixed polarity of B and B'. Use a 2nd standard A-R unit for track L. This can work, but you must also consider available track length of A beyond what is shown in your sketch. If it is long enough to avoid yet another complication of train length or passing restrictions this option may be easy to implement. [1 a-R unit, 1 relay] With options 2 & 3, you must use DPDT relays (or toggle switches) to control rail polarity. DPDT contacts on most switch machines are break before make and can interrupt rail power on moving locos for too long of a time as throwbars change positions. Are my explanations clear enough? DonV Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Re: Reversing section advice
Vollrath, Don
Hello Blair. I see 3 Options:
1. Use a standard A-R unit at loop L as you propose. Use Loy's Toys ARSC at section Y. This unit requires extra rail gaps but can handle trains that are longer than the reversing track section, as long as Y is longer than the powered loco consist. It does work, even with a long train of lighted passenger cars, but the location of rail gaps and their width are important, particularly on curves. I can send you more data if you are interested. I also have an improved version that you can build yourself for a lot less $$. Send me a private e-mail. [need 1 A-R unit, 1 Loy's Toys ARSC or equal] 2. Use a conventional A-R unit for track Y, but extend the effective length out to SW1, SW2 and X as you propose by use of a relay sensitive to throwbar position of SW1, only when it is set for track Y. SW1, SW2 & the track leading to X should always be at the same rail polarity as you have indicated. However, Loop L still exists, and it should be possible to pass a train from either side of L to Y through SW2 & SW1. But L itself is a reversing loop and it is not wise to connect two A-R controlled track sections end to end... so control the polarity of track L with yet another relay operated from the exit throwbar position of SW2, from the polarity of the SW2 track, which may be powered from the A-R unit of Y if SW1 is set that way. Photo sensors near SW2 can be used to automatically flip SW2 from either direction, but thats a whole 'nother matter. [1 A-R unit, 2 relays] 3. Use a standard A-R unit at track section Y and extend the effective length of isolated A-R track out into track A via a relay controlled by the throwbar at switch. The isolated extension into A must be long enough to hold an entire train. Leave tracks of SW1 & SW1 at the fixed polarity of B and B'. Use a 2nd standard A-R unit for track L. This can work, but you must also consider available track length of A beyond what is shown in your sketch. If it is long enough to avoid yet another complication of train length or passing restrictions this option may be easy to implement. [1 a-R unit, 1 relay] With options 2 & 3, you must use DPDT relays (or toggle switches) to control rail polarity. DPDT contacts on most switch machines are break before make and can interrupt rail power on moving locos for too long of a time as throwbars change positions. Are my explanations clear enough? DonV |
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Reversing section advice
Hi folks
I've posted a sketch for a tricky bit of trackwork I have (it's in the files section, called Reversing Sketch.pdf). Here's the accompanying text, and questions. Electrically, A, A', and A" are the same bus. B and B' could be the same bus (and will be until Santa delivers a booster), or originate on a separate one, but neither are expected to be reversing sections. My original thinking was to put L, the reversing loop, on a PM42 reversing section, and put the short segment at Y on another PM42 reversing section (Y and L could actually be reversed by aux contacts on SW1 and SW2, but I digress). The loop is long enough to hold my longest train (26'), but the segment at Y is not (only long enough for a four-diesel consist). This would not be a problem as I understand it, unless I were to run trains with power requirements that are train-long, like lighted passenger consists. Unfortunately, one of the signature trains expected to traverse from A to A', and/or to traverse the loop, is the circa 1985 CP Canadian; two diesels and a passenger car just won't do. Sigh. So back to the wiring plan. My proposed solution for the problem is to make Y extend all the way to X, including both 3-way switches. Alternatively, I could extend Y out through A along the main line beyond A. Either solution means the reversing section Y will see a lot of action, whereas I could see the original X not being used very often. Any other alternatives I'm missing? Thanks in advance. Blair Smith |
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Re: Terminating bus ends
Vollrath, Don
If someone tells you to put a nozzle at the end of your garden hose, how many nozzles would you need? :-)
Technically the words should read "Connect an R/C terminator to each DCC bus run at the end opposite from the booster." Do not put a terminator at the booster. If you wire your layout with the booster near the center and multiple DCC buses fanning out like a star, put an R/C terminator at the far end of each bus. The particular type of capacitor doesn't matter much, as long as it is non-polarized. Any 50V or higher mylar, ceramic, polycarbonate, polystyrene or paper film type will all work OK. However, do NOT use an electrolytic or tantalum type as they are not rated for this type of duty and are very likely to be polarized. For HO scale a 0.1 MFD capacitance value of just about any (+/-1, 2, 5, 10, or 20%) tolerance will work. And yes, do use a 100-150 ohm, 1 watt rated resistor. A 1/2 watt resistor will work, but it will get hot...which reduces the lifetime. DonV |
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Re: Terminating bus ends
Ken,
I can address some of the terminology questions. Some caps are polarized, they have a plus side and a minus side, these are usually marked in VDC (electrolytic and tantalums come to mind). Other caps aren't polarizied therefore they just get a working volts marking. Caps are harder to make than are resistors, that's why the tolerance range is so wacky. If the cap says 10uf, believe it, unless you pulled the cap from another circuit it's probably OK, and still in tolerance. If your circuit doesn't work, meter it, and see if it's in tolerance. In general, if you have to make an adjustment, do it with the resistor, they are made in lots more sizes, just for this reason. Hope this helps, and that they haven't changed the laws of Physics since I was in college! |
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Re: Accessory Decoder
A accessory decoder usally runs things like signal lights, switches and such.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Lau To: WiringForDCC@... Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 11:55 AM Subject: [WiringForDCC] Accessory Decoder What is the difference between a loco decoder and an accessory decoder? Is an accessory decoder fixed onto the loco? Aaron SPONSORED LINKS Lionel model train European model trains Model railroads Ho scale model train Ho model trains Model train n scale ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WiringForDCC" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WiringForDCC-unsubscribe@... c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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Terminating bus ends
Ken
What should be a no brainer for me, this is frustrating. Maybe I'm
really just getting too old for this! The really helpful Wiring For DCC site says: Solution for unterminated bus ends: "The name of this problem suggests the solution - terminate your bus ends. This is simple and inexpensive to do. Just put this "RC load" at each end of your long buses. Yes, you will need two of these circuits for each bus - one at each end." I don't understand "you will need two of these circuits for each bus - one at each end." Why two per bus and why one at each end? I have a dangling end and can see that one, but the other end is to the booster. So I need to put one across the booster output too? And if so, then if I have 2 blocks with dangling ends, do I need 3 -- 2 ends plus the booster? Or does the booster end need different values? Awhile back I asked about the type of cap to use and was told any kind would work. The site also says they should be 50WVDC. Jameco has Ceramic Disc Caps (+-20%) listed as 50V. Doesn't say AC or DC. Are these OK? Their mylars also don't specify AC or DC. Also, the components are listed with a range up to 50% greater. Is it better to go to the low end or high end of the range? And finally, I seem to recall someone, somewhere saying the 1/2 watt resistors in HO were getting very hot. If that is true, isn't this wasting power? Should I be using 1 watters? Sorry for the many probably very easy questions, but this is my first DCC layout and I want to do it right the first time, w/o smoke or fire if possible. Thank you for your help. Ken |
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Re: Accessory Decoder
JOHN
Hi
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The accessory decoder will give an output voltage to power a peco, or similar, points (turnouts) or signal motor. In other words it controls the points and signals according to the commands it gets. The loco decoder is situated in the loco itself and the accessory decoder is placed under or beside the baseboard feeding the points motors...........john -----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Aaron Lau Sent: 15 November 2005 13:03 To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Accessory Decoder Thanks for your reply John. Could you explain in greater details what does points and signal means. So is the accessory decoder AND the loco decoder fixed onto the loco? Or is it either one of them? --- In WiringForDCC@..., "JOHN" <jcebay@n...> wrote: > > HI > A loco decoder is a small thumbnail size PCB that fits inside and > controls your locomotive. An accessory decoder controls items such as points > and signals....hope that helps............john > -----Original Message----- > From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On > Behalf Of Aaron Lau > Sent: 14 November 2005 17:55 > To: WiringForDCC@... > Subject: [WiringForDCC] Accessory Decoder > > > What is the difference between a loco decoder and an accessory > decoder? Is an accessory decoder fixed onto the loco? > > Aaron > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS Lionel model train European model trains Model railroads > Ho scale model train Ho model trains Model train n scale > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > -- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > a.. Visit your group "WiringForDCC" on the web. > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > WiringForDCC-unsubscribe@... > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > -- > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WiringForDCC" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WiringForDCC-unsubscribe@... c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- |
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Re: Accessory Decoder
Aaron,
There are generaly two classes of decoder, Fixed and mobile; of mobile decoders there are motor control and function decoders. Motor control decoders connect to the locomotive's motor and make it go, they usually have functions control as well to turn on head ight reverse lights, ditch lights, fire box light, etc. Function only decoders are just like motor decoders but the omit the motor control circuitry and just provide the function outputs. Accessory decoders usually mount under the layout and are used to control switch machines (points are the movable rails in a turnout (switch)) or signal lights, but they can be used to urn on or off any electrical gizmo you can think of; street lights, traffic lights in town, building lights, anything! In general, when you hear someone say "Decoder" they means a mobile motor control decoder. |
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Re: Club buzzer for DCC short circuit testing
The capacitor is to smooth the rectified (by the bridge rectifier)
DCC signal so the realy doesn't make a high pitched buzzing sound. Dale. --- In WiringForDCC@..., "blind_pyro1" <blind_pyro@i...> wrote: how everything else in the circuit works but I'm not sure what isbeing accomplished with the capacitor. Does the capacitor delay thebuzzer circuit from becoming active for a small length of time? |
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Re: Accessory Decoder
Aaron Lau
Thanks for your reply John.
Could you explain in greater details what does points and signal means. So is the accessory decoder AND the loco decoder fixed onto the loco? Or is it either one of them? --- In WiringForDCC@..., "JOHN" <jcebay@n...> wrote: and controls your locomotive. An accessory decoder controls items suchas points and signals....hope that helps............john[mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Aaron Laurailroads Ho scale model train Ho model trains Model train n scale--------- --of Service.--------- -- |
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Club buzzer for DCC short circuit testing
blind_pyro1
My question concerns the following page:
Under the blue title section "Testing," the diagram of a "Club Buzzer", why is the capacitor needed in the circuit. I can see how everything else in the circuit works but I'm not sure what is being accomplished with the capacitor. Does the capacitor delay the buzzer circuit from becoming active for a small length of time? Thanks, Andy |
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Re: Accessory Decoder
JOHN
HI
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A loco decoder is a small thumbnail size PCB that fits inside and controls your locomotive. An accessory decoder controls items such as points and signals....hope that helps............john -----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Aaron Lau Sent: 14 November 2005 17:55 To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: [WiringForDCC] Accessory Decoder What is the difference between a loco decoder and an accessory decoder? Is an accessory decoder fixed onto the loco? Aaron SPONSORED LINKS Lionel model train European model trains Model railroads Ho scale model train Ho model trains Model train n scale ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WiringForDCC" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WiringForDCC-unsubscribe@... c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- |
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Re: Balloon track control
asterrymc
Thanks Don.
By CDU I meant a capacitor discharge unit which would supply a pulse of current to a Peco twin coil switch machine. I'm new to electronics , so I am unsure how to proceed with your circuit. I don't want to burn out the coils in the switch motor and am unsure whether or not the relay would survive the pulse of current from the CDU. What do you suggest? TerryM --- In WiringForDCC@..., "Vollrath, Don" <dvollrath@m...> wrote: motor. But contacts from the relay shown can be connected to any otherapparatus that can be operated by electrical connection to throw the points. However, be aware that a twin coil type switch machine may not like power being applied continuously. Many other circuits exist that could apply a pulse of current to a switch machine coil. If someone can help fill in more details about the Peco switch machine I'm willing to suggest a few circuits. DonV |
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Re: Balloon track control
Vollrath, Don
I'm not familiar with what you are calling a 'CDU' or a Peco point motor.
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But contacts from the relay shown can be connected to any other apparatus that can be operated by electrical connection to throw the points. However, be aware that a twin coil type switch machine may not like power being applied continuously. Many other circuits exist that could apply a pulse of current to a switch machine coil. If someone can help fill in more details about the Peco switch machine I'm willing to suggest a few circuits. DonV -----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of asterrymc Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 6:23 AM To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: [WiringForDCC] Re: Balloon track control The circuit by Don Vollrath looks easy to use and ideal for continuous running. How would you modify the circuit to use a CDU to control a Peco point motor? |
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Re: Separating frequency from the railway tracks
Vollrath, Don
Is there a standard voltage, current and frequency from the control
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station? Yes...thats what DCC standards are all about. See . DonV -----Original Message-----
From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@...]On Behalf Of Aaron Lau Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 11:36 AM To: WiringForDCC@... Subject: [WiringForDCC] Separating frequency from the railway tracks I am currently doing some research on DCC and would be starting to build a DCC receiver according to NMRA stardards in due time. At the very moment, I would like to extract the signal waveforms from the tracks. Any ideas how I should go about doing that. Is there a standard voltage, current and frequency from the control station? Aaron |
Dale Gloer
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