java developer willing to lend a hand

thestattrader

about me: I'm a professional java developer with over 9 years of 
total software development, 5 years exclusively in java and related 
technologies. This includes banking systems, dept of defense, and 
more - very large real world complex systems. 

I used to daytrade during my down time (few days to few months), but 
now I mostly trade options for time periods ranging from 1-3 weeks. 
I've written my own analysis software, etc. After I put on a trade, 
my primary concern is follow-up strategy when a trade goes wrong. I 
wrote software to do this as well, as there was a lot of different 
variables that went into it. I just now discovered that TWS gives a 
java api, so I'm rebuilding my system and hooking it up to IB. 
Unfortunately, i hear options trigger TWS pop-ups so i can't have a 
true program trading platform in place :(

if anyone wishes to come to the dark side (java), I'd be happy to 
help them out :)

Jason

dtkamp

#13

"i hear options trigger TWS pop-ups so i can't have a 
true program trading platform in place :("

Hi Jason. You may know this, but for others reading the above, it's 
the option exchanges that don't allow automated option trading - IB 
is just following their rules.

With respect to Java, I bet you actually get a lot of us avoiding it 
just because of the limitations we see in the Java-based TWS. In 
other words, you can get an immediate edge over TWS just by not using 
Java (at the cost of cross-platform potential).

qnolte

#14

The option confirmation requirement is a real problem for me also.  I 
didn't realize that the real problem is the option exchanges rules.  
Can anyone come up with a screen scrapper that could see the popup 
confirmations and automatically response to them?  


--- In twsapi@y..., "dtkamp" <dkamp@e...> wrote:
"i hear options trigger TWS pop-ups so i can't have a 
true program trading platform in place :("

Hi Jason. You may know this, but for others reading the above, it's 
the option exchanges that don't allow automated option trading - IB 
is just following their rules.

With respect to Java, I bet you actually get a lot of us avoiding it 
just because of the limitations we see in the Java-based TWS. In 
other words, you can get an immediate edge over TWS just by not using 
Java (at the cost of cross-platform potential).

#15

--- In twsapi@y..., "dtkamp" <dkamp@e...> wrote:
With respect to Java, I bet you actually get a lot of us avoiding it 
just because of the limitations we see in the Java-based TWS. In 
other words, you can get an immediate edge over TWS just by not using 
Java (at the cost of cross-platform potential).Please comment on the Java limitations.  I've heard nothing of the
sort except for performance issues from people who don't know what
they are talking about.


Ken

dtkamp

#17

--- In twsapi@y..., "kgeis" <kgeis@y...> wrote:
--- In twsapi@y..., "dtkamp" <dkamp@e...> wrote:
Please comment on the Java limitations.  I've heard nothing of the
sort except for performance issues from people who don't know what
they are talking about.Hi Ken. Right, I would put performance issues at the bottom of the 
list of limitations. This is a huge topic to start a discussion 
about, but will outline a few points broadly. BTW, I don't have 
anything against Java or the notion of Java, having worked with it 
for a couple of years.

- Lots of bugs, which are very difficult to work around, often 
leading to use of platform-specific native code or tweaking and 
recompiling SUN's code that one shouldn't really be touching. (I 
think our list at one point had grown to something like several 
hundred Swing bugs that we had worked around or fixed, although they 
have addressed many of these in later versions of Swing.)

- Unless your apps are fairly simple (which they may well be), the 
Java UI classes suffer from their need to be cross-platform (i.e., 
they can't afford to take advantage of many platform-specific 
features, and hide access to some of the most basic stuff).

- Most of the cool Java stuff is finding its way into 
Microsoft's .NET. Microsoft (like it or not) devours everything in 
its path. If we're not going to break up this monster, then we can at 
least avoid getting stepped on it (kind of like trading amongst the 
investing giants).

So unless one is really, really serious about cross-platform 
development (Macs and Unix), I would personally be really, really 
hesitant to use Java for a trading app.

#18

You mentioned "limitations we see in the Java-based TWS."  Your
comments are about GUI programming in Java.  I'm looking for problems
with the TWS Java API.

Is this what you are trying to say?  "If you write a GUI trading
program in Java, it's going to suck in the same ways that TWS does." 
If that's it, I'm not concerned, as the Java interface I'm planning
does not have a Java GUI.

Show quoted text

--- In twsapi@y..., "dtkamp" <dkamp@e...> wrote:
--- In twsapi@y..., "kgeis" <kgeis@y...> wrote:
Please comment on the Java limitations.  I've heard nothing of the
sort except for performance issues from people who don't know what
they are talking about.Hi Ken. Right, I would put performance issues at the bottom of the 
list of limitations. This is a huge topic to start a discussion 
about, but will outline a few points broadly. BTW, I don't have 
anything against Java or the notion of Java, having worked with it 
for a couple of years.

- Lots of bugs, which are very difficult to work around, often 
leading to use of platform-specific native code or tweaking and 
recompiling SUN's code that one shouldn't really be touching. (I 
think our list at one point had grown to something like several 
hundred Swing bugs that we had worked around or fixed, although they 
have addressed many of these in later versions of Swing.)

- Unless your apps are fairly simple (which they may well be), the 
Java UI classes suffer from their need to be cross-platform (i.e., 
they can't afford to take advantage of many platform-specific 
features, and hide access to some of the most basic stuff).

- Most of the cool Java stuff is finding its way into 
Microsoft's .NET. Microsoft (like it or not) devours everything in 
its path. If we're not going to break up this monster, then we can at 
least avoid getting stepped on it (kind of like trading amongst the 
investing giants).

So unless one is really, really serious about cross-platform 
development (Macs and Unix), I would personally be really, really 
hesitant to use Java for a trading app.

dtkamp

#19

If that's it, I'm not concerned, as the Java interface I'm planning
does not have a Java GUI.
Sorry for misunderstanding. I'm not aware of any problems with IB's 
Java API, although I've asked them questions about whether the APIs 
are kept in synch, and whether they are paying preferential attention 
during their own development to one or the other of the APIs, but did 
not get an answer. It would be nice if someone could answer those 
questions, as well as questions such as whether they will be dropping 
APIs for which there is not sufficient interest. Could save some of 
us a lot of trouble in the long run.

simgenie

#22

I don't trade options but writing a separate (must be separate or in 
another thread because of blocking) program to send keystrokes 
(enter) or mouseclicks to a window at a predefined spot isn't that 
complex. I don't know what the options window looks like (I don't 
trade options) or if the "no" button defaults (rendering a simple 
enter keystroke unusable).

The basic concept is to figure out the unique qualities of the popup 
window you are searching for (if any) by using a program like 
Microsoft's SPY++. Then when the window you are looking for appears 
you either send a set of keystrokes to the window or a mouse click to 
the correct spot to kill the window. The program that does this 
should probably only have one function - to kill the dialog, and 
should just sit there looping, waiting for that dialog to pop up and 
then it zaps it. I do this for the ActiveX "Accept Incoming 
Connections" dialog so that my program can log into TWS without any 
intervention on my part.

--- In twsapi@y..., "qnolte" <q1@n...> wrote:
The option confirmation requirement is a real problem for me also.  I 
didn't realize that the real problem is the option exchanges rules.  
Can anyone come up with a screen scrapper that could see the popup 
confirmations and automatically response to them?  


--- In twsapi@y..., "dtkamp" <dkamp@e...> wrote:
"i hear options trigger TWS pop-ups so i can't have a 
true program trading platform in place :("

Hi Jason. You may know this, but for others reading the above, it's 
the option exchanges that don't allow automated option trading - IB 
is just following their rules.

With respect to Java, I bet you actually get a lot of us avoiding it 
just because of the limitations we see in the Java-based TWS. In 
other words, you can get an immediate edge over TWS just by not using 
Java (at the cost of cross-platform potential).

thestattrader

#28

True, Java GUI development used to require quite a bit of work-
arounds when SWING was new. But that was a few years ago. I'm not 
primarily a GUI guy - I mostly do "mission critical" server side 
programming, but when i do venture back into SWING work I haven't had 
many problems. True, it's cross-platform nature brings it's own 
headaches with it.
 
I personaly can't recall any TWS problems that were Java based, nor 
can I imagine any limitations it would introduce outside of 
integration to outside apps via the OS (granted, this may be a 
primary requirement to some). But any speed or graphics issues now-a-
days are generaly based on the developer's experience. I've done 
professional c++, vb, delphi, and cobol work - and I'm at a loss as 
to why one would think Java was not suitable platform... java's 
weakness is in advanced mathemtics, and even then it was used for the 
3-d graphics engine for EverQuest. And the major firms on wall street 
are big time java shops.

dtkamp

#32

Hi StatTrader. Your view here sounds quite reasonable for someone who 
is actively writing Java code. Having already stated a counterview, 
others are free to decide for themselves, and I'll resist getting any 
deeper into this complex issue unless/until it becomes something that 
needs resolving (such as in some sort of cooperative endeavor). 
Peace. (MS also appears to be planning on bringing some form of Java 
back to .NET, which will further confuse the discussion.)

--- In twsapi@y..., "thestattrader" <TheStatTrader@y...> wrote:
True, Java GUI development used to require quite a bit of work-
arounds when SWING was new. But that was a few years ago. I'm not 
primarily a GUI guy - I mostly do "mission critical" server side 
programming, but when i do venture back into SWING work I haven't had 
many problems. True, it's cross-platform nature brings it's own 
headaches with it.
 
I personaly can't recall any TWS problems that were Java based, nor 
can I imagine any limitations it would introduce outside of 
integration to outside apps via the OS (granted, this may be a 
primary requirement to some). But any speed or graphics issues now-a-
days are generaly based on the developer's experience. I've done 
professional c++, vb, delphi, and cobol work - and I'm at a loss as 
to why one would think Java was not suitable platform... java's 
weakness is in advanced mathemtics, and even then it was used for the 
3-d graphics engine for EverQuest. And the major firms on wall street 
are big time java shops.

KBryan

#31

Thanks for your e-mail. I will be out of town for 3 days and will respond after returning. Pleaase send future e-mails to??? kybryan@...???????????? thanks

thestattrader wrote:

Show quoted text

?True, Java GUI development used to require quite a bit of work-
arounds when SWING was new. But that was a few years ago. I'm not
primarily a GUI guy - I mostly do "mission critical" server side
programming, but when i do venture back into SWING work I haven't had
many problems. True, it's cross-platform nature brings it's own
headaches with it.
I personaly can't recall any TWS problems that were Java based, nor
can I imagine any limitations it would introduce outside of
integration to outside apps via the OS (granted, this may be a
primary requirement to some). But any speed or graphics issues now-a-
days are generaly based on the developer's experience. I've done
professional c++, vb, delphi, and cobol work - and I'm at a loss as
to why one would think Java was not suitable platform... java's
weakness is in advanced mathemtics, and even then it was used for the
3-d graphics engine for EverQuest. And the major firms on wall street
are big time java shops.
?
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Yolanda

#34

hi-thanks for the e-mail. Will be gone for a few days and will respond after that. Please send future e-mails to??????? kybryan@...???????????????? thanks

dtkamp wrote:

Show quoted text

?Hi StatTrader. Your view here sounds quite reasonable for someone who
is actively writing Java code. Having already stated a counterview,
others are free to decide for themselves, and I'll resist getting any
deeper into this complex issue unless/until it becomes something that
needs resolving (such as in some sort of cooperative endeavor).
Peace. (MS also appears to be planning on bringing some form of Java
back to .NET, which will further confuse the discussion.)
--- In twsapi@y..., "thestattrader" wrote:
> True, Java GUI development used to require quite a bit of work-
> arounds when SWING was new. But that was a few years ago. I'm not
> primarily a GUI guy - I mostly do "mission critical" server side
> programming, but when i do venture back into SWING work I haven't
had
> many problems. True, it's cross-platform nature brings it's own
> headaches with it.
>
> I personaly can't recall any TWS problems that were Java based, nor
> can I imagine any limitations it would introduce outside of
> integration to outside apps via the OS (granted, this may be a
> primary requirement to some). But any speed or graphics issues now-
a-
> days are generaly based on the developer's experience. I've done
> professional c++, vb, delphi, and cobol work - and I'm at a loss as
> to why one would think Java was not suitable platform... java's
> weakness is in advanced mathemtics, and even then it was used for
the
> 3-d graphics engine for EverQuest. And the major firms on wall
street
> are big time java shops.
?
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
twsapi-unsubscribe@...
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

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java developer willing to lend a hand