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Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

This person is mixing many different things in his/her last response probably trying to change the subject so I see a reason to not respond to them.

For those who may get confused by this thread, no person (non registered company) can issue dividend to another person. Only registered corporations can issue dividends.



On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 11:19 AM G-Money <dgre420@...> wrote:
Bruce, you couldn¡¯t be more wrong. Please do a bit of research before dangerously misinforming folks¡­ if you were a registered rep, you could literally go to prison/be fined/barred from the industry by saying stuff like this: "person who is short never have to pay a dividend¡± - so please!!!!!! Do your homework before providing information.?



No, long & short are NOT both purchases.?
No, short does not involve using your margin loan - meaning, you DO NOT incur margin loan interest when you short stock. You may incur borrowing fees, but these are NOT, I repeat NOT the same as your margin loan interest.?
Yes, you CAN take out margin loan to buy property, it¡¯s called collateralized lending/non-purpose loans, etc¡­?
YES YES YES - you will 100%, absolutely pay the dividend out of your own pocket when you are short stock that pays dividends and you are SHORT at the start of the day on EX-DATE, i.e. if you short the day before ex-date; irrespective of the session. This happens ALL THE TIME and people lose out hundreds of thousands of dollars for not knowing that their ITM short calls could get called away, leaving them short the stock into ex-date and they then having to pay the dividend because, among other things, the premium of the corresponding put is smaller than the dividend amount.?




On Aug 10, 2021, at 9:34 AM, Bruce B <bruceb444@...> wrote:

When margin is activated (money is borrowed) interest starts accruing regardless of how you use that margin loan. It can be to purchase a long or purchase a short position. Both long and short are purchase transactions. In both cases daily interest fee accrue. Also, there are no other ways to borrow margin. User must go short or long. For example can't take out the margin loan to buy a property.

Also, I *think someone earlier said those with short position must pay dividend to whomever they borrowed from. This is mot correct. Dividend is paid by the corporation and rules for who gets that dividend is clearly stated on IBKR. So, person who is short never have to pay a dividend on behalf of a corporation to someone else.


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 10:26 AM G-Money <dgre420@...> wrote:
One issue at hand here which I don¡¯t think anyone has explicitly stated is that short stock credits do not offset margin debits. And usually, not sure if this is the case with IB (I only trade futures and an IRA portfolio), retail brokers don¡¯t pay margin interest credits to short stock (they do on short option credits). So even if you were net zero cash (your total shorts offset your total longs cash-wise) you would still incur margin debit charges on the full amount of borrowed cash for your longs.?

Again just to clarify, short stock does not offset margin debit balances.



On Aug 10, 2021, at 8:29 AM, Bruce B <bruceb444@...> wrote:

?
IBKR does NOT convert currency at each trade. It puts a negative position on account for that currency and its up to user to fill it whenever they like or never do and simply sell the asset to fill it. So this shouldn't always add to fees as it might also work in favour sometimes by forex movements.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:51 AM Francois G via??<namasteparis=[email protected]> wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade. That's how I got a huge fee bill to pay when I stepped in the game.
Re: Issuer Country

 

Well, the short answer is you can't. At least not directly.

Anything you can request is documented in and the responses to your request in

Scanners respond with a series of objects that are not fully initialized but have enough information that you can the complete object. There are no issuer country fields in ? or
?but you can find the list of exchanges where the instrument is listed. Then you could determine the instrument issuer country code from the exchange country location.

That's probably the best you can do.

JR


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 05:17 AM, <mrc.lgl@...> wrote:
How to find out the issuer country for the scanner results I receive? 
?
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Bruce, you couldn¡¯t be more wrong. Please do a bit of research before dangerously misinforming folks¡­ if you were a registered rep, you could literally go to prison/be fined/barred from the industry by saying stuff like this: "person who is short never have to pay a dividend¡± - so please!!!!!! Do your homework before providing information.?



No, long & short are NOT both purchases.?
No, short does not involve using your margin loan - meaning, you DO NOT incur margin loan interest when you short stock. You may incur borrowing fees, but these are NOT, I repeat NOT the same as your margin loan interest.?
Yes, you CAN take out margin loan to buy property, it¡¯s called collateralized lending/non-purpose loans, etc¡­?
YES YES YES - you will 100%, absolutely pay the dividend out of your own pocket when you are short stock that pays dividends and you are SHORT at the start of the day on EX-DATE, i.e. if you short the day before ex-date; irrespective of the session. This happens ALL THE TIME and people lose out hundreds of thousands of dollars for not knowing that their ITM short calls could get called away, leaving them short the stock into ex-date and they then having to pay the dividend because, among other things, the premium of the corresponding put is smaller than the dividend amount.?




On Aug 10, 2021, at 9:34 AM, Bruce B <bruceb444@...> wrote:

When margin is activated (money is borrowed) interest starts accruing regardless of how you use that margin loan. It can be to purchase a long or purchase a short position. Both long and short are purchase transactions. In both cases daily interest fee accrue. Also, there are no other ways to borrow margin. User must go short or long. For example can't take out the margin loan to buy a property.

Also, I *think someone earlier said those with short position must pay dividend to whomever they borrowed from. This is mot correct. Dividend is paid by the corporation and rules for who gets that dividend is clearly stated on IBKR. So, person who is short never have to pay a dividend on behalf of a corporation to someone else.


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 10:26 AM G-Money <dgre420@...> wrote:
One issue at hand here which I don¡¯t think anyone has explicitly stated is that short stock credits do not offset margin debits. And usually, not sure if this is the case with IB (I only trade futures and an IRA portfolio), retail brokers don¡¯t pay margin interest credits to short stock (they do on short option credits). So even if you were net zero cash (your total shorts offset your total longs cash-wise) you would still incur margin debit charges on the full amount of borrowed cash for your longs.?

Again just to clarify, short stock does not offset margin debit balances.



On Aug 10, 2021, at 8:29 AM, Bruce B <bruceb444@...> wrote:

?
IBKR does NOT convert currency at each trade. It puts a negative position on account for that currency and its up to user to fill it whenever they like or never do and simply sell the asset to fill it. So this shouldn't always add to fees as it might also work in favour sometimes by forex movements.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:51 AM Francois G via??<namasteparis=[email protected]> wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade. That's how I got a huge fee bill to pay when I stepped in the game.
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

Good tip. Didn't know this exist.

And you are right that base currency is for end of month reporting.

Conversion or not is part of strategy and nothing to do with base currency or fees.


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 10:31 AM J G via <windmill_1965=[email protected]> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 03:51 PM, Francois G wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade.
There is a setting in TWS to automatically do a forex trade in case you buy/sell something in a currency other than your base currency. If you don't have this setting set then TWS/IB will not do any automatic forex trade and it is up to you to decide how to handle the non-base currency cash position. The default setting is that no automatic forex trade is submitted.
This automatism is not available in the API and you would need to program that yourself explicitly to have any such forex trade done.
The base currency setting is mainly useful for selecting how your monthly reports are sent to you, which currency is used in those reports.

Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

When margin is activated (money is borrowed) interest starts accruing regardless of how you use that margin loan. It can be to purchase a long or purchase a short position. Both long and short are purchase transactions. In both cases daily interest fee accrue. Also, there are no other ways to borrow margin. User must go short or long. For example can't take out the margin loan to buy a property.

Also, I *think someone earlier said those with short position must pay dividend to whomever they borrowed from. This is mot correct. Dividend is paid by the corporation and rules for who gets that dividend is clearly stated on IBKR. So, person who is short never have to pay a dividend on behalf of a corporation to someone else.


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 10:26 AM G-Money <dgre420@...> wrote:
One issue at hand here which I don¡¯t think anyone has explicitly stated is that short stock credits do not offset margin debits. And usually, not sure if this is the case with IB (I only trade futures and an IRA portfolio), retail brokers don¡¯t pay margin interest credits to short stock (they do on short option credits). So even if you were net zero cash (your total shorts offset your total longs cash-wise) you would still incur margin debit charges on the full amount of borrowed cash for your longs.?

Again just to clarify, short stock does not offset margin debit balances.



On Aug 10, 2021, at 8:29 AM, Bruce B <bruceb444@...> wrote:

?
IBKR does NOT convert currency at each trade. It puts a negative position on account for that currency and its up to user to fill it whenever they like or never do and simply sell the asset to fill it. So this shouldn't always add to fees as it might also work in favour sometimes by forex movements.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:51 AM Francois G via <namasteparis=[email protected]> wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade. That's how I got a huge fee bill to pay when I stepped in the game.

Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 03:51 PM, Francois G wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade.
There is a setting in TWS to automatically do a forex trade in case you buy/sell something in a currency other than your base currency. If you don't have this setting set then TWS/IB will not do any automatic forex trade and it is up to you to decide how to handle the non-base currency cash position. The default setting is that no automatic forex trade is submitted.
This automatism is not available in the API and you would need to program that yourself explicitly to have any such forex trade done.
The base currency setting is mainly useful for selecting how your monthly reports are sent to you, which currency is used in those reports.
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

One issue at hand here which I don¡¯t think anyone has explicitly stated is that short stock credits do not offset margin debits. And usually, not sure if this is the case with IB (I only trade futures and an IRA portfolio), retail brokers don¡¯t pay margin interest credits to short stock (they do on short option credits). So even if you were net zero cash (your total shorts offset your total longs cash-wise) you would still incur margin debit charges on the full amount of borrowed cash for your longs.?

Again just to clarify, short stock does not offset margin debit balances.



On Aug 10, 2021, at 8:29 AM, Bruce B <bruceb444@...> wrote:

?
IBKR does NOT convert currency at each trade. It puts a negative position on account for that currency and its up to user to fill it whenever they like or never do and simply sell the asset to fill it. So this shouldn't always add to fees as it might also work in favour sometimes by forex movements.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:51 AM Francois G via <namasteparis=[email protected]> wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade. That's how I got a huge fee bill to pay when I stepped in the game.

Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

IBKR does NOT convert currency at each trade. It puts a negative position on account for that currency and its up to user to fill it whenever they like or never do and simply sell the asset to fill it. So this shouldn't always add to fees as it might also work in favour sometimes by forex movements.


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:51 AM Francois G via <namasteparis=[email protected]> wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade. That's how I got a huge fee bill to pay when I stepped in the game.

Issuer country code in the scanner's results

[email protected]
 

I want the issuer country code to be displayed in the scanner's results 
?
FB, AMZN like symbol does not return any historical data using TWS reqHistoricalData() method while using duration 1 D and barsize 5 secs

 

Hello,
Recently I am trying to get historical data of FB, and AMZN in a Python-based project. I use?durationStr?= 1 D and?barSizeSetting?= 5 secs. Here is a snippet of my code:

reqHistoricalData(
? ? reqId=tickers.index(ticker), contract=contract, endDateTime='', durationStr='1 D',
? ? barSizeSetting='5 secs', whatToShow='ADJUSTED_LAST',
? ? useRTH=1, formatDate=1, keepUpToDate=0, chartOptions=[]
)

Unfortunately, it does not return any data for FB, AMZN (and maybe another symbol) when I use the above configuration. But it returns a result if I use other symbols, like: AAPL, MSFT, or NVAX.

Is it an issue with TWS API or something else? Also, anyone knows how to fix the issue?

#tareq
Re: Issuer Country

[email protected]
 

How to find out the issuer country for the scanner results I receive? 
?
Re: Issuer Country

[email protected]
 

What is the function in the EWrapper that returns the value for the country? 
?
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade. That's how I got a huge fee bill to pay when I stepped in the game.
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

Well, you dont say what your base capital is, so the interest rate you state is meaningless.? And i assume you are doing equities:

So, a 800k long, and 799k short position (1k net), on 50% margin (so 400k of capital) means you are paying 7k in interest for borrowing 400k in long securities.? But, you collect dividends to offset.? Anyway, if my scenario is correct, you are paying about 1.75% in interest on your borrowed longs (7k on 400k), offset by net dividends (you pay dividends on the shorts).? If by gross you mean 200k capital (so 400k long, 399k short), interest rate is closer to 4%

Now, you are also short a bunch of stocks, those have borrow fees... not interest? (you dont mention those costs, and often are higher than interest costs)

This is not a zero risk position for IB, your shorts might outperform the longs, you sell one side, and dont have enough money to cover the losses on the other, interest costs, borrow fees, cant meet margin requirements, ect.

zero net exposure is not zero risk.? And trading strategy does not matter either for the interest rate, but does matter for how risky it is.

But am curious if you are managing to offset interest and borrowing costs, given your absolute return type of strategy.



?

?
Forex vs stocks

Erez Kaplan
 

Forex vs stocks

?

Hi, I¡¯ve been testing the api for over a year ( I am well experienced in software, much less in??trading).?

?

Noticing there are extremely experienced people with high knowledge and experience in Algo Trading( in this group), I was hoping to get some insights from such persons, relating the following:

?

Why ( so it seems to me) most Algo Traders favour forex?

Can the same benefits be obtained when trading stocks?

?

Cheers?

?
Re: Issuer Country

 

I am still not clear what exactly you are trying to do but maybe this will help.

Take a look at the XML list of scanner parameters you can retrieve with . Among them is a SimpleFilter with id "ISSUER_COUNTRY_CODE".

And country filtering can be done on the instrument field in

JR


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 12:37 AM, <mrc.lgl@...> wrote:
Both, first I'd like to retrieve that value for the scanner results, then I'd like to use the same value to filter the? results on the scanner
Re: Issuer Country

[email protected]
 

Both, first I'd like to retrieve that value for the scanner results, then I'd like to use the same value to filter the? results on the scanner
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

What you posed is I think two questions and here are my answers:

A- I think you won't be able to setup wrong with margin interest fees. That fee is probably very accurate and users would have no control over it because that is the main revenue for IBKR. I have tracked these for a while and they were accurate (i.e. matched their interest rate calculator tool).

B- If the $7k you mentioned is interest fees on margin you borrowed then you are probably doing well given you accrued such? high interest fees. In a way it is not high and in a way it is high. It is high because IBKR has the lowest margin fees and still you see it is quiet a bit. All brokers make this much or more and I think it is too high when they take 0% risk. On the other hand, the number you wrote sounds like you have a winning strategy. If you are winning well above this fee then this fee is not high in that context.

Bottom line: I don't think you can lower the fees AND you won't find better margin interest rates anywhere else. IBKR wins this by far.

I am Interested to know how many times the interest was your profit for the same period? (your strategy's to fee ratio).


On Mon, Aug 9, 2021, 5:09 AM Graham Bygrave <graham@...> wrote:
Hey,

I've been looking at the various fees that IB charges and noticed I'm
paying just over ?7k/year in financing on a self funding portfolio that
runs a net position of - on average - about ?1k.? In case it's not
obvious, that implies a fairly withering interest rate.? The portfolio
runs a gross position of about ?800k (but obviously pays for any longs
with corresponding shorts). The 7k excludes any sec lending fees.

Does this sound right or did I set things up wrong?

Cheers,
G.
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

Yes, this looks in line with ibkr margin interest rates:?
Re: Negative volume in tickString

 

We trade ES, NQ, EC, CL, EUR, NG, GC, RTY and YM in US. FTSE and DAX in Eurex and other products like HO, BRN etc. Interesting that the negative volume was discovered on ES and NQ. need to check now if we have it in others.

I concur that the negative volume happens on the break 17-18:00 EST which is 16-17:00 in Chicago. We restart our systems between 23:50 - 00:05 EST.

And could never get significant results with VX
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