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Re: An Additional Group Moderator

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Richard,

Again, thanks for all you have done - it's so much!

Give ´³¨¹°ù²µ±ð²Ô my best and my thanks.

Be Well,
Lou Dudka

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Richard L King <rlking@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 6:54 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [Special] [TWS API] An Additional Group Moderator
?

I'm delighted to announce that I have appointed an additional Moderator for this group: ´³¨¹°ù²µ±ð²Ô Reinold, who has been a significant contributor for quite some time, using the moniker JR. In future he will be using his full name.

This appointment is helpful both to me and to the Group, as I was hitherto the sole moderator, which meant that the group would have had difficulties if I were to be unable to continue the role for any reason.

Generally speaking this Group is very well behaved, and the need for Moderator intervention is rare, so ´³¨¹°ù²µ±ð²Ô's duties will mostly consist of approving posts from new members. On occasions where he finds it necessary to intervene, please show him the same respect as you have always shown me.

Thanks

Richard King Group Owner and Moderator
Re: An Additional Group Moderator

 

I felt honored and did not really have to think for very long when Richard reached out to ask the "impertinent question" whether I'd be interested in giving him a hand with group moderation. And as Richard said, moderation mostly deals with new member requests so that nothing else will change.

Thank you for the trust and I'll try to be as helpful as I can.

´³¨¹°ù²µ±ð²Ô
Re: An Additional Group Moderator

Victor
 

Congrats and welcome.?


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 6:54 PM Richard L King <rlking@...> wrote:

I'm delighted to announce that I have appointed an additional Moderator for this group: ´³¨¹°ù²µ±ð²Ô Reinold, who has been a significant contributor for quite some time, using the moniker JR. In future he will be using his full name.

This appointment is helpful both to me and to the Group, as I was hitherto the sole moderator, which meant that the group would have had difficulties if I were to be unable to continue the role for any reason.

Generally speaking this Group is very well behaved, and the need for Moderator intervention is rare, so ´³¨¹°ù²µ±ð²Ô's duties will mostly consist of approving posts from new members. On occasions where he finds it necessary to intervene, please show him the same respect as you have always shown me.

Thanks

Richard King Group Owner and Moderator
An Additional Group Moderator

 

I'm delighted to announce that I have appointed an additional Moderator for this group: ´³¨¹°ù²µ±ð²Ô Reinold, who has been a significant contributor for quite some time, using the moniker JR. In future he will be using his full name.

This appointment is helpful both to me and to the Group, as I was hitherto the sole moderator, which meant that the group would have had difficulties if I were to be unable to continue the role for any reason.

Generally speaking this Group is very well behaved, and the need for Moderator intervention is rare, so ´³¨¹°ù²µ±ð²Ô's duties will mostly consist of approving posts from new members. On occasions where he finds it necessary to intervene, please show him the same respect as you have always shown me.

Thanks

Richard King Group Owner and Moderator
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

Fascinating but probably way off topic for our TWS API group.

Investing in general and in particular short selling come with a lot of fine print and the rules are often very different around the world. Having said that, with very little research effort you can find that Drast and G-Money are indeed correct and holding short positions does expose you (in the US) to dividend payment liabilities.
  • Just swing by the U.S Securities and Exchange Commission at
  • Or Investopia at
  • Or PocketSense at
JR
Re: Data Limitation for TickByTick

 

Yes, i think that sounds like a reasonable goal :D I dont think they offer futures, but send them a message, i have talked to them quite a bit and they always respond fast. It also seems they are constantly working on new features. I dont think the service is perfect, but its so far best i could find ( price/features/api )
Re: Data Limitation for TickByTick

 

I didn't say that it's going to be easy, Luke. Would be a nice goal though.

When the humidity here and the slippery touch pad prematurely sent my note I wanted to add that polygon.io looks like an interesting offering for US stocks but they don't have futures (yet?) that we are more interested in.

JR


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 03:02 PM, Luke wrote:

@JR

Thank you for reply. I have been so far very happy with IB tickByTick data to construct bars, but i read on that page, that there is limit of 60 tickers no matter what. I could probably be fine with 60 tickers, but to get to those 60 tickers on free data, it essentially means you need either $60 000 000 in equity or pay $48 000 in commissions. Well, i think i will go with polygon, at least for now :)
Re: Data Limitation for TickByTick

 

@JR

Thank you for reply. I have been so far very happy with IB tickByTick data to construct bars, but i read on that page, that there is limit of 60 tickers no matter what. I could probably be fine with 60 tickers, but to get to those 60 tickers on free data, it essentially means you need either $60 000 000 in equity or pay $48 000 in commissions. Well, i think i will go with polygon, at least for now :)
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

I have no stance or knowledge on the dividend paying issue, but: if the person, who borrowed the stock pays the dividend to the person, who the stock is borrowed from, who does the corporation pay the dividend for that stock to? They certainly still have to do that, right?

Without further research, Bruce's version does make more sense to me from a purely logical (not legal) perspective

?

Am 10. August 2021 um 19:53:38, Drast (drast2@...) schrieb:

Bruce, G-money was exactly right above, and all his points are relevant to your initial post.

Short selling:? IB handles a lot you are not accounting for:? When you short a stock, you borrow it from someone else via a security lending program (and pay an ongoing fee to do so).? You then sell the stock in the market (that is how you get the cash).? But you have the obligation to return the stock at some point, plus pay any dividends the stock pays along the way.? You absolutely have to pay the dividends.? The person you borrowed the stock from gets the dividend money, some of the borrowing fees (rest to their broker), and eventually their actual stock back (so basically a little better off than just holding the stock).

Again, those borrowing fees are not interest, so you should find out how much you paid in those.

Re: Data Limitation for TickByTick

 

I believe your calculation is correct but you can also get "free" data lines for a sufficiently active or large account. Check out the impact of monthly commissions and portfolio value under "How Market Data is Allocated" at

There may be other reasons to use a different real-time data provider. For example, when lag or choppiness of the data are important, when brief interruptions during the maintenance window cause issues, or when time stamps with resolutions of less than one second are required. Keep in mind that IB is not a data provider and their infrastructure is optimized to support human-centric trading via TWS and trade automation via the TWS API.

It looks like polygon.io

JR


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 12:11 PM, Luke wrote:

I just want to double check if the information i found is correct for TickByTick data. By default user has 100 market data lines and each tbt data for one ticker is worth 100 lines. You get minimum 3 tickers, which is essentially equivalent of 300 lines.

If you would want 4 tickers tho, you would need 400 lines, but that would mean buying 3 booster packs, which is $90 for 4 tickers using tbt. Meaning, if you want 10 tickers using tbt, you need to get 9 booster packs, which is $270 per month for 10 tickers? With hard limit being 10 booster packs, which means the max you can have is 11 tickers using tbt.

Let me please know if i got it right.?

If that is the case, then it seems obvious something like Polygion.io, which is offering i believe unlimited tickers for $200 is a better deal.
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

Bruce, G-money was exactly right above, and all his points are relevant to your initial post.

Short selling:? IB handles a lot you are not accounting for:? When you short a stock, you borrow it from someone else via a security lending program (and pay an ongoing fee to do so).? You then sell the stock in the market (that is how you get the cash).? But you have the obligation to return the stock at some point, plus pay any dividends the stock pays along the way.? You absolutely have to pay the dividends.? The person you borrowed the stock from gets the dividend money, some of the borrowing fees (rest to their broker), and eventually their actual stock back (so basically a little better off than just holding the stock).

Again, those borrowing fees are not interest, so you should find out how much you paid in those.
Data Limitation for TickByTick

 

I just want to double check if the information i found is correct for TickByTick data. By default user has 100 market data lines and each tbt data for one ticker is worth 100 lines. You get minimum 3 tickers, which is essentially equivalent of 300 lines.

If you would want 4 tickers tho, you would need 400 lines, but that would mean buying 3 booster packs, which is $90 for 4 tickers using tbt. Meaning, if you want 10 tickers using tbt, you need to get 9 booster packs, which is $270 per month for 10 tickers? With hard limit being 10 booster packs, which means the max you can have is 11 tickers using tbt.

Let me please know if i got it right.?

If that is the case, then it seems obvious something like Polygion.io, which is offering i believe unlimited tickers for $200 is a better deal.
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

This person is mixing many different things in his/her last response probably trying to change the subject so I see a reason to not respond to them.

For those who may get confused by this thread, no person (non registered company) can issue dividend to another person. Only registered corporations can issue dividends.



On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 11:19 AM G-Money <dgre420@...> wrote:
Bruce, you couldn¡¯t be more wrong. Please do a bit of research before dangerously misinforming folks¡­ if you were a registered rep, you could literally go to prison/be fined/barred from the industry by saying stuff like this: "person who is short never have to pay a dividend¡± - so please!!!!!! Do your homework before providing information.?



No, long & short are NOT both purchases.?
No, short does not involve using your margin loan - meaning, you DO NOT incur margin loan interest when you short stock. You may incur borrowing fees, but these are NOT, I repeat NOT the same as your margin loan interest.?
Yes, you CAN take out margin loan to buy property, it¡¯s called collateralized lending/non-purpose loans, etc¡­?
YES YES YES - you will 100%, absolutely pay the dividend out of your own pocket when you are short stock that pays dividends and you are SHORT at the start of the day on EX-DATE, i.e. if you short the day before ex-date; irrespective of the session. This happens ALL THE TIME and people lose out hundreds of thousands of dollars for not knowing that their ITM short calls could get called away, leaving them short the stock into ex-date and they then having to pay the dividend because, among other things, the premium of the corresponding put is smaller than the dividend amount.?




On Aug 10, 2021, at 9:34 AM, Bruce B <bruceb444@...> wrote:

When margin is activated (money is borrowed) interest starts accruing regardless of how you use that margin loan. It can be to purchase a long or purchase a short position. Both long and short are purchase transactions. In both cases daily interest fee accrue. Also, there are no other ways to borrow margin. User must go short or long. For example can't take out the margin loan to buy a property.

Also, I *think someone earlier said those with short position must pay dividend to whomever they borrowed from. This is mot correct. Dividend is paid by the corporation and rules for who gets that dividend is clearly stated on IBKR. So, person who is short never have to pay a dividend on behalf of a corporation to someone else.


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 10:26 AM G-Money <dgre420@...> wrote:
One issue at hand here which I don¡¯t think anyone has explicitly stated is that short stock credits do not offset margin debits. And usually, not sure if this is the case with IB (I only trade futures and an IRA portfolio), retail brokers don¡¯t pay margin interest credits to short stock (they do on short option credits). So even if you were net zero cash (your total shorts offset your total longs cash-wise) you would still incur margin debit charges on the full amount of borrowed cash for your longs.?

Again just to clarify, short stock does not offset margin debit balances.



On Aug 10, 2021, at 8:29 AM, Bruce B <bruceb444@...> wrote:

?
IBKR does NOT convert currency at each trade. It puts a negative position on account for that currency and its up to user to fill it whenever they like or never do and simply sell the asset to fill it. So this shouldn't always add to fees as it might also work in favour sometimes by forex movements.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:51 AM Francois G via??<namasteparis=[email protected]> wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade. That's how I got a huge fee bill to pay when I stepped in the game.
Re: Issuer Country

 

Well, the short answer is you can't. At least not directly.

Anything you can request is documented in and the responses to your request in

Scanners respond with a series of objects that are not fully initialized but have enough information that you can the complete object. There are no issuer country fields in ? or
?but you can find the list of exchanges where the instrument is listed. Then you could determine the instrument issuer country code from the exchange country location.

That's probably the best you can do.

JR


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 05:17 AM, <mrc.lgl@...> wrote:
How to find out the issuer country for the scanner results I receive? 
?
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Bruce, you couldn¡¯t be more wrong. Please do a bit of research before dangerously misinforming folks¡­ if you were a registered rep, you could literally go to prison/be fined/barred from the industry by saying stuff like this: "person who is short never have to pay a dividend¡± - so please!!!!!! Do your homework before providing information.?



No, long & short are NOT both purchases.?
No, short does not involve using your margin loan - meaning, you DO NOT incur margin loan interest when you short stock. You may incur borrowing fees, but these are NOT, I repeat NOT the same as your margin loan interest.?
Yes, you CAN take out margin loan to buy property, it¡¯s called collateralized lending/non-purpose loans, etc¡­?
YES YES YES - you will 100%, absolutely pay the dividend out of your own pocket when you are short stock that pays dividends and you are SHORT at the start of the day on EX-DATE, i.e. if you short the day before ex-date; irrespective of the session. This happens ALL THE TIME and people lose out hundreds of thousands of dollars for not knowing that their ITM short calls could get called away, leaving them short the stock into ex-date and they then having to pay the dividend because, among other things, the premium of the corresponding put is smaller than the dividend amount.?




On Aug 10, 2021, at 9:34 AM, Bruce B <bruceb444@...> wrote:

When margin is activated (money is borrowed) interest starts accruing regardless of how you use that margin loan. It can be to purchase a long or purchase a short position. Both long and short are purchase transactions. In both cases daily interest fee accrue. Also, there are no other ways to borrow margin. User must go short or long. For example can't take out the margin loan to buy a property.

Also, I *think someone earlier said those with short position must pay dividend to whomever they borrowed from. This is mot correct. Dividend is paid by the corporation and rules for who gets that dividend is clearly stated on IBKR. So, person who is short never have to pay a dividend on behalf of a corporation to someone else.


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 10:26 AM G-Money <dgre420@...> wrote:
One issue at hand here which I don¡¯t think anyone has explicitly stated is that short stock credits do not offset margin debits. And usually, not sure if this is the case with IB (I only trade futures and an IRA portfolio), retail brokers don¡¯t pay margin interest credits to short stock (they do on short option credits). So even if you were net zero cash (your total shorts offset your total longs cash-wise) you would still incur margin debit charges on the full amount of borrowed cash for your longs.?

Again just to clarify, short stock does not offset margin debit balances.



On Aug 10, 2021, at 8:29 AM, Bruce B <bruceb444@...> wrote:

?
IBKR does NOT convert currency at each trade. It puts a negative position on account for that currency and its up to user to fill it whenever they like or never do and simply sell the asset to fill it. So this shouldn't always add to fees as it might also work in favour sometimes by forex movements.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:51 AM Francois G via??<namasteparis=[email protected]> wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade. That's how I got a huge fee bill to pay when I stepped in the game.
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

Good tip. Didn't know this exist.

And you are right that base currency is for end of month reporting.

Conversion or not is part of strategy and nothing to do with base currency or fees.


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 10:31 AM J G via <windmill_1965=[email protected]> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 03:51 PM, Francois G wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade.
There is a setting in TWS to automatically do a forex trade in case you buy/sell something in a currency other than your base currency. If you don't have this setting set then TWS/IB will not do any automatic forex trade and it is up to you to decide how to handle the non-base currency cash position. The default setting is that no automatic forex trade is submitted.
This automatism is not available in the API and you would need to program that yourself explicitly to have any such forex trade done.
The base currency setting is mainly useful for selecting how your monthly reports are sent to you, which currency is used in those reports.

Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

When margin is activated (money is borrowed) interest starts accruing regardless of how you use that margin loan. It can be to purchase a long or purchase a short position. Both long and short are purchase transactions. In both cases daily interest fee accrue. Also, there are no other ways to borrow margin. User must go short or long. For example can't take out the margin loan to buy a property.

Also, I *think someone earlier said those with short position must pay dividend to whomever they borrowed from. This is mot correct. Dividend is paid by the corporation and rules for who gets that dividend is clearly stated on IBKR. So, person who is short never have to pay a dividend on behalf of a corporation to someone else.


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 10:26 AM G-Money <dgre420@...> wrote:
One issue at hand here which I don¡¯t think anyone has explicitly stated is that short stock credits do not offset margin debits. And usually, not sure if this is the case with IB (I only trade futures and an IRA portfolio), retail brokers don¡¯t pay margin interest credits to short stock (they do on short option credits). So even if you were net zero cash (your total shorts offset your total longs cash-wise) you would still incur margin debit charges on the full amount of borrowed cash for your longs.?

Again just to clarify, short stock does not offset margin debit balances.



On Aug 10, 2021, at 8:29 AM, Bruce B <bruceb444@...> wrote:

?
IBKR does NOT convert currency at each trade. It puts a negative position on account for that currency and its up to user to fill it whenever they like or never do and simply sell the asset to fill it. So this shouldn't always add to fees as it might also work in favour sometimes by forex movements.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:51 AM Francois G via <namasteparis=[email protected]> wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade. That's how I got a huge fee bill to pay when I stepped in the game.

Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 03:51 PM, Francois G wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade.
There is a setting in TWS to automatically do a forex trade in case you buy/sell something in a currency other than your base currency. If you don't have this setting set then TWS/IB will not do any automatic forex trade and it is up to you to decide how to handle the non-base currency cash position. The default setting is that no automatic forex trade is submitted.
This automatism is not available in the API and you would need to program that yourself explicitly to have any such forex trade done.
The base currency setting is mainly useful for selecting how your monthly reports are sent to you, which currency is used in those reports.
Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

One issue at hand here which I don¡¯t think anyone has explicitly stated is that short stock credits do not offset margin debits. And usually, not sure if this is the case with IB (I only trade futures and an IRA portfolio), retail brokers don¡¯t pay margin interest credits to short stock (they do on short option credits). So even if you were net zero cash (your total shorts offset your total longs cash-wise) you would still incur margin debit charges on the full amount of borrowed cash for your longs.?

Again just to clarify, short stock does not offset margin debit balances.



On Aug 10, 2021, at 8:29 AM, Bruce B <bruceb444@...> wrote:

?
IBKR does NOT convert currency at each trade. It puts a negative position on account for that currency and its up to user to fill it whenever they like or never do and simply sell the asset to fill it. So this shouldn't always add to fees as it might also work in favour sometimes by forex movements.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:51 AM Francois G via <namasteparis=[email protected]> wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade. That's how I got a huge fee bill to pay when I stepped in the game.

Re: 700% financing charges on a self funding portfolio

 

IBKR does NOT convert currency at each trade. It puts a negative position on account for that currency and its up to user to fill it whenever they like or never do and simply sell the asset to fill it. So this shouldn't always add to fees as it might also work in favour sometimes by forex movements.


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:51 AM Francois G via <namasteparis=[email protected]> wrote:
You should also pay attention to the 'Base currency' set up in your account. If you trade US products, you MUST set the base currency to USD. Or else, you'll pay currency conversion fees at EACH trade. That's how I got a huge fee bill to pay when I stepped in the game.

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