Timing chains 22 and 22re.

Dick Rettke

I have 65k on 22re and my guy just looked at the guides and said they are
ok.  -=dr=-

Show quoted text

----- Original Message -----
From: <jacka2@...>
To: <toyota-campers@...>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 11:04 AM
Subject: [toyota-campers] Timing chains 22 and 22re.

Pre 1983 4cyl engines had double row timing
chains and are bullet proof. V-6s use belts.

83 up had single row chains. The 22re has
a single row chain with plastic chain guides.

At around 60k the chain begins to stretch and
rattle against the guides. This is what you
hear on start up. It is the begining of guide
failure. The more miles with chain rattle, the
more wear on the guides. Eventually, guide wears,
the chain sharpens and cuts away the timing cover,
dumping coolant into the oil pan.

As the guide fails, pieces will break off and drop
into the oil pan (good luck). (On rare occasions
it will get into the gears and cause catastrophic
engine failure (bad luck). The 20 thru 22re are
"interference" engines. A chain failure will cause
major engine damage. But It's the plastic guides
that go first.

Back to the rattle: It sounds kind of like a deisel
running , then disappears almost instantly on
start up as the oil flows and the chain tension is
taken up. The longer the rattle period, the worse
shape the chain is in (stretched). A good one (new)
will make no noise at all.

It can be hard to tell what you're hearing here, but
as the engine is an OHC type, there is no lifter
or push rod noise to be heard. That said, the engines
are old and clunkie OHC designs, and do make some noise.

The owners manual says replace at 60k? Drivers
of the 22-22re on other lists say 100k? A survey
of failures on the 4x4 list showed guide failure
at 100-150k.

The fix is extensive. The pan is loosened, the
head and  timing cover, (and all their attached
goodies) must be removed to get at the chain and
guides.  Some shops have changed them without
removing the head by "fishing" the new chain on,
however, oil leaks can occur using this method.

The  parts that are usually replaced are: sprockets,
guides and chains.  The guides are usually replaced
with all steel, after market parts such as those
sold by DOA.

This job can be done by a "do It your self" type
if they are good. Toyota quoted one list member
$1,300, and that's for plastic guides. I have not
checked shop prices.

You can check the guides and chain slack by
removing the valve cover and looking down the chain
cover with a flashlight. This would also make a good
pre-purchase check for your mechanic if you are doubt
when buying a used machine.

Jack A2

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#1339

Pre 1983 4cyl engines had double row timing
chains and are bullet proof. V-6s use belts.

83 up had single row chains. The 22re has
a single row chain with plastic chain guides.

At around 60k the chain begins to stretch and
rattle against the guides. This is what you
hear on start up. It is the begining of guide
failure. The more miles with chain rattle, the
more wear on the guides. Eventually, guide wears, 
the chain sharpens and cuts away the timing cover,
dumping coolant into the oil pan.

As the guide fails, pieces will break off and drop
into the oil pan (good luck). (On rare occasions
it will get into the gears and cause catastrophic
engine failure (bad luck). The 20 thru 22re are 
"interference" engines. A chain failure will cause
major engine damage. But It's the plastic guides
that go first.

Back to the rattle: It sounds kind of like a deisel
running , then disappears almost instantly on
start up as the oil flows and the chain tension is
taken up. The longer the rattle period, the worse
shape the chain is in (stretched). A good one (new)
will make no noise at all.

It can be hard to tell what you're hearing here, but
as the engine is an OHC type, there is no lifter
or push rod noise to be heard. That said, the engines
are old and clunkie OHC designs, and do make some noise.

The owners manual says replace at 60k? Drivers
of the 22-22re on other lists say 100k? A survey
of failures on the 4x4 list showed guide failure
at 100-150k. 

The fix is extensive. The pan is loosened, the
head and  timing cover, (and all their attached
goodies) must be removed to get at the chain and
guides.  Some shops have changed them without
removing the head by "fishing" the new chain on,
however, oil leaks can occur using this method.

The  parts that are usually replaced are: sprockets,
guides and chains.  The guides are usually replaced
with all steel, after market parts such as those
sold by DOA.

This job can be done by a "do It your self" type
if they are good. Toyota quoted one list member
$1,300, and that's for plastic guides. I have not 
checked shop prices.  

You can check the guides and chain slack by 
removing the valve cover and looking down the chain
cover with a flashlight. This would also make a good
pre-purchase check for your mechanic if you are doubt
when buying a used machine.

Jack A2

Jack Redman

#1352

Jack, this is good information on timing chains.  Thanks.

I took my valve cover off and looked at my timing chain (1986 
Sunrader - 22RE engine - 85,000 miles).  The chain was tight on the 
passenger side but had about 1/4 inch deflection on the driver's 
side.  So, I think I am ok for another 20,000 miles or so.

My engine makes a lot of funny sounds, the loudest one seems to be 
coming from the EGR valve.... a clicking noise.  I cannot hear any 
bad noises coming from the timing chain itself.

Anyway, I will be sensitive to timing chain problems from now on.

Jack R.

#1382

Hello Group, Jack, and Dick:

I found this while surfing...at:  


Their quote, not mine.
"This is a no-brainer - if you are rebuilding, due for a new timing 
chain, or your existing guides have broken, I wholeheartedly 
recommend using these guides to improve your engine's reliability." 
- Eric Johnson, Product Review, Off-Road.com, March 1999 
  
These metal backed guides (sold in guides only or a full timing set) 
are intended to replace the factory's plastic offerings. This guide 
set is guaranteed for the life of your motor - no questions asked. 
Bottom line, they will not break, and the 22r weak link has now been 
resolved. There is no longer any reason to worry about single row 
chain guide failure. 
Timing set includes: Upper and lower gears, metal backed guides, high 
quality chain, chain tensioner, main seal (high quality), gaskets and 
hardware.

Metal Backed Guides (per set)	$65
Full Timing Set ('85 and later)	$201
Full Timing Set ('84 and earlier - double row) 	$150

Britt

#1407

Here is a question for Jack and anyone else:

When a 22re engine is "factory rebuilt," does that mean that the 
plastic timing chain guides are automatically replaced with new 
ones?  If not, is there any way to tell what their condition might 
be?  Appreciating your advice.  Tika

Show quoted text

--- In toyota-campers@y..., jacka2@e... wrote:
Pre 1983 4cyl engines had double row timing
chains and are bullet proof. V-6s use belts.

83 up had single row chains. The 22re has
a single row chain with plastic chain guides.

At around 60k the chain begins to stretch and
rattle against the guides. This is what you
hear on start up. It is the begining of guide
failure. The more miles with chain rattle, the
more wear on the guides. Eventually, guide wears, 
the chain sharpens and cuts away the timing cover,
dumping coolant into the oil pan.

As the guide fails, pieces will break off and drop
into the oil pan (good luck). (On rare occasions
it will get into the gears and cause catastrophic
engine failure (bad luck). The 20 thru 22re are 
"interference" engines. A chain failure will cause
major engine damage. But It's the plastic guides
that go first.

Back to the rattle: It sounds kind of like a deisel
running , then disappears almost instantly on
start up as the oil flows and the chain tension is
taken up. The longer the rattle period, the worse
shape the chain is in (stretched). A good one (new)
will make no noise at all.

It can be hard to tell what you're hearing here, but
as the engine is an OHC type, there is no lifter
or push rod noise to be heard. That said, the engines
are old and clunkie OHC designs, and do make some noise.

The owners manual says replace at 60k? Drivers
of the 22-22re on other lists say 100k? A survey
of failures on the 4x4 list showed guide failure
at 100-150k. 

The fix is extensive. The pan is loosened, the
head and  timing cover, (and all their attached
goodies) must be removed to get at the chain and
guides.  Some shops have changed them without
removing the head by "fishing" the new chain on,
however, oil leaks can occur using this method.

The  parts that are usually replaced are: sprockets,
guides and chains.  The guides are usually replaced
with all steel, after market parts such as those
sold by DOA.

This job can be done by a "do It your self" type
if they are good. Toyota quoted one list member
$1,300, and that's for plastic guides. I have not 
checked shop prices.  

You can check the guides and chain slack by 
removing the valve cover and looking down the chain
cover with a flashlight. This would also make a good
pre-purchase check for your mechanic if you are doubt
when buying a used machine.

Jack A2

开云体育

Timing chains 22 and 22re.