|
I have seen discussions about high RF levels damaging the TinySA even when it is turned OFF. So I have to wonder when the TinySA is in shipment if it is being subjected to RF levels that could destroy it. For instance, X-Ray inspection of parcels. Is there a danger of this kind of damage during shipment?
?
Geoff
|
Geoff,
In the role I use the TinySA Ultra, it is constantly in the vicinity of inhibitors of varying strengths and so far they have had no impact on the system. Obviously I don't use the TinySA Ultra too close to the units but I believe that there should be no issues
with them being subjected to x-ray machines. Just my experience.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have seen discussions about high RF levels damaging the TinySA even when it is turned OFF. So I have to wonder when the TinySA is in shipment if it is being subjected to RF levels that could destroy it. For instance, X-Ray inspection of parcels. Is there
a danger of this kind of damage during shipment?
?
Geoff
|
from :
"X-rays have wavelengths ranging from 0.01 to 10 nanometers, frequency ranging from 30 petahertz to 30 exahertz"
: (3×1016?Hz?to?3×1019?Hz)?
(far away from input range of the TinySA)
|
This is what gets me worried:
?
"the +10dBm maximum input level is a limit in any RF frequency band, even if the tinySA is powered off. As an example, the tinySA will not detect a microwave oven (2.4GHz) on the screen but can be very well damaged by it. Similarly, other strong out of band sources won’t be detected by the tinySA, but can still induce enough RF power to damage the RF circuitry. ?With the telescopic antenna connected, susceptibility doesn’t depend on the tinySA being ON or OFF because the antenna will receive that powerful signal and will inject it into the spectrum analyzer, with serious risk of damage. ?Best practice is to not store or leave the tinySA in a strong RF environment (i.e. next to a cellphone or radio transmitter) with the antenna attached when turned off."
?
Which is why I was concerned about X-rays, which are just higher frequency RF.
?
|
On 2024-12-05 13:21, Geoff KE0BNX
wrote:
This is what gets me worried:
?
"the +10dBm maximum input level is a limit in any RF
frequency band, even if the tinySA is powered off. As an
example, the tinySA will not detect a microwave oven (2.4GHz) on
the screen but can be very well damaged by it. Similarly, other
strong out of band sources won’t be detected by the tinySA, but
can still induce enough RF power to damage the RF circuitry.
?With the telescopic antenna connected, susceptibility doesn’t
depend on the tinySA being ON or OFF because the antenna will
receive that powerful signal and will inject it into the
spectrum analyzer, with serious risk of damage. ?Best practice
is to not store or leave the tinySA in a strong RF environment
(i.e. next to a cellphone or radio transmitter) with the antenna
attached when turned off."
?
Which is why I was concerned about X-rays, which are just
higher frequency RF.
?
If that worries you, don't let the sun shine on the telescopic
antenna. It is much lower in frequency than X-rays and would be
picked more efficiently.
Get the idea?
Arie
|
If you have an antenna connected, there is always that possibility IF you are near a really strong RF source. I don't see it happening without an antenna connected unless you do something like put the TinySA inside a microwave oven and turn the oven on.
Zack W9SZ
I have seen discussions about high RF levels damaging the TinySA even when it is turned OFF. So I have to wonder when the TinySA is in shipment if it is being subjected to RF levels that could destroy it. For instance, X-Ray inspection of parcels. Is there a danger of this kind of damage during shipment?
?
Geoff
|
I get the point, but where do you draw the line short of enclosing yourself and the TinySA in a Faraday cage?
?
Geoff
|
I have a commercial spectrum analyzer / modulation analyzer at work that cost 80k new and has a maximal input level of +10dbm and 0VDC. Yes it is in a metal case but still, the input limitation are there. It all comes down to being careful when you use it.
?
John
|
I would be far more concerned about the effects of x-rays on my body than on a TinySA. At the power level that may harm a TinySA, you had better be wearing a protective suit.
Zack W9SZ
This is what gets me worried:
?
"the +10dBm maximum input level is a limit in any RF frequency band, even if the tinySA is powered off. As an example, the tinySA will not detect a microwave oven (2.4GHz) on the screen but can be very well damaged by it. Similarly, other strong out of band sources won’t be detected by the tinySA, but can still induce enough RF power to damage the RF circuitry.? With the telescopic antenna connected, susceptibility doesn’t depend on the tinySA being ON or OFF because the antenna will receive that powerful signal and will inject it into the spectrum analyzer, with serious risk of damage.? Best practice is to not store or leave the tinySA in a strong RF environment (i.e. next to a cellphone or radio transmitter) with the antenna attached when turned off."
?
Which is why I was concerned about X-rays, which are just higher frequency RF.
?
|
Without anything connected to the input it is VERY difficult to damage the tinySA
You can check this by doing a full range scan , zero to 6 GHz, and check if you see anything close to 0 dBm. Even next to an active microwave or wireless access point you will not see much without antenna?
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to
|
If you are concerned about damage while powered down, just put a
termination or SOLT Short on the connector.
I trust you are using Connector Savers as well:-)
Cheers...Bob VK2ZRE
On 6/12/2024 1:48 am, Zack Widup via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I would be far more concerned about the effects of x-rays
on my body than on a TinySA. At the power level that may harm
a TinySA, you had better be wearing a protective suit.
Zack W9SZ
This is what gets me worried:
?
"the +10dBm maximum input level is a limit in any RF
frequency band, even if the tinySA is powered off. As an
example, the tinySA will not detect a microwave oven
(2.4GHz) on the screen but can be very well damaged by it.
Similarly, other strong out of band sources won’t be
detected by the tinySA, but can still induce enough RF power
to damage the RF circuitry.? With the telescopic antenna
connected, susceptibility doesn’t depend on the tinySA being
ON or OFF because the antenna will receive that powerful
signal and will inject it into the spectrum analyzer, with
serious risk of damage.? Best practice is to not store or
leave the tinySA in a strong RF environment (i.e. next to a
cellphone or radio transmitter) with the antenna attached
when turned off."
?
Which is why I was concerned about X-rays, which are just
higher frequency RF.
?
|
Aren't X-rays photons? Are you thinking of X band? (8-12 GHz)
?
===========
---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Bob Ecclestone via groups.io" <becclest@...> To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [tinysa] TinySA safety Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2024 10:04:37 +1100
If you are concerned about damage while powered down, just put a termination or SOLT Short on the connector.
I trust you are using Connector Savers as well:-)
Cheers...Bob VK2ZRE
On 6/12/2024 1:48 am, Zack Widup via groups.io wrote:
I would be far more concerned about the effects of x-rays on my body than on a TinySA. At the power level that may harm a TinySA, you had better be wearing a protective suit.
?
Zack W9SZ
This is what gets me worried:
?
"the +10dBm maximum input level is a limit in any RF frequency band, even if the tinySA is powered off. As an example, the tinySA will not detect a microwave oven (2.4GHz) on the screen but can be very well damaged by it. Similarly, other strong out of band sources won’t be detected by the tinySA, but can still induce enough RF power to damage the RF circuitry.? With the telescopic antenna connected, susceptibility doesn’t depend on the tinySA being ON or OFF because the antenna will receive that powerful signal and will inject it into the spectrum analyzer, with serious risk of damage.? Best practice is to not store or leave the tinySA in a strong RF environment (i.e. next to a cellphone or radio transmitter) with the antenna attached when turned off."
?
Which is why I was concerned about X-rays, which are just higher frequency RF.
?
?
|
All
electromagnetic radiation consists of photons!
Reference:
On 12/5/2024 3:10 PM, Don Safer via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Aren't X-rays photons? Are you thinking of X band? (8-12 GHz)
?
===========
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bob Ecclestone via groups.io"
<becclest@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tinysa] TinySA safety
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2024 10:04:37 +1100
If you are concerned about damage while powered down, just
put a termination or SOLT Short on the connector.
I trust you are using Connector Savers as well:-)
Cheers...Bob VK2ZRE
On 6/12/2024 1:48 am, Zack Widup
via groups.io wrote:
I would be far more concerned about the effects of
x-rays on my body than on a TinySA. At the power level
that may harm a TinySA, you had better be wearing a
protective suit.
?
Zack W9SZ
This is what gets me worried:
?
"the +10dBm maximum input level is a limit in any RF
frequency band, even if the tinySA is powered off. As an
example, the tinySA will not detect a microwave oven
(2.4GHz) on the screen but can be very well damaged by
it. Similarly, other strong out of band sources won’t be
detected by the tinySA, but can still induce enough RF
power to damage the RF circuitry.? With the telescopic
antenna connected, susceptibility doesn’t depend on the
tinySA being ON or OFF because the antenna will receive
that powerful signal and will inject it into the
spectrum analyzer, with serious risk of damage.? Best
practice is to not store or leave the tinySA in a strong
RF environment (i.e. next to a cellphone or radio
transmitter) with the antenna attached when turned off."
?
Which is why I was concerned about X-rays, which are
just higher frequency RF.
?
?
|
Frequency of electro-magnetic waves (from neutron to light to radio) is dependent on capacitance. Higher the charge lower the capacitance, meaning high frequency radiation will not penetrate deep, but will cause surface damage if induction is possible. For that reason IR radiation will penetrate much more than UV radiation but IR will go through thick walls while UV will not. Special coating excluded. So if you want to see high frequency light penetrating shielding or plastic you need brutal amounts of coherent delivery to the small spot as opposed to low frequency photos called neutrons. Effect on inductive vs high dielectric material is also very different. The moment light induces it transforms to other frequencies and will eventually stop penetrating If it does not induce it continues passing through medium. Every material has unique phases and densities of available space for wave to induce so interactions can a be bit more complex to explain. In general light is HUGE compared to atoms and molecules but 99.9999% of atoms are used space. That used space fluctuates so if wave is synchronous it may pass. Christaline structure supraconductors
(superconductors is also used but original word back in the days was supra not super) for example are synchronised in motion so light can induce indefinitely. Passing through different densities will cause change in charge/inductance or frequency with losses if any. Neutrons will pass through whole earth and continue for a very long time and that spectrum range (alpha, beta, gama) will cause random noise in computers and transistors and thus temporary failures in computers. CPU will generally execute every instruction 3 times but only one iteration is reported. If all 3 match it is a pass. This is an issue in server farms, for ordinary users not so much. That is also the reason why in the old days 386 and some 486 were only CPUs that we could send to space. All newer would fail because of radiation.
That being said you put your head next to electrical wires, and there is A LOT of energy dissipated from LEDs for example,switchers etc in from of electromagnetic radiation. There is so little energy there to be induced that you need not worry about it. If you have highly sensitive (hypothetical) and tuned antennae that does not exist you can fry it if you get close to it because YOU yourself are a very good antennae and will pass signals. Take BC107 transistor and hold its base (leg) and observe how it becomes conductive. Take comparator (Op. amps) and hold one leg (in amplifier or comparator configuration) and observe the crazy signals coming through you. Like ECG. Like EKG. Like all kinds of pulses your body generates + 50/60Hz if you are not far away from ANY power infrastructure.
So in short, high frequency light carries lots of charge in very small "space" - high capacitance. It will therefore induce itself in anything and deliver all that energy in one spot. That is why UV is dangerous to living compounds, it damages them. Low frequency light will induce over longer distances and will gradually fall apart and penetrate deeper while the amount of energy delivered in total is about equal. Therefore anything above a 10 GHz will completely stop on a sheet of paper. If you use tuned conductor it will induce and you will be able to measure it. But it won't fry anything unless amplified and for amplification you need POWER.
On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 12:18?AM Geoff Peters - AB6BT via <AB6BT= [email protected]> wrote:
All
electromagnetic radiation consists of photons!
Reference:
On 12/5/2024 3:10 PM, Don Safer via
wrote:
Aren't X-rays photons? Are you thinking of X band? (8-12 GHz)
?
===========
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bob Ecclestone via "
<becclest@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tinysa] TinySA safety
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2024 10:04:37 +1100
If you are concerned about damage while powered down, just
put a termination or SOLT Short on the connector.
I trust you are using Connector Savers as well:-)
Cheers...Bob VK2ZRE
On 6/12/2024 1:48 am, Zack Widup
via wrote:
I would be far more concerned about the effects of
x-rays on my body than on a TinySA. At the power level
that may harm a TinySA, you had better be wearing a
protective suit.
?
Zack W9SZ
This is what gets me worried:
?
"the +10dBm maximum input level is a limit in any RF
frequency band, even if the tinySA is powered off. As an
example, the tinySA will not detect a microwave oven
(2.4GHz) on the screen but can be very well damaged by
it. Similarly, other strong out of band sources won’t be
detected by the tinySA, but can still induce enough RF
power to damage the RF circuitry.? With the telescopic
antenna connected, susceptibility doesn’t depend on the
tinySA being ON or OFF because the antenna will receive
that powerful signal and will inject it into the
spectrum analyzer, with serious risk of damage.? Best
practice is to not store or leave the tinySA in a strong
RF environment (i.e. next to a cellphone or radio
transmitter) with the antenna attached when turned off."
?
Which is why I was concerned about X-rays, which are
just higher frequency RF.
?
?
-- SOFTECH, IGOR FEHER S.P.
Liminjanska cesta 96
6320 Portoro?
Slovenija
Tel: +386 41 872 601
|
Neutrons are particulate, NOT electromagnetic energy!?
And,.....many additional comments I'll leave unwritten........
Dave - W?LEV
Frequency of electro-magnetic waves (from neutron to light to radio) is dependent on capacitance. Higher the charge lower the capacitance, meaning high frequency radiation will not penetrate deep, but will cause surface damage if induction is possible. For that reason IR radiation will penetrate much more than UV radiation but IR will go through thick walls while UV will not. Special coating excluded. So if you want to see high frequency light penetrating shielding or plastic you need brutal amounts of coherent delivery to the small spot as opposed to low frequency photos called neutrons. Effect on inductive vs high dielectric material is also very different. The moment light induces it transforms to other frequencies and will eventually stop penetrating If it does not induce it continues passing through medium. Every material has unique phases and densities of available space for wave to induce so interactions can a be bit more complex to explain. In general light is HUGE compared to atoms and molecules but 99.9999% of atoms are used space. That used space fluctuates so if wave is synchronous it may pass. Christaline structure supraconductors
(superconductors is also used but original word back in the days was supra not super) for example are synchronised in motion so light can induce indefinitely. Passing through different densities will cause change in charge/inductance or frequency with losses if any. Neutrons will pass through whole earth and continue for a very long time and that spectrum range (alpha, beta, gama) will cause random noise in computers and transistors and thus temporary failures in computers. CPU will generally execute every instruction 3 times but only one iteration is reported. If all 3 match it is a pass. This is an issue in server farms, for ordinary users not so much. That is also the reason why in the old days 386 and some 486 were only CPUs that we could send to space. All newer would fail because of radiation.
That being said you put your head next to electrical wires, and there is A LOT of energy dissipated from LEDs for example,switchers etc in from of electromagnetic radiation. There is so little energy there to be induced that you need not worry about it. If you have highly sensitive (hypothetical) and tuned antennae that does not exist you can fry it if you get close to it because YOU yourself are a very good antennae and will pass signals. Take BC107 transistor and hold its base (leg) and observe how it becomes conductive. Take comparator (Op. amps) and hold one leg (in amplifier or comparator configuration) and observe the crazy signals coming through you. Like ECG. Like EKG. Like all kinds of pulses your body generates + 50/60Hz if you are not far away from ANY power infrastructure.
So in short, high frequency light carries lots of charge in very small "space" - high capacitance. It will therefore induce itself in anything and deliver all that energy in one spot. That is why UV is dangerous to living compounds, it damages them. Low frequency light will induce over longer distances and will gradually fall apart and penetrate deeper while the amount of energy delivered in total is about equal. Therefore anything above a 10 GHz will completely stop on a sheet of paper. If you use tuned conductor it will induce and you will be able to measure it. But it won't fry anything unless amplified and for amplification you need POWER.
On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 12:18?AM Geoff Peters - AB6BT via <AB6BT= [email protected]> wrote:
All
electromagnetic radiation consists of photons!
Reference:
On 12/5/2024 3:10 PM, Don Safer via
wrote:
Aren't X-rays photons? Are you thinking of X band? (8-12 GHz)
?
===========
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bob Ecclestone via "
<becclest@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tinysa] TinySA safety
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2024 10:04:37 +1100
If you are concerned about damage while powered down, just
put a termination or SOLT Short on the connector.
I trust you are using Connector Savers as well:-)
Cheers...Bob VK2ZRE
On 6/12/2024 1:48 am, Zack Widup
via wrote:
I would be far more concerned about the effects of
x-rays on my body than on a TinySA. At the power level
that may harm a TinySA, you had better be wearing a
protective suit.
?
Zack W9SZ
This is what gets me worried:
?
"the +10dBm maximum input level is a limit in any RF
frequency band, even if the tinySA is powered off. As an
example, the tinySA will not detect a microwave oven
(2.4GHz) on the screen but can be very well damaged by
it. Similarly, other strong out of band sources won’t be
detected by the tinySA, but can still induce enough RF
power to damage the RF circuitry.? With the telescopic
antenna connected, susceptibility doesn’t depend on the
tinySA being ON or OFF because the antenna will receive
that powerful signal and will inject it into the
spectrum analyzer, with serious risk of damage.? Best
practice is to not store or leave the tinySA in a strong
RF environment (i.e. next to a cellphone or radio
transmitter) with the antenna attached when turned off."
?
Which is why I was concerned about X-rays, which are
just higher frequency RF.
?
?
--
SOFTECH, IGOR FEHER S.P.
Liminjanska cesta 96
6320 Portoro?
Slovenija
Tel: +386 41 872 601
|
Elementary particles, such as electrons, photons, and quarks, exhibit both particle-like and wave-like behavior, a phenomenon known as wave-particle duality. This duality is a fundamental aspect of quantum mechanics and has been experimentally confirmed numerous times.
Wave-like Properties:
Diffraction: Elementary particles can exhibit diffraction patterns, similar to those observed with water waves or sound waves, when passing through slits or around obstacles.
Interference: Particles can interfere with each other, resulting in patterns of constructive and destructive interference, similar to those seen with light waves.
Wavelength: Elementary particles have a characteristic wavelength, which determines their behavior in certain experiments.
Probability Amplitude: The probability of finding a particle at a given location is described by a wave function, similar to the probability amplitude of a wave.
Examples:
Double Slit Experiment: Electrons passing through two slits create an interference pattern on a screen, demonstrating wave-like behavior.
Photoelectric Effect: Photons, which are particles of light, exhibit wave-like behavior when interacting with electrons, leading to the emission of electrons with specific energies.
Quantum Eraser Experiment: Particles created in a high-energy collision can exhibit wave-like behavior, allowing for the erasure of which-path information and demonstrating quantum non-locality.
Implications:
Uncertainty Principle: The wave-like nature of elementary particles leads to the uncertainty principle, which sets limits on our ability to precisely measure certain properties, such as position and momentum.
Quantum Field Theory: The wave-like behavior of particles is described by quantum field theories, which unify the principles of quantum mechanics and special relativity.
Fundamental Nature: The wave-like properties of elementary particles reveal their fundamental, probabilistic nature, challenging classical notions of reality.
In summary, wave-like elementary particles exhibit diffraction, interference, wavelength, and probability amplitude, demonstrating the dual nature of particles and waves at the quantum level
|
TBH having fried the front end of a SDRplay V1 with excess RF in the shack. Just as a precaution I keep dummy loads on the input and calibration sockets of my TinySA ultra and the S1 & 2 in/outputs my Nano VNA-H when they are not in use. At <?2 each on a ?150+ instrument it makes sense. Well it does to me. I wouldn't know about ionising radiation penetrating the SA and damaging it but it could be possible for almost any electronic device these days. I guess if your going to travel with it then stick it in one of those old fashioned lead lined film bags alongside your phone.
|
Well, that certainly clears up the issue of TinySA safety.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 6, 2024, at 12:36?AM, Igor Feher via groups.io <igor.feher@...> wrote:
? Frequency of electro-magnetic waves (from neutron to light to radio) is dependent on capacitance. Higher the charge lower the capacitance, meaning high frequency radiation will not penetrate deep, but will cause surface damage if induction is possible. For that reason IR radiation will penetrate much more than UV radiation but IR will go through thick walls while UV will not. Special coating excluded. So if you want to see high frequency light penetrating shielding or plastic you need brutal amounts of coherent delivery to the small spot as opposed to low frequency photos called neutrons. Effect on inductive vs high dielectric material is also very different. The moment light induces it transforms to other frequencies and will eventually stop penetrating If it does not induce it continues passing through medium. Every material has unique phases and densities of available space for wave to induce so interactions can a be bit more complex to explain. In general light is HUGE compared to atoms and molecules but 99.9999% of atoms are used space. That used space fluctuates so if wave is synchronous it may pass. Christaline structure supraconductors
(superconductors is also used but original word back in the days was supra not super) for example are synchronised in motion so light can induce indefinitely. Passing through different densities will cause change in charge/inductance or frequency with losses if any. Neutrons will pass through whole earth and continue for a very long time and that spectrum range (alpha, beta, gama) will cause random noise in computers and transistors and thus temporary failures in computers. CPU will generally execute every instruction 3 times but only one iteration is reported. If all 3 match it is a pass. This is an issue in server farms, for ordinary users not so much. That is also the reason why in the old days 386 and some 486 were only CPUs that we could send to space. All newer would fail because of radiation.
That being said you put your head next to electrical wires, and there is A LOT of energy dissipated from LEDs for example,switchers etc in from of electromagnetic radiation. There is so little energy there to be induced that you need not worry about it. If you have highly sensitive (hypothetical) and tuned antennae that does not exist you can fry it if you get close to it because YOU yourself are a very good antennae and will pass signals. Take BC107 transistor and hold its base (leg) and observe how it becomes conductive. Take comparator (Op. amps) and hold one leg (in amplifier or comparator configuration) and observe the crazy signals coming through you. Like ECG. Like EKG. Like all kinds of pulses your body generates + 50/60Hz if you are not far away from ANY power infrastructure.
So in short, high frequency light carries lots of charge in very small "space" - high capacitance. It will therefore induce itself in anything and deliver all that energy in one spot. That is why UV is dangerous to living compounds, it damages them. Low frequency light will induce over longer distances and will gradually fall apart and penetrate deeper while the amount of energy delivered in total is about equal. Therefore anything above a 10 GHz will completely stop on a sheet of paper. If you use tuned conductor it will induce and you will be able to measure it. But it won't fry anything unless amplified and for amplification you need POWER.
On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 12:18?AM Geoff Peters - AB6BT via <AB6BT= [email protected]> wrote:
All
electromagnetic radiation consists of photons!
Reference:
On 12/5/2024 3:10 PM, Don Safer via
wrote:
Aren't X-rays photons? Are you thinking of X band? (8-12 GHz)
?
===========
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bob Ecclestone via "
<becclest@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tinysa] TinySA safety
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2024 10:04:37 +1100
If you are concerned about damage while powered down, just
put a termination or SOLT Short on the connector.
I trust you are using Connector Savers as well:-)
Cheers...Bob VK2ZRE
On 6/12/2024 1:48 am, Zack Widup
via wrote:
I would be far more concerned about the effects of
x-rays on my body than on a TinySA. At the power level
that may harm a TinySA, you had better be wearing a
protective suit.
?
Zack W9SZ
This is what gets me worried:
?
"the +10dBm maximum input level is a limit in any RF
frequency band, even if the tinySA is powered off. As an
example, the tinySA will not detect a microwave oven
(2.4GHz) on the screen but can be very well damaged by
it. Similarly, other strong out of band sources won’t be
detected by the tinySA, but can still induce enough RF
power to damage the RF circuitry.? With the telescopic
antenna connected, susceptibility doesn’t depend on the
tinySA being ON or OFF because the antenna will receive
that powerful signal and will inject it into the
spectrum analyzer, with serious risk of damage.? Best
practice is to not store or leave the tinySA in a strong
RF environment (i.e. next to a cellphone or radio
transmitter) with the antenna attached when turned off."
?
Which is why I was concerned about X-rays, which are
just higher frequency RF.
?
?
-- SOFTECH, IGOR FEHER S.P.
Liminjanska cesta 96
6320 Portoro?
Slovenija
Tel: +386 41 872 601
|
What is a difference between different photons on electromagnetic spectrum
from radio, to visible light to neutron,
expect for the frequency and observable field size?
Neutrons are particulate, NOT electromagnetic energy!?
And,.....many additional comments I'll leave unwritten........
Dave - W?LEV
Frequency of electro-magnetic waves (from neutron to light to radio) is dependent on capacitance. Higher the charge lower the capacitance, meaning high frequency radiation will not penetrate deep, but will cause surface damage if induction is possible. For that reason IR radiation will penetrate much more than UV radiation but IR will go through thick walls while UV will not. Special coating excluded. So if you want to see high frequency light penetrating shielding or plastic you need brutal amounts of coherent delivery to the small spot as opposed to low frequency photos called neutrons. Effect on inductive vs high dielectric material is also very different. The moment light induces it transforms to other frequencies and will eventually stop penetrating If it does not induce it continues passing through medium. Every material has unique phases and densities of available space for wave to induce so interactions can a be bit more complex to explain. In general light is HUGE compared to atoms and molecules but 99.9999% of atoms are used space. That used space fluctuates so if wave is synchronous it may pass. Christaline structure supraconductors
(superconductors is also used but original word back in the days was supra not super) for example are synchronised in motion so light can induce indefinitely. Passing through different densities will cause change in charge/inductance or frequency with losses if any. Neutrons will pass through whole earth and continue for a very long time and that spectrum range (alpha, beta, gama) will cause random noise in computers and transistors and thus temporary failures in computers. CPU will generally execute every instruction 3 times but only one iteration is reported. If all 3 match it is a pass. This is an issue in server farms, for ordinary users not so much. That is also the reason why in the old days 386 and some 486 were only CPUs that we could send to space. All newer would fail because of radiation.
That being said you put your head next to electrical wires, and there is A LOT of energy dissipated from LEDs for example,switchers etc in from of electromagnetic radiation. There is so little energy there to be induced that you need not worry about it. If you have highly sensitive (hypothetical) and tuned antennae that does not exist you can fry it if you get close to it because YOU yourself are a very good antennae and will pass signals. Take BC107 transistor and hold its base (leg) and observe how it becomes conductive. Take comparator (Op. amps) and hold one leg (in amplifier or comparator configuration) and observe the crazy signals coming through you. Like ECG. Like EKG. Like all kinds of pulses your body generates + 50/60Hz if you are not far away from ANY power infrastructure.
So in short, high frequency light carries lots of charge in very small "space" - high capacitance. It will therefore induce itself in anything and deliver all that energy in one spot. That is why UV is dangerous to living compounds, it damages them. Low frequency light will induce over longer distances and will gradually fall apart and penetrate deeper while the amount of energy delivered in total is about equal. Therefore anything above a 10 GHz will completely stop on a sheet of paper. If you use tuned conductor it will induce and you will be able to measure it. But it won't fry anything unless amplified and for amplification you need POWER.
On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 12:18?AM Geoff Peters - AB6BT via <AB6BT= [email protected]> wrote:
All
electromagnetic radiation consists of photons!
Reference:
On 12/5/2024 3:10 PM, Don Safer via
wrote:
Aren't X-rays photons? Are you thinking of X band? (8-12 GHz)
?
===========
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bob Ecclestone via "
<becclest@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tinysa] TinySA safety
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2024 10:04:37 +1100
If you are concerned about damage while powered down, just
put a termination or SOLT Short on the connector.
I trust you are using Connector Savers as well:-)
Cheers...Bob VK2ZRE
On 6/12/2024 1:48 am, Zack Widup
via wrote:
I would be far more concerned about the effects of
x-rays on my body than on a TinySA. At the power level
that may harm a TinySA, you had better be wearing a
protective suit.
?
Zack W9SZ
This is what gets me worried:
?
"the +10dBm maximum input level is a limit in any RF
frequency band, even if the tinySA is powered off. As an
example, the tinySA will not detect a microwave oven
(2.4GHz) on the screen but can be very well damaged by
it. Similarly, other strong out of band sources won’t be
detected by the tinySA, but can still induce enough RF
power to damage the RF circuitry.? With the telescopic
antenna connected, susceptibility doesn’t depend on the
tinySA being ON or OFF because the antenna will receive
that powerful signal and will inject it into the
spectrum analyzer, with serious risk of damage.? Best
practice is to not store or leave the tinySA in a strong
RF environment (i.e. next to a cellphone or radio
transmitter) with the antenna attached when turned off."
?
Which is why I was concerned about X-rays, which are
just higher frequency RF.
?
?
--
SOFTECH, IGOR FEHER S.P.
Liminjanska cesta 96
6320 Portoro?
Slovenija
Tel: +386 41 872 601
--
-- SOFTECH, IGOR FEHER S.P.
Liminjanska cesta 96
6320 Portoro?
Slovenija
Tel: +386 41 872 601
|
Part two, did not read most of them, usually I link official science papers (peer reviewed) but I can't find it in my archive so I dug out these for anyone interested.
Again, hope I'm not spamming forum. If my previous post is incorrect I'm always opened for debate and most of the claims are my understanding of many different areas of physics and my interpretation of many unexplained experiments combined with alternative explanations from other much smarter people, living today and not among us anymore.
Links are somewhat in an increasing order, sorted by difficulty.
What is a difference between different photons on electromagnetic spectrum
from radio, to visible light to neutron,
expect for the frequency and observable field size?
Neutrons are particulate, NOT electromagnetic energy!?
And,.....many additional comments I'll leave unwritten........
Dave - W?LEV
Frequency of electro-magnetic waves (from neutron to light to radio) is dependent on capacitance. Higher the charge lower the capacitance, meaning high frequency radiation will not penetrate deep, but will cause surface damage if induction is possible. For that reason IR radiation will penetrate much more than UV radiation but IR will go through thick walls while UV will not. Special coating excluded. So if you want to see high frequency light penetrating shielding or plastic you need brutal amounts of coherent delivery to the small spot as opposed to low frequency photos called neutrons. Effect on inductive vs high dielectric material is also very different. The moment light induces it transforms to other frequencies and will eventually stop penetrating If it does not induce it continues passing through medium. Every material has unique phases and densities of available space for wave to induce so interactions can a be bit more complex to explain. In general light is HUGE compared to atoms and molecules but 99.9999% of atoms are used space. That used space fluctuates so if wave is synchronous it may pass. Christaline structure supraconductors
(superconductors is also used but original word back in the days was supra not super) for example are synchronised in motion so light can induce indefinitely. Passing through different densities will cause change in charge/inductance or frequency with losses if any. Neutrons will pass through whole earth and continue for a very long time and that spectrum range (alpha, beta, gama) will cause random noise in computers and transistors and thus temporary failures in computers. CPU will generally execute every instruction 3 times but only one iteration is reported. If all 3 match it is a pass. This is an issue in server farms, for ordinary users not so much. That is also the reason why in the old days 386 and some 486 were only CPUs that we could send to space. All newer would fail because of radiation.
That being said you put your head next to electrical wires, and there is A LOT of energy dissipated from LEDs for example,switchers etc in from of electromagnetic radiation. There is so little energy there to be induced that you need not worry about it. If you have highly sensitive (hypothetical) and tuned antennae that does not exist you can fry it if you get close to it because YOU yourself are a very good antennae and will pass signals. Take BC107 transistor and hold its base (leg) and observe how it becomes conductive. Take comparator (Op. amps) and hold one leg (in amplifier or comparator configuration) and observe the crazy signals coming through you. Like ECG. Like EKG. Like all kinds of pulses your body generates + 50/60Hz if you are not far away from ANY power infrastructure.
So in short, high frequency light carries lots of charge in very small "space" - high capacitance. It will therefore induce itself in anything and deliver all that energy in one spot. That is why UV is dangerous to living compounds, it damages them. Low frequency light will induce over longer distances and will gradually fall apart and penetrate deeper while the amount of energy delivered in total is about equal. Therefore anything above a 10 GHz will completely stop on a sheet of paper. If you use tuned conductor it will induce and you will be able to measure it. But it won't fry anything unless amplified and for amplification you need POWER.
On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 12:18?AM Geoff Peters - AB6BT via <AB6BT= [email protected]> wrote:
All
electromagnetic radiation consists of photons!
Reference:
On 12/5/2024 3:10 PM, Don Safer via
wrote:
Aren't X-rays photons? Are you thinking of X band? (8-12 GHz)
?
===========
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Bob Ecclestone via "
<becclest@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tinysa] TinySA safety
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2024 10:04:37 +1100
If you are concerned about damage while powered down, just
put a termination or SOLT Short on the connector.
I trust you are using Connector Savers as well:-)
Cheers...Bob VK2ZRE
On 6/12/2024 1:48 am, Zack Widup
via wrote:
I would be far more concerned about the effects of
x-rays on my body than on a TinySA. At the power level
that may harm a TinySA, you had better be wearing a
protective suit.
?
Zack W9SZ
This is what gets me worried:
?
"the +10dBm maximum input level is a limit in any RF
frequency band, even if the tinySA is powered off. As an
example, the tinySA will not detect a microwave oven
(2.4GHz) on the screen but can be very well damaged by
it. Similarly, other strong out of band sources won’t be
detected by the tinySA, but can still induce enough RF
power to damage the RF circuitry.? With the telescopic
antenna connected, susceptibility doesn’t depend on the
tinySA being ON or OFF because the antenna will receive
that powerful signal and will inject it into the
spectrum analyzer, with serious risk of damage.? Best
practice is to not store or leave the tinySA in a strong
RF environment (i.e. next to a cellphone or radio
transmitter) with the antenna attached when turned off."
?
Which is why I was concerned about X-rays, which are
just higher frequency RF.
?
?
--
SOFTECH, IGOR FEHER S.P.
Liminjanska cesta 96
6320 Portoro?
Slovenija
Tel: +386 41 872 601
--
--
SOFTECH, IGOR FEHER S.P.
Liminjanska cesta 96
6320 Portoro?
Slovenija
Tel: +386 41 872 601
-- SOFTECH, IGOR FEHER S.P.
Liminjanska cesta 96
6320 Portoro?
Slovenija
Tel: +386 41 872 601
|
Geoff KE0BNX
Tom_DG3NEO
Arie de Muijnck
John Cunliffe W7ZQ
Don Safer