|
FW release v1.0-42
One of the disadvantages of the tinySA as signal generator is the absence of a nice big dial you can use to tune the output frequency.
So I added a new feature: value button dragging.
This works in both output modes.
You can touch and hold the frequency button in the middle and when dragging left/right the frequency will decrease/increase with a speed relative to the distance to the center of the button.
Can some of you provide feedback if this is usable?
|
Erik,
As we humans are (mostly) an analog species, for the next iteration of the tinysa hardware, would a rotary quadrature dial with integral push button be useful in place of the jog switch?
I think the flakiness of the jog SW would be overcome completely. The down side would be a knob at the side or top edge (but not on the front).
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 9:03 AM, Erik Kaashoek <erik@...> wrote: FW release v1.0-42
One of the disadvantages of the tinySA as signal generator is the absence of a nice big dial you can use to tune the output frequency.
So I added a new feature: value button dragging.
This works in both output modes.
You can touch and hold the frequency button in the middle and when dragging left/right the frequency will decrease/increase with a speed relative to the distance to the center of the button.
Can some of you provide feedback if this is usable?
|
I like Erik's solution. It’s still better than waiting for an encoder that has no place or needs to be increased in size.
|
I like a rotary dial but space and cost may be a problem
|
On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 06:02 AM, Erik Kaashoek wrote:
FW release v1.0-42
One of the disadvantages of the tinySA as signal generator is the absence of a nice big dial you can use to tune the output frequency.
So I added a new feature: value button dragging.
This works in both output modes.
You can touch and hold the frequency button in the middle and when dragging left/right the frequency will decrease/increase with a speed relative to the distance to the center of the button.
Can some of you provide feedback if this is usable?
Erik, I tried the drag feature on my pre-production tinySA. In my opinion the drag feature would only be worth adding if the user could set the increment of the drag (i.e. 1kHz - 1MHz steps). As currently, implemented the feature duplicates setting up a automatic sweep using SPAN and SWEEP TIME settings - without the fine control.? Of course I wasn't sure about the usefulness of the vertical scaling when you first introduced it, and now I couldn't picture not having it. ?I would rather see the memory used on an additional input feature such as: ? ?1. editable limit line table ? ?2. editable transducer factor table ? ?3.?automatic OCBW (occupied bandwidth) measurement I'm sure other users have their own wish list of suggested additions, either for this version or the next. - Herb
|
Report a bug. In this version, the multifunction switch is invalid to the left.
|
On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 07:45 AM, Hugen wrote:
Report a bug. In this version, the multifunction switch is invalid to the left.
Erik, ? I can confirm hugen's bug report. - Herb
|
Not really a space issue as you can get rotary encoders with the same or smaller area footprint as the jog SW.?
They can either be thruhole or surface mount.?
The issue is incremental price.?
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 10:38 AM, Erik Kaashoek <erik@...> wrote: I like a rotary dial but space and cost may be a problem
|
On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 07:45 AM, Hugen wrote:
Report a bug. In this version, the multifunction switch is invalid to the left.
Repaired in FW v1.0-44
|
On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 07:41 AM, hwalker wrote:
In my opinion the drag feature would only be worth adding if the user could set the increment of the drag
My use case is when you are trying to tune the frequency of the generator to a yet unknown constant value (like the center of some filter) The amount of inc/decrement is set by the distance from the center of the button so if you start with 10MHz you can take steps between 100kHz (1% increments close to the center) and 20MHZ (200% at the edge of the button) I will try to make the smallest steps even smaller so you can do very fine frequency variations to tune the generator?
|
I do not yet own? the Tiny SA, but am a user of the nanoVNA-F 4.3” screen. Still the device is too small to be as useful as my HP VNA. I think developers too often are most concerned with the price point as opposed to making a more useful piece of test equipment that cost a bit more. Even at? say $150 with a larger screen, larger enclosure, encoder, perhaps a few programmable ?pushbuttons and type N connector, the TinySA would still be 1/10 the cost of other larger machines like Rigol. There is such? a thing as being too small. Just my opinion, ? Dale W4OP ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Erik Kaashoek
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 10:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tinysa] New FW: Experimental feature added: value button dragging ? I like a rotary dial but space and cost may be a problem
|
Dale,
I used to work in high volume consumer electronics. There we worked with consumer segments. Each different and each very interesting as a market.
For a large segment of customers (?roughly 40 to 60% of all customers) for a certain function the only important spec point besides the basic function working is price.
For another, value wise large, set of customer the best spec is the most important.
In between there is a third group of customers that requires deep understanding of what features they are willing to pay for.
As of now I understand how to make a cheap SA that still performs well on its basic functions
I have no clue yet on what functions people are willing to pay extra for, except maybe a bit bigger screen but? what else?
RBW down to 100Hz?
Low range going up to 1GHz (or even 2GHz)?
Physical buttons?
Better connector?
Once the tinySA is being used by many customers I expect them to tell me what the next steps can be and I will keep in mind that each customer is always right, but there are many truth out there.
|
I agree!
James NU5E
On 7/31/2020 9:54 AM, Dale Parfitt
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I
do not yet own? the Tiny SA, but am a user of the nanoVNA-F
4.3” screen. Still the device is too small to be as useful
as my HP VNA. I think developers too often are most
concerned with the price point as opposed to making a more
useful piece of test equipment that cost a bit more. Even
at? say $150 with a larger screen, larger enclosure,
encoder, perhaps a few programmable ?pushbuttons and type N
connector, the TinySA would still be 1/10 the cost of other
larger machines like Rigol.
There
is such? a thing as being too small.
Just
my opinion,
?
Dale
W4OP
?
From:
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Erik Kaashoek
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 10:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tinysa] New FW: Experimental feature
added: value button dragging
?
I like a rotary dial but space and cost may
be a problem
|
Narrow RBW isn't a feature that interests me much. If I want to drill down on problems near the carrier, my tool of choice is an SDR that covers the frequency I'm interested in. Receivers like the Airspy HF+ Discovery and SDRplay RSPdx?are great for that. And you can use them as radio receivers when they're not on the bench, making them a good value.
More frequency coverage in the low range is another matter; that would be very useful indeed. As it is, the low range doesn't have enough coverage for compliance testing of 2 meter or 1.25 meter equipment.
On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 12:28 PM Erik Kaashoek < erik@...> wrote: Dale,
I used to work in high volume consumer electronics. There we worked with consumer segments. Each different and each very interesting as a market.
For a large segment of customers (?roughly 40 to 60% of all customers) for a certain function the only important spec point besides the basic function working is price.
For another, value wise large, set of customer the best spec is the most important.
In between there is a third group of customers that requires deep understanding of what features they are willing to pay for.
As of now I understand how to make a cheap SA that still performs well on its basic functions
I have no clue yet on what functions people are willing to pay extra for, except maybe a bit bigger screen but? what else?
RBW down to 100Hz?
Low range going up to 1GHz (or even 2GHz)?
Physical buttons?
Better connector?
Once the tinySA is being used by many customers I expect them to tell me what the next steps can be and I will keep in mind that each customer is always right, but there are many truth out there.
|
Dear Erik,
Maybe I can help a bit with my personal experience of Spectrum Analysers. Many others may have similar stories to tell.
I am a retired doctor, but just happen to have a long (since age 10) history of an interest in electronics, sufficient to also pick up a degree in Electrical Sciences during my medical training. A career in electronics was not feasible, so electronics (and computing) remained a hobby, not a career.
Many years ago I had a problem driving a transducer to 50mhz from a hf amateur transceiver; just did not work. At the same time, I had built a very primitive Spectrum Analyser (0-100mhz) from a kit of parts. I discovered that the transverter output was full of other frequencies, so I made, and tuned an appropriate band pass filter, using a home made bridge and noise source with the Analyser. Success,! I was working on my own, no colleagues or nearby radio club to help.
As a result of this success, I bought an HP 141- based spectrum Analyser, repaired it and used it, eventually buying two more, including the 10ghz plugin. I improved the performance of the basic Analyser I had originally built, as well.?
I hardly used much of this kit in anger ( medical career taking up huge majority of my time), but I do know what I can do with a rbw of 100hz.
I have a roomful of boatanchor spectrum analysers (6 I think at the last count) all destined for the dustbin now. A tiny handheld device is not as good as the HP machines but at least does not take up bench space or need warming up for 2 hours, and is easier to use. And you can walk around with it to trace qrm (interference).
The TinySA will displace all these old machines, even with its current spec. A rbw of 1khz would be nice, as would operation up to 3gkz, so as to play with the obsolescent WiFi kit, for example. I own a Deepace KC901s ( discontinued) handheld - cost $1500 several years ago, and the TinySA does much of what this machine does for $50.
Please keep up the good work. Although I was “ spectrum Analyser literate”, I knew little about vna devices until I bought a nanovna. These devices are costing less than a mediocre restaurant meal for two. They will succeed and educate the radio and electronics community.
I hope this encourages you all to continue the development of these devices.
Stephen Laurence, radio amateur since 1964, doctor since 1975, G7PSZ
|
Erik,
For the next (small) version, I was thinking of a rotary encoder similar to the ones used on the old Blackberry phones, pre touchscreen.? ??
? ?
Go for big...
What about adding an expansion port that would take either a daughter card or expansion module?? With SPI and RF signals, it would be an experimenters dream.? ??
You build a powerful base unit with a decent sized display and you or others add option boards for demod, control, automated analysis, etc? Of course, power conditioning and noise issues would need to be looked at.? ??
Just some thoughts.
Cheers
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 12:28 PM, Erik Kaashoek <erik@...> wrote: Dale,
I used to work in high volume consumer electronics. There we worked with consumer segments. Each different and each very interesting as a market.
For a large segment of customers (?roughly 40 to 60% of all customers) for a certain function the only important spec point besides the basic function working is price.
For another, value wise large, set of customer the best spec is the most important.
In between there is a third group of customers that requires deep understanding of what features they are willing to pay for.
As of now I understand how to make a cheap SA that still performs well on its basic functions
I have no clue yet on what functions people are willing to pay extra for, except maybe a bit bigger screen but? what else?
RBW down to 100Hz?
Low range going up to 1GHz (or even 2GHz)?
Physical buttons?
Better connector?
Once the tinySA is being used by many customers I expect them to tell me what the next steps can be and I will keep in mind that each customer is always right, but there are many truth out there.
|
Yes those rotary encoders would be an improvement on the current jog, you'd have more/better control with altering settings.
|
On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 06:02 AM, Erik Kaashoek wrote:
FW release v1.0-44
You can touch and hold the frequency button in the middle and when dragging left/right the frequency will decrease/increase with a speed relative to the distance to the center of the button.
Can some of you provide feedback if this is usable?
Erik, ?v1.0-44 fixes the issue that was introduced regarding the multifunction switch.? The dragging left/right was kind of awkward for me, but picking a point left or right of center and holding down with the stylus accomplishes the same frequency decrease/increase action and feels more natural. ?I noticed the same action works for the LEVEL output button, at least in the LOW OUTPUT mode.? The action is only applicable for FREQ in the HIGH OUTPUT mode. - Herb
|
The dragging will work for all form buttons that activate a keypad
|
Hi Erik,
My wishlist;
I wish people would get a sense of perspective, if they want the features of equipment costing thousands, they should go and spend thousands.
I wish that if what you've created isn't good enough for them, they'd stop grumbling and go and produce something themselves.
I wish that people would show the gratitude that the work of you and the team deserves.
Erik, on behalf of a silent majority, thank you for all your dedication in producing something pretty amazing. Whatever the limitations of the Tinysa, it's far far superior to not having one.
Regards and many thanks Dave.
|
Gyula Molnar
Shirley Dulcey KE1L
Dave 'TXJ