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Locked Help ! Calling Ghostbusters.
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I have a large home on a hill in a fairly isolated peri-urban area, which I wouldn't expect to be subject to massive interference.
However, I also have >500 electronic devices, either plugged-in, on battery or hardwired.
Many of them wireless devices, and are experiencing intermittent connectivity problems, on all kinds of frequencies.
I know that after living 15 years in this haunted house, I am long overdue for the purchase of an EMI detector. I am trying to figure out which to get, and how to use it. The tinySA Ultra seems like it might be up to the task, but I'm still not sure how I would proceed with the investigation.
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Here are some of the devices/bands I experience problems on.
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- Various frequencies - smartphones cell networks have never worked properly indoors with any operator, despite the coverage map. They work in some outdoor locations but not others. This is probably on the operators just lying through their teeth with their coverage maps, and not interference. But our current phones dance alternately between no signal, GSM, 2G, 4G, LTE, 5G. It's essentially impossible to make any cell calls and not have them drop. We have to use Wifi calling.
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- 2.4 GHz / 5 GHz Wifi devices have lots of problems, especially 2.4 GHz IoT devices. The 9 APs are Ubiquiti Unifi. Two of them are wired, 7 meshed. Many clients don't connect for a long time or at all, a bunch connect to very distant APs, some have elevated packet loss, and some have very high ping times - I have seen as high as 10 seconds. There are now about 300 total Wifi 2.4 GHz clients with the recent addition of 220 Philips Wiz bulb in the last few months. I don't currently have any 6 GHz APs (Wifi 6e/7). I have a couple 6e capable clients (one phone, one laptop). There are only 9 5 GHz clients in the house - two phones, two laptops, two Raspberry Pi 3B+ used as controllers for my 2 Carrier Infinity HVAC, and 3 Enphase solar gateways.
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- 1.9 GHz - Panasonic DECT 6.0. This generally works pretty well, but the handsets sometimes don't connect to the base when pressing "Talk", and needs to be put into OFF mode and back ON . Likely a device bug, but I have only seen it happen with distant handsets, and not the one in the room closest to the base, so I can't rule out interference completely.
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- 923 MHz : Yolink devices sometimes lose connectivity, especially distant ones. That's the case intermittently for the water leak sensor at the bottom of one of my water heaters, for instance. And the door and temperature sensor in my garage freezer. My other 12 Yolink devices work very well. But I'm not adding any more until they have a local hub.
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- 912 - 920 MHz : my 30 Z-Wave LR devices have many problems. Many nodes go "dead" frequently in Home Assistant/Z-Wave JS UI and randomly become unusable. Some are distant, but others not so far. I have switched every single LR device to non-LR so the devices don't lose signal altogether.? The traditional Z-Wave mesh seems to work much better (or not as bad, see below). This could be device bugs due to LR implementations still being relatively recent.
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- 908 MHz : Z-Wave non-LR devices often have very long reaction time as well. Again, I have seen 10 seconds response time, just like for Wifi devices.
Unfortunately, there are also lots of outright transmission failures, especially when communicating with several devices consecutively, such to turn off all light switches in the house. Many switches don't turn off, and require a second attempt. Currently, there is a total of about 70 Z-Wave devices.
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- 433 MHz : Simplisafe v3 . I have one distant door sensor and keypad that randomly drop out of range of the base station. All 3 are stationary, and I don't quite understand why this happens. I could relocate the keypad, but can't relocate the door sensor. There are not many options for me to relocate the base that won't cause other devices to go out of range. I'm looking for some kind of wall or ceiling mount for the base station in order to improve this, but there is nothing available off the shelf. There are about 20 Simplisafe devices. I wonder if something else is interfering that could be moved./removed.
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If I had to sum it up, wireless signals just don't work reliably in my home overall. The only wireless signals that I don't believe ever failed are some Safeguard ERA-DCRX and ERA-VPRX doorbell transmitters that operate at 433 MHz.
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So, my questions are :
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1) is the tinySA Ultra device suitable to pinpoint the source of all these wireless issues ?
2) is there any guide that I could read about how to proceed with the use of the device before purchasing it ? Preferably in written form, not video.
3) has anyone else previously been in my shoes, and been able to resolve most or all of these problems ?
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I think that is your problem!!!!I have a large home on a hill in a fairly isolated peri-urban area, which I wouldn't expect to be subject Turn every thing off and test each system in isolation. Regards Jeff |
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That's really impractical for the hardwired devices, which are many. Flipping some of the 50 breakers works, but cannot isolate a single device such as a switch or bulb.
I can turn off power to entire lighting circuits, but not to smart switches or individual bulbs.
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I'm posting here because I'm hoping there is a tool that can help me with pinpointing the source(s) of the issues. Can tinySA really not help ?
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It is most likely that your problem is that you are just swamping the spectrum with so many devices. You are just overloading the capacity. There will not be just one problem so a spectrum analyser will not help.
You cannot expect 500+ devices to work in close proximity to each other. They will block each other. You need to manage your expectations. Regards Jeff ________________________________________ From: [email protected] on behalf of madbrain Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2025 09:53 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [tinysa] Help ! Calling Ghostbusters. That's really impractical for the hardwired devices, which are many. Flipping some of the 50 breakers works, but cannot isolate a single device such as a switch or bulb.I can turn off power to entire lighting circuits, but not to smart switches or individual bulbs.?I'm posting here because I'm hoping there is a tool that can help me with pinpointing the source(s) of the issues. Can tinySA really not help ? |
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What do you call close proximity ? This is a 4600 sq ft home on 3 levels indoors. There are many smart bulbs outdoors as well. The devices are not all close to each other. There is a fair amount i can turn off, but without flipping breakers it's not likely go to much below 150 count.
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As I listed in my OP, the various devices operate in a variety of bands. They should not interfere with devices in the other bands. My theory is that some of them may have defective radios and interfere with bands they aren't supposed to operate in. I suspect this especially because many of the devices were bought used, not new. Some of the smartbulbs for example don't have working BLE, only Wifi, even though they are supposed to have both.
This makes them difficult but not impossible to setup. I have been removing these half working bulbs. But there could be other sources of EMI. There are 2 EV chargers, 70 solar panels, 70 micro-inverters. Any of them could have an effect on EMI. I am not an EE, and I just don't know to what degree and at what distance. I thought a tool like the tinySA could help map where interference might be coming from location wise at least , if not device wise.
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How much metal is part of your home's costruction? Roof, exterior walls (metallized insulation, wire mesh under stucco, etc.), interior walls (are the studs wood or metal?), etc., etc. DaveD KC0WJN On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 04:22 G8HUL via <g8hul=[email protected]> wrote: >>I have a large home on a hill in a fairly isolated peri-urban area, which I wouldn't expect to be subject |
开云体育Hi. Let me conclude:? ?? that what is running over WiFi). ? Phones (1900 MHz) are relatively similar in behavior, but running on other band, so the same thoughts apply there (partially) too. ? ? I installed many WiFi networks in my life, but I would never go above 30-40 clients on one Access Point (AP). More clients may work, but with huge impact on throughput, but it is also possible that the accesspoints cannot handle that number of MAC addresses. I know that there are standards like 802.11r.? Such routers/APs support mesh radio (so they transparently hand over moving clients.? But a warning, I (still) have a few WiFi cameras in use that do not support that. Even worse, the cameras do not connect to this Mesh-WLAN and I had to define a separate VLAN without "r" especially for them.?? I doubt that every little smarthome device will smoothly support Mesh WLANs. ? So I would start with having a close look on number and location of APs to not have too many devices connected to a particular AP. In worst case you need to add more APs and lower their signal level to make radio cells smaller. And use copper backbones (connect every AP to the LAN switch by an individual LAN cable). Copper is LOTS faster than WiFi, and this way you also eliminate concatenated APs/Repeaters. This is how I would start with. ? Hope this helps you locating possible weak points. ? Rainer ? Am Dienstag, 1. April 2025, 12:14:34 CEST schrieben Sie: > What do you call close proximity ? This is a 4600 sq ft home on 3 levels > indoors. There are many smart bulbs outdoors as well. The devices are not > all close to each other. There is a fair amount i can turn off, but without > flipping breakers it's not likely go to much below 150 count. > > As I listed in my OP, the various devices operate in a variety of bands. > They should not interfere with devices in the other bands. My theory is > that some of them may have defective radios and interfere with bands they > aren't supposed to operate in. I suspect this especially because many of > the devices were bought used, not new. Some of the smartbulbs for example > don't have working BLE, only Wifi, even though they are supposed to have > both. This makes them difficult but not impossible to setup. I have been > removing these half working bulbs. But there could be other sources of EMI. > There are 2 EV chargers, 70 solar panels, 70 micro-inverters. Any of them > could have an effect on EMI. I am not an EE, and I just don't know to what > degree and at what distance. I thought a tool like the tinySA could help > map where interference might be coming from location wise at least , if not > device wise. > > > |
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Wow. Just wow. You have created what we call RF Hell. You will inevitably have a high rate of signal collisions. Also the combined signal level of all your transmitters and EMI generators across all bands will be very high which will create strong signal overload of the receivers, both in-band, harmonic, and fundamental overload. Receiver overload causes distortion and even more interfering mixing products are generated. With fundamental overload a strong signal out of band blows through the front end filtering of a receiver so yes, devices in different bands can interfere with each other. You are effectively trying to put a swimming pool into a 5 gallon bucket. If you do buy an SA you will also need some attenuators so you don't overload it as well.
Your only cure is to shut everything down, clean up the EMI/RFI sources, and rebuild the system with careful planning possibly with the aid of an RF consultant. Even then you will still have issues. My former employer sold coaches wireless systems to the NFL some years back and throughout the life of the system we sent engineers to the Super Bowl every year to babysit the radios and manage interference. It was a job that I would not have wanted to do. On Mon, 31 Mar 2025 22:06:25 -0700 "madbrain via groups.io" <groups_dot_io@...> wrote: Here are some of the devices/bands I experience problems on. -- 73 -Jim NU0C |
开云体育Madbrain: ? You are living in a RF hell due to having way, way too many wireless devices. As an amateur radio operator and having deployed some large outdoor wifi networks (2000+ plus devices), I have to fight RF interference on an ongoing basis. Some comments: ?
? An EMI detector will be of little use as all it will tell you in the RF spectrum is saturated which you already know. Start cleaning up the RF environment. ? Hope this is helpful. ? Don ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of madbrain
Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2025 12:06 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [tinysa] Help ! Calling Ghostbusters. ? I have a large home on a hill in a fairly isolated peri-urban area, which I wouldn't expect to be subject to massive interference. However, I also have >500 electronic devices, either plugged-in, on battery or hardwired. Many of them wireless devices, and are experiencing intermittent connectivity problems, on all kinds of frequencies. I know that after living 15 years in this haunted house, I am long overdue for the purchase of an EMI detector. I am trying to figure out which to get, and how to use it. The tinySA Ultra seems like it might be up to the task, but I'm still not sure how I would proceed with the investigation. ? Here are some of the devices/bands I experience problems on. ? - Various frequencies - smartphones cell networks have never worked properly indoors with any operator, despite the coverage map. They work in some outdoor locations but not others. This is probably on the operators just lying through their teeth with their coverage maps, and not interference. But our current phones dance alternately between no signal, GSM, 2G, 4G, LTE, 5G. It's essentially impossible to make any cell calls and not have them drop. We have to use Wifi calling. ? - 2.4 GHz / 5 GHz Wifi devices have lots of problems, especially 2.4 GHz IoT devices. The 9 APs are Ubiquiti Unifi. Two of them are wired, 7 meshed. Many clients don't connect for a long time or at all, a bunch connect to very distant APs, some have elevated packet loss, and some have very high ping times - I have seen as high as 10 seconds. There are now about 300 total Wifi 2.4 GHz clients with the recent addition of 220 Philips Wiz bulb in the last few months. I don't currently have any 6 GHz APs (Wifi 6e/7). I have a couple 6e capable clients (one phone, one laptop). There are only 9 5 GHz clients in the house - two phones, two laptops, two Raspberry Pi 3B+ used as controllers for my 2 Carrier Infinity HVAC, and 3 Enphase solar gateways. ? - 1.9 GHz - Panasonic DECT 6.0. This generally works pretty well, but the handsets sometimes don't connect to the base when pressing "Talk", and needs to be put into OFF mode and back ON . Likely a device bug, but I have only seen it happen with distant handsets, and not the one in the room closest to the base, so I can't rule out interference completely. ? - 923 MHz : Yolink devices sometimes lose connectivity, especially distant ones. That's the case intermittently for the water leak sensor at the bottom of one of my water heaters, for instance. And the door and temperature sensor in my garage freezer. My other 12 Yolink devices work very well. But I'm not adding any more until they have a local hub. ? - 912 - 920 MHz : my 30 Z-Wave LR devices have many problems. Many nodes go "dead" frequently in Home Assistant/Z-Wave JS UI and randomly become unusable. Some are distant, but others not so far. I have switched every single LR device to non-LR so the devices don't lose signal altogether.? The traditional Z-Wave mesh seems to work much better (or not as bad, see below). This could be device bugs due to LR implementations still being relatively recent. ? - 908 MHz : Z-Wave non-LR devices often have very long reaction time as well. Again, I have seen 10 seconds response time, just like for Wifi devices. Unfortunately, there are also lots of outright transmission failures, especially when communicating with several devices consecutively, such to turn off all light switches in the house. Many switches don't turn off, and require a second attempt. Currently, there is a total of about 70 Z-Wave devices. ? - 433 MHz : Simplisafe v3 . I have one distant door sensor and keypad that randomly drop out of range of the base station. All 3 are stationary, and I don't quite understand why this happens. I could relocate the keypad, but can't relocate the door sensor. There are not many options for me to relocate the base that won't cause other devices to go out of range. I'm looking for some kind of wall or ceiling mount for the base station in order to improve this, but there is nothing available off the shelf. There are about 20 Simplisafe devices. I wonder if something else is interfering that could be moved./removed. ? If I had to sum it up, wireless signals just don't work reliably in my home overall. The only wireless signals that I don't believe ever failed are some Safeguard ERA-DCRX and ERA-VPRX doorbell transmitters that operate at 433 MHz. ? So, my questions are : ? 1) is the tinySA Ultra device suitable to pinpoint the source of all these wireless issues ? 2) is there any guide that I could read about how to proceed with the use of the device before purchasing it ? Preferably in written form, not video. 3) has anyone else previously been in my shoes, and been able to resolve most or all of these problems ? ? |
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This power cycling method is a good way to isolate the interference and determine if it is coming from your property or outside. I would also get a DSP Receiver such as:
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Even if you cannot locate the noise you have a radio to listen to. 73 Mike N2MS On 04/01/2025 4:22 AM EDT G8HUL via groups.io <g8hul@...> wrote: |
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On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 03:18 AM, G8HUL wrote:
Within radio range of each other.Could you please be more specific ? Do you mean within radio range on the frequency they are supposed to operate on, at their set transmission power, through all obstacles that might be present ? If so, it is not the case that all devices are within radio range.
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For example, it takes at least 4 APs to cover the indoors so that all 300 Wifi clients are able connect to Wifi. Many clients will still have low signal strength with just 4 APs. Outdoor clients have very marginal or no signal depending on AP placement. I used 6 APs for many years (5 NanoHD, 1 U6-Lite), but did not have any outdoor clients. I recently added 3 U6-LR. That has improved the coverage a lot. I am able to get all my Wifi devices to connect, but there are intermittent problems still with packet loss and disconnects, for some devices.
Only 2 of the APs are wired and the 7 others are meshed. They use two non-overlapping 80MHz non-DFS channels on the 5 GHz band for the backhaul. I have thought about wiring all the APs, but this will be expensive and unsightly as conduits would need to run outdoors for the Ethernet cables. I don't believe getting rid of the mesh backhaul would change much of anything given that 99% of the clients being 2.4 GHz IoT devices. The bandwidth utilization on the mesh backhaul is extremely low and is not the bottleneck Neither is the latency. However, because the APs are meshed, if I were to cut the power to some circuit breakers for testing purposes, the mesh would be broken and coverage would be reduced, unless all 9 APs were running on battery. Currently, only 2 of them are. ?
Distant Z-Wave devices that go through several walls, especially more than 3 walls, also cannot connect directly to the controller. The only way they are able to connect is due to the of Z-Wave where each plug-in or hardwired device acts as a repeater. Again, if I were to cut off circuit breakers, the Z-Wave mesh would be broken, and many devices would be permanently unreachable, as opposed to intermittently.
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On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 04:12 AM, Dave Daniel wrote:
How much metal is part of your home's costruction? Roof, exterior walls (metallized insulation, wire mesh under stucco, etc.), interior walls (are the studs wood or metal?), etc., etc.I don't know for sure, but this is built to California earthquake safety standards, and most of the materials are flexible, ie. wood. The studs are wood. The roof is composition asphalt shingle, not metal. There are 70 solar panels as I mentioned, but only the frames are metal, likely light aluminum. There are some large appliances with lots of metal. The kitchen is on the second floor, near the center of the property. Many of the wireless signals would have to pass through it. There is a 28 year old 48" Monogram fridge that came with the house and is still chugging along. I have been told by a repairman never to replace it, because it uses cheap, easily available analog parts, and the newer digital control units and less reliable with hard to find parts.? There is also a GE double oven.
There is a brick wall in the front of the house which I know interferes strongly with the Wifi signal for the 7 lightbulbs on the terrace. I moved an AP last week which improved the situation a lot, but there is still high packet loss - around 45% according to my smokeping data for the first 2 I just checked. I may need an outdoor AP to resolve this particular issue, unfortunately. It's a bit of a shame to dedicate an AP just for these 7 bulbs, and I don't currently own any outdoor rated model of AP.
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There are 4 chimneys with thick granite walls, large granite countertops on 2 floors, perhaps 1000sq ft of marble tiles on 3rd floor in the back of the house. The home theater downstairs has soundproof walls, but I'm not sure which materials are used for that. One of the two wired Wifi APs is in that room. APs in 2 adjacent rooms are still able to mesh with it with respectable signal strength.
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As others have rightly pointed out, your system is the very definition of RF Hell, but let me throw in my two cents.
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1) You have put too much faith in wifi. Too many devices, perhaps too many operating on 2.4 GHz, perhaps too much reliance on large bandwidth protocol selection, perhaps overlapping channels. For instance, why so many wifi light bulbs at the same location if you probably do not operate them independently? Use a single wifi switch (Such as Tapo or Meross) to control several standard LED bulbs at once (also cheaper to replace when they die).
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2) Probably too many sources of RFI, such as solar inverters, EV chargers, etc. Not much you can do about that, but a TinySA may indeed help you to identify the main culprits.
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3) Probably lots of intermodulation with so many RF sources mixing with one another on every wire mesh fence, every door hinge, every rusty bolt. Not much you can do about this, but it can definitely raise your background noise level. Again, a TinySA can help you to measure background noise levels. A total blackout measurement could provide you with a useful noise base level to compare against in the different frequency bands, but I do understand that may be easier said than done.
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Start by checking out the quality of your cell connection. If you were based in Europe, I would recommend you load your Android phone with an app called Network Cell Info. Don't know if they support USA frequency bands and protocols, but if they do, absolutely try it. It will tell you the truth about the actual cell service you are getting, carrier promises notwithstanding. If they don't serve your area well, look for something similar. Notice I said Android, because Apple severely restrict the capabilities of this type of app, so do not even bother with an iPhone. Pay special attention to signal levels (which will speak to their coverage) and signal to noise ratios, which will speak (to some degree) to your locally induced interference.
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As for the TinySA, it can do wonders for you in this application. I make my living as a professional engineer, I have one Tektronix top-of-the-line SA and one field level Rohde&Schwartz SA, and still I resort to my two TinySA's most of the time. The catch is that spectrum analyzers are tricky instrument to use effectively. You need to have a solid grasp what they do and how they do it before you can draw conclusions.
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So buy a TinySA, just make sure you buy from an authorized source (I believe it's stateside), and don't scrimp, get the Ultra version if for no other reason than the larger screen. Oh, and do it quick before tariffs hit you, LOL.
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Hope this helps.
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Is there interference around the ISM frequencies:
My Toshiba microwave oven interferes with the 2.4 GHz wifi. My manual mentions radio interference when in operation. Mike N2MS On 04/01/2025 4:53 AM EDT madbrain <groups_dot_io@...> wrote:Mike N2MS |
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On Wed, Apr 2, 2025 at 12:59 AM, AGA001 wrote:
The reason for the Wifi bulbs is not on/off control. If that were the case, I would indeed only be using smart relay switches. The Wiz bulbs allow dimming, setting brightness, color temperature, different colors, and have some neat dynamic color effects as well. These features cannot be controlled via a simple on/off relay smart switch, or even smart dimmer switch. Some software is needed to communicate with the bulbs, and the bulbs I'm using are controlled through Wifi. Philips provides a Wiz app for smartphones, but that's not what I'm using. I use Home Assistant with the Wiz integration.? Even though in practice, I only ever set the on/off status, color, etc. to the same value on all bulbs of a given circuit, that doesn't negate the need to talk to each bulb to set the parameters. I believe the bulbs support some form of IP multi-cast to lower the Wifi traffic. ?
The way I want to operate the bulbs is to use a smart switch as a scene controller. Specifically, I have Zooz ZEN76 Z-wave on/off switches. One of its features is that the relay can be disabled, which they call "smart bulb" mode, in which power is always supplied to the circuit. This might sound useless, but actually the switch can then be used as a scene controller, to issue commands based on the number of presses to the upper and lower paddles. You can program up to 5 commands on each paddle. However, some software is required to respond to the Z-Wave commands. It is Home assistant again. And when it receives these commands, it can then control the bulbs and change on/off status, brightness, color, etc. The biggest downside of this mode however is that if Wifi or Home assistant are down for any reason, the lights can't be controlled anymore, because there is no one to respond to the Z-wave controller commands, or to send Wifi commands to the bulbs. At least I have made sure that everything still operates even if the ISP is down - the router, AP and Home assistant all stay up, and even my phone stays connected to Wifi without internet so the HA app can still be used.
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I have done a proof of concept in my home theater with the smart bulb mode. It happens to be working reliably in that room right now. I think having those 21 bulbs on the network permanently, as opposed to turned on/off by a relay, helps with the reliability. I control the light from 4 different wall switches / scene controllers, as well as from Home assistant remote. But the best part is that I can also control them from my infrared ARRX18G. It sends an IR signal to an AtHom IR to Wifi receiver. Home assistant then processes the IR commands over IP, and controls the lights in the theater from the couch.
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However, things become problematic if I turn on all 220 bulbs in the house, especially if they all get turned on near simultaneously, which floods the Wifi network. Right now, I have about 30 smart switches that I could configure operate in smart bulb mode, and keep the corresponding Wifi lightbulbs on the network all the time. But there are 60 non-smart switches that can't do that. But they aren't dumb switches either - they are CA Title 24 vacancy switches that I put in 15 years ago to automatically turn off the lights after 30 minutes if there is no motion. Unfortunately, the vacancy feature can't be disabled, and thus it is impossible to keep all 220 Wifi bulbs on the network 100% of the time - only about one third of them.
Thank you ! The micro-inverters are all on the roof under the panels. Not sure if that changes things. But they can be turned off by breakers. ?
The 2 EV chargers are in the garage, plugged in to 14-50 outlets. I could easily unplug either or both of them to test for EMI.
How would I use tinySA to detect the interference when placing it near the EV chargers, for example ?
Thanks. I'm retired/disabled software engineer, and have got plenty of time to do the testing, if tinySA allows for it. But I need pointers on how to achieve this. No worry, I use Android. Walled gardens are not for me. There is no cell carrier that serves my area adequately. This was the case when we first toured the house before buying it 15 years ago, before there was any wireless device inside the house - be it Wifi, Z-Wave, DECT, alarm, etc. Unfortunately, the coverage has not improved. Until there is a law that forces a carrier to provide service here, I don't think it will. I used the FCC mobile app years ago to report on this. It ended up on an FCC map that I think reported 0.02 kbps for T-mobile at my address, slower than a V21 modem, but still slightly faster than the V23 upstream that was slower than my typing speed in the 1980s. I don't believe there is a point in pursuing cell interference. I can't find that particular FCC map online right now, but there is really no point for me in pursuing any interference related to cell signal, IMO. Thanks ! I'm trying to understand how to use it before purchase. The larger screen is definitely a must as I suffer from a rare form of maculopathy that affects near vision, among many other things. I also see from videos that the tinySA uses black backgrounds on many screens. Can this be changed ? My vision is much worse on dark color/black background. I know most scientific instruments use black backgrounds, and a white background would use more energy, but a high contrast/white background color scheme would be very helpful, as anything with a dark background is actually low contrast for me. ?
I would only buy the unit from an authorized source.
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By a few megaphones and place them around the house. Le mer. 2 avr. 2025, 21:45, madbrain via <groups_dot_io=[email protected]> a écrit?:
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Dan Heather
Jim Shorney
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