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Re: Another application example for the TinySA Ultra at >10GHz

 

On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 07:52 AM, Vitor Martins Augusto wrote:
Can it be that the modulation of the signal from the SGS 101 causes the strange behaviour on the TinySA Ultra?
Could, the ultra mode works best on narrow unmodulated signals. I do not have the tools to test above 6GHz
?
--
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
Re: Another application example for the TinySA Ultra at >10GHz

 

Here the same signal measured by the TinySA Ultra:
Re: Another application example for the TinySA Ultra at >10GHz

 

Eric,

I am confused.

I used my SMA 35-4400MHz device with my software and generated & measured the following signals:

Generated -> Measured
200 MHz -> 199.955 MHz
300 MHz -> 299.997 MHz
400 MHz -> 399.955 MHz
800 MHz -> 799.955 MHz
?
?1 GHz ->? 1.00000 GHz
?2 GHz ->? 2.00000 GHz
?3 GHz ->? 3.00001 GHz
?4 GHz ->? 4.00000 GHz
?
Using 3rd harmonic:
?5 GHz ->? 5.00000 GHz
?6 GHz ->? 6.00000 GHz
?7 GHz ->? 7.00000 GHz
?8 GHz ->? 8.00000 GHz
?9 GHz ->? 9.00000 GHz
10 GHz -> 10.00000 GHz
11 GHz -> 11.00000 GHz
12 GHz -> 12.00000 GHz

Measurements are on spot.

But then I measured the SGS 101 again and it is off as before.

Intreagued, I used a different field meter to measure the frequency of the signal generated by the SGS 101. Here a picture of a very narrow span, showing the type of signal the SGS 101 generates:



As in the previous measurement with the other field meter, the signal is only slightly off and I think it is due to the age of the SGS 101.

Then I measured a signal generated with my SMA 35-4440MHz device at 11.500 GHz:



The field meter measured 11.499GHz. Pretty accurate, at least for my purposes.
Again, note that these measurements on my field meters went through an LNB for downconversion from Ku-band into L-band.

At this point, I don't know why the TinySA Ultra has such a big frequency deviation when measuring the signal of the SGS 101, while measuring other signals perfectly fine.Can it be that the modulation of the signal from the SGS 101 causes the strange behaviour on the TinySA Ultra?

I noted some other inconsistencies when using huge spans like 4GHz to 12GHz. It seems the auto-level function or similar kicks in and doesn't work correctly. But right now, I assume this is probably me doning something wrong. I have had little to no time experimenting with the TinySA Ultra.

Kind regards,
Vitor
Re: Another application example for the TinySA Ultra at >10GHz

 

I own some professional measuring equipment for frequencies up to 28 GHz, including a couple of microwave RF generators. I return home on Tuesday and can check the harmonic frequency deviations on the TinySA ULTRA more closely.

Mike
Re: Another application example for the TinySA Ultra at >10GHz

 

Viror
Thanks.
The frequency difference you saw is 2.8%, that must also be visible at much lower frequencies. Can you try?
--
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
Re: New FW release: Improved defaults for touch calibration

 

Merry Christmas Erik!

de Tim? K4SHF


On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 4:10 AM Erik Kaashoek <erik@...> wrote:
New tinySA3 FW release
Version V1.4.7
Changes (thanks DiSlord)
- Improved defaults for the touch parameters so after FW update you still can use the touch to activate menu's
- Moved touch calibration points away from the corners of the screen.

If you have no problem with touch there is no need to upgrade to this release.
--
For more info on the tinySA go to

Re: Another application example for the TinySA Ultra at >10GHz

 

Hello Eric,

I did read the Wiki and I do know about TV modulation.

Anyway, here is a new picture showing Trace 1 as LIVE with SPUR REMOVAL diabled and Trace 2 as HOLD.with SPUR REMOVAL enabled:



As can be seen, with SPUR REMOVAL disabled, some additional signals become visible. However, only one is apparently an harmonic! This picture shows the spectrum with the SGS 101 switched off:



This is not a critizism at all, nor am I complaining.

Also, I did not carry out any calibration, yet (but other measurments are correct frequency-wise, for example the 300MHz test signal from my HP8594E).

Let me know if you want me to test something else.

Regards,
Vitor
Re: New ULTRA FW release: Added SD load/store trace table and SD load trace

 

Merry Christmas Erik
I hope to have my new ultra this week or?next week, as it is now in the UK
Thanks Dave 2E0DMB

On Sun, 25 Dec 2022, 12:49 Erik Kaashoek, <erik@...> wrote:
New ULTRA FW release
Version V1.4-8
Changes:
- Added SD load/store trace table
- Add SD load trace, this sets the span to the loaded trace and enables the trace

These new functions have seen only limited testing. Hope there are not too many bugs.
--
For more info on the tinySA go to

New ULTRA FW release: Added SD load/store trace table and SD load trace

 

New ULTRA FW release
Version V1.4-8
Changes:
- Added SD load/store trace table
- Add SD load trace, this sets the span to the loaded trace and enables the trace

These new functions have seen only limited testing. Hope there are not too many bugs.
--
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
Re: Another application example for the TinySA Ultra at >10GHz

 

On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 04:10 AM, Vitor Martins Augusto wrote:
It seems, however, that the TinySA Ultra has some serious frequency deviations: instead of 11.288GHz, the signal is shown at 10.4139GHz.
Vitor,
A TV modulation is typical a broadband signal and as you know (you did read the wiki page on Ultra mode?) this could create some problems.
Can you disable CONFIG/SPUR REMOVAL and try again what you see? After disabling you should see the 11.288GHz signal at multiple frequencies, of which, hopefully, one is 11.288GHz
Can you post a screen photo with spur removal disabled for educational purposes?
?
--
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
Another application example for the TinySA Ultra at >10GHz

 

Eric asked about use cases for frequecies >10GHz.

Well, here is mine! I am, among other things, a satellite DXer and interested in satellite TV reception.

In order to get fringe reception going and to maintain my dishes and equipment, I own not one, but two "Schwaiger SAT-Pr¨¹fgenerator SPG 101".

These small devices were used back in the analogue satellite receptions days to simply test if the LNB is working! The device emits a composite video test image composed of a simple grid at exactly 11.288 GHz.

If you could receive the test image with your analogue receiver, it meant that the LNB was OK and you had a fault somewhere else or misaligned dish.

With the TinySA Ultra I can now test if the SPG 101 iitself is working!



It seems, however, that the TinySA Ultra has some serious frequency deviations: instead of 11.288GHz, the signal is shown at 10.4139GHz. Not a big issue for me - I am happy to be able to "see" what is going on at all!

Anyway, I checked with a field meter, to make sure if the SPG 101 was not off:



The meter puts the centre frequency at 11.2815GHz, which seems close enough for me, considering the age of the SGS 101.

As a side note, I modified my second SGS 101 and added a composite video input. The IC used inside the device has actually the option to either generate a test pattern (as used by the SGS 101) or to upconvert a composite video signal. This allows me to broadcast composite video at 11GHz at a distance of around 1-2m.

So yes, it is great that the TinySA Ultra ventures into this frequency range, even if it not able to really measure anything. The mere possibility to just be able to see what is going on is amazing for such a cheap device.

I presented the SGS 101 on my blog in the past, for those interested:




Cheers,
Vitor
Re: Measure bandpass filter

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Roger

Your calculation is not fully correct as when sung a span of 120MHz (118MHz) your noise power is directed to the mixer via the 800MHz low pass filter so the math is 10*log(800E06) = -88 + 89= +1 dBm and on the brink to be too high. Using Ultra the bandwidth it is even higher

Kind regards

Kurt

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Roger Need via groups.io
Sendt: 24. december 2022 22:25
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [tinysa] Measure bandpass filter

?

Follow up to my last post.? Below is a s21 plot of a Para Dynamics low pass TX filter that was done using a NanoVNA-H4.




One method to measure a filter with a tinySA is to use a Noise Generator (NG) but one has to be careful that the NG output is not too high because it might damage the tinySA.? I have a lab NG that outputs 100 mV RMS into a 50 ohm load? (-6.9 dBm) when set to a specific noise bandwidth. In the plot below? the tinySA measures -88 dBm/Hz with the trace marker set to Noise.? With 120 MHz BW the total noise power is 10*log(120E06) = -88 + 81= -7 dBm which is within the safe limit of the tinySA



There is another method to verify the total noise power with the tinySA and is recommended when the noise spectrum is not reasonably flat. ? The technique requires use of the Channel Power measurement tool.? Below a span of 114 MHz. divided into 3 bands yields measurements of -12.1, -13.2 and -13.8 dBm.? Added together on? power basis this is a total of -8.2 dBm which is very close to the calculations above.?




In the plot below the span is set from 2 MHz. to 120 Mhz. and the Trace Averaging is turned on to get a smooth trace. Note that the power measured by marker 1 is the total power measured with a resolution bandwidth of 600 kHz. The noise has a slight rolloff so the Trace Normalize is activated prior to measuring the filter.?




Next we insert the filter and make the response measurement.? It is clearly not showing the maximum attenuation of the filter that was obtained with the NanoVNA.? There is not enough dynamic range and increasing the NG level has risks of damage to the tinySA.




However if one has a RF or AWG signal generator with sweep capability there is a solution that can be used when the SA does not have a tracking generator.?? For this test a Siglent 2122x is set to sweep over the frequency range of 2 MHz to 120 MHz over 120 seconds.? This is slow enough that the tinySA can make a measurement in Max Hold mode.? After a sweep the normalize function is used to adjust for amplitude vs frequency variation of the generator.?? Then the filter is inserted and the measurement made (reset of Max Hold is required.) The filter measurement is much better and similar to that obtained with the NanoVNA.




Summary - These filter measurements were made with a tinySA Ultra but also applies to the tinySA.? Filter measurement is easier with a NanoVNA? but good results can be obtained with a tinySA using a noise or signal generator in swept frequency mode.

Roger
Re: Interfacing the TinySA Ultra

 

Thanks!

That fixed the issue. The software is already working with the TinySA Ultra - some extra functionality needs to be implemented, but overall the TinySA Ultra rocks!



Regards,
Vitor
Re: Interfacing the TinySA Ultra

 

/g/tinysa/message/8521
--
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
Interfacing the TinySA Ultra

 

Hello,

Merry Chrismas everyone!

I finally was allowed to open my Christmas present: the brand new TinySA Ultra.

Got up early and while eveybody is still asleep, I adapted my "VMA Simple Spectrum Analyser for TinySA" software for the TinySA Ultra.

But I noticed that the formula to calculate the amplitude for each sample must have changed! While the software shows the correct values for theTinySA, it shows the the spectrum shifted at about 50dB for the TinySA Ultra.

The formula I am using is: dB = (byte1 + byte2 * 256) / 32 - 128)

Any idea what the reason could be or what new formula has to be used to convert each two bytes into the correct amplitude value for the TinySA Ultra? I have both devices configure to dBm.

Thanks,
Vitor
New FW release: Improved defaults for touch calibration

 

New tinySA3 FW release
Version V1.4.7
Changes (thanks DiSlord)
- Improved defaults for the touch parameters so after FW update you still can use the touch to activate menu's
- Moved touch calibration points away from the corners of the screen.

If you have no problem with touch there is no need to upgrade to this release.
--
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
Re: Ultra frequency correction

 

Missing link;



Cheers.
Re: Ultra frequency correction

 

Sorry Erik, video removed and replaced according your recommendations! ( 16 views )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVNtAP3zGLc

My mistake, i thought it was public domain since Imsai G has these details in his clip so i also deleted the reference to his video ( 11k views ), hope this helps.

Fantastic product though and thanks for all the hard and ongoing work!

cheers; Max
Re: tinySA V1.4 Menu not working correctly

 

Recalibrate touch, use leveler buttons for enter in menu
Push leveler for enter in menu
after use left/right and push go
CONFIG->TOUCH->TOUCH CAL

And touch on * as say on screen
Re: Ultra frequency correction

 

Max,
Would it be possible NOT to show the ultra unlock code in a public video?
I really would like people to visit the wiki ultra page and read the disclaimers about the limitations of the ultra on that page otherwise they may be disappointed
If people do not read this page they may come here and start to complain about something, I have to send them to that page anyway.
--
For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/
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