A possible probpem with the Noramlize and Stor subtract function
Hi Erik When using the DISPLAY NORMALIZE the overflow warning is enabled and will continuously flash red color. Same applies for When storing a trace and the use the Subtract mode. It is a matter of internal calculation which has no bearing on the actual usage as such. Kind regards Kurt
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On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 01:45 PM, Stephen Laurence wrote: There was an Arduino based 0-30mhz signal generator briefly discussed on the Homebrew group here a while ago. I wonder if any of the design wizards who have done so much to support the beginner engineer/ amateur enthusiast had ever considered a signal generator in the tinysa /nanovna class? A signal range up to 100mhz or so, a signal output from 1v down to 1 microvolt and of necessity, minimal signal leakage outside the instrument. I imagine various modulation types and a sweep function could be included but are not essential. ============================= Steve, ? The LOW output signal generator mode of the tinySA meets many of your requirements. ?? Low output mode spec:
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- Sinus output with harmonics below -40dB of fundamental
- Output frequency range from 100kHz to 350MHz
- Output level selectable in 1dB steps between -76dBm and -6dBm
- Optional AM, narrow FM and wide FM modulation or slow sweep over selectable frequency span
- Optional output level sweep over maximum the entire output level range
? Though not a self contained solution, adding an external 50ohm step attenuator and rf amplifier will cover your high and low level requirements.? Both frequency and level sweep features are a surprise in this class instrument.? Members of my ham club have purchased two tinySA's just so they could dedicate one as a programmable rf signal generator (Yes, both manual and USB programmable control are available).? Terrific performance to cost ratio at cost of $100 for two units before shipping and taxes. See this page for additional information on the tinSA LOW output mode: ?  ? ?There is also a HIGH output mode (240-960MHz) but it does not have the filtering and programmable attenuation of the LOW output mode. It has a square wave output versus the sinus output of the LOW output mode, and is basically a throw-in feature. If you add your own external filtering and step attenuator it increases the utility of the HIGH output mode. - Herb ? ? ?
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On 28 Aug 2020, at 20:20, Kurt Poulsen < kurt@...> wrote: Hi Erik Thank you very much for this info. I will print this info and give I a trial. Thank you once again Indeed it is a complex instrument, and Auto is indeed a huge benefit to the novice and eventhe ?more experienced users Kind regards Kurt ? ? ? On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 06:38 AM, Kurt Poulsen wrote: The problem I had was that is did not realize the Ref level and level/division is fixed and frozen by a factor of 10 and no other ratio can be chosen.
Its a bit more complex.
Normally linear modes work in auto reflevel/scale mode where the bottom of the screen is at zero and the reflevel is 10*scale. This because you can not have negative values in linear scale.
When you change the scale the reflevel setting moves to manual!!!!!
You can set the scale and reflevel to anything as long as the bottom of the screen is zero or larger.
If you set reflevel back to automatic it works with the selected scale and the reflevel can only be a multiple of the scale AFTER the first sweep in auto reflevel mode.
So if the scale is very small (as can be in a linear scale) it will take many sweeps before the signal can become visible again. This is something I may improve in the future. If all signals are off screen and reflevel is automatic I jump after one sweep to a visible signal.
This is all kind of complex but I did not know how to do it better. Any suggestions?
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There was an Arduino based 0-30mhz signal generator briefly discussed on the Homebrew group here a while ago.
I wonder if any of the design wizards who have done so much to support the beginner engineer/ amateur enthusiast had ever considered a signal generator in the tinysa /nanovna class?
A signal range up to 100mhz or so, a signal output from 1v down to 1 microvolt and of necessity, minimal signal leakage outside the instrument. I imagine various modulation types and a sweep function could be included but are not essential.
The ability to generate tiny amplitude signals is useful for the amateur communications enthusiast ( and professional too) but my old boatanchor generator is so cumbersome and an awful system to phase-lock the frequency every 25khz made it a pain. The output attenuators was fantastic though, down to 0.1uv.
With the addition of a tiny oscilloscope and a small digital multimeter, I could have a complete lab in my pocket. ?The soldering iron might (literally) burn a hole in my pocket, though.
Steve L. G7PSZ
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Hi Erik Thank you very much for this info. I will print this info and give I a trial. Thank you once again Indeed it is a complex instrument, and Auto is indeed a huge benefit to the novice and eventhe ?more experienced users Kind regards Kurt ? ? ? On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 06:38 AM, Kurt Poulsen wrote: The problem I had was that is did not realize the Ref level and level/division is fixed and frozen by a factor of 10 and no other ratio can be chosen.
Its a bit more complex.
Normally linear modes work in auto reflevel/scale mode where the bottom of the screen is at zero and the reflevel is 10*scale. This because you can not have negative values in linear scale.
When you change the scale the reflevel setting moves to manual!!!!!
You can set the scale and reflevel to anything as long as the bottom of the screen is zero or larger.
If you set reflevel back to automatic it works with the selected scale and the reflevel can only be a multiple of the scale AFTER the first sweep in auto reflevel mode.
So if the scale is very small (as can be in a linear scale) it will take many sweeps before the signal can become visible again. This is something I may improve in the future. If all signals are off screen and reflevel is automatic I jump after one sweep to a visible signal.
This is all kind of complex but I did not know how to do it better. Any suggestions?
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On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 06:38 AM, Kurt Poulsen wrote:
The problem I had was that is did not realize the Ref level and level/division is fixed and frozen by a factor of 10 and no other ratio can be chosen.
Its a bit more complex. Normally linear modes work in auto reflevel/scale mode where the bottom of the screen is at zero and the reflevel is 10*scale. This because you can not have negative values in linear scale. When you change the scale the reflevel setting moves to manual!!!!! You can set the scale and reflevel to anything as long as the bottom of the screen is zero or larger. If you set reflevel back to automatic it works with the selected scale and the reflevel can only be a multiple of the scale AFTER the first sweep in auto reflevel mode. So if the scale is very small (as can be in a linear scale) it will take many sweeps before the signal can become visible again. This is something I may improve in the future. If all signals are off screen and reflevel is automatic I jump after one sweep to a visible signal. This is all kind of complex but I did not know how to do it better. Any suggestions?
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Perfect!? I see it now and it is working perfectly.? Thank you!
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Hi Erik and Herb Thank you both for the info, which I was aware of. The problem I had was that is did not realize the Ref level and level/division is fixed and frozen by a factor of 10 and no other ratio can be chosen. That is a vital info to convey for a noval user and that I will include in my video clip on the linear Unit modes Kind regards Kurt ? ? On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 06:53 PM, hwalker wrote: Both the reference level and and attenuation can only be set in discrete steps of 1, 2 , 5, 10 and they interact to maintain a vertical scaling of 10 divisions.
There is a bug that causes strange auto reflevel behavior when in linear mode and changing the scale from small to a larger value. E.g. from 2 to 10. This causes the reflevel to reposition after one sweep after changing the scale to try to maintain a multiple of the scale
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Peak hold is under the CALC menu
CALC moved from the LEVEL menu to the DISPLAY menu in the latest FW
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Yes.
You can use peak hold
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I’m testing an enclosure and need to place the tinySA inside and test received signal strength of a fundamental. ?I would think I can enter it into a peak hold type setting for when I can get it out of the enclosure. ?Is it there and I am just missing it?
Thanks in advance!
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On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 06:53 PM, hwalker wrote:
Both the reference level and and attenuation can only be set in discrete steps of 1, 2 , 5, 10 and they interact to maintain a vertical scaling of 10 divisions.
There is a bug that causes strange auto reflevel behavior when in linear mode and changing the scale from small to a larger value. E.g. from 2 to 10. This causes the reflevel to reposition after one sweep after changing the scale to try to maintain a multiple of the scale
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On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 03:37 PM, Kurt Poulsen wrote:
... I am producing videoclips right now and I am afraid the Unit V and W are corrupted one way or the other. There are some weird interactions so when changing level per division the ref level changes.
Kurt, ? ?From the beta testing phase, I seem to recall that for V and W units Erik cautioned the following: ? ?1. The units are linear so measurements are best performed in the time domain (zero-span). ? ?2. Both the reference level and and attenuation can only be set in discrete steps of 1, 2 , 5, 10 and they interact to maintain a vertical scaling of 10 divisions.? This can sometimes make it difficult to get a waveform positioned in the display exactly where you want it. ? ?The conversions with reference to a 50Ohm system were correct the last time I checked - unless something has changed recently. I forgot to take notes when Erik was explaining the exact workings, so I'm sure he'll correct me if I miss-spoke.?? ? ? - Herb
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Hi Erik Yuo are wellcome ? I am producing videoclips right now and I am afraid the Unit V and W are corrupted one way or the other. There are some weird interactions so when changing level per division the ref level changes. Maybe I have forgotten how to do, or I am too tired at this time of the night to figure it out… so Good night Kind regards Kurt ? ? ? This marker ops behavior is copied from the nanoVNA, I actually never understood how to use it, except for the "CENTER" ops.
Glad you guys helped me understand..... ?
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This marker ops behavior is copied from the nanoVNA, I actually never understood how to use it, except for the "CENTER" ops.
Glad you guys helped me understand.....
?
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On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 06:13 AM, Kurt Poulsen wrote:
Hi Herb
- Span is described in the WiKi as “Keep the Center frequency but set the span to the offset of the active marker” It is the offset relative the center frequency. If there is two tracking markers then these marker frequencies are set as start and stop frequencies.
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? Thanks Kurt, ? ? I read the wiki but I misinterpreted the meaning of "span to the offset".? With two markers displayed it makes sense and is very useful. ? ? - With two markers displayed, selecting Marker OPS->Span will span the start and end frequency range to the lower and higher frequencies of those two markers, respectively. ? ?- Herb
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On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 08:10 AM, Kurt Poulsen wrote:
I might do a English version or a Video which I can dub in different texted and spoken languages.
I hope you do! ? ? ? larry
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Hi Herb - Span is described in the WiKi as “Keep the Center frequency but set the span to the offset of the active marker” It is the offset relative the center frequency. If there is two tracking markers then these marker frequencies are set as start and stop frequencies.
Kind regards Kurt ? ? On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 01:48 PM, Kurt Poulsen wrote: Hi Erik I have just written a 30 page document on the TinySA with 95 illustrations for the HAM magazine OZ and in this connection used the markers a great deal. They work excellent (using latest firmware) However MARKER OPS is killing me I have not yet found the “secret” behind the idea as it is screwing up the display setting ? I need to spend more time ? ?
Kurt,
? I'm sure the article will be well received - as is generally the case with your technical publications.? Here's what I have found out about marker ops.
1.? Marker OPS -> Center:? This operation is the one I use most often and is probably the one you are also familiar with.? It makes the current active marker frequency the display center frequency.? I primarily use it to make the active marker frequency the center frequency and then zoom in on it using Frequency->Span button.
2.? Marker OPS -> Start: This operation makes the current active marker frequency the display start frequency.? It took me a while to figure out a good use case for this.? If the active marker is a tracking marker it will move that frequency to the first display point and track the next highest signal to the right.?
3. Marker OPS -> Stop: This operation makes the current active marker frequency the display stop frequency.? For me it has a similar use case as marker->stop.? If the active marker is a tracking marker it will move that frequency to the last display point and track the next highest signal to the left.
4.??Marker OPS -> Span: I expected this operation to change the SPAN setting relative to the current active marker frequency.?I haven't figured out what that relationship is.??
- Herb
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Hi Herb Great thank you, now I understand see the possibilities If I figure out the span I will let you know ? Kind regards Kurt ? ? On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 01:48 PM, Kurt Poulsen wrote: Hi Erik I have just written a 30 page document on the TinySA with 95 illustrations for the HAM magazine OZ and in this connection used the markers a great deal. They work excellent (using latest firmware) However MARKER OPS is killing me I have not yet found the “secret” behind the idea as it is screwing up the display setting ? I need to spend more time ? ?
Kurt,
? I'm sure the article will be well received - as is generally the case with your technical publications.? Here's what I have found out about marker ops.
1.? Marker OPS -> Center:? This operation is the one I use most often and is probably the one you are also familiar with.? It makes the current active marker frequency the display center frequency.? I primarily use it to make the active marker frequency the center frequency and then zoom in on it using Frequency->Span button.
2.? Marker OPS -> Start: This operation makes the current active marker frequency the display start frequency.? It took me a while to figure out a good use case for this.? If the active marker is a tracking marker it will move that frequency to the first display point and track the next highest signal to the right.?
3. Marker OPS -> Stop: This operation makes the current active marker frequency the display stop frequency.? For me it has a similar use case as marker->stop.? If the active marker is a tracking marker it will move that frequency to the last display point and track the next highest signal to the left.
4.??Marker OPS -> Span: I expected this operation to change the SPAN setting relative to the current active marker frequency.?I haven't figured out what that relationship is.??
- Herb
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Hi Karl Sorry, that is because he might have used the subject line then my mail rules put it in the TinySA folder Well, the answer was The OZ is the official Danish Ham magazine like the QST is in your country. My article is in Danish and that language is when spoken called a “throat disease” ?
I might do a English version or a Video which I can dub in different texted and spoken languages.
I am presenting the TinySA at a seminar on Sunday arranged by the Dansk HAM organization EDR and am cresting some power point and video’s so I have then some material to “glue” together in a public presentation. So wait and see what I can figure out to release. Kind regards Kurt ? ? ? Kurt,
you may have replied to Joe, but not as part of this thread. ;)
Karl Heinz - K5KHK?
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Kurt Poulsen
Hoshnasi