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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
You do realise that you are looking for the agc voltage to reduce as the signal level increases??
So the procedure is to set the generator level so that you see a slight decrease in the agc voltage on the multi-meter, then zero beat, and then tune the coils for MINIUM agc voltage (ie bigger signal)??? 73 Jeff G8HUL ________________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of enriqueeeeee2001 via groups.io <enriqueeeeee2001@...> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2025 18:47 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [tinysa] TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator I have been this evening trying with the 209 and the TinySA; same results even with a different voltmeter. S-meter is deflected, I have tested with different output levels, but voltmeter is always stuck no movement at all. I have tweaked the coils. Generatos is working as it should I can heard the tone.? Some photos are attached. Do not know what to do or that is happening.?[X][X][X][X] |
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
I have been this evening trying with the 209 and the TinySA; same results even with a different voltmeter.
S-meter is deflected, I have tested with different output levels, but voltmeter is always stuck no movement at all. I have tweaked the coils. Generatos is working as it should I can heard the tone.? Some photos are attached. Do not know what to do or that is happening.
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýIf I'm not wrong I haven't yet read that the HP209A has a 600 Ohm output impedance. But if you are working with flying wires signal levels are undefinided and not so important.? Inviato dal mio Galaxy -------- Messaggio originale -------- Da: "Bob Ecclestone via groups.io" <becclest@...> Data: 23/05/25 15:50 (GMT+01:00) Oggetto: Re: [tinysa] TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator Bob...VK2ZRE On 23/05/2025 11:24 pm, G8HUL via groups.io wrote: > The 209A should do 50kHz with no problem! > Is 50kHz audio or rf? Depends on your point of view, or whether you are a bat or not. (:-)) > > 73 > Jeff G8HUL > > ________________________________________ > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of David AD4TJ via groups.io <ad4tj@...> > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2025 13:35 > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [tinysa] TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator > > Coming in late to this subject. The 209A is an AUDIO Oscillator; the Ultra is an RF device. So the Ultra won't see any indication. Is this not correct? David AD4TJOn Friday, May 23, 2025 at 06:58:19 AM EDT, Donald Kirk via groups.io <wd8dsb@...> wrote: As Jeff mentioned it sure sounds like the output level of your HP209A was set too high, whereas you saw nothing when you used the TinySA Ultra. ?I did a Quick Look in the manual you attached and see no mention on what signal level you should be injecting with the signal generator (but maybe I just missed that information) so it¡¯s very possible you injected too small of a signal with the TinySA Ultra, and too large of a signal with the HP208A.What signal level do you think you need to inject for your test, this is important information.?Don > > > > > |
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
The HP209A frequency range is 10Hz-2MHz. So 50KHz is within its range.
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Bob...VK2ZRE On 23/05/2025 11:24 pm, G8HUL via groups.io wrote:
The 209A should do 50kHz with no problem! |
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
Hi David,
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We are talking about using the TinySA signal generator output. ?When talking about a signal generator it¡¯s a little misleading calling something an Audio generator vs an RF generator as any alternating voltage (really any varying voltage) regardless of frequency applied to a piece of wire (antenna) will produce electromagnetic waves (not sound waves) and therefore RF signals at whatever frequency is applied and this can be very low frequencies that you would typically call audio frequencies (typically 20KHz and below can be heard by the human ear as an example when you produce a sound wave by vibrating air particles). ?A great example of where a typical audio frequency can also be an RF frequency are frequencies that submarines use to communicate when under the water. ?Some systems operate at approximately 70 or 80 Hz as an example but they are not vibrating air molecules to produce sound waves, they are generating current in their antennas at a frequency of 70 or 80 Hz to generate electromagnetic waves which we would call extremely low frequency RF.
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Example: A signal generator operating at 1000 Hz connected to a speaker will produce sound waves that you can hear with your ear but you could also connect that same 1000 Hz signal generator output to an antenna to produce electromagnetic waves (hence an RF signal).
Sorry for my quick and somewhat unscientific explanations but hopefully it clears things up for you.
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Don |
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
The 209A should do 50kHz with no problem!
Is 50kHz audio or rf? Depends on your point of view, or whether you are a bat or not. (:-)) 73 Jeff G8HUL ________________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of David AD4TJ via groups.io <ad4tj@...> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2025 13:35 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [tinysa] TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator Coming in late to this subject. The 209A is an AUDIO Oscillator; the Ultra is an RF device. So the Ultra won't see any indication. Is this not correct? David AD4TJOn Friday, May 23, 2025 at 06:58:19 AM EDT, Donald Kirk via groups.io <wd8dsb@...> wrote: As Jeff mentioned it sure sounds like the output level of your HP209A was set too high, whereas you saw nothing when you used the TinySA Ultra. ?I did a Quick Look in the manual you attached and see no mention on what signal level you should be injecting with the signal generator (but maybe I just missed that information) so it¡¯s very possible you injected too small of a signal with the TinySA Ultra, and too large of a signal with the HP208A.What signal level do you think you need to inject for your test, this is important information.?Don |
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
Of course you won't see any movement if the meter is full scale, you must reduce the input level until the S meter is only slightly showing a reading and THEN adjust the coils.
73 Jeff G8HUL ________________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of enriqueeeeee2001 via groups.io <enriqueeeeee2001@...> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2025 12:49 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [tinysa] TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator Using the HP209A S-meter was top scale and the voltmeter measuring 1,41 volts too; and no movement when tweaking the coils. I will try to reduce the output level of the HP209A with a toggle attenuator. |
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
Coming in late to this subject. The 209A is an AUDIO Oscillator; the Ultra is an RF device. So the Ultra won't see any indication. Is this not correct? David AD4TJ On Friday, May 23, 2025 at 06:58:19 AM EDT, Donald Kirk via groups.io <wd8dsb@...> wrote: As Jeff mentioned it sure sounds like the output level of your HP209A was set too high, whereas you saw nothing when you used the TinySA Ultra. ?I did a Quick Look in the manual you attached and see no mention on what signal level you should be injecting with the signal generator (but maybe I just missed that information) so it¡¯s very possible you injected too small of a signal with the TinySA Ultra, and too large of a signal with the HP208A. What signal level do you think you need to inject for your test, this is important information. ? Don |
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
You can also try increasing the TinySA Ultra output to -22 dBM versus the -48.1 dBm level you showed in your setup (but that might still not be high enough for your needs). ?-22 dBm is the largest output signal you can generate at 50 KHz on the TinySA Ultra.
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Don |
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
Was the S meter and external voltmeter stuck at the same positions when using the TinySA Ultra? ?If not then you need to reduce the output level of the HP209A until they are no longer ¡°stuck¡±.
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I also just tested my TinySA Ultra into a 50 ohm load at 50 KHz and I measured -21 dBm when the TinySA Ultra was set to -22 dBm output so the TinySA Ultra signal generator output appears to work well at 50 KHz.
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Don |
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
I just looked in the manual again and it just tells you to adjust the signal level amplitude of the signal generator to a level that just gives you slight AVC deflection. ?Therefore you need to make sure you adjust the signal generator level appropriately (not too much and not too little).
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Bottom line for this TinySA Ultra discussion is that your TinySA Ultra is working correctly.
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Good Luck.
Don |
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
As Jeff mentioned it sure sounds like the output level of your HP209A was set too high, whereas you saw nothing when you used the TinySA Ultra. ?I did a Quick Look in the manual you attached and see no mention on what signal level you should be injecting with the signal generator (but maybe I just missed that information) so it¡¯s very possible you injected too small of a signal with the TinySA Ultra, and too large of a signal with the HP208A.
What signal level do you think you need to inject for your test, this is important information. ?
Don |
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
Surely if the S meter goes full scale then the generator o/p is too high, or are you saying it goes full scale with the generator off??
Jeff G8HUL ________________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of enriqueeeeee2001 via groups.io <enriqueeeeee2001@...> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2025 10:00 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [tinysa] TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator What a coincidence! Yesterday evening I took borrowed an HP 209A and made a try , this time the S-meter goes to the end of scale but can be made nothing ; I tweaked the coils but no a significant movement.Yes, I use a DC blocker with the TinySA.?I am thinking in selling the Drakes I am not willing to buy more measurement instruments, multimeters , signals generator, frequencymeter, probes....? and no get any results. |
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Re: TinySA Ultra 50 Khz as a signal generator
What a coincidence! Yesterday evening I took borrowed an HP 209A and made a try , this time the S-meter goes to the end of scale but can be made nothing ; I tweaked the coils but no a significant movement.
Yes, I use a DC blocker with the TinySA.
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I am thinking in selling the Drakes I am not willing to buy more measurement instruments, multimeters , signals generator, frequencymeter, probes....? and no get any results. |
John Cunliffe W7ZQ
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