Re: TinySA or ULTRA Antennas
Eric, I have just been "criticised" (yes, this afternoon) on another group for long posts due to EXPLAINING the reason(s) behind my answer(s).? Just supplying the answer teaches nothing.? The reason behind the answer teaches a bit of engineering and possibly physics.? I'll stick with my "longer" explanations in an effort to help others in expanding their knowledge.? Just me.........
Dave - W?LEV?
Dave,
It would help if you focus on helping and base your replies on a positive understanding of the question.
?
Suggestions and discussions about a good antenna for a specific application is welcome in this group.
But please do not stear the discussion away from tinySA related contant
?
If you think someone is making a wrong statement it would be appreciated if you ask clarification questions, just in case you misunderstood something
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to
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Re: TinySA or ULTRA Antennas
Dave,
It would help if you focus on helping and base your replies on a positive understanding of the question.
?
Suggestions and discussions about a good antenna for a specific application is welcome in this group.
But please do not stear the discussion away from tinySA related contant
?
If you think someone is making a wrong statement it would be appreciated if you ask clarification questions, just in case you misunderstood something
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to
|
Re: TinySA or ULTRA Antennas
QUOTE (Mike):?
What does the signal of a 1/32 wave look like on our TinySA or Ultra at 2.4GHz?
What is meant by "a 1/32 wave"?? 1/32 of 2.8 GHz would be 87.5 MHz.? To what are you referring?
Dave - W?LEV ?
Hi Group,
I agree with the suggestion to get away from the 'ham' topics, however,
RF antennas from all aspects of transmitting or receiving will play a
part in both disciplines. That said, shouldn't we discuss what we find
with various antenna designs, both pro and con? The only suggestion
would be to only talk about what works and what may not and in that
light stay away from+0J-,* math. We can leave the math for our handy
dandy VNA.
Example: What does the signal of a 1/32 wave look like on our TinySA or
Ultra at 2.4GHz?
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
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Re: TinySA or ULTRA Antennas
But one can not properly address antenna impedance without considering both the real and complex portions of those impedance measurements made with the NanoVNA.? Without the ¡À jX term to the impedance, one may as well just use a standard SWR meter - a totally scalar measurement.? Further, without considering the ¡À j X term of the impedance, you're missing a whole bunch of the power of vector analysis.? And.....that would be the NANOVNA.? A little bit of math won't hurt anyone.? We're not speaking calculus or General Relativity, here!
Dave - W?LEV
Hi Group,
I agree with the suggestion to get away from the 'ham' topics, however,
RF antennas from all aspects of transmitting or receiving will play a
part in both disciplines. That said, shouldn't we discuss what we find
with various antenna designs, both pro and con? The only suggestion
would be to only talk about what works and what may not and in that
light stay away from+0J-,* math. We can leave the math for our handy
dandy VNA.
Example: What does the signal of a 1/32 wave look like on our TinySA or
Ultra at 2.4GHz?
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
|
Hi Group,
I agree with the suggestion to get away from the 'ham' topics, however, RF antennas from all aspects of transmitting or receiving will play a part in both disciplines. That said, shouldn't we discuss what we find with various antenna designs, both pro and con? The only suggestion would be to only talk about what works and what may not and in that light stay away from+0J-,* math. We can leave the math for our handy dandy VNA.
Example: What does the signal of a 1/32 wave look like on our TinySA or Ultra at 2.4GHz?
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
|
Look at tinysa.org for the settings it is not as easy as just plugging in the headphones and expect audio.
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Just to let you all know how happy I'm with my TinySA Ultra.
Hello all, Yesterday i got a offer for RIGOL DSA815-TG (used 8 years old) for euro 675,00 (retail aprx euro 1300) So basically a good deal and before I got my TinySA Ultra (and NanoVNA/LiteVNA) it was on the top of my "I want that in my shack" list. The screen is bigger 8" vs 4", it has physical buttons for operating vs. touchscreen, build in tracking generator which the TinySAUltra doesn't etc,? But after comparing it with the specs for PhaseNoise and DNAL TinySAUlta
Phase noise at 30MHz and 10kHz offset ? ?-92dBc/Hz
Phase noise at 30MHz and 100kHz offset ? ?-108dBc/Hz
DNAL -153dBm/Hz (LNA Off) / -169dBm/Hz (LNA On) ?(DANL degrading in ultra mode 10dB above 2.5GHz, 25dB above 5.3GHz)
RIGOL DSA815
Phase noise 10kHz offset -80 dBc/Hz (frequency chart available in spec sheet)
Phase noise 100kHz offset -100 dBc/Hz ?
DANL -130 dBm (PA Off) / -150 dBm/Hz (PA On) 100KHz up to 1MHz.
DANL -135 dBm (PA Off) / -155 dBm/Hz (PA On) 1MHz up to 1.5GHz
I think I let it pass.? Imho the feature wise the TinySAUltra covers them all and even adds new features like the waterfall etc. missing on the DSA815-TG. And in combination with my LiteVNA the tracking generator is covert to.? So Erik, many thanks for designing these great tools and make them available to us for a reasonable price.? --
73 Lex PH2LB?
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Re: 5.8GHz wideband video signal measurements
Hi Toni,
?
It seems that the tinySA just can capture the signal from the drone streaming videos to the remote control. Do you think the tinySA can capture the behavior of pressing some buttons from the remote control? From the video it seems that these signals are too low to be observed, right?
?
Regards,?
Hai
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Requires a TRSS jack, the 4 way type to work reliably in my experience.
?
?
73 de Andy
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So from my experience. The audio port can be picky on what jack you stick inside. And for some reason on my ultra, I cannot insert it all the way or the sound will not work. Just pull out the male slightly and it should work again. This was always the case with mine since day one. I am kind of tempted to solder and new audio port to see if it fixes the problem. Something tells me it's a problem with production considering I've seen videos with the jack inserted all the way and your having the same issue as I. It did not like my Bose headphones and did not like male headphones with microphones. Try to find cheap earbuds with 2 rings on the male jack.??
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Locked
Re: Measure frequencies down to 500khz with tinysa?
I agree. Topic closed
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to
|
Locked
Re: Measure frequencies down to 500khz with tinysa?
Please can I gently draw attention to this forum front page general rule¡..¡±Please only post content related to the tinySA and avoid all content that could lead to off-topic discussions as I'd like to avoid having to moderate off topic discussions.¡±
?
It is becoming more like ¡°ham radio general¡± than ¡°TinySA¡± At least the last 15 posts in this topic (and similar status in many others too) have zero relevance to TinySA product. Thanks. Peter.
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Locked
Re: Measure frequencies down to 500khz with tinysa?
Yes.? And my middle name is spelled with a single "l" and the vowel in the middle is an "u".?
Dave - W?LEV
Dave,
I don't mean to be 'picky' but doing a web search for "Allen
Variances" yielded "Allan", so who is right? (yeah, techs like me
tend to be that way, fun intended)
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
On 10/8/2024 1:13 PM, W0LEV wrote:
Yes,
in those days we were flying Cs clocks even on commercial
flights.? Fun days.? In the lab I was doing Allen Variances
between Cs and Rb.? We were finally convinced with all the
flights that we had to include corrections for relativity.? As
a physicist, I was elated.
Dave
- W?LEV
We had to do that here at the University of Illinois,
too. Back in the early 70's we were doing some ionospheric
propagation studies along with the University of Houston.
We flew two cesium clocks to NBS in Fort Collins CO. They
sent one to us and one to the University of Houston. I was
involved in it because I was studying radio science in
grad school.
Zack W9SZ
Back 'in-the-day' I had to carry (transport) the
'flying clock' from Northwest to White-House (no not
that wh house) to establish the exact 'phase' error
for the ROTHR (Relocatable Over The Horizon Radar).
Why? Yeah, that's another kettle of fish to digest.
Bottom line, it had to do with the 'error' distance
between the transmitter site at wh-house and our
receiver site at NW. If you stuck your periscope out
of the water 1000+ miles away and were traveling just
over 5mph, (knots) well let's just say you now became
a 'target' of interest. Yeah, Dave, then came GPS and
the gee-dunk trips were over.
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
On 10/5/2024 12:48 PM, W0LEV wrote:
Yes.?
mHz is needed to "compete" in the FMTs.? However,
we should use correct abbreviations for the
units.?
Having
once been professionally involved in precision
timekeeping in the early days of GPS, I well
appreciate error bars in the 10^-14 Hz (in the
lab, only).? Of course, once on orbit, we had to
correct for relativity.? Now we take GPS for
granted.?
Dave
- W?LEV
Dave
- W?LEV
We all like to poke fun about this but if you ever
participate in the FMT you actually do need
milliHertz precision to get into the "green box".
On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 15:12:53 +0000
"W0LEV via "
<davearea51a=[email protected]>
wrote:
> QUOTE:? 200 mhz.
>
> 200 milliHertz?? That's the realm of
earthquakes and subsonics!? Possibly
> you mean 200 MHz, MegaHertz.
>
> Dave - W?LEV
--
73
-Jim
NU0C
--
--
|
Locked
Re: Measure frequencies down to 500khz with tinysa?
Dave,
I don't mean to be 'picky' but doing a web search for "Allen
Variances" yielded "Allan", so who is right? (yeah, techs like me
tend to be that way, fun intended)
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
On 10/8/2024 1:13 PM, W0LEV wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Yes,
in those days we were flying Cs clocks even on commercial
flights.? Fun days.? In the lab I was doing Allen Variances
between Cs and Rb.? We were finally convinced with all the
flights that we had to include corrections for relativity.? As
a physicist, I was elated.
Dave
- W?LEV
We had to do that here at the University of Illinois,
too. Back in the early 70's we were doing some ionospheric
propagation studies along with the University of Houston.
We flew two cesium clocks to NBS in Fort Collins CO. They
sent one to us and one to the University of Houston. I was
involved in it because I was studying radio science in
grad school.
Zack W9SZ
Back 'in-the-day' I had to carry (transport) the
'flying clock' from Northwest to White-House (no not
that wh house) to establish the exact 'phase' error
for the ROTHR (Relocatable Over The Horizon Radar).
Why? Yeah, that's another kettle of fish to digest.
Bottom line, it had to do with the 'error' distance
between the transmitter site at wh-house and our
receiver site at NW. If you stuck your periscope out
of the water 1000+ miles away and were traveling just
over 5mph, (knots) well let's just say you now became
a 'target' of interest. Yeah, Dave, then came GPS and
the gee-dunk trips were over.
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
On 10/5/2024 12:48 PM, W0LEV wrote:
Yes.?
mHz is needed to "compete" in the FMTs.? However,
we should use correct abbreviations for the
units.?
Having
once been professionally involved in precision
timekeeping in the early days of GPS, I well
appreciate error bars in the 10^-14 Hz (in the
lab, only).? Of course, once on orbit, we had to
correct for relativity.? Now we take GPS for
granted.?
Dave
- W?LEV
Dave
- W?LEV
We all like to poke fun about this but if you ever
participate in the FMT you actually do need
milliHertz precision to get into the "green box".
On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 15:12:53 +0000
"W0LEV via "
<davearea51a=[email protected]>
wrote:
> QUOTE:? 200 mhz.
>
> 200 milliHertz?? That's the realm of
earthquakes and subsonics!? Possibly
> you mean 200 MHz, MegaHertz.
>
> Dave - W?LEV
--
73
-Jim
NU0C
--
--
|
Locked
Re: Measure frequencies down to 500khz with tinysa?
Yes, in those days we were flying Cs clocks even on commercial flights.? Fun days.? In the lab I was doing Allen Variances between Cs and Rb.? We were finally convinced with all the flights that we had to include corrections for relativity.? As a physicist, I was elated.
Dave - W?LEV
We had to do that here at the University of Illinois, too. Back in the early 70's we were doing some ionospheric propagation studies along with the University of Houston. We flew two cesium clocks to NBS in Fort Collins CO. They sent one to us and one to the University of Houston. I was involved in it because I was studying radio science in grad school.
Zack W9SZ
Back 'in-the-day' I had to carry (transport) the 'flying clock'
from Northwest to White-House (no not that wh house) to establish
the exact 'phase' error for the ROTHR (Relocatable Over The
Horizon Radar). Why? Yeah, that's another kettle of fish to
digest. Bottom line, it had to do with the 'error' distance
between the transmitter site at wh-house and our receiver site at
NW. If you stuck your periscope out of the water 1000+ miles away
and were traveling just over 5mph, (knots) well let's just say you
now became a 'target' of interest. Yeah, Dave, then came GPS and
the gee-dunk trips were over.
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
On 10/5/2024 12:48 PM, W0LEV wrote:
Yes.?
mHz is needed to "compete" in the FMTs.? However, we should
use correct abbreviations for the units.?
Having
once been professionally involved in precision timekeeping in
the early days of GPS, I well appreciate error bars in the
10^-14 Hz (in the lab, only).? Of course, once on orbit, we
had to correct for relativity.? Now we take GPS for granted.?
Dave
- W?LEV
Dave
- W?LEV
We all like to poke fun about this but if you ever participate
in the FMT you actually do need milliHertz precision to get
into the "green box".
On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 15:12:53 +0000
"W0LEV via "
<davearea51a=[email protected]>
wrote:
> QUOTE:? 200 mhz.
>
> 200 milliHertz?? That's the realm of earthquakes and
subsonics!? Possibly
> you mean 200 MHz, MegaHertz.
>
> Dave - W?LEV
--
73
-Jim
NU0C
--
|
Re: tinySA : most accurate power level
If you read the specifications for any of the TINYSAs, Eric recommends measurements to remain faithful to the input signal (no compression or aliasing) stay less than -26 dBm.? I usually shoot for -30 dBm.? Yes, your measurement is likely in compression.
Dave - W?LEV
I'm building a 1kW+ HF power amplifier.? I've a 2kW homebrew dummy-load with a 60dB PAD (measured with a nanoVNA it's around 60db flat to 100MHz).? ?
?
With an IC7300 at 100% FM, 7.2MHz, the tinySA reads -10.5dBm? (As expected: 50dBm less 60db = -10dBm)? (Checking the linearity from from ICOM at 10% to 100% indicates all is working well).
?
So far, so good.
?
Inserting the AMP & LPF: there's a gain of around 12dB (after a 15dB protective PAD at the input of the AMP).? Aligned with the device specification.??
Input: 42.5dBm output 52.5dBm (i.e. -7.5dBm as measured by the tinySA)
?
When the input is increased to 50dBm, one would expect around 62dBm (1600W) at the output : assuming nothing has entered compression.
However, the tinySA reads -2.5dBm which equates to 57.5dBm at the dummy-load (560W).? The AMP is drawing 1,426W DC, the device's datasheet suggests an efficiency of around 80%.? So, one might expect the tinySA to read around 0dBm, indicating 60dBm at the dummy-load.? Checking with a thermal camera, nothing in the AMP (transformer cores) or the LPF cores appear to be getting overly hot (not 850W hot!).??
?
My question is:
Is it likely that the tinySA has become non-linear once above around -10dBm at its input?
Is there a sweet spot where the tinySA is most accurate???
?
I haven't manually configured the tinySA's input attenuator: i.e. it's in Auto mode.? Been using NanoVNA-APP with the tinySA.??
Yep, my next test is to insert a 10dB PAD between the tinySA & dummy-load (the AMP is currently off line for a completely different reason).??
?
Thanks in advance.
?
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Re: tinySA : most accurate power level
For best level accuracy, keep the level AFTER the internal attenuator below -25 dBm, preferably below -35 dBm.
Below -35 dBm the accuracy is level independent as long as you stay 6 dB above the noise floor
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to
|
Re: Can't update firmware
Thanks Stan - that fixed it. Correct driver now installed.
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Re: tinySA : most accurate power level
Erik, thank you for your rapid reply.
?
Is there a sweet spot (power level range) where the tinySA is most accurate?
?
Reflecting on the situation:? I only need to know a power range of 20-30dB where the tinySA is most accurate, I have a 10dB/20dB/30dB PAD which can be used to 'land' in that zone.??
?
I'll update the firmware & use the attenuator & PADs when I next have an opportunity to test the AMP.??
?
Thanks for all the efforts.? The tinySA is great.? Especially when used with a nanoVNA (albeit for different design & measurement tasks).??
?
PS: I bought the tinySA from Zennko store in June 2023.??
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Mike C.
John Cunliffe W7ZQ
Lex PH2LB