Re: Stereo Separation Alignment FM Radio - Is this possible with TinySA?
The stereo audio signal modulating the FM carrier consists of the combined channels and a 19 KHz pilot signal used to synchronize the channel switching during separation of the audio into separate channels.? I believe the resolution of the TinySA is inadequate to resolve the precision required for alignment.? This would require the audio frequency equivalent of the TinySA.
?
A NanoVNA might be used for an analog discriminator, but not likely for a PLL type.
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Re: question about cable shipped with TinySA Ultra
Oh no, I don't like to do a cal each time I switch my NanoVNA on
and I always include the cable on the source port into the
calibration.
So I have not only marked what cable belongs to what VNA, I also
mark what side of the cable connects to the VNA.
By doing so I can much more easy identify cable faults.
Also the Suhner cable I use with my log periodic measurement
antenna is included into the SA cal.
Each cable has it's own behavior, so on my 34GHz Anritsu SA I
have always the same cable on the input and I know it's behavior.
On higher frequencies cables are a very sensitive part. For
example, a 5cm long 2.92mm jumper out of semi rigid cable has more
then 0.5 dB changes in transmission and more then 10dB in
reflection on some peaks between 30 and 40GHz if moved a little.
On my TinySA or also the Ultra in normal mode I use whatever is
handy to do measurements, because reflection isn't that important
and on this low frequencies everything works.
So RG316 cables are a good for the TinySA.
I have to do some tests with my ultra up to 20GHz and do a level
cal and reflection measurements on the input. I would assume that
it makes sense to use a fixed 10dB pad on the input to have a
clean load impedance.
All the Best,
Isidro
Am 21.01.2023 um 16:40 schrieb Mike C.:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Personally I can't tell, mine are mixed and used
interchangeably, works for me.
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
On 1/20/2023 4:27 PM, spiff72 wrote:
Question for those who own both a TinySA and the
Ultra version:
Are the cables physically different between the two
models?? Are the Ultra cables any different in length or
diameter compared to the original TinySA?
On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at
11:09 AM John Cunliffe W7ZQ < n2nep@...>
wrote:
The delivered cables
failed after about 1 week. The connector / cable interface
at the shield came lose. I have since replaced them on both
units with commercial RG223 cables of about the same length.
|
Here's a screen shot of the url:
On 1/20/2023 7:43 PM, Bill Maxwell via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I'm not getting anything from the tutorial link, Dave. nothing
loading after several attempts. Could you please verify the
link?
73 Bill VK7MX
On 21/01/2023 9:50 am, W0LEV wrote:
You're
more than welcome.? The ham who did the tutorial lives in
Boulder, not 20 miles from our QTH.
Dave -
W?LEV
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 9:03
PM George Dukish via <georgedukish= [email protected]>
wrote:
Dave, Thank you for the 'very' informative link on the
subject. I have been looking for a link on fully
understanding the subject of Smith Chart use. Again, thank
you with a "Happy New Year" to you and yours! Geo.
On Friday, January 20, 2023, 02:47:11 PM CST,
W0LEV < davearea51a@...>
wrote:
If
you might wish to learn by doing, here is an
excellent application.? It's freeware at:
????
And
an excellent tutorial at:
????
Dave
- W?LEV
Not
in /g/tinysa/files
?
Where
are they located?
?
Paul,
W8AEF
?
?
There are also several good,
simple to highly
technical,tutorials on the
Smith Chart in the archives on
this group.? They shouldbe
there as I've placed a few
there.?
?
--
--
--
George Dukish
--
|
Re: question about cable shipped with TinySA Ultra
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 10:41 AM Mike C. < mg@...> wrote:
Personally I can't tell, mine are mixed and used
interchangeably, works for me.
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
On 1/20/2023 4:27 PM, spiff72 wrote:
Question for those who own both a TinySA and the
Ultra version:
Are the cables physically different between the two
models?? Are the Ultra cables any different in length or
diameter compared to the original TinySA?
On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 11:09
AM John Cunliffe W7ZQ < n2nep@...>
wrote:
The
delivered cables failed after about 1 week. The connector /
cable interface at the shield came lose. I have since replaced
them on both units with commercial RG223 cables of about the
same length.
|
Re: question about cable shipped with TinySA Ultra
Personally I can't tell, mine are mixed and used
interchangeably, works for me.
Mike C. Sand Mtn GA
On 1/20/2023 4:27 PM, spiff72 wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Question for those who own both a TinySA and the
Ultra version:
Are the cables physically different between the two
models?? Are the Ultra cables any different in length or
diameter compared to the original TinySA?
On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 11:09
AM John Cunliffe W7ZQ < n2nep@...>
wrote:
The
delivered cables failed after about 1 week. The connector /
cable interface at the shield came lose. I have since replaced
them on both units with commercial RG223 cables of about the
same length.
|
Re: question about cable shipped with TinySA Ultra
RG-316 is a cheap and easy to use cable. Has the same problem, that the shield get broken at the shield-crimp point. But because it is PTFE insulated this can easy resoldered.
Have done this on all the NanoVNA cables that were supplied in RG316.
The advantage of being PTFE insulated is also the problem when using heatshrink tube with glue, because the glue don't bind to the PTFE insulation.
If the cable is worth the work you can use little longer tubes instead the original crimping tubes, solder all the stuff together, then fill the gap between tube and outer insulation with glue.
So this is a very nice bench cable for low frequencies up to to some gig with moderate shielding. The loss can be measured with a NanoVNA, so it can be included into level calculations.
All the Best,
Isidro
Am 21.01.2023 um 16:10 schrieb 滨蝉迟惫á苍:
What about RG-316 cable?
滨蝉迟惫á苍
|
Re: question about cable shipped with TinySA Ultra
What about RG-316 cable?
滨蝉迟惫á苍
|
On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 08:39 AM, Tim Ostley wrote:
I would hesitate to put a longer antenna on the tinysa or nanovna from a mechanical point of view
Perhaps I'm wrong but, I mount the the antenna on the coax (or longer if needed) Erik provided. ?I've not done it yet but, a wooden support would work as far to holding the antenna. larry
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Re: Release of my article about the TinySA in Dansh, English anf German language
Hi Ed My pleasure Kind regards Kurt ? ? Outstanding Kurt, thank you for the hard work and tenacity in writing this manual.
Ed kj4fgi
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Re: Release of my article about the TinySA in Dansh, English anf German language
Outstanding Kurt, thank you for the hard work and tenacity in writing this manual.
Ed kj4fgi
|
Re: "CALIBRATE above 5.34GHz" throws a "Signal level too low or not on frequency" error
#bug_report
Erik, thank you for the information regarding the default value set. Given the information you and Kurt have provided, I don't need to do a CAL above 5.34GHz for now. Thanks again.
|
Re: "CALIBRATE above 5.34GHz" throws a "Signal level too low or not on frequency" error
#bug_report
Kurt, thanks for your detailed information. Given what you've said, I'm good with not doing a CAL above 5.34GHz for the time being. Thanks much.
|
Re: "CALIBRATE above 5.34GHz" throws a "Signal level too low or not on frequency" error
#bug_report
Thanks John. I appreciate the information.
|
Re: question about cable shipped with TinySA Ultra
Like you said, with the flexible version. And this is exactly
what to not prefer. Flexible inner conductors made out of multiple
wires are not working well on higher frequencies.
And the damping is much less interesting in measurement
applications then the reflection. Reflections tend to result in
variable signal loss over frequency.
The cable loss is interesting if you build a signal chain for a
specific frequency, like in usual transmission systems.
Measurement applications have a different focus. So mostly thinner
cables have more damping but are also more phase stable and have
less reflections on the bench, specifically true for semi rigid
and rigid cable. Also it is important that the setup is free of
modal waves, will say the diameter of the coaxial system have to
be small enough that the waves can't fit in other direction then
longitudinal into the the transmission medium.? That's the reason
why SMA can only specified to 18GHZ, 3,5mm up to 26,5GHz and
2.92mm up to 40GHz.
RG223 is a nice cable, and I like it because of the easy use on
low frequencies with not that bad shielding on this frequencies.
But not for measurement applications on higher frequencies. The
results are less predictable then with cables especially made for
such usage, like the attached Tensolite Workhorse cables for
example. Please be aware that also the loss and phase stability is
specified by Tensolite. I had to build a special cable some years
ago out of such Tensolite cable material, not the armored?
version, and it has a solid inner with silver plating, PTFE foam
insulation, triple shielding out of three different materials and
PTFE outer insulation.
And yes, the SMA connectors on? the not armored version fail very
often because of the mechanical stress to the shielding wires on
the connector interface. Have to repair them often. But the
transmission characteristics up to 18GHz are great!
All this normal SMA connectors are not for measurement
applications, the major point is that the inner pin is hold in
position by the inner conductor of the cable. This works great for
fixed installation and with cable materials where the foam is
laminated to the inner conductor to prevent a move of that.
In contrast the connectors for measurement applications are build
with a center pin that is hold into place with the insulator parts
of the connector. On this connectors cables can be used with a
inner conductor that can move inside the insulation. This makes
the cable much more robust to bending leading to not that good
electrical parameters.
So to bring this two advantages together the cables for microwave
measurement applications use a outer tube that restrict the
bending radius and the torsion of the cable, inside this tube is a
much smaller microwave cable that is perfectly fitted to
connectors made for this cable. I would love to have some of this,
but they are out of reach for me. A set of two cables for my
Anritsu VNA are more expensive then my car. Not possible for hobby
use. So I have to deal with the problems that less quality cables
brings. For sensitive measurements I use rigid cable, with the
knowledge that they are done after some measurements.
But this is all not that problematic with low frequencies, up to
4 GHz I prefer Aircell 7 because the N and the BNC connectors fit
well, are very good quality and last for years even it used very
often. The connectors can be reused many times. Very good material
for common transmission systems and simple measurement
applications.
Cables fail more often then anything else. Had some years ago
very high priced armored cables from a mayor microwave cable
manufacturing on my bench that were useless. I was interested how
this can be, disassembled the cables to find out that this 5m long
cables had so many movements that the leftovers of the shielding
where only dust. So between the outer and the inner insulation was
nothing left then aluminum, copper and silver dust. Only the
stainless steel protection was left as a ground connection. Not
really a coaxial cable anymore...
All the Best,
Isidro
DB1SBI
Am 21.01.2023 um 03:52 schrieb John
Cunliffe W7ZQ:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 08:59 PM, Isidro Berniol wrote:
but isn't working well above some GHz
RG223 is rated to 12.4Ghz, ample high enough and has lower loss
than LMR100. Yes it is heavier but a well made? RG223 cable made
with the flexible version will last years.
|
Re: question about cable shipped with TinySA Ultra
Thanks all...
My main concern was the fit of the cables into my 3d printed case design.? I suspected the Ultra cables may be a bit longer, based on some of the photos I have seen, so this is good to know.
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 10:15 PM John Cunliffe W7ZQ < n2nep@...> wrote: Isidro said: but isn't working well above some GHz?
RG223 flex is rated at a max frequency of 12.4Ghz,? LMR100 (the equivalent to the supplied cable according to an earlier post by Hugen) is rated at a max frequency of 5.8Ghz.?
30cm of LMR100 has a loss of almost 1db at 5.8Ghz , RG223 has 0.35db per 30cm.
Yes RG223 is heavier, but a well made RG223flex cable will last years. I use it for all my testing needs.
John
|
Re: question about cable shipped with TinySA Ultra
Isidro said: but isn't working well above some GHz?
RG223 flex is rated at a max frequency of 12.4Ghz,? LMR100 (the equivalent to the supplied cable according to an earlier post by Hugen) is rated at a max frequency of 5.8Ghz.?
30cm of LMR100 has a loss of almost 1db at 5.8Ghz , RG223 has 0.35db per 30cm.
www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/LMR-100A-PVC-FT.pdf
Yes RG223 is heavier, but a well made RG223flex cable will last years. I use it for all my testing needs.
John
|
Re: question about cable shipped with TinySA Ultra
The original cables are of good quality. The interface
connector-cable is always sensitive on this small diameter cables.
RG223 is much heavier, so can withstand a lot more mechanical
stress, but isn't working well above some GHz and put more stress
to the connectors of the TinySA.
I prefer this tiny cables with PTFE insulation, because this can
easily repaired by soldering the sleeve to the connector.
This is OK up to round about 18GHz, then all parts of the cables
need to have a much higher quality to work without to much
reflections and damping.
So if you care about the original cables you can use them fora
long time. I own also some NanoVNAs, same to that.
Please keep in mind that a high quality SMA cable form Gore or
Suhner can cost 10 times the price of a Ultra, a 2.92mm cable with
cal data with 30cm length 100 times the price of a Ultra.
So for the budget this cables are really nice. To me the material
looks the same, the Ultra cables are a little longer.
All the Best,
Isidro
Am 20.01.2023 um 22:27 schrieb spiff72:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Question for those who own both a TinySA and the
Ultra version:
Are the cables physically different between the two
models?? Are the Ultra cables any different in length or
diameter compared to the original TinySA?
On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 11:09
AM John Cunliffe W7ZQ < n2nep@...>
wrote:
The
delivered cables failed after about 1 week. The connector /
cable interface at the shield came lose. I have since replaced
them on both units with commercial RG223 cables of about the
same length.
|
I'm not getting anything from the tutorial link, Dave. nothing
loading after several attempts. Could you please verify the link?
73 Bill VK7MX
On 21/01/2023 9:50 am, W0LEV wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
You're
more than welcome.? The ham who did the tutorial lives in
Boulder, not 20 miles from our QTH.
Dave -
W?LEV
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 9:03
PM George Dukish via <georgedukish= [email protected]>
wrote:
Dave, Thank you for the 'very' informative link on the
subject. I have been looking for a link on fully
understanding the subject of Smith Chart use. Again, thank
you with a "Happy New Year" to you and yours! Geo.
On Friday, January 20, 2023, 02:47:11 PM CST, W0LEV
< davearea51a@...>
wrote:
If
you might wish to learn by doing, here is an
excellent application.? It's freeware at:
????
And
an excellent tutorial at:
????
Dave
- W?LEV
Not
in /g/tinysa/files
?
Where
are they located?
?
Paul,
W8AEF
?
?
There are also several good,
simple to highly
technical,tutorials on the Smith
Chart in the archives on this
group.? They shouldbe there as
I've placed a few there.?
?
--
--
--
George Dukish
--
|
You're more than welcome.? The ham who did the tutorial lives in Boulder, not 20 miles from our QTH.
Dave - W?LEV
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 9:03 PM George Dukish via <georgedukish= [email protected]> wrote: Dave, Thank you for the 'very' informative link on the subject. I have been looking for a link on fully understanding the subject of Smith Chart use. Again, thank you with a "Happy New Year" to you and yours! Geo.
On Friday, January 20, 2023, 02:47:11 PM CST, W0LEV < davearea51a@...> wrote:
If you might wish to learn by doing, here is an excellent application.? It's freeware at:
????
And an excellent tutorial at:
????
Dave - W?LEV
Not in /g/tinysa/files ? Where are they located? ? Paul, W8AEF ? ? There are also several good, simple to highly technical,tutorials on the Smith Chart in the archives on this group.? They shouldbe there as I've placed a few there.? ?
--
--
--
George Dukish
|
Thanks for the info.? I am downloading the
videos as I type.
?
I keep thinking that if I expose myself to
more and more Smith chart stuff that eventually I will 'get it'.
?
Paul, W8AEF
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of W0LEV
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2023
1:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tinysa] Antenna
Replacement? #tinysa #ultra
?
If you might wish to learn by doing, here is an excellent
application.? It's freeware at:
And an excellent tutorial at:
|
Mike C.
Tim K4SHF
Kurt Poulsen
Ed Vignati
John Cunliffe W7ZQ