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Re: Measurement examples posted on wiki
Hi Erik
The Si5351A is prone to crosstalk between outputs, if the outputs are heavily loaded (e.g. 50-ohm loads). There's only a single supply pin into the chip. Other suffix versions of the Si5351 in larger packages have separate?buffers with their own supply pins and this is less of a problem.?
Therefore if you want to use multiple?Si5351A outputs on different frequencies, and you don't want that level of crosstalk, you need to buffer them with a relatively higher input impedance buffer.?
Additionally phase noise performance is degraded when the outputs are heavily loaded. One partial remedy to this is to use a DC blocking capacitor, which appears to restore the phase?noise performance.?
Note?also that the output spectra of the Si5351A will depend somewhat on the internal configuration. For best low jitter performance (i.e. good phase noise performance) the datasheet?recommends even integer MultiSynth divider stage configuration where possible, using fractional feedback division on the PLL stage. There is quite a lot of bad Si5351A code out there in libraries and such, that does things the WRONG way.?
My article on phase noise measurements of the Si5351A might be of interest see?
73 Hans G0UPL
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On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:34 PM, Kurt Poulsen wrote:
Hi Erik
After the nice warning clicked OK it started
Repeated start it gave no error message, but in the mockup it gives new meassge, but of course I have no idea what is allowed
==============================================
Erik, ? I receive a did different exception than Kurt.? ?The new version starts up O.K. automatically in the mock-up mode, but if I hit single the single sweep or run button I get the same string format exception previously reported. 
- Herb
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Hi Erik After the nice warning clicked OK it started Repeated start it gave no error message, but in the mockup it gives new meassge, but of course I have no idea what is allowed Kind regards Kurt ? 
Fra: tinysa@groups.io <tinysa@groups.io> P? vegne af erik@...
Sendt: 5. maj 2020 20:47
Til: tinysa@groups.io
Emne: Re: [tinysa] PC SW for tinySA ? Can you test if the updated version works better?
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Hi Erik Nope, got this nice message Kind regards Kurt 
? Fra: tinysa@groups.io <tinysa@groups.io> P? vegne af erik@...
Sendt: 5. maj 2020 20:47
Til: tinysa@groups.io
Emne: Re: [tinysa] PC SW for tinySA ? Can you test if the updated version works better?
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Re: RFI Source Identification Signature Storage Application
Tom,
For now there is no analog output foreseen.
Display demodulated AM in volt (Vrms of the carrier) is being worked on so effectively it will behave like a digital scope.
Now all I have to add is the ability to store traces in flash which may be useful anyway.
For the todo list
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Can you test if the updated version works better?
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Re: RFI Source Identification Signature Storage Application
? ? ? ? An analog AM bandwidth of 1KHz would be sufficient for tracking down utility power noise sources which typically generate 100 or 120 Hz fundamentals along with a few harmonics. The amplitude significant harmonics typically fall below 1 KHz. A real time, linear analog amplitude response output for connection of an external scope may be the most practical way to support hydro related RFI source searching. Maybe a filtered PWM output active during zero scan mode might be worth considering. The pocket size scopes which I discovered advertised online have significant trace storage and PC USB interface features. Some interesting models are priced within the $50-$100 range, IMHO not too bad of a financial burden for those serious about using the tinySA for tracking down RFI sources.
Tom, VA7TA
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On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 09:09 AM, hwalker wrote:
On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 08:56 AM, <erik@...> wrote:
Argggggg
Do not try, something wrong
===============================================
? ?Too late Erik.? I tried the executable before I read your reply and it ran without dll error on my Windows 10 x64 system (see attachment).? I received a MSVCR100D and MSVCP100D dll error when trying to run your prior upload.
- Herb
=================================================== You're right Erik, ? ?The application loads OK in the mock-up mode, but clicking single sweep or run results in a "Input string was not in a correct format" exception. - Herb
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On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 08:56 AM, <erik@...> wrote:
Argggggg
Do not try, something wrong
=============================================== ? ?Too late Erik.? I tried the executable before I read your reply and it ran without dll error on my Windows 10 x64 system (see attachment).? I received a MSVCR100D and MSVCP100D dll error when trying to run your prior upload. - Herb
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On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 08:48 AM, Kurt Poulsen wrote:
Hi Herb
Thank you for the info, then I was right ?
I am sure Erik will send me one when needed or put it on the group
==================================================== Kurt, ? ? In case you missed Erik's reply he has already re-uploaded a release version that runs in a mock-up mode. I just tried it and it runs fine in the mock-up mode for previewing the application's features. - Herb - Herb
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Argggggg
Do not try, something wrong
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Hi Herb Thank you for the info, then I was right ? I am sure Erik will send me one when needed or put it on the group Kind regards Kurt ? ? Fra: tinysa@groups.io <tinysa@groups.io> P? vegne af hwalker
Sendt: 5. maj 2020 17:33
Til: tinysa@groups.io
Emne: Re: [tinysa] PC SW for tinySA ? On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 07:28 AM, Kurt Poulsen wrote: Hi Erik I downloaded the ? and when starting it reports MSVCP100D missing. As far I have figure out it is a file implemented in the code for debugging code created with Visual Studio 2010.
? ? ? ?Kurt,
? ? ? ? ? ?You are correct, the "D" suffix indicates the executable that created the error is not a release version and not normally intended for distribution ( for software debugging?as you noted).? The release version will use the MSVCP100.dll that is already present in your Windows System32 directory.
? ? ? ?If you want to get a jump start on using the tinySA Windows application you will have to ask Erik for a release version of the application, or hunt down the?MSVCP100D and MSVR100D dll 's on the internet for use with the pre-release application.
? - Herb?
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My mistake,
Release version uploaded.
Can you test if this runs?
When the selector bock pop's up you can select "mockup" and the SW will run with a simulated source
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On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 07:28 AM, Kurt Poulsen wrote:
Hi Erik
I downloaded the ? and when starting it reports MSVCP100D missing. As far I have figure out it is a file implemented in the code for debugging code created with Visual Studio 2010.
? ? ? ?Kurt,
? ? ? ? ? ?You are correct, the "D" suffix indicates the executable that created the error is not a release version and not normally intended for distribution ( for software debugging?as you noted).? The release version will use the MSVCP100.dll that is already present in your Windows System32 directory.
? ? ? ?If you want to get a jump start on using the tinySA Windows application you will have to ask Erik for a release version of the application, or hunt down the?MSVCP100D and MSVR100D dll 's on the internet for use with the pre-release application.
? - Herb?
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Hi Erik I downloaded the ? and when starting it reports MSVCP100D missing. As far I have figure out it is a file implemented in the code for debugging code created with Visual Studio 2010. How to solve ? Kind regards Kurt ? Fra: tinysa@groups.io <tinysa@groups.io> P? vegne af erik@...
Sendt: 3. maj 2020 14:07
Til: tinysa@groups.io
Emne: [tinysa] PC SW for tinySA ? The wiki has one page on the PC SW for the tinySA
More to come
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Re: RFI Source Identification Signature Storage Application
Internal flash allow minimum 10k write cycles (as in datasheet) Possibly use external SD card for this, and use simple SPI transfer mode (easy connect to display SPI bus)
Transfer modes
Cards may support various combinations of the following bus types and transfer modes. The SPI bus mode and one-bit SD bus mode are mandatory for all SD families, as explained in the next section. Once the host device and the SD card negotiate a bus interface mode, the usage of the numbered pins is the same for all card sizes.
?
SPI bus mode: Serial Peripheral Interface Bus is primarily used by embedded microcontrollers. This bus type supports only a 3.3-volt interface. This is the only bus type that does not require a host license.
One-bit SD bus mode: Separate command and data channels and a proprietary transfer format.
Four-bit SD bus mode: Uses extra pins plus some reassigned pins. This is the same protocol as the one-bit SD bus mode which uses one command and four data lines for faster data transfer. All SD cards support this mode. UHS-I and UHS-II require this bus type.
Two differential lines SD UHS-II mode: Uses two low-voltage differential interfaces to transfer commands and data. UHS-II cards include this interface in addition to the SD bus modes.
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Re: Measurement examples posted on wiki
Then I tried to reproduce the measurement of Tom by setting my SI5351 to the same frequencies. That failed as my SW for setting the SI5351 probably works in a different way. Here I have two measurements that show the huge impact of changing another output First the outputs are set at 45, 80 and 160MHz, all multiples of 5MHz.  Then I moved the 160MHz output to 161MHz  This seems to suggest you can not compare any SI5351 measurements unless you replicate the exact settings of the 2 VCO's and the 3 factional output dividers.
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Re: Measurement examples posted on wiki
Reading this I got worried about the tinySA seeing ghosts so I took a SI5351 and set all outputs to 5MHz  A nice clean scan, except for the signal just above 8MHz which is probably a spur coming from the MCU in the tinySA Then one of the unconnected outputs was set to 6MHz  Now various 1MHz spaced spurs appear and with all outputs set to 6MHz  so the 1MHz spaced spikes seem to originate from the SI5351, or am I missing something and is there a big problem in the tinySA?
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Re: RFI Source Identification Signature Storage Application
Would something as shown in this post help? /g/tinysa/message/37The scan speed in zero span can be set but the upper bandwidth of AM demodulation is about 1kHz (maybe 2kHz)? After measuring the scan can be paused and later the tinySA can be connected to a computer to grab the screen I do not yet foresee saving scans to flash as I'm not sure how many flash writes can be endured
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Kurt Poulsen
