Re: #ultra Touch calibration #ultra

#8621

You need to touch the corners in order for the cal routine to do a measurement across the entire screen.? Use a plastic tipped mechanical pencil with the lead retracted, the rounded end of a toothpick or a thin plastic stylus.? Once completed you can use your regular stylus.

You need a very sharp pen to reach the corner. It's not healthy for the touchscreen to use a sharp pen.

Yes, will be done

Thanks very much!
--
Klaus, DL5KV

Re: #tinysa Power Reading #tinysa

#8620

On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 10:12 AM, G8HUL wrote:

Most Pas are not 50 ohm, they are designed to give a specified power 'into* a 50 ohm load.

Jeff,

?

That's right, impedance matching is necessary for sources that can only deliver a small amount of electrical power and whose power is to be passed on as comprehensively as possible. Such weak sources are, for example, antennas. With linear sources and sinks, in the best case only half of the available power is actually radiated; the efficiency is then 50 %. The other half is lost as power dissipation in the internal resistance of the source.

Electrical energy sources, e.g. a power station, but also a large PA - whether audio or high frequency - are therefore not designed for power matching, but for voltage matching (i.e. low source resistance); their nominal power would therefore be exceeded long before any (theoretical) power matching.

?

Martin

?

Re: Which branch to use to compile the same firmware as Erik is releasing?

#8619

Erik,

The build instructions will build a version "v0.1-602-gb87733e" based on the deprecated "master" branch.

The most important info to be on track with your development is to type git checkout V4.3?before running make?(to build tinySA) or TARGET=F303 make?(to build tinySA4 aka. Ultra. Funny fact - at the moment you can set TARGET to every nonempty string to get the Ultra, also TARGET=F072 builds the Ultra version, see also my ).

BUT this will give a different version name "v1.2-658-g65f6118" (the g65f6118 correctly refers to the last commit on branch V4.3, but the v1.2-656 is out of order). See also?.?

My Q'n'D fix is to do this once after cloning:

? ? git tag -d v1.3
? ? git tag -a -m v1.3 v1.3 12a96bb

This matches your versioning and gives?v1.3-558-g65f6118 (at the time of my writing, you haven't pushed your latest commit 9ebab38, which is the base for??- have you?).

EDIT: I saw your two new commits, now GitHub is in front of your download page at version?v1.3-560-g88121a2. (real work in progress)

I hope this sheds some light on the mysteries of creating your own versions.

Martin

Re: #tinysa Power Reading #tinysa

#8618

The reason is that a HT has in most cases not a true 50R output impedance.
So if you connect the HT output to a load you have reflections that can bring very big errors to the measurement.That is not the case. Most Pas are not 50ohm, they are designed to give a specified power 'into* a 50 ohm load.
The o/p impedance of the PA has no effect on any reflections from the load, that is entirely dependent on how well the load matches the transmission line.
The only time the PA impedances comes into play is what happened to any power that is reflected from the load that arrives back at the PA.

73
Jeff G8HUL

Re: tg

#8617

For the Ultra (which also has an LO output) its more complex, I will have to update the wiki.
--

For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/

Re: tg

#8616

Paul,

I believe that you need a second device to act as the generator.? If you do need a second device, it would be my recommendation to get one that does VNA functions.? The NanoVNA series is in the same price range as the TinySA.? The NanoVNA also provides more information than the TinySA could, including loss, impedance, and phase shift., not to mention Smith Chart output.? The two together provide the tools needed for RF measurements.

I suggest you do an internet search on the difference between a vector network analyzer and a spectrum analyzer (VNA vs SA).

My opinions.? Erik may have a better view and different input.
73
Evan
AC9TU

New ULTRA FW release: Improved font and touch cal

#8615

New ULTRA FW release
Version V1.3559

Changes:
- Removed slash in zero in medium font for better readability
- Shifted touch cal points away from display edges
- Added level checks during level calibration.
--

For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/

tg

#8614

do these have a tg or anyway of hooking one up,for bandpass filter alignment etc?,73 m3vuv.

Re: Which branch to use to compile the same firmware as Erik is releasing?

#8613

I've updated the build instructions on github
https://github.com/erikkaashoek/tinySA/blob/master/README.md

For the ultra you should use this:

make TARGET="F303"

--

For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/

Re: Which branch to use to compile the same firmware as Erik is releasing?

#8612

On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 03:46 AM, Lane Wilson wrote:

I have managed to get the source code to compile in a Windows 10 environment.

Hi, Lane,
The project uses built-in C preprocessor directives for conditional compilation when built from the main branch.
Would you, please, share some details of Your proper toolchain setup under Windows? I am also interested to try it (just for learning purposes, no modifications ). And would like to setup Windows environment.

Alex

Re: Which branch to use to compile the same firmware as Erik is releasing?

#8611

Lane,
Please see my issue #35:
https://github.com/erikkaashoek/tinySA/issues/35
Martin

Which branch to use to compile the same firmware as Erik is releasing?

#8610

I have managed to get the source code to compile in a Windows 10 environment.
I thought that the "V4.3" branch was the one to use, but seeing an older version displayed in the CONFIG->VERSION screen.
At this time, not planning any changes to the source code, just trying to get the firmware build environment setup properly.

Lane
VE7IHL

Re: #tinysa Power Reading #tinysa

#8609

I've also found the output power of an HT is dependent on the charge level of the included batteries.? This can change from one transmission to another transmission and even within a long-winded transmission.?

Before over analyzing the two measurements, consider all the variables that go into the two measurements.?

1)? Variable HT output power with battery condition.

2)? Variable HT output power with heating of the output and driver stages.

3)? Accuracy of the attenuator(s) used in the measurement(s).*

4)? Accuracy of each of the two measurement devices.

5)? Consistency of the coaxial cables used in the two measurements.*

6)? What ever I've forgotten or not lested.

*? Certainly the attenuator was used for the TinySA measurement.? Possibly it was not used for the additional measurement.? Also, different or additional coaxial cables were used for the two differing measurements.?

Dave - W?LEV?

Show quoted text

On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 10:30 PM Isidro Berniol <sidro.groups.io@...> wrote:

The main problem with this power measurements is that also if the power meter and the attenuator are in good condition the measurements can be vary a lot.

The reason is that a HT has in most cases not a true 50R output impedance.

So if you connect the HT output to a load you have reflections that can bring very big errors to the measurement.

This is the reason why I always use a feed through power sensor, like the BIld or the R&S with a very very short connection to the HT and after that a directional coupler with termination and the SA.

So you can measure the real power much better.

Also it isn't in most cases of real help to know the output power of a HT, because a HT is always a more or less matched pair with the antenna. So what of real interest is, is the transmitted energy, that is influenced by the surrounding environment a lot. A good HT has a tolerant output stage that can handle a lot of impedance fluctuations without producing distortion and noise. Nothing that can be measured with a power meter or an SA by themself.

A nice test setup is using a length variable stub to make a? variable complex load and look what the power, the spectral purity and the power consumption is doing. And then repeat this with a whip antenna instead of the dummy load.

I have done some measurements with a 2m HT standing free, holding with the hand, holding near the mouth, inside the pocket. After this tests it was clear to me why a good old Motorola GP900 had a better real live performance then a cheap HT. It is some years ago that I have done that, but the basics don't change. Also I prefer to use singe band low bandwidth HTs for real work. The receivers are much better regarding out of band sensitivity.

When measuring whip antennas it is necessary to build a counterbalance to the antenna. A can with a socket soldered inside and a common mode filter on the feed cable is a good start.

One more point is that because of the unknown source impedance it is possible that the meters show different values because they are often not power meters, they are voltage meters with a 50R resistor.

To conclude this. You can't use a HT as a measurement source if it isn't carefully measured and specified for its behavior. At minimum add a 3 dB attenuator directly without adapters to the HT output to make the source impedance better, 10dB if you can compensate that power loss in your measurement chain.

All the Best,

Isidro

Am 13.12.2022 um 17:25 schrieb hwalker:

On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 06:41 AM, John AE5X wrote:

On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 08:16 AM, Erik Kaashoek wrote:

You can check your attenuator using the tinySA.
I never would have thought of using the CAL function in this manner - works like a charm:

?
John,
? You can also measure the attenuation without the math by first normalizing the CAL output signal as below:

CALOUT: [email protected]
?

TRACE1->NORMALIZE
?

20dB Attenuator between CAL OUT and RF IN.
?

Herb

--

Dave - W?LEV

Re: #tinysa Power Reading #tinysa

#8608

开云体育

Excellent explanation.? Brings back many lab experiences.

?

Kind Regards,

Dave

Dave Reiser, WA3TRS

?

Show quoted text

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Isidro Berniol
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2022 5:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [tinysa] #tinysa Power Reading

?

The main problem with this power measurements is that also if the power meter and the attenuator are in good condition the measurements can be vary a lot.

The reason is that a HT has in most cases not a true 50R output impedance.

So if you connect the HT output to a load you have reflections that can bring very big errors to the measurement.

This is the reason why I always use a feed through power sensor, like the BIld or the R&S with a very very short connection to the HT and after that a directional coupler with termination and the SA.

So you can measure the real power much better.

Also it isn't in most cases of real help to know the output power of a HT, because a HT is always a more or less matched pair with the antenna. So what of real interest is, is the transmitted energy, that is influenced by the surrounding environment a lot. A good HT has a tolerant output stage that can handle a lot of impedance fluctuations without producing distortion and noise. Nothing that can be measured with a power meter or an SA by themself.

A nice test setup is using a length variable stub to make a? variable complex load and look what the power, the spectral purity and the power consumption is doing. And then repeat this with a whip antenna instead of the dummy load.

?

I have done some measurements with a 2m HT standing free, holding with the hand, holding near the mouth, inside the pocket. After this tests it was clear to me why a good old Motorola GP900 had a better real live performance then a cheap HT. It is some years ago that I have done that, but the basics don't change. Also I prefer to use singe band low bandwidth HTs for real work. The receivers are much better regarding out of band sensitivity.

When measuring whip antennas it is necessary to build a counterbalance to the antenna. A can with a socket soldered inside and a common mode filter on the feed cable is a good start.

?

One more point is that because of the unknown source impedance it is possible that the meters show different values because they are often not power meters, they are voltage meters with a 50R resistor.

?

To conclude this. You can't use a HT as a measurement source if it isn't carefully measured and specified for its behavior. At minimum add a 3 dB attenuator directly without adapters to the HT output to make the source impedance better, 10dB if you can compensate that power loss in your measurement chain.

?

All the Best,

Isidro

?

Am 13.12.2022 um 17:25 schrieb hwalker:

On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 06:41 AM, John AE5X wrote:

On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 08:16 AM, Erik Kaashoek wrote:

You can check your attenuator using the tinySA.

I never would have thought of using the CAL function in this manner - works like a charm:

?

John,
? You can also measure the attenuation without the math by first normalizing the CAL output signal as below:

CALOUT: [email protected]
?

TRACE1->NORMALIZE
?

20dB Attenuator between CAL OUT and RF IN.
?

Herb

Re: #tinysa Power Reading #tinysa

#8607

开云体育

The main problem with this power measurements is that also if the power meter and the attenuator are in good condition the measurements can be vary a lot.

The reason is that a HT has in most cases not a true 50R output impedance.

So if you connect the HT output to a load you have reflections that can bring very big errors to the measurement.

This is the reason why I always use a feed through power sensor, like the BIld or the R&S with a very very short connection to the HT and after that a directional coupler with termination and the SA.

So you can measure the real power much better.

Also it isn't in most cases of real help to know the output power of a HT, because a HT is always a more or less matched pair with the antenna. So what of real interest is, is the transmitted energy, that is influenced by the surrounding environment a lot. A good HT has a tolerant output stage that can handle a lot of impedance fluctuations without producing distortion and noise. Nothing that can be measured with a power meter or an SA by themself.

A nice test setup is using a length variable stub to make a? variable complex load and look what the power, the spectral purity and the power consumption is doing. And then repeat this with a whip antenna instead of the dummy load.

I have done some measurements with a 2m HT standing free, holding with the hand, holding near the mouth, inside the pocket. After this tests it was clear to me why a good old Motorola GP900 had a better real live performance then a cheap HT. It is some years ago that I have done that, but the basics don't change. Also I prefer to use singe band low bandwidth HTs for real work. The receivers are much better regarding out of band sensitivity.

When measuring whip antennas it is necessary to build a counterbalance to the antenna. A can with a socket soldered inside and a common mode filter on the feed cable is a good start.

One more point is that because of the unknown source impedance it is possible that the meters show different values because they are often not power meters, they are voltage meters with a 50R resistor.

To conclude this. You can't use a HT as a measurement source if it isn't carefully measured and specified for its behavior. At minimum add a 3 dB attenuator directly without adapters to the HT output to make the source impedance better, 10dB if you can compensate that power loss in your measurement chain.

All the Best,

Isidro

Am 13.12.2022 um 17:25 schrieb hwalker:

Show quoted text

On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 06:41 AM, John AE5X wrote:

On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 08:16 AM, Erik Kaashoek wrote:

You can check your attenuator using the tinySA.
I never would have thought of using the CAL function in this manner - works like a charm:

?
John,
? You can also measure the attenuation without the math by first normalizing the CAL output signal as below:

CALOUT: [email protected]
?

TRACE1->NORMALIZE
?

20dB Attenuator between CAL OUT and RF IN.
?

Herb

Re: #ultra Touch calibration #ultra

#8606

On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 10:54 AM, Klaus W?rner wrote:

Is it possible to move the calibration points for touch calibration a little bit to the middle of the screen?

Yes, will be done
?
--

For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/

Re: #ultra Touch calibration #ultra

#8605

On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 10:54 AM, Klaus W?rner wrote:

Is it possible to move the calibration points for touch calibration a little bit to the middle of the screen? At the moment they are exactly in the corners of the screen. You need a very thin pen to calibrate. Most of touch pens are a little bit bigger and you can't reach the corner exactly.
--
Klaus, DL5KV

You need to touch the corners in order for the cal routine to do a measurement across the entire screen.? Use a plastic tipped mechanical pencil with the lead retracted, the rounded end of a toothpick or a thin plastic stylus.? Once completed you can use your regular stylus.

Roger

Re: Touch Screen Issue

#8604

It's nearly not possible to calibrate it with good quality.
I wrote it here
It would be nice if there will be a change in future.

--
Klaus, DL5KV

Re: Touch Screen Issue

#8603

Please do a touch calibration.
CONFIG/TOUCH

Make you touch exactly in the corners with something like a wooden toothpick to het the best touch calibration

If that does not improve relax the case screws a bit and try again.
--

For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/

Re: Touch Screen Issue

#8602

I got mine yesterday from Zeenko.? Followed Kurt's video to install the latest FW and set the Ultra Code.

I'm having the same (or similar) issues.? The touch screen makes no sense.? I can touch one "button" and the one above it is selected.? I can get trapped at the numeric pad screen and have to cycle power.? The Touch Test gives me State 0 and wants me to drag the panel, whatever that means.

Not happy.

Wes? N7Ws

Show quoted text

On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 05:36 PM, Joe Scalet wrote:

Just received mine from R&L. Did the firmware up grade and calibration. It worked fine yesterday. Today when it boots up and I touch the screen it defaults to the frequency setting screen. The only inputs it accepts are from the jog wheel. I select? touch test and I get a black screen with STATE: 0. Th jog wheel rotates between 2 and 8 but does not allow selecting either. It does not allow me to d
"drag" the panel. The battery is fully charge. Any thoughts?
Joe WK0G