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Re: New tinySA failing Self-test after FW upgrade

 

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 09:54 AM, Erik Kaashoek wrote:
... There is already such an attenuator linearity test in the code. But disabled at the moment.
It steps through all 64 attenuator positions (0.5dB per step) ...
While playing around with some code to also step through the 64 attenuator positions,? I noticed that 0.5 dB steps can be entered from the on-screen keypad but only only 1 dB steps can be programmed using the 'attenuate' command (i.e. attenuate 15.5 displays Atten: 15dB on the tinySA status display.? Is that an intentional limitation??

- Herb


Re: I originally asked: good source & non-expensive url for Attenuators

 

I did some thinking here, plus some math and testing, then I found an excellent youtube from W0QE describing all that was asked here :) The only reason NOT to check his presentation would be the time - two videos (Part 1 and Part 2) are 30 minutes each, and are well worth time spent!




For some of you too busy to check them out, here is the digest version :) Even if we assume that my digest will tell you everything you need to know, still go and check Larry's posts!!!

Let's assume you want your tap to cover some extreme cases - from 1W to 1500W. You also want to get signal from the tap that you can take to your instrument (tinySA for example) that's 50ohm. This will drive the need attenuate your signal by 40dB (too much and your low power will be to small, too little and your legal limit will fry your instrument). Without too much explanations (see Larry's Part 1), you will end up with resistor divider 2500ohm/50ohm. Given that 1500W@50ohm->270Vrms,?your 2500ohm will need to be 30W. Too much :)
If you scale down your expectations to use tap for up to 100W, you will deal with 70Vrms, and resistor will be 2W, more manageable.
NOTE: all the numbers are for measuring where SWR is very low. Increase SWR, voltage goes up.

Larry is showing examples where you can use Cap divider (or inductive) so you eliminated power dissipation only related to resistors, but both have quite frequency dependent "behavior".

In Part 2 he explains inductive coupling (the current transformer), impact of stray capacitances, sizing, ... I especially liked the part with "how to minimize stray capacitance" and different design approaches to ""extend the shield"

He also touched on impact of SWR, and that applies to all cases (R/L/C/inductive).

Through both parts he is EXTENSIVELLY using SimSmith - if not familiar, don't be scared, he's explaining what's being done.

If you like his videos, check other of his stuff, i just finished his video on designing CMC (Common Mode Choke) and finally understood some of stuff that was always in front of me, but never clicked!

I just need to find more hours in a day and to check all that's on his youtube channel :)

So, to SUMARIZE:
  • resistive taps are quite OK, but come with significant challenges related to needed power rating of a resistor used if you are constrained with 50ohm output?
  • capacitive and inductive dividers are not practical
  • inductive coupling, when done correctly, is the best design to cover wide range of power and frequency
  • neither (divider/coupling) should be used to measure power if SWR is not very low


?


Re: New tinySA failing Self-test after FW upgrade

 

There is already such an attenuator linearity test in the code. But disabled at the moment.
It steps through all 64 attenuator positions (0.5dB per step) and if all is well it should draw a perfect straight line on the display.
Will see if I can re-enable it.

The attenuator is solid state so it should not deteriorate over time. The early FW used in manufacturing did not test all attenuator positions as I was unaware of the less than zero fall-off rate of the attenuator.
In the current production all attenuators are tested to eliminate these? bad attenuators but there could be post production stress caused by low temperatures during air shipment.
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/


Re: New tinySA failing Self-test after FW upgrade

 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 11:46 PM, Erik Kaashoek wrote:
It seems your attenuator is bad.
You can verify this by enabling the cal output at 30MHz (MODE/Cal Output/30MHz) and putting the tinySA in low input mode with center 30MHz and span 10MHz.?
Set LEVEL/ATTENUATE/MANUAL 0 (0 dB attenuation) and write down the level of the 30MHz signal
Then increase the attenuation in 1dB steps and see how the noise floor moves up and the level of the 30MHz signal stays the same.
If the 30MHz signal level suddenly makes a jump up or down when changing the attenuation write down the attenuation levels before and after the jump and post your observation.
Erik,
? To take the drudgery out of manually entering 31 attenuator values, would it be possible to either add a module to TinySA-App (Settings?) that performs an extended attenuator test, as outlined by yourself above, or write a separate executable that performs an extended attenuator test?? An extended attenuator test would also help hugen to detect a device with a borderline bad attenuator in the QA process before shipping it.

? Does the manufacturer? specify the number of operations the attenuator can be switched (MTBF?) before it needs to be replaced?

? I can throw something together for myself in C#, but my programming skills are not good enough that I would trust publicly releasing an executable.

- Herb


Re: Selftest errors

 

Thanks.
The attenuator seems bad. Suggest you contact your supplier for resolution while referring to this communication.?
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/


Re: Selftest errors

 

8DB. the other picture is 7DB


Re: Selftest errors

 

what attenuation is the picture with the marker at -29.5dBm?
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/


Re: Selftest errors

 

OK Erik.?
I think I did the test correctly.?


Locked Re: What to do when you think you bought a tinySA clone.

 

On 2021-01-14, at 10:26, Carsten Bormann via ?<cabocabo@...> wrote:

Banggood now also sends clones (at least from their CZ warehouse).

I’ll try to get a refund; if the clone is illegal, I cannot send it back (because that would be illegal!).

Well, we have already established it is a fraudulent, and by the way illegal, fake.

I’m still in the process of trying to get a refund from banggood.

The customer service representative is asking for more and more info, while it is already clear that this is a fake item.
(I don’t care whether it works, which it doesn’t properly:?
it’s a counterfeit item, and I bought the real tinySA.)

For your amusement (Schadenfreude? :-), an internal photo of the fake is attached (I only took the plastic cover off, no other changes by me).

Grü?e, Carsten


Re: New tinySA failing Self-test after FW upgrade

 

Thank you for the help.? I will follow up with Zeenko store.


Re: New tinySA failing Self-test after FW upgrade

 

Clear.
You can contact Maggie from the Zeenko store on AliExpress and ask for a solution, refer to these messages as evidence.
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/


Re: New tinySA failing Self-test after FW upgrade

 

I went through the 1dB steps between 0 and 30 and this seems like the biggest change:


Re: Low Output Mode - 1/10 db steps #feature_request

 

Good suggestion
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/


What to do when a selftest fails

 
Edited

If one or more of the self test of the tinySA fails AND you did NOT buy from one of the safe sellers (see wiki) you can do the following:

If the Attenuator test (test 12 in the latest FW) fails follow this guide in the wiki:?

If the serial number at the back of your tinySA starts with "AD" you have a clone. Complain and get a refund.
If the text next to the high input connector is "HICH" you have a clone. Complain and get a refund.

For other failures make a photo of the front and back of the tinySA and a photo or screen capture of the failing self test such that it is possible to read the text on the screen and post a message with the pictures.
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/


Re: Selftest errors

 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 10:13 PM, AC0AX wrote:
Test 10 gives me a signal level critical error and test 11 give me an attenuator error.
Hal,
Can you do the same test as described in this post:?/g/tinysa/message/2769

?
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/


Re: New tinySA failing Self-test after FW upgrade

 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 11:41 PM, Nicholas R wrote:
I seem to be getting intermittent Test 3 errors as well.
This could also be caused by an attenuator problem but it is not a big problem, just on the edge
?
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/


Re: New tinySA failing Self-test after FW upgrade

 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 11:18 PM, Nicholas R wrote:
Hopefully this is helpful.
It seems your attenuator is bad.
You can verify this by enabling the cal output at 30MHz (MODE/Cal Output/30MHz) and putting the tinySA in low input mode with center 30MHz and span 10MHz.?
Set LEVEL/ATTENUATE/MANUAL 0 (0 dB attenuation) and write down the level of the 30MHz signal
Then increase the attenuation in 1dB steps and see how the noise floor moves up and the level of the 30MHz signal stays the same.
If the 30MHz signal level suddenly makes a jump up or down when changing the attenuation write down the attenuation levels before and after the jump and post your observation.
If the attenuator is bad you can contact your seller and the issue will be resolved


?
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/


Re: New tinySA failing Self-test after FW upgrade

 

I seem to be getting intermittent Test 3 errors as well.


Re: New tinySA failing Self-test after FW upgrade

 

Hopefully this is helpful.


Re: New tinySA failing Self-test after FW upgrade

 

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 10:13 PM, Nicholas R wrote:
, but I'm having failures on Test 10 and 11 since updating to the most recent
Can you post somewhat bigger pictures of both test 10 and 11 with their message? Not the final selftest status screen
?
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For more info on the tinySA go to https://tinysa.org/wiki/