Re: How to apply frequency-dependent Antenna Factor
On Fri, Apr 25, 2025 at 12:13 AM, Mihai wrote:
Is this useful and/or correct?
If so, it means that a measurement in dBuV can be used directly in a formula with AF (in dB/m) and formula is an addition, not a subtraction
? ?The technote is correct.? The antenna factor is added to the measured level to convert from dBuV to dBuV/m or V to V/m.
?
Assuming LNA is disabled in TinySA, preamp gain is 0 dB?
?
? ?Preamplifier gain refers to an external preamplifier.? The LNA is internal to the TinySA and its gain is automatically corrected for, so it is not a factor in the formula. Most likely you will need to enable the LNA or use an external preamplifier to lower your noise floor below whatever regulatory limit you are using.
? ?To correct for all factors in the above formula, create a compound table that includes antenna factor, cable loss and external preamplifier gain.
I one wants to convert from dBuV/m to V/m, there are formulas:
? ?No need to convert. Choose LEVEL:UNIT:Vrms and enter your compound table for the TinySA to display measured levels in V/m. Choose LEVEL:UNIT:dBuV and enter your compound table to display measured levels in dBuV/m instead.
?
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Re: How to apply frequency-dependent Antenna Factor
Is this useful and/or correct?
If so, it means that a measurement in dBuV can be used directly in a formula with AF (in dB/m) and formula is an addition, not a subtraction
Assuming LNA is disabled in TinySA, preamp gain is 0 dB?
?
?
?
I one wants to convert from dBuV/m to V/m, there are formulas:
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Re: How to apply frequency-dependent Antenna Factor
Have any of you managed to use the TABLE TRACE with AF values?
I have my antenna's AF table/graph, but the unit is dB/m (Attenuation Coefficient)
dB/m (meter), not like dBm (decibels per milliwatt)
?
I see that TABLE TRACE expects a table of fixed measurements (with linear interpolation) in the selected unit of measurement (under LEVEL menu) and shows a curve
I believe that the SUBTRACT option is useful if TABLE TRACE is computed for the same unit of measurement...
Is it ok to fill the TABLE TRACE with dB/m values as if they are in dBm? It seems strange to me...
What are the formulas to go from signal power (dBm) to electric field (V/m) or power density (W/m2), including the AF values?
Please help!
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#tinysa #ultra Leveling TinySA Ultra with damaged LNA
#tinysa
#ultra
I?damaged?my?LNA,?and?now?can't?finish?leveling?process.?Is?there?any
way?to?bypass?LNA-related?stuff,?while?i?am?waiting?for?IC's?to?arrive?
Maybe?desoldering?it?and?bypassing?would?be?benificial?
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On Thu, Apr 24, 2025 at 12:11 AM, R. Maris wrote:
Suggested addition (when the suggestion is right): switch off LNA before, because the attenuator is not active when LNA is selected.
Done
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to
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Please add something to the following sentence in the fault finding page:
> If all above tests are OK, set the internal attenuation to 2, 4, 8 and 16 dB (see picture below). Suggested addition (when the suggestion is right): switch off LNA before, because the attenuator is not active when LNA is selected.
BTW: in my case, only the LNA was defective. Unsoldering such an IC is very easy using two soldering irons.
On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 14:59:02 +0100, R. Maris via groups.io <spin.in.het@...> wrote:
Yesterday I have executed the steps on this page. The hint regarding the 0 Hz vertical line is especially helpful. In my case, this vertical line is present, and as such, no complex repair is to being expected. The attenuation function is okay. LNA is clearly defect and because the test signal shows only -55 dBm on the spectrum, the switch should be defective, too. Thus I'd have to replace the switch and the LNA, not the attenuator.
Section Fault finding with oscilloscope: I don't find L1 and L7 (HW 0.4.5.1).
BTW: I now believe what "LOW OUTPUT" on top of the screen means: the bottom connector, not something like low level voltage.
In general I se need to implement any changes to this page.
Rob
On Wed, 26 Feb 2025 13:47:28 +0100, Erik Kaashoek via groups.io <erik@...> wrote:
I've added a page to the wiki describing some steps for manual fault finding.
Could some of the users that have (had) problems with their HW have a look at this page and check if it helps them locating the probable faulty component(s)
?
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to
|
Re: TinySA Ultra doesn't go to menu pressing jog
Hi,
problem solved cleaning the flat cable from screen to PCB and
moving battery back to right side, in order it doesn't touch the
flat cable when closing the box.
I hope it will work for years.
Bye,
Maurizio
?
Il 21/04/2025 18:18, Maurizio ha
scritto:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I updated firmware to latest release today and everything was
fine.
I was in config menu and I connected with the supplied cable
RF and CAL connectors, to perform a selftest.
As soon as I did it the yellow trace disappeared and pressing
the jog is doing nothing: no menu on the right
?
I am able to put system in DFU and tried to program again
formware 3-4 times. Everything seems ok but as soon as I switch
on TinySA Ultra as usual, non measure line is displayed and
pressing or sliding jog does nothing.
?
I opened the case and plugged off the battery but no way.
?
Any other suggestion?
?
Many thanks,
?
?
Maurizio I2NOY
?
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TinySA Ultra doesn't go to menu pressing jog
I updated firmware to latest release today and everything was fine.
I was in config menu and I connected with the supplied cable RF and CAL connectors, to perform a selftest.
As soon as I did it the yellow trace disappeared and pressing the jog is doing nothing: no menu on the right
?
I am able to put system in DFU and tried to program again formware 3-4 times. Everything seems ok but as soon as I switch on TinySA Ultra as usual, non measure line is displayed and pressing or sliding jog does nothing.
?
I opened the case and plugged off the battery but no way.
?
Any other suggestion?
?
Many thanks,
?
?
Maurizio I2NOY
?
|
Hi everyone and thanks for all your suggestions and contributions.
Sadly NOT the battery as I have a strict regime of checking the LiPo's in all my 'gadgets' there are so many..lol!
RF Explorers, Nano VNA's, RF-8000, plus many handy-talkies...phew.
I took another look at the TinySA's flexi-pcb connector and whilst there didn't seem any sideways 'play' in the mating of the ribbon cable, after several attempts (clamping with a left side bias and then a right side bias) I have managed
to get the beast to come back to life.
So as Erik and others have suggested my device may have a problem with the flexi-pcb connector alignment, though there is nothing obvious! (even under my SMT microscope!)
I have ascertained that my instrument was supplied by Zeenko (as recommended by Erik) and I am now in contact with my UK supplier to resolve this issue.
I have no idea how many genuine Tiny SA's have been sold around the world and guess I have just been unlucky in getting one that has developed such a weird fault?
Thanks once again everyone, it's great to have such a helpful resource :-)
Happy Easter everyone.....
Dave
?
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I recall having seen this before on this list. I have several tools besides three tinySAs that use similar types of cable so I was taking notes. If those things were made with a tightly restricted fit they would easily be damaged disassembling and reassembling if we could do it at all.
Onward and upward.
73,
Bill ?KU8H?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Apr 20, 2025, at 9:06?AM, Dave B via groups.io <davebullockmbe@...> wrote:
? Hi everyone and thanks for all your suggestions and contributions.
Sadly NOT the battery as I have a strict regime of checking the LiPo's in all my 'gadgets' there are so many..lol!
RF Explorers, Nano VNA's, RF-8000, plus many handy-talkies...phew.
I took another look at the TinySA's flexi-pcb connector and whilst there didn't seem any sideways 'play' in the mating of the ribbon cable, after several attempts (clamping with a left side bias and then a right side bias) I have managed
to get the beast to come back to life.
So as Erik and others have suggested my device may have a problem with the flexi-pcb connector alignment, though there is nothing obvious! (even under my SMT microscope!)
I have ascertained that my instrument was supplied by Zeenko (as recommended by Erik) and I am now in contact with my UK supplier to resolve this issue.
I have no idea how many genuine Tiny SA's have been sold around the world and guess I have just been unlucky in getting one that has developed such a weird fault?
Thanks once again everyone, it's great to have such a helpful resource :-)
Happy Easter everyone.....
Dave
?
|
Greetings :)
?
My device had exactly the same cable as the source of the problem, see the latest pictures on this link ...
?
?
Sincerely,
g.
?
|
Hi everyone and thanks for all your suggestions and contributions.
Sadly NOT the battery as I have a strict regime of checking the LiPo's in all my 'gadgets' there are so many..lol!
RF Explorers, Nano VNA's, RF-8000, plus many handy-talkies...phew.
I took another look at the TinySA's flexi-pcb connector and whilst there didn't seem any sideways 'play' in the mating of the ribbon cable, after several attempts (clamping with a left side bias and then a right side bias) I have managed
to get the beast to come back to life.
So as Erik and others have suggested my device may have a problem with the flexi-pcb connector alignment, though there is nothing obvious! (even under my SMT microscope!)
I have ascertained that my instrument was supplied by Zeenko (as recommended by Erik) and I am now in contact with my UK supplier to resolve this issue.
I have no idea how many genuine Tiny SA's have been sold around the world and guess I have just been unlucky in getting one that has developed such a weird fault?
Thanks once again everyone, it's great to have such a helpful resource :-)
Happy Easter everyone.....
Dave
?
|
Check the condition of the battery. Yes, lithium batteries have a long shelf life. But there are other considerations. When connected in a device there may be a very small but non-zero current drain that will eventually discharge the battery. This could be caused by the charging circuit in the device or even the protection board attached to the battery. Lithium batteries do not like deep discharge. It will damage them. If stored for an extended period the device should be periodically maintenance charged. On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 00:52:24 -0700 "Dave B via groups.io" <davebullockmbe@...> wrote: My TinySA ULTRA has probably only 25hours running time in the last year and the rest of the time being stored in t's protective sleeve and in its original box. -- 73 -Jim NU0C
|
Dave
Did you read my earlier reply?
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to
|
Jim,
You might check with R&L in Ohio to see if they can get one for you.
I got my 407 from them.
Good luck - Bob W8RMV
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"But nevertheless the instrument shouldn't be too susceptible to component defects or whatsoever."
If it is not what it states it is, I feel cheated. However there are warranty laws and they are there for a reason. I don't have any doubts that whatever the issue is, it will be solved in the future but for reasons of profit margins and other costs it is not feasible to replace every product already made especially for a small business. If you buy expensive stuff and it does this, they deserve to be out of business if they don't take responsibility. That is why they cost so much. That is why a simple screw can cost you more than a whole motorcycle. If that screw fails you are as well, because the whole plane is disintegrating at those speeds.
In general I agree with you, Igor.
Regarding scopes, there is (for me) no doubt that you get real quality only if your budget isn't tight. I still possess the successor of your MegaZoom II scope (a MegaZoom III), bought 2014 as used instrument at around 1.500 € (54641D). It lacks colour and USB, but MegaZoom is fantastic (as a user experience - e.g. also does it on stopped traces), but the robustness and quality are equally well superb. Not to forget the true analog-like display representation (see attached example image, SMPS waveform over full AC mains time slice). Having said that: I cannot believe that those cheap instruments out there can be trusted in some aspects, e.g. drift - or display representation quality. And yet I'm targeting again a used Keysight instrument in the 'colour' class (DSO5054 or 6054). Used these are offered for approx. 5.000 €, while new stuff from cheap vendors with that 500 MHz BW offers far more memory and higher GSPS while costing less than this over 10 years old Keysight equipment.
In the case of Dave B, well, my view is that you indeed may not expect high quality, but stuff that can be used quite well at low cost can make sense if the instrument is used only sporadically or as an accompaniment to other instruments, and if you accept e.g. accuracy drawbacks. But nevertheless the instrument shouldn't be too susceptible to component defects or whatsoever.
Rob
On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 10:42:37 +0200, Igor Feher via <igor.feher= [email protected]> wrote: I'm sorry to hear you had bad luck. I can give you my perspective, if you care, but can't offer any real help, it is beyond me.
My boss ordered me a signal generator for $80. At the same time they offered me a 15+ year old signal generator that costs over $5000 cheap, with scratches, well used. I declined it because it is too expensive. Chinese one does its job but as I generated sparks about 0.5 to 1.5 MV everything around the spark was glitching, even CPU controlled power supply a laboratory equipment US made, it however did recover after every glitch. 54602B HP scope (I assume you are all familiar with the series) however had no issues and they are on top of each other. In other words I expect a cheap one to be cheap. Lab equipment
costs as much as a house.?
As I worked in a factory as a developer and research engineer at the same company, I can tell you how many stupid things can go wrong . For example some dumb worker leaves fingerprints on a PCB (I also did that once, but while investigating an issue that was already there so only one board was ruined), factory delivered PCBs with dust, engineers that don't RTFM, component specifications change slightly between batches. There is a lot you can only learn from past mistakes so testing lab stuff takes ages and therefore costs a fortune.
Interesting to read everyone's comments regarding your purchasing quandary.
Just to add my "two penny worth",
I have a TinySA ULTRA that was purchased just over 1 year ago from the UK official distributor and cost ?159 and I expected it to be the 'genuine' article.
I bought it to check that my CMT2110 micro transmitter design's output filter was supressing RF spurii to the required levels. (which it was).
This week I started to use it to align a Local Oscillator multiplier strip when the screen froze.
My TinySA ULTRA has probably only 25hours running time in the last year and the rest of the time being stored in t's protective sleeve and in its original box.?
It still looks like 'brand new' and yet appears to have irrecoverably failed.
?It's clearly a known issue as it's right at the top of the Wiki fault finding page
However it's a "try this or try that" response NOT actually a description of the exact engineering issue or how to permanently fix it!
So...
Whether you go for Aliexpress or the 3x more expensive 'Genuine' distributor, you cannot be guaranteed that your purchase will last any longer :-(
So now I share your quandary.........
Dave
?
|
HI Rob/Igor,
Well yes I would prefer to have an HP/Agilent instrument and understand the possible reliability issues with way cheaper alternatives.
However my point is (as Rob points out at the end) one would hope that even a cheap device (and remember I did opt to buy the 'genuine' one) should last for longer than <30Hrs.
It's weird that it has been so accurate and reliable (meticulously checked against HP test gear) and suddenly died with no warning.
The main functions of the device are clearly running as the processor is generating the graticule and text around the periphery of the screen, why is the data being prevented from appearing?
Everyone talks about 'jiggling' the LCD ribbon cable without describing why this fixes it or how. (or not!)
The TinySA ULTRA is just so convenient to quickly connect up for a quick check it beats dragging an HP monster out from under the bench...lol!
Dave
?
|
In general I agree with you, Igor.
Regarding scopes, there is (for me) no doubt that you get real quality only if your budget isn't tight. I still possess the successor of your MegaZoom II scope (a MegaZoom III), bought 2014 as used instrument at around 1.500 € (54641D). It lacks colour and USB, but MegaZoom is fantastic (as a user experience - e.g. also does it on stopped traces), but the robustness and quality are equally well superb. Not to forget the true analog-like display representation (see attached example image, SMPS waveform over full AC mains time slice). Having said that: I cannot believe that those cheap instruments out there can be trusted in some aspects, e.g. drift - or display representation quality. And yet I'm targeting again a used Keysight instrument in the 'colour' class (DSO5054 or 6054). Used these are offered for approx. 5.000 €, while new stuff from cheap vendors with that 500 MHz BW offers far more memory and higher GSPS while costing less than this over 10 years old Keysight equipment.
In the case of Dave B, well, my view is that you indeed may not expect high quality, but stuff that can be used quite well at low cost can make sense if the instrument is used only sporadically or as an accompaniment to other instruments, and if you accept e.g. accuracy drawbacks. But nevertheless the instrument shouldn't be too susceptible to component defects or whatsoever.
Rob
On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 10:42:37 +0200, Igor Feher via groups.io <igor.feher@...> wrote:
I'm sorry to hear you had bad luck. I can give you my perspective, if you care, but can't offer any real help, it is beyond me.
My boss ordered me a signal generator for $80. At the same time they offered me a 15+ year old signal generator that costs over $5000 cheap, with scratches, well used. I declined it because it is too expensive. Chinese one does its job but as I generated sparks about 0.5 to 1.5 MV everything around the spark was glitching, even CPU controlled power supply a laboratory equipment US made, it however did recover after every glitch. 54602B HP scope (I assume you are all familiar with the series) however had no issues and they are on top of each other. In other words I expect a cheap one to be cheap. Lab equipment
costs as much as a house.?
As I worked in a factory as a developer and research engineer at the same company, I can tell you how many stupid things can go wrong . For example some dumb worker leaves fingerprints on a PCB (I also did that once, but while investigating an issue that was already there so only one board was ruined), factory delivered PCBs with dust, engineers that don't RTFM, component specifications change slightly between batches. There is a lot you can only learn from past mistakes so testing lab stuff takes ages and therefore costs a fortune.
Interesting to read everyone's comments regarding your purchasing quandary.
Just to add my "two penny worth",
I have a TinySA ULTRA that was purchased just over 1 year ago from the UK official distributor and cost ?159 and I expected it to be the 'genuine' article.
I bought it to check that my CMT2110 micro transmitter design's output filter was supressing RF spurii to the required levels. (which it was).
This week I started to use it to align a Local Oscillator multiplier strip when the screen froze.
My TinySA ULTRA has probably only 25hours running time in the last year and the rest of the time being stored in t's protective sleeve and in its original box.?
It still looks like 'brand new' and yet appears to have irrecoverably failed.
?It's clearly a known issue as it's right at the top of the Wiki fault finding page
However it's a "try this or try that" response NOT actually a description of the exact engineering issue or how to permanently fix it!
So...
Whether you go for Aliexpress or the 3x more expensive 'Genuine' distributor, you cannot be guaranteed that your purchase will last any longer :-(
So now I share your quandary.........
Dave
?
|
I'm sorry to hear you had bad luck. I can give you my perspective, if you care, but can't offer any real help, it is beyond me.
My boss ordered me a signal generator for $80. At the same time they offered me a 15+ year old signal generator that costs over $5000 cheap, with scratches, well used. I declined it because it is too expensive. Chinese one does its job but as I generated sparks about 0.5 to 1.5 MV everything around the spark was glitching, even CPU controlled power supply a laboratory equipment US made, it however did recover after every glitch. 54602B HP scope (I assume you are all familiar with the series) however had no issues and they are on top of each other. In other words I expect a cheap one to be cheap. Lab equipment
costs as much as a house.?
As I worked in a factory as a developer and research engineer at the same company, I can tell you how many stupid things can go wrong . For example some dumb worker leaves fingerprints on a PCB (I also did that once, but while investigating an issue that was already there so only one board was ruined), factory delivered PCBs with dust, engineers that don't RTFM, component specifications change slightly between batches. There is a lot you can only learn from past mistakes so testing lab stuff takes ages and therefore costs a fortune.
Interesting to read everyone's comments regarding your purchasing quandary.
Just to add my "two penny worth",
I have a TinySA ULTRA that was purchased just over 1 year ago from the UK official distributor and cost ?159 and I expected it to be the 'genuine' article.
I bought it to check that my CMT2110 micro transmitter design's output filter was supressing RF spurii to the required levels. (which it was).
This week I started to use it to align a Local Oscillator multiplier strip when the screen froze.
My TinySA ULTRA has probably only 25hours running time in the last year and the rest of the time being stored in t's protective sleeve and in its original box.?
It still looks like 'brand new' and yet appears to have irrecoverably failed.
?It's clearly a known issue as it's right at the top of the Wiki fault finding page
However it's a "try this or try that" response NOT actually a description of the exact engineering issue or how to permanently fix it!
So...
Whether you go for Aliexpress or the 3x more expensive 'Genuine' distributor, you cannot be guaranteed that your purchase will last any longer :-(
So now I share your quandary.........
Dave
?
|
Re: Tiny SA Ultra - Has my unit frozen for the last time?
Dave
Can you make a close up photo of the LCD cable and the LCD connector and post it here.
Maybe the spacing of the LCD cable and the LCD cable connector do not match perfectly.
If this is the case I suggest you contact your supplier to get this resolved
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to
|
Maurizio
Gerd
Jim Shorney
Bob W8RMV
