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Re: A step at 3GHz?

 

On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 01:13 PM, Leif M wrote:
When I was (playing) testing with my Nose source noise source and TinySA, everything was fine at lower frequencies, but when the max frequency was 5GHz, there was a 10-20dB step at 3GHz. I don't think noise source does that,? but I wouldn't think TinySA would do that either.
? ?I hope you read the page on limitations of enabling the Ultra mode and measuring wideband or scanning signals.? The step at 3GHz is normal for the noise source you are using.

? ?With a noise source, the Ultra mode mirror and spur elimination algorithms are weak as the method used to select the correct frequency, instead of a mirror, starts to break down.
?
? ? The new Ultra+ ZS-407 may handle the 3GHz step better.? Hopefully someone who has the ZS-407 can provide test data.
?
Herb
?


Re: A step at 3GHz?

 

Hi Leif, THX for the plots. As a comparison on my ULTRA, I used a ViewTEQ 5-1000MHz noise generator with an in-line 10dB pad and obtained the following plots at 10MHz - 3GHz.? NOTE: This is a calibrated CATV 75 ohm generator, but works fine on 50 oms with a very small dB penalty which in a measurement such as this (or a filter response, is inconsequential). FIG 1 is a dual plot of the Ultra noise floor (green trace) vs the noise generator (red trace). NOTE the response relationship between? the two traces. Response of the 1GHz rated unit is actually out to about 1.352GHz before the rolloff.?

FIG 2 is very interesting and might answer the 5GHz noise plot you are looking at. I increased the frequency set-up to what you used 10MHz-5GHz and low and behold, the noise trace looks very similar to what you are looking at with the "step" at 3GHz, and the following? trace replicating? the lower frequency portion. Could it be that the frequency response of the noise generator is actually lower than 1.5GHz or so? Interesting as to why this might happen. We can assume the ULTRA is at least as flat as the baseline noise shows us, so is it a function of the noise generator? Interesting question which begs more investigation (on another analyzer non ULTRA).

AS to the pulse shown with marker 1 @ 2.43GHz, this is direct pickup from my router wifi in close proximity to the analyzer.?

FIG 1. 10MHz-3GHz

?


FIG 2. 10MHz-5GHz


Hope this might help.......Good Luck!!

Ted (KD7AQO)

-----------------------------------------

From: "Leif M via groups.io"
To: [email protected]
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday January 1 2025 2:39:46PM
Subject: Re: [tinysa] A step at 3GHz?

Sure, here it comes, all? two of them. Could a Wlan leak here, I didn't see the 2.4GHz peak? at first when my PC was off. (Clock on my SA is off.)
INBOX241516bfe24a990deafc8cc8d62c58fb305
The step shows on? PC too.
INBOX241516a82b02a6949d38fb071c617d02302


Re: A Tracking generator with two TinySas?

 

I think you will find this interesting.
https://youtu.be/X4dGaC0QiEw?si=mNBxCAPxbtktOPJq


Re: A Tracking generator with two TinySas?

 

There is an article in the Jan/Feb 2025 issue ?of the QEX (which is available to ARRL members) on how to build a low-cost tracking generator for the tinySA.? Perhaps an ARRL member in this group might send you a copy.
?
?
?
?
Roger


A Tracking generator with two TinySas?

 

I was browsing TinySa examples from TinySas? where directly coupled to each other.? May I ask, does it really work and can I make one TSA to output the same frequency other is measuring.
I am not rushing to buy a second TinySA, but this is interesting.


Re: A step at 3GHz?

 

The noise source is supposed to work at 12V,? but it runs very hot even at 10V. This is at 12V. I don't know how, but the problem may be at the source/Nose.
?
?


Re: A step at 3GHz?

 

Sure, here it comes, all? two of them. Could a Wlan leak here, I didn't see the 2.4GHz peak? at first when my PC was off. (Clock on my SA is off.)
The step shows on? PC too.


Re: A step at 3GHz?

 

Hi Leif, Think we could get a screen shot of the "step" ?

-----------------------------------------

From: "Leif M via groups.io"
To: [email protected]
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday January 1 2025 1:13:29PM
Subject: [tinysa] A step at 3GHz?

When I was (playing) testing with my Nose source noise source and TinySA, everything was fine at lower frequencies, but when the max frequency was 5GHz, there was a 10-20dB step at 3GHz. I don't think noise source does that,? but I wouldn't think TinySA would do that either. I ran calibration after this and as always it passed. Should TinySA Ultra be calibrated before use?
Yes, in the noise source PCB, there is a text NOSE SOURCE.
Bg7tbl 2016-03-06
By the way,? the noise source runs very hot at 12V. Amplifiers? in it may do? something extra.
?
?
?


Re: A step at 3GHz?

 

I? used? a 20dB attenuator between the noise source? and TinySa.


A step at 3GHz?

 

When I was (playing) testing with my Nose source noise source and TinySA, everything was fine at lower frequencies, but when the max frequency was 5GHz, there was a 10-20dB step at 3GHz. I don't think noise source does that,? but I wouldn't think TinySA would do that either. I ran calibration after this and as always it passed. Should TinySA Ultra be calibrated before use?
Yes, in the noise source PCB, there is a text NOSE SOURCE.
Bg7tbl 2016-03-06
By the way,? the noise source runs very hot at 12V. Amplifiers? in it may do? something extra.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/_nose-source-bg7tbl-2016-03-06_/
?
?
?


Re: Using Tiny SA- App v1.1.20.1. I – Can't change to match 2.4 GHz for the Ultra. PS: bonus question: is this the best software to use to upgrade the firmware?

 

Robert, glad you got it fixed.?

Hope you have a Happy and Productive 2025!!!

Best Regards.....Ted (KD7AQO)

-----------------------------------------

From: "Robert K3RRR"
To: [email protected]
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday January 1 2025 9:42:38AM
Subject: Re: [tinysa] Using Tiny SA- App v1.1.20.1. I – Can't change to match 2.4 GHz for the Ultra. PS: bonus question: is this the best software to use to upgrade the firmware?

"We don't need any stinkin' driver!"
?
INBOX241465bfe24a990deafc8cc8d62c58fb305
?
Bravo, Ted et al!
?
I did indeed have BOOTLOADER as a device under "Other Devices." Like a dumbass,
?
I had believed that since Windows 11 recognized the comport when plugging in the Tiny SA, all was right with the world since the Tiny SA App software would work.
?
Fixing this one problem by downloading the correct SA driver solved both my problems: updating the firmware AND having the app work correctly for the ultra frequencies.
?
Many, many, many thanks to ALL of you who made suggestions… ALL of YOU are appreciated!
?
Happy New Year, Guys
?
Robert
--
?-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
73 de Robert ? K3RRR
X/(Twitter) @K3TripleR
YouTube.com/K3RRR
Website: ?K3RRR.com
-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-. ??


Re: Using Tiny SA- App v1.1.20.1. I – Can't change to match 2.4 GHz for the Ultra. PS: bonus question: is this the best software to use to upgrade the firmware?

 

"We don't need any stinkin' driver!"
?
?
Bravo, Ted et al!
?
I did indeed have BOOTLOADER as a device under "Other Devices." Like a dumbass,
?
I had believed that since Windows 11 recognized the comport when plugging in the Tiny SA, all was right with the world since the Tiny SA App software would work.
?
Fixing this one problem by downloading the correct SA driver solved both my problems: updating the firmware AND having the app work correctly for the ultra frequencies.
?
Many, many, many thanks to ALL of you who made suggestions… ALL of YOU are appreciated!
?
Happy New Year, Guys
?
Robert
--
?-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
73 de Robert ? K3RRR
X/(Twitter) @K3TripleR
YouTube.com/K3RRR
Website: ?K3RRR.com
-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-. ??


Re: Using Tiny SA- App v1.1.20.1. I – Can't change to match 2.4 GHz for the Ultra. PS: bonus question: is this the best software to use to upgrade the firmware?

 

If you are using a windows computer (especially WIN 11), this might be the issue.

1) If you can connect the device to the USB port (hear the "ding"), Go into Control Panel: Hardware: Device Manager - PORTS (Com & LPT) and observe one of the entries as - STM Microelectronics Virtual COM Port (COM*) This is the USB connection and should allow you to connect to the Tiny SA -App. Check for the correct port by disconnecting the Tiny SA and see if the COM entry goes away and comes back when you reconnect.

If you are connected to the Tiny SA App, and select the FW update (double arrow heads) and it tells you? " No Valid DFU Device found!" after you do a Jog Wheel press while turning the unit on, without changing anything, go back to the Device Manager screen, cursor down to " Universal Serial Bus Controllers, and look for a? "BOOTLOADER entry", if you find one, that is your problem. Verify that it is the right one, as there might be more than one, by turning off the SA and observe the entry go away. Turn it back on while holding the jog wheel down and observe the entry comes back.

Now you need to change the driver:

1) Right click on the BOOTLOADER entry and select "Update Driver", this will take you to the update screen. 2) Select: "Browse My Computer for Driver Software", then in the selections that come up - "Let Me Pick From a List of Device Drivers on My Computer". This should bring up several drivers. The one you want to select would be "STM Device in DFU Mode". Click it.

You should get a "Driver Successfully Updated" flag and in the Device Manager observe the "BOOTLOADER" driver change to "STM Device in DFU Mode". You should now be able to update the FW with the Tiny SA-App. NOTE: When you change the driver with the SA connected, the computer registers the correct driver to that particular unit. If you hook up to a different computer, or another unit, you'll probably have to go through the driver change again.

Also: If when you go into the driver selection, you do not have a "STM Device in DFU Mode' selection, the proper driver for the Tiny SA is not installed.?

Not only does this solve problems on the Tiny SA it also does the same for the NanoVNA's.?

Good Luck!!!

Ted (KD7AQO)


-----------------------------------------

From: "Robert K3RRR"
To: [email protected]
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday December 31 2024 4:16:47PM
Subject: Re: [tinysa] Using Tiny SA- App v1.1.20.1. I – Can't change to match 2.4 GHz for the Ultra. PS: bonus question: is this the best software to use to upgrade the firmware?

Hi David,
Thanks for the recommendation I am trying to use your suggestion of using the app but having a problem with "No valid DFU device found."?
?
INBOX241389bfe24a990deafc8cc8d62c58fb305
?
PROBLEMS UPDATING FIRMWARE ON TINY SA ULTRA
Powered device off, pushed down jog button all the way while powering on device. A black screen appeared as expected. Did not connect since device did not show up the list of com ports when device is powered on in this manner. COM port USB cable plugged in the entire time.
"No valid DFU device found."
What am I doing wrong???
?
--
?-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
73 de Robert ? K3RRR
X/(Twitter) @K3TripleR
YouTube.com/K3RRR
Website: ?K3RRR.com
-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-. ??


Re: Using Tiny SA- App v1.1.20.1. I – Can't change to match 2.4 GHz for the Ultra. PS: bonus question: is this the best software to use to upgrade the firmware?

 

After putting the tinySA in DFU mode, you need to use the small icon with two up-arrows to open the firmware update window.
Then see if the DFU device shows up in the drop-down list in that window.
If it does not show up, make sure your cable is really a data cable, and then make sure you have the correct driver installed.
For driver instructions, see the instructions file in this folder:
(yes, it is for nanoVNA, but tinySA uses the same driver for tinySA-app as is used in nanovna-app).


Re: Using Tiny SA- App v1.1.20.1. I – Can't change to match 2.4 GHz for the Ultra. PS: bonus question: is this the best software to use to upgrade the firmware?

 

Hi David,
Thanks for the recommendation I am trying to use your suggestion of using the app but having a problem with "No valid DFU device found."?
?
?
PROBLEMS UPDATING FIRMWARE ON TINY SA ULTRA
Powered device off, pushed down jog button all the way while powering on device. A black screen appeared as expected. Did not connect since device did not show up the list of com ports when device is powered on in this manner. COM port USB cable plugged in the entire time.
"No valid DFU device found."
What am I doing wrong???
?
--
?-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
73 de Robert ? K3RRR
X/(Twitter) @K3TripleR
YouTube.com/K3RRR
Website: ?K3RRR.com
-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-. ??


Re: What to do when a selftest fails

 

Hi everyone,

I disassembled the device and successfully replaced U22 with AS179-92LF.
My device now passes all self-tests and calibration.

While disassembling, I broke the 4-pin battery connector (2 pins +, 2 pins -).
I removed the remnants of the connector with hot air and soldered the wires directly onto the pads.

Thanks to everyone, and good luck troubleshooting.?

?

?

?
?
?
?


Re: Using Tiny SA- App v1.1.20.1. I – Can't change to match 2.4 GHz for the Ultra. PS: bonus question: is this the best software to use to upgrade the firmware?

 

On 30/12/2024 20:34, Robert K3RRR via groups.io wrote:
What is currently the best way to upgrade the firmware? DFUseDemo software, or
the -app?
Robert,

Under Windows-10 I've been using the TinySA-app v.1.1.20.1 without any problems.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web:
Email: davidtaylor@...
BlueSky: @gm8arv.bsky.social, Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: How to test and measure THD with Ultra?

 

THD calculates the THD of the fundamental using the harmonics as visible in the scan.
There seem to be no harmonics visible in your scan
--
Designer of the tinySA
For more info go to


How to test and measure THD with Ultra?

 

When I study the ultra with version 187, and use measure->more->THD, whatever I move the marker, the THD always 0, can someone give me some suggestions?


Re: Using Tiny SA- App v1.1.20.1. I – Can't change to match 2.4 GHz for the Ultra. PS: bonus question: is this the best software to use to upgrade the firmware?

 

Yes and ultra mode is working great on the device itself… Just not working on the app…
--
?-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-.
73 de Robert ? K3RRR
X/(Twitter) @K3TripleR
YouTube.com/K3RRR
Website: ?K3RRR.com
-.- ...-- .-. .-. .-. ??